Necessity Unites.....

[talquizar]

First off I would like to make my first post in this thread being. "Ya well I'm still going to ram my beasts and swords down everyone's A#$s even if they are puppies in bad hats and foam shaped into swords." I can win on strat alone. and they did not nerf my key strats so I'm good. personally my spray spam against troops never worked all that well for some reason. second did anyone see typhons stat pre last update? he didn't even have 30 health let alone speed 7 rat6. third i don't like the idea of MD because you try playing another warlock and you have some bizzar shock that you can't roll that other dice then you still kill things and see its not so bad without it. (still would like MD to be cost 2 though ^_^)

Now I seen Rhyas's name mentioned and would love to comment on that. 12 swordsmen, with weapon master, in your bum!! that's what is all about. and given the right setting (it happens more then you think) you can clear the table in her feet turn ^_^ If that is not enough let me tell you the time Rhyas killed a hole troop of pikemen on her own on there turn just because they missed all the attacks. still not convinced? she makes all warriors 1 speed and parry? not enough.. how about a mat 8 rat 6 beast you choose? not enough? how about the fact she can charge 12 threw everything on the board and kill the caster with 4 dice of death?

[Soul King]

you know, as someone mentioned in an earlier post, I think that I've finally gone through the five stages of death (according to the simpsons)

1. Denial: When I first read the changes thread, I clicked refresh, looked at other forums briefly for about 20 minutes, and was somewhat in denial
2.Anger-I kinda mixed this one with the next one, but I got really miffed, not so much at the changes but at people, so I apologize to Defenstrator, neutralyze, and blitzmonkey
3. Bargaining- I tried to talk people out of these changes, tried reasoning that there was a silver lining and that the changes were fairly minor
4. depression- I left for several hours, and was really down on the fact that my favorite faction, my first REAL (while I played Cryx for about 2 years, it never really counted, it never felt right) faction was at its lowest, darkest point. Then, as I like to go on tangents, thought about the ending of Will You Be There, and got really depressed. Watched fox and the hound, got really really depressed and then....
5.acceptance- I've accepted this change, I've accepted the fact that our stuff sucks, but now I'm ready to move on

[Defenstrator]

Sarcasm ... sensors... tingling......

Eh, it's not even worth it. This thread has merit unlike the terrible Positive Changes one.

So I already talked warlocks, how about some solo action?

Deathstalkers- Can't see through trees but oh well. That would have been the giant cherry that squished all the whipped cream. They're still solid at smoking single wound infantry. Definately something you want to take two of, but still solid.

Warchief- Feels on the lower end for 3 points considering some of his competition (Eiryss, Journeyman) but not bad. I don't know how much we'll take him though since with Warmongers at MAT 7 the to hit issue is gone. I suppose if you're expecting a particulary high DEF army he might come through. Warspears on the other hand love this guy.

Forsaken- Still good. Lost the boosting on the blight but now can make extra attacks. She can rip up other solos, hurt ligh warjacks/beasts and does a great job at fury mitigation. Still top notch.

Shepherd- Also still solid. The loss of wounds hurts, but being able to stay 3" away from the target beast really helps her survivability. This is my auto include Legion model.

Sorceress- I'm a bit if on her. Maybe in a flying circus army but other wise I tended to lose her rather quickly. Advancing 8" and spraying people seems like a great idea, but seemed to invariably get her killed. That might just be me, but still, I'd take her more for her free charge ability and treat everything else as a situational extra.

[alchahest]

man two models getting nerfed (fairly) does not destroy an entire faction. get over it you guys.

[paradox]

So let us unite and work together to make it happen. It is an uphill better, but nothing worth working for is easy. I think we can do it. I just hope I'm not the only one.

I think this is a great post. It's the right way to approach MK2 and I think alot of people feel exactly the same way as what I've quoted above.

[ricefrisbeetreats]

man two models getting nerfed (fairly) does not destroy an entire faction. get over it you guys.

