Ranged Trolls

[parksd70]

I'm thinking about getting into Trolls, and am sort of looking for the possibility for a ranged army (don't want to play Cygnar).

So, my questions is, how feesible is a Troll ranged force? I'm thinking maybe Doomy. I'm think something along these lines:

Hoarluk Doomshaper
Troll Impaler
Troll Impaler
Pyre Troll
Slag Troll
Kriel Warriors
Krielstone Bearer and Stone Scribes
Kriel Warrior Standard Bearer and Piper
Fell Caller
Thumper Crew
Thumper Crew

Would this just be crazy and fail miserably, or would it maybe work okay? My reason for Doomy is pretty much his feat and the fact that I play v. a lot of upkeeps. Could this work well?

In general, have ranged lists with Trolls proven worthwhile? I really like the look of Trolls, and for some reason can't stand most Warmachine anymore. However, I'm also stuck playing almost exclusively against WM, and as of right now we (Hordes) are at, IMO, a considerable disadvantage against WM.

Thoughts?

[Ravir]

I play with a rangy list once in a while. It completely boned an opponent in one game because of deep water preventing him from crossing no-man's land of fire, spears, and bullets. If there are enemy solos to deal with, you might drop the Slag Troll or one Impaler for Bushwhackers (since they don't suck any more) but I've found that you usually want to have something to fall back on in melee besides one troop unit. Try fitting a Blitzer in there. d3 ranged attacks that you can boost now, but still a pretty good beatstick if things get too close. The Thumpers are really good now, just remember about blocked LOS to targets so leave a gap unless you're shooting. As far as caster, Grim is supposed to be our "ranged caster", but I haven't tried him in MkII yet. Calandra also does good with her 7 fury pumping out the Far Strikes or re-rolls for criticals, and her feat is great for ranged attacks vs medium-defense enemies.

[bakaryu]

The Bushwhacker death star is pretty scary these days with their 14" range, especially combined with someone like Grim or Calandra. Under Calandra's feat, paired Bushwhackers with the aiming bonus are auto hitting DEF14 at POW12, which is enough to take out most trooper models in the game. Of course they can also be combined into two shots that auto hit DEF17 at POW15, which is enough to kill Caine on average dice, and with Fate Bound you can reroll a crappy damage roll just to make sure

I would try something along this line:

Calandra (6wp)
Blitzer (9-6=3)
Impaler (5)
Pyre (5)
10 Pyg Bushwhackers (8)
10 Pyg Burrowers (6)
Fell Caller (3)
Thumper (3)
Thumper (3)

That puts you at 36 points, leaving you with the ability to trim a few points if you want to get it down to 35 or 14 points if you want to push it up to 50.

[Mael]

Why has nobody mentioned Grimm?

-3DEF and -3SPD pretty much ensures you get two turns of awesome shooting once the enemy gets into your range.

[theummhmmguy]

Yeah Grims new feat is downright fantastic.

[Sevwall]

Well, Grim would almost certainly be better for the list, unless you are talking about some pretty narly upkeeps.

Remember, upkeeping damages you on feat turn, so you might not want to cast purify before you feat

[Zombied00d]

I do like the Troll shooty-ness that exists. The problem is overall, we're not shooty enough to make it viable.

Yes, against Hordes we're a pretty solid shooty list, because on average the highest ARM we're looking at vs. Hordes is around 17-18 (TB's under the Aura not included)

However, against WM we have a substantial drop off in damage output against hard targets.

With the exception of Madrakand CRA Bushwhackers, none of our ranged attacks are natively above POW 14, which means that we struggle against the higher ARM of WM jacks and casters camping focus.

Sure, an Impaler can chuck a spear 12 inches at pow 13, but if we want to up it to pow 16 we can only throw it 8"

Plus, very few of our buffs effect ranged attacks as well.

BUT!

We can play a very strong area denial game with our ranged attacks thanks to the Impaler's crit at the Thumper's auto slam. So for objective based games where only jacks and beasts can claim a point, we're a fairly solid ranged build, if somewhat janky.

[grim89]

With the exception of Madrakand CRA Bushwhackers, none of our ranged attacks are natively above POW 14, which means that we struggle against the higher ARM of WM jacks and casters camping focus.

dont forget the thumper! knocked a crusader back six inches last night, turning the whole choir into paste. oh how i love it!


edit: thhumper is actually 14 on the dot, my mistake. still love it

[Mael]

With all of this discussion I am keen to try the rules out. I think I might run some Grimm action tonight.

