How to Roll with Stones, A Pocket Guide to Kriel Stone Bearers

[Beckman]

Kriel Stone Bearers.
People range from loving the unit to never touching them. The most common reason that I hear for them not being taken is: They don't fit my playstyle. In this guide, I'm going to try to make a case for the following two points.

1. Kriel Stone Bearers can be a worthy addition to many lists.
2. They shouldn't be cramping your style as you play with them.


I think the Kriel Stone Bearer and Stone Scribes have gotten an unfair stigma from MK1 brick lists as well as the first games that people play against casters such as pMadrak. The stacking of buffs creates extremely hard to kill Champions. Because the pMadrak style of play results in a very clumped army, the Kriel Stone Bearer is blamed as the culprit for this. I'm going to try to set the record straight here.

In MK1, the KSB was a crutch unit. Most lists ran it. It was an auto-include. MK2 rolled around, and now we have more options - Good options. In under 50 points, it's sort of questionable as to whether you would need the KSB at all. I'm going to try to describe the reasons that you would take a KSB in your list. It's a viable option to run without, but I roll with the KSB in most of my lists.

It's pretty much unavoidable to talk about the Stone Scribe Elder, with your Kriel Stone Bearers. Even if you take a minimum unit of Kriel Stone Bearers, you're better off taking a Stone Scribe Elder and a min unit than a max unit. You net lose 1 model, but gain a whole bunch of awesome abilities, and your Stone Scribe Bearer has boxes. It's pretty much a no-brainer unless you're going to take a min unit of Kriel Stone Bearer and Stone Scribes, simply because you don't want to spend the points on anything else.


Statline:
Average Troll across the board. Arm is "a Baker's ______ + 1", but is buffed by their own aura. Really nothing to see

here...

Abilities:
No Fleeing
"A Bank for Fury"
_____ as nails

Protective Aura - 4" + 1" for each Fury on the Kriel Stone Bearer, you can't have more Fury on the KSB than the number of models in this unit.

Self-Sacrifice: Guys can't stop jumping in front of he KSB...

Stone Scribe Elder:
Statline: Nothing impressive, +1 MAT over Stone Scribes,
Basically, you get to choose one of 3 abilities when you use protective aura, in addition to your +armor.
1. Incorporeal and Stealth goes away while within the aura
2. No Continuous Effects
3. +1 Str to friendly trollblood models within the aura.

[Beckman]

Let's talk about Roles. I'm going to go from the least useful roles to the most useful.

4. Melee Unit
Yeah, that's right. I went there. About once every 5-6 games, my KSBs actually kill something before dying. It makes me happy inside. They do have MAT5. Fear it. Actually, though... if you're playing an eMadrak list, you actually might make them fear it. Buff it with a Fell Caller and put Blood Fury on it, and it's actually not bad. Of course, this is assuming that you don't have anything else better to do. Practically any other melee unit would do better...


3. Remover of Incorporeal
This is kindof a good thing. The unit can RUN and activate it's aura, so as long as you have the KSB stocked on fury, you can get that incorporeal thing dead. You may end up losing your KSB if you just sort of dump it out there. I've definately done this. Sometimes, it's the only way. We're not a magic rich faction. Incorporeal can be a problem. Sadly, this does not help against Vilmon.

2. Tarpit Unit
This is MONEY. This is the secondary reason I play them... almost every game. The unit is fearless on a medium base as 7 models for 5 points. Nowhere near as good as Kriel Warriors statwise, but they can be REALLY BLOBBY when you just run them and activate their aura for (probably) one last time. Obviously, this is only a really good secondary use for the KSB... But almost every game, I get to a certain point and liquidate the KSB for a tempo gain. Oh yeah, and like most things, they are quite annoying with Iron Flesh.

The trick to liquidating your KSBs for tempo is to find a model or unit that will make your life difficult if it gets into melee, then charge or run your KSBs into it. You'll get your +4 to DEF from being in melee, and it's really rather difficult to remove ~7 KSBs from in front of a unit without activating the unit, which will buy you time. You've already gotten your money out of the KSBs Auras.

1. Protective Buffing and You:

This is at least 50% of why you take this unit. +2 Arm is useful for a variety of reasons. Getting more ARM helps you:

Be more resistant to assassination:
For front line casters, such as the Madraks and Borka, the KSB gives a little more breathing room in the face of the dangers of the front line. For frail casters, such as Hoarluk and Calandra it offers protection against arc'd spells and massed low-pow ranged attacks.

vs Arcnodes
It's hard a lot of the time to prevent an arcnode from getting an angle on your caster. On a caster such as pAsphyxious, or the Coven, you might very well be dead right then. Hoarluk is ARM 15 base, which is Dice-3 on a POW12, ~4pts on an unboosted roll, when you compare that to ~2.2 points when under the effect of the KSB, it can be quite significant.