Wasn't there 3? eLylyth?

I'm upset about Typhon getting changed up (speed-wise). But I'll still enjoy him.

Once I see some new stuff, I'll have some new tactica. Until then, I'll keep on doing what I was doing.

[Wreckoning]

Legion is the weakest? I don't think I agree, but that's your opinion and mine of course, and we are both entitled to that.

I do like the sentiment, nothing better to adapt to a change than to draw from a sense of community.

I don't see the value in making people think Legion is a broken faction again. Personally, I am going to enjoy not having people look at me like I stole their wallet when I put my Legion models on the table - maybe now we can just have fun and not worry about crap like things being broken.

S'funny really, I was all worried about Molik getting nerfed into oblivion and they nerf Typhon instead. You know what I felt? I felt relief for my Legion force since Typhon would not longer be an auto-include, but I felt anxiety about my skorne force since molik is like the proverbial elephant in the room when picking my list... wouldn't this game be a lot more fun if Neutralyze wouldn't be able to say "What's a [insert non-competitive unit here]"? Nothing against Neut, he's just saying it like it is.

I agree with the spirit of the thread, though, that of accepting what we have been given and persevering. Nothing wrong with that, regardless of differing opinions about the worth of what it is we have.

[zalabar]

Honestly? To rebel. To say step off. To make them have to do a MKIII. I don't consider Soles or DC to be friends of Legion players. And I want to re-enforce that. I want them to regret pissing us off. I want them to have to nerf us. I want to make their lives a living hell with a thread of complaints about how broken Legion is because good players like you break it. People ***** and moan about Legion being a negative play experience to play against. While I don't want there to be a ton of negative experiences, I still want people to fear playing us. Legion is my main and only serious faction. And I'll be damned if I will let the designers get away with this.


This is my inspiration. We still function. Necra, you want to know the concise answer? Why should you? So we can make them eat their words.

Well, I'm going to get me a Legion starter now...

[Necra-Chi]

Could someone explain the relevance of the picture to this topic?

[SnakeEyes]

Transformers: The Movie. Megatron is on verge of death from fight with Optimus Prime. Tells Scarscream that "He still functions" so he's not abandoned. Ultimately, Starscream kicks him off into deep space anyways. Then Unicron turns Megatron into Galvatron, a fully healed Megatron in a new form.

[blitzmonkey]

Snakeeyes summed it up, but basically it means that we take a beating and just come back stronger.

[KingofHearts]

That would make us Megatron leader of the bad guys?

[Yertle4]

That would make us Megatron leader of the bad guys?

That's a pretty sweet place to be.

[ValentineSmith]

The first step in adaptation is the survival of the fittest. That which is unfit must die so the fit can flourish in it's place..

I never did like powerplayers anyway. You know, the kind that insisted on playing a Minotaur with superstrength in AD&D...

Blitz, you have the Mercenary attitude, which I like, personally.

Whoever does not like this game is free to stop playing and/or design their own. If one can no longer win, or worse: not even find games enjoyable anymore, because one model lost a stat point here or there, they were powerplayers trying to compensate for something else in their life . If that one model/combination is what all that the game was about to them, I feel pity.

Conversely, my attitude is that if I cannot seem to get a model/ability/battle to work, then I am just not being creative enough. Starting out exclusively playing Mercenaries will teach one that attitude, I find .

Meanwhile, I have just ordered a few more Everblight models to expand my army to 35 points (a bit more, but I like to have options to switch things around), and I will be on these forums asking advice and sharing experience (the latter when I have more of it...)

Ever onward!

[Kalaris]

Transformers: The Movie. Megatron is on verge of death from fight with Optimus Prime. Tells Scarscream that "He still functions" so he's not abandoned. Ultimately, Starscream kicks him off into deep space anyways. Then Unicron turns Megatron into Galvatron, a fully healed Megatron in a new form.

