Gunfighter and Melee range

[Analytic Engine]

It has been answered on the rules forum.

If you already have a melee range, Gunfighter lets you shoot models in that range.
If you do not have one yet, Gunfighter gives you 0.5" melee range and lets you shoot models in that range.

-DC

This question has come out of the very long thread about the latest errata.

Is the above true? I thought that Gunfighter granted strictly a range of .5", however AJ the Ronin seems to have a private message (posted above) from PPS_DC that says this might not be a true assumption.

So, my question is this:

Does gunfighter allow a reach model to shoot in melee up to 2"?

[NmoLvr]

Check this thread.

A model with the Gunfighter advantage has a melee range of 0.5˝ and can make ranged attacks targeting models in its melee range.

Gunfighter can only be used at 0.5" regardless of whether or not you have reach.

Unless something has changed that I couldn't find....

[PG_Mootaz]

A model with the Gunfighter advantage can make ranged attacks targeting models in its melee range. If a Gunfighter does not have a melee range, it gains a melee range of 0.5".

So if you have a Weapon with "Reach", you can make Gunfighter attacks also in the range from 0.5" - 2".

Yes, this is a change from an earlier ruling.

[NmoLvr]

So if you have a Weapon with "Reach", you can make Gunfighter attacks also in the range from 0.5" - 2".

Yes, this is a change from an earlier ruling.

Cool! Thanks for straightening me out.

[Analytic Engine]

And Rayvn Rejoices! Thank you Mootaz for confirming this so quickly, this an unexpected change.

[vintersbastard]

And the Stormguard Sergeant isn't confused about the Nexus Generator anymore! Very lovely.

(As well as Typhon Playing God. Ugh, those sprays got even more dangerous.)

[Draznar]

Didn't Typhon lose reach in field test just to avoid this interaction? Then he got +1 SPD to make up for loss of reach. Now he's back to SPD 6, doesn't have reach (or Pathfinder), and the gunfight + reach issue has been resolved? What gives with that? ~_~

[alchahest]

I don't think this thread is the place for that. Start a new one or email custserv or something.

[nachtnebel]

Didn't Typhon lose reach in field test just to avoid this interaction? Then he got +1 SPD to make up for loss of reach. Now he's back to SPD 6, doesn't have reach (or Pathfinder), and the gunfight + reach issue has been resolved? What gives with that? ~_~

It's Legion, we have to get used to things like that.

[bouncymischa]

Didn't Typhon lose reach in field test just to avoid this interaction? Then he got +1 SPD to make up for loss of reach. Now he's back to SPD 6, doesn't have reach (or Pathfinder), and the gunfight + reach issue has been resolved? What gives with that? ~_~

Unless the developers specifically said that the changes were made for this reason, I'd guess that the changes to Typhon's Reach and SPD were made for other reasons. Reach is a very potent ability, while the change to SPD affects things like running distance, so it's possible they decided to adjust his abilities for reasons other than the Gunfighter/Reach interaction.

[blitzmonkey]

Unless the developers specifically said that the changes were made for this reason, I'd guess that the changes to Typhon's Reach and SPD were made for other reasons. Reach is a very potent ability, while the change to SPD affects things like running distance, so it's possible they decided to adjust his abilities for reasons other than the Gunfighter/Reach interaction.

Curse me for typing this out in a rules thread, but the interaction WAS part of the reason. I said this in the LoE forums, but I was one of the big proponents of getting rid of either reach or gunslinger because of the interaction. I remember VIVIDLY one of the developers (I can tell you who specifically if you would like) replying, very kindly I might add, and saying that he lost reach and was given +1 speed in part because of the rules interaction. So yes, there is a chance it was changed for other interactions. But, I feel, that he lost reach mostly BECAUSE of this interaction.

[Dropkickduffy]

Curse me for typing this out in a rules thread, but the interaction WAS part of the reason. I said this in the LoE forums, but I was one of the big proponents of getting rid of either reach or gunslinger because of the interaction. I remember VIVIDLY one of the developers (I can tell you who specifically if you would like) replying, very kindly I might add, and saying that he lost reach and was given +1 speed in part because of the rules interaction. So yes, there is a chance it was changed for other interactions. But, I feel, that he lost reach mostly BECAUSE of this interaction.

I was under the same impression as well. Typhon gained +1 spd as a trade-off for losing reach, which was in response to the rule interaction.

And I think in regard to Reach + Gunfighter, any discussion about Typhon is completely relevant.

[bouncymischa]

Curse me for typing this out in a rules thread, but the interaction WAS part of the reason. I said this in the LoE forums, but I was one of the big proponents of getting rid of either reach or gunslinger because of the interaction. I remember VIVIDLY one of the developers (I can tell you who specifically if you would like) replying, very kindly I might add, and saying that he lost reach and was given +1 speed in part because of the rules interaction. So yes, there is a chance it was changed for other interactions. But, I feel, that he lost reach mostly BECAUSE of this interaction.

I didn't follow the Hordes Field Test in detail, so I wasn't sure. It could've been that "Typhon + Reach" was up for debate about getting axed anyways, so they figured "This is as good an excuse as any" and got rid of it, giving him the +1 SPD so he had almost as much threat range. But giving that he lost the SPD bonus, it's quite possible that even had he retained the Reach + Gunfighter combo, he may well have lost it in the transition to the final copy anyways, since he lost the SPD bonus.

[Sevwall]

You guys are pretty much guaranteeing that they never discuss rules changes again .

[admanb]

You guys are pretty much guaranteeing that they never discuss rules changes again .

I'm pretty sure **** like this is exactly why the Infernals form a gateway between the Rules forum and the developers. I don't think the developers would write rules at all if they had to read some of the arguments that led to the errata they wrote.

[jandrese]

OTOH, I'd like to think that these arguments improve the quality of the rules over time, as the developers put more thought into weird interpretations of the wording and make an effort (like they did for all die, then heal 1 point effects) to make it fit in as cleanly as possible with the rules and avoid the need for tens of pages of erratas and clarifications on cornercases.

[PG_Stevo]

Didn't Typhon lose reach in field test just to avoid this interaction? Then he got +1 SPD to make up for loss of reach. Now he's back to SPD 6, doesn't have reach (or Pathfinder), and the gunfight + reach issue has been resolved? What gives with that? ~_~

Not really, since Typhon can get reach from Absylonia.

[PG_Mootaz]

This is a rules forum, not a "let's discuss what the developers might have thought" forum.
Question was answered.