[Toothy]

Don't forget the Elder Scribe's STR aura increases Impaler damage rolls, too. Then they're 12" 14 POW.

[parksd70]

I definitely think I'm going to have to try Trolls. I was thinking both Doomys before, but did even see the potential in Grim. On his feat turn and one after, there's gonna be some bad stuff happening. It's almost like having 2 feats, one that helps you on your turn and hinders the enemy on their turn. I love it.

[Ravir]

I played Grim for the first time tonight vs Kromac. I lost, but due to me misjudging distance by about 1/2" and failing the last attack that would have taken his last 4 life points and won me the game. One of the better tools was a Thumper sitting behind a forest with Cross Country on it. Constantly slamming large beasts (and slamming Kromac on feat turn assassination attempt) while being essentially invulnerable to anything without Hunter. Alternating Cross Country between a farstriked Thumper and Impaler behind forest means 12" and 18" slam attacks that can't be sniped out by most ranged units.

[CerberusPuppy]

We can do shooty. I'd play Grim with Burrowers, Bushwackers, a couple Impalers, a Blitzer, something like that.

[The Happy Anarchist]

Remember, upkeeping damages you on feat turn, so you might not want to cast purify before you feat

I'm confused. If you mean upkeeping damages you, pDoomy's feat is certainly enemy models.
If you mean upkeeping damages enemy casters, then you would almost always still be better off purifying them because 2-3 focus per upkeep hurts much more than 1 focus per upkeep. The only reason not to is if you have pressing needs for the 3 fury.

[BalysTervaine]

I played the following 35pt list for a bit recently:

Grim
Blitzer
Impaler
Impaler
Bushwackers (10)
Burrowers (10)
Scattergunners (6)
Thumper

It does pretty well, and it's fun just because everyone shoots. There's plenty of things that stop this sort of list, since it doesn't fight very well in melee, but it's a lot of fun. I played it against a protectorate jack wall with no shooting choir, and it wasn't too much of a problem, because with far strike, you can move bushwackers sideways and shoot a few of them 18" to kill some of the chior from around the jacks, then he can't save all his jacks from you next turn.

[Robert Shepherd]

Last night I tried:

eMadrak
Blitzer
Impaler
Scattergunners (6)
Burrowers (10)
Thumper
Thumper
Fennblades (10)
Fell Caller

It's a solid list. Madrak can upkeep one of his spells and Far Shot both thumpers each turn, the feat turn is absolutely brutal (four thumper shots in one turn? twelve scatterguns? twenty slug guns? Madness!), and the fennblades make a solid melee brick with the fell caller backing them up. Plus, there are a few nice combos, like the fact that the scattergunners can spray the target Madrak is engaging for boosted POW 12s with no penalty involved. It's biggest weakness is the lack of really high power shots, but this is made up for by your ability to slam basically any hard target away at whim and focus on the squishies.

[Goris]

I'm confused. If you mean upkeeping damages you, pDoomy's feat is certainly enemy models.
If you mean upkeeping damages enemy casters, then you would almost always still be better off purifying them because 2-3 focus per upkeep hurts much more than 1 focus per upkeep. The only reason not to is if you have pressing needs for the 3 fury.

This is all sensationalism....or something like that...pDoomy's feat specifies enemy models...

[Mael]

This is all sensationalism....or something like that...pDoomy's feat specifies enemy models...

I think you misunderstand Goris. Let me see if I can rephrase

It's always better on the feat turn to purify and then force the enemy to recast their upkeep spells rather than just have them spend one focus for their upkeep spells. What hurts your enemy more? Not having upkeeps and recasting them or just using one focus to upkeep?

Now if you know you're opponent might be able to get out of your CTRL area or might otherwise just camp the focus, it's possible you could be canny and make him think "well, it is just 1d6..."

I had a great game with Doomy last night where I pushed into the enemy army and forced him to hold on to his focus instead of exploding his own brain. This allowed my dires a follow up turn of face smashing that won me the game!

[impaler27]

sweet list robet sheperd i have that list but instead of scattergunners i have a full unit of farrow's