We also get voiced by Lenord Nemoy now, and we get some new acutally effective minions, but in the end we're beaten by mechs made of scrap, a single shiney aoe used by a kid with absolutely no experience and some 80's hairmetal. -- Hey that IS a good analogy for what it feels like to play legion! (I'm joking really!)

Can we have a Blighted versions of the dino's next book?

OKAY now that I've walked away from the forums for a few hours, its not ALL bad, we just have to hang on till (October/November) until they complete our faction, I HAVE to believe that they changes they've made are because of interactions with new models.

[CallmeGene]

Hey, part of what frew me into this was elves mixed with dragons, beasts thatlook like crosses between dragons and insects, and in the case of fliers, dragons and sharks. If we got Blighted Dinobots... /nerdgasm

[PG_Stevo]

Blitz: Great thread, man. Really. I've been pretty bummed out about Legion for the past few days, and this helped me reach the oft-mentioned "Acceptance Stage" of grief.

I'm looking forward to cramming every bit of pain I can muster down the throats of my opponents, especially Skorne.

[Thunder_God]

I can't agree with the OP, sorry.

Legion is the weakest faction? Dunno, I'm not sure I'm buying that. Though I have a hard time pointing to weaker ones, but still.

Also, I'm kinda with Defenstrator, it's kinda funny that we do less and less as time goes by to support ranged, and we're the ranged faction. I mean, the reason we don't take infantry much is because the ranged support we did have left was basically all for beasts.

I make the following point often, I'm going to make it again. Back in the days of Primal, Thagrosh semi-brick was a common play-style, it accounted for a lot of what we did. It's still alive and kicking, is good with Warspears, Gatormen, the upcoming Thrullg, Typhon, Scythean... there are more reasons to play it now than when just Primal was around.
So you want to go melee, and give people something they don't expect from Legion, and give yourself a completely different playstyle? Go pThagrosh.

[Zazoo]

As a long time Legion player, I feel pretty much the same as Blitz.
Ive taken a lot of hits this year with all the nerfs my beloved legion has taken.
But I still win 90% of my games and people fear anything I put on the table because Ill MAKE it work if I have to.

[alchahest]

so what you're saying is that you win 90% of games, regardless of what you field because you play well?

because that's probably the best state any faction can be in.

[blitzmonkey]

so what you're saying is that you win 90% of games, regardless of what you field because you play well?

because that's probably the best state any faction can be in.

I think you are missing the point. I didn't start this thread to accommodate the super whiners or the super kool-aid drinkers....both of which we have an abundance of apparently. Regardless of whether he/she is winning 90% of his/her games (probably an arbitrary number used to signify a "majority"), he/she has the right attitude. Alchahest, you can aruge all you want that the faction is in a great state until you are blue in the face. On the flip-side, you can argue that all we have is sucktastic models. This gets us no where in the grander scheme of things. Whether you agree with Zazoo or not, what Zazoo is conveying is the attitude I was trying to get at. We will make it work for us and make our opponents fear us still.

[Neutralyze]

Blitz,

Are you going to come to our Detroit store wars event?

[blitzmonkey]

I really want to. The only thing preventing me is money. I recently just finished up my Master's and I am still doing the job hunting shuffle. If I do come, I should have some friends with me though. Why do you ask?

[alchahest]

Blitz - we as a faction should be in a state where we can win the majority of games by playing well. that's as much the players as it is the models. that's what I'm getting at. if everyone was playing like zazoo, there wouldn't be arguments about underpowered/whining. we'd just be playing and having a lot of fun with the challenge.

[blitzmonkey]

Blitz - we as a faction should be in a state where we can win the majority of games by playing well. that's as much the players as it is the models. that's what I'm getting at. if everyone was playing like zazoo, there wouldn't be arguments about underpowered/whining. we'd just be playing and having a lot of fun with the challenge.

I like this better. I read your post as antagonizing him for feeling remorse over the constant nerfs. There would still be arguments about underpowered/overpowered models in my opinion, but it would be more of a collaborative effort instead of a hostile environment.

[Kalaris]

I really feel that Legion requires us to be the best players we can be, seriously, I probably had to play our top player (cygnar) 20-30 times to pull a win out, because their faction is complete, and works well together, something ours does not, we have few things going for us movement shenanigans (speed), and close combat lethality, that's really it, By the end of my "training" I am so much better then most of the people who started at the same time with other factions cause I had to play harder, smarter, better to eek out narrow wins with Everblight, the problem is when you come against another player who's of equal skill level, it is very difficult to win, (and near impossible to win if they know legion's tricks.)

I'm not trying to be a downer, but the difficulty of playing legion should unite us, at least until they realize we've payed enough for MK1 .

We'll still win, but I wonder if our winning is due to enemy's being caught unaware of us, rather then wow we're awesome.

[Thunder_God]

Hmm. Dunno. If your enemies really know how to defend against Legion so you feel you have to play the attrition game, you're probably going to lose.

If someone tries hit and run on you, try to kill a few of their stuff without losing yours.
New players often get assassinated. But new players also often miscalculate the chances of pulling off assassinations. When you rely on assassinations, if the enemy is unskilled, it's easy, if the enemy is skilled, you really have to work hard.

Legion, still beating newbies around the bush.
Scythean, helping us play the mano-a-mano game.

[alchahest]

I think meta has a lot to do with that, kalaris. my meta knows legion tricks (they know sprays of destiny less so, of course, but it's no longer an issue). they play hard, and I play hard. it's a challenge for either side to win, as we know most of the tricks the other guy has, and it comes down to how well and how fast one can adapt to the other's plan changes. having a grand strategy is an excellent way to start a game, but adapting it to match the situation at any given point is what wins games, more so than powerful models, or knowing the enemy's tricks (though that does help with adapting). keep at it, we've got a lot more power than it may seem. I think it's good to unite and share tactics and share battle reports and keep legion well informed - and having a strong community helps that. I think, however, that playing from a mindset of "I'm going to lose, but maybe I'll get lucky" is not a good way to create victory scenarios. Be confident in your models and in your playing. if one model doesn't work with your playstyle, switch the model or switch the playstyle. create your victory conditions whatever the cost. we're the glass cannon faction. if we lose our entire army to deliver a caster kill and the win, it's absolutely okay and worthwhile.

[PG_Pszito]

With you all the way, blitz. Been rockin Legion since their box hit the shelves and have always favored the so-called 'weaker' casters not only for the challenge they present but to Ever-push (yeah, you like that one?) the envelope. Considering Legion has always played like a glass cannon it stands to reason it would only be effective in the hands of skilled players; one slip in your plan, one miscalculation, or even not preparing for the luck factor and you reaped the dire repercussions. I never felt Legion was 'broken' but i understand how it would feel playing against us with skilled players at the helm add in to the mix the number of situational/environmental rules we straight up ignored and possessed tech against. Any 'toolbox' players we picked up along the way is also systemic of proving the might of an army, or even unruly combos :RHYAS : COUGH : CHIEFTAN: COUGH : but never did i see a Legion player throwing down mkI Vayl or pThag that I didn't respect. My local playgroup was certainly ripe with eye-rolling, broken-claiming, sigh-laden, faction-haters but not once did I let them think otherwise for it, in fact, weakened their resolve and focus on the field. Terror or being an Abomination was not just a stat-lined ability on a model... anyway, back on track...

We can adapt. By we I mean those who want to. By adapt I mean pull with the punches so we can elbow them in the throat. Our previous core advantages have been stripped, our rules shifted, our models brow-beaten until some stats shaved off, and our community certainly hurt and feeling targeted (understandably) thus searching for 'answers' or 'solutions' to 'fix' our faction. I think the real dilemma is we haven't found the right questions yet nor hopped back in the saddle of being the most justifiably vilified faction as we had earned before (not that any other faction player would care to admit we earned). I have certainly complained here about some changes in the context of a nerf not making sense or the 'balance' of a model not being maintained as a result of a change but never did I have an illusion that there very well may have been a logical, well calculated reason nor did I expect retro-active changes based solely on complaints (I just wanted to know why the changes were made, what influenced it).

We still are one of the fastest, most tech-savvy, sliest factions in the game with worlds of options to us. As it's been said by many other experienced players in the Legion faction boards, we're still waiting to see where the chips have fallen for us by the powers that be (and let us thank them for being the proverbial punching bag to our wishlisting, complaining, and critical analysis!!! THANK YOU!). So let's do what we do best; wait, plan, saddle up, and conquer!!!

Cheers.

Transformers: The Movie. Megatron is on verge of death from fight with Optimus Prime. Tells Scarscream that "He still functions" so he's not abandoned. Ultimately, Starscream kicks him off into deep space anyways. Then Unicron turns Megatron into Galvatron, a fully healed Megatron in a new form.

And also... so you're saying we need to find our Unicron? maybe we should just get an Orson Welles-like motivational speaker up in here...

[Beckman]

I've played both Trolls and Legion since primal... and I know what you guys mean about MAKING it work. I don't think Legion is at a point yet of "Abandon All Hope, Ye Who Enter Here"

I think the final changes were a nerf with a point. In order to make the Stingers contribute to the faction long-term, we needed to lose a few things... Also, WTH, I have OPEN FISTS WITH VAYL AND LEASH. That was a mistake.... somebody is going to PAY for giving me that. Stinger's bushwhack animus is a bigger deal than Typhon's Speed and RAT, for sure.... Losing Destiny Spray.... Sucks... but if this is what it takes to put all the warlocks on an even keel to start out with in PP's mind, it means we get more candy later.

[egloss2002]

As the leading player for legion in Tucson, and i say that due to there being a few new legion players that i am helping to learn the darkness that is caste by everblights wing, i have always adapted to the changes, my meta still believes that legion is a strong army and can be hard to beat, i will step up my efforts to add more legion players to Tucson, or get the closet gamers to come to the game night and the tournys, i am not sure about phoenix, i want to start going up there to spread our advanced technologies



Hey Neutralyze, we are wondering if you could make our genesis event on the 17th

[Neutralyze]

As the leaing player for legion in Tucson, and i say that due to there being a few new legion players that i am helping to learn the darkness that is casted by everblights wing, i have always adapted to the changes, my meta still believes that legion is a strong army and can be hard to beat, i will step up my efforts to add more legion players to tucson, or get the closet gamers to come to the game night and the tournys, i am not sure about phoenix, i want to start going up there to spread our advanced technologies



Hey Neutralyze, we are wondering if you could make our genesis event on the 17th

the genesis event is a little soon for hte Detroit crew to come out. Do you guys have any conventions or big 2-3 day tournies there?

[egloss2002]

the genesis event is a little soon for hte Detroit crew to come out. Do you guys have any conventions or big 2-3 day tournies there?

tuc-con is comming up and we want to run a good even there, and tucson comicon is comming up in nov i think, i will talk with the PGs here and find out any new plans for big events, i can tell you that we are hoting a 3 day demo weekend to boost the community here, that takes place in sept i can get you the dates, the more people the better, cause we want to run a partner tourny, a new player and a vet player working together, i will keep you posted

[Zazoo]

I think you are missing the point. I didn't start this thread to accommodate the super whiners or the super kool-aid drinkers....both of which we have an abundance of apparently. Regardless of whether he/she is winning 90% of his/her games (probably an arbitrary number used to signify a "majority"), he/she has the right attitude. Alchahest, you can aruge all you want that the faction is in a great state until you are blue in the face. On the flip-side, you can argue that all we have is sucktastic models. This gets us no where in the grander scheme of things. Whether you agree with Zazoo or not, what Zazoo is conveying is the attitude I was trying to get at. We will make it work for us and make our opponents fear us still.

Quite right.
I have no real idea what my win ratio is but I win more than I lose.

[Kalaris]

I think the final changes were a nerf with a point. In order to make the Stingers contribute to the faction long-term, we needed to lose a few things... Also, WTH, I have OPEN FISTS WITH VAYL AND LEASH. That was a mistake.... somebody is going to PAY for giving me that. Stinger's bushwhack animus is a bigger deal than Typhon's Speed and RAT, for sure.... Losing Destiny Spray.... Sucks... but if this is what it takes to put all the warlocks on an even keel to start out with in PP's mind, it means we get more candy later.

You know the counter arguments I've been hearing for why its ok for us to be nerfed always come down to the points in red.

I agree bushwhack will be amazing IF it makes it to final print, but more to the point its 5 months away!

AS a faction we've suffered all the way through MK2, hoping on the next update to make us better, and then it nerfed us time and time again, we kept telling ourselves we'll be better at final print, well we aren't, we've already been waiting what 9 months?

Legion will win, we're going to come up with nasty stupid wrong things that PP didn't think of and we're going to wreck face, but our options to do so are SO limited, each caster has about 6 models(not counting units) that are worth using, and then we're going to start spamming the hell out of them.

I'm not at all upset about sprays of destiny, not one bit, or Typhon's rat and spd reduction (but I AM upset he doesn't have pathfinder, and reach) What I am upset about is looking at other factions, and they get to have "Nice things" Kara Sloan gets to have Everything we wanted with elylyth , an an entire case of chips, Molik Karn? Not going to go there. Our infantry is mostly unimpressive, (I mean Legionnaires are GREAT for dying) but we don't put them on the table and the other player goes, AW @#$E@#$@# long-gunners with snipe.

Each faction has something that is Overtly Broken, What's Legions?

Ok my morning rant is over... my point is, I'm tired of WAITING.

[alchahest]

there've been a lot of people arguing that the changes were for balance right now rather than getting better in the future. Typhon synergises well with both lylyths, benefits from absylonia and rhyas, vayl works well with pretty much any beast, as do the thags. they work in different ways (as they should) but if typhon = spray assassin death machine to you, then try with the lylyths. if you like his 2 pow 17s and regeneration madness, go with ethags (hint: you can still spray but you'll need to boost more often)

point is, he's fine as is. and even melee only for MD, Ethags borders on broken. having not played sprays of destiny, I've never found myself wanting when it comes to facing off against "overtly broken" models like MK, Deathjack, etc. there's non-broken ways to get around any problem PP can present to us.

[Zerosoul]

point is, he's fine as is. and even melee only for MD, Ethags borders on broken.

No he doesn't, and hyperbole like this doesn't help anyone.

[PyroSikTh]

if you like his 2 pow 17s and regeneration madness, go with ethags (hint: you can still spray but you'll need to boost more often)

I bought Typhon AFTER the spoilers for this very reason. I can see it being ridiculously fun with the constant backwards and forwards, without the sighs of "here we go again" from opponents.

[Tsaimath]

I bought Typhon AFTER the spoilers for this very reason. I can see it being ridiculously fun with the constant backwards and forwards, without the sighs of "here we go again" from opponents.

I bought my Typhon (with Absy) on Tuesday... (store had one in stock for some months)
Not so much because I like the rules, I have to get used to have a faction that actually can move and shoot

I simply bought him because the model looks (imo) really, really COOL i mean, hey, you got a freaking 3-headed "Land-Dragon", T-Rex, whatever you wanna call it
If that is not enough to field a model, well, good night
All in all, imo Legion has the coolest models of all factions (thats why I started them)

[Karadek]

I agree with blitz and shadowsprite. I've been playing Legion since Hordes first came out, and I plan to keep doing it. I plan on still making them cry.

Business as usual.