In the example of a pAsphyxious arcnode getting in for Breath of Corruption, you're looking at pAsphyxious casting two boosted to damage POW 12s, and two unboosted POW12s.If Hoarluk is under the KSB and you're using shotgun numbers, you've got 2x2.2 dmg, 2x5.5 = ~15.4 dmg. Since you probably have a transfer this puts you solidly into the "survival" camp. If you don't have the KSB, you're looking at ~23 dmg, which becomes a little hazardous, even with a transfer.

vs Shooting
With a caster like Hoarluk, a unit getting a couple of Pow 12 ranged potshots in can pile the damage on pretty quick. The Bouncer can be used as a defense against long-range large CRAs, but what about massed two-man CRAs? A bouncer could eat the first one, but the following ones could pile on the damage, The KSB will probably stop this from being lethal, unless your caster already has damage.

vs Melee
I'm not gonna lie, the KSB is not going to help your caster weather melee unless he was already designed to be there. That's just how it is. Charging weaponmasters, beasts of any kind, Jacks... all of these will end you, depending on your buffs and caster. The KSB helps against assassination runs that you could reasonably survive and gives you an extra margin. It's not a get out of jail free card.

vs Continuous Effects
It's pretty obvious, but if you play against an army with heavy Fire or Corrosion continuous effects... well, they will hate the KSB and SSE with a passion. It matters with low ARM casters such as Calandra. If she gets fire on her, you'll either be shunting damage or taking it. Neither is good. SSE stops this.

Help your troops resist AOEs better, and survive the occational flubbed low-pow to-damage roll
A reasonable example would be helping ARM14 models survive POW8 blast damage. Pow 8 needs a 7 (58% chance) to kill before KSB, but a 9 to kill afterwards (28% chance). Edit: If you brought the SSE, you will not be worrying about Fire and Corrosion continuous effects. I'm looking at you, pFeora.

Honestly, this helps as a side benefit... because the more troops that you have with low ARM, the less I feel like taking a KSB. Why? Because you have that much more STUFF inbetween the enemy and your caster. If you're taking Fennblades and Burrowers and Fellcallers, you've got a lot of tarpit inbetween the enemy caster and you. The Fennblades are filling a tarpit role, which makes the KSB a little less useful, and since you already have Burrowers & Fenns, you can try to keep stuff from ever reaching your caster.

Helps you by stacking ARM on multi-wound models that already have high ARM.
This is a kicker, and it's the real reason I take the KSB. Let's explore this. We've got pretty good ARM on our multi-wound models. Our Champs go from ARM18 to ARM20, our light beasts generally go from ARM 16 to ARM 18, and our heavies hit ARM 20. We've pretty much got DEF 12 across the board,

What does this mean? It means a charging POW 12 does ~2.8 dmg per hit to ARM 20, and ~4.6 dmg a hit on ARM 18. That's the difference between two or three hits to kill a champion. More importantly, that's the difference between 10 POW 12 charging hits to kill a 28 wound heavy warbeast and 6 hits. Or if it were charging POW15s, ~5 hits instead of ~4. Remember, we're talking hits, not attacks.. as the enemy will probably need 5s or so to hit. Hopefully you're not letting whole units charge your beasts..

Conceptually, the KSB will help the most in saving your multi-wound trolls from being "plinked" to death by low-medium power shots or charges. Saving nearly 2 damage on each shot is a big deal if you're going to be taking a high volume of crappy attacks. If you're going to take a low volume of high powered attacks, it matters.. just not as much.

*UPDATE EDIT* So when this tactica was written, Janissa wasn't out yet. For those of you who don't know, Janissa makes a wall, and standing behind it gives you cover. However, taking an Earthbound Dire Troll gives you access to his animus, which allows you to give Elemental Communion to another model (usually Mulg) and give him +2 ARM so long as he's standing near the wall. This +2 ARM stacks with the Krielstone Bearer's ARM buff, which makes Mulg ARM23 and the Earthbound Dire Troll ARM22. Obviously, ARM22 and 23 are exponentially harder to kill than ARM21 and 20. Standing behind the wall gives Mulg and the Earthbound +2 DEF against melee attacks with reach and makes non-reach models unable to stand on the wall and attack them. This strategy forms the basis of the "Beast Brick", and works best with Janissa, the KSB, and 2-3 heavies.. At least one of which being the Earthbound Dire Troll.

[Beckman]

How to Play the KSB
The KSB aura is 11" from the KSB, which really makes it ~23 inches in diameter. Add in a run, and you should be able to be almost anywhere with it. It really has NOTHING to do with a brick formation other than working well with it.

1st turn, dump your Warlock's fury in the KSB, activate the KSB second and use the aura. Second turn activate KSB first, then activate your caster and dump fury into it. The stone's aura is a BUBBLE, not a Pulse, and is based on the amount of FURY currently on the KSB, so if you charge out of the bubble, or if the enemy kills models in the KSB unit such that it's fury exceeds its maximun fury, the unit will shed the excess FURY and the bubble will shrink - which can make things out of the Aura that were in before. Be aware of this.

There are really three key concepts to understand about how to play the KSB.
1. RUN and do your aura. It can position itself wherever you need it.
Position your aura according to what you want to be in it during your turn.

2. Don't feel constrained to be in the aura.
Charging out of the aura in order to favorably trade with something that you need dead is OK. A good player will need to do this less often, because they will be better at #1.

3. At a certain point in the game, the KSB will start to be less valuable.
You've lost models. Now you have less total models to be affected by its buffs. Liquidate it. Exchange for tempo. Clog the middle. They need to turn from a support piece to a tempo model. They do it very well.

[Beckman]

Bonus Strategies
I'm going to call these "bonus strategies" because they rely on high stacked armor. If you don't have the KSB, these tactics will suffer for it.

Depriving the Enemy of Targets
If you have no low ARM targets, and the KSBs stay out of range of enemy AOEs, then the enemy's low POW attacks are pretty pointless. This is obviously a significant list building decision, and should not be made lightly. If you go this route, mass weaponmasters can be a problem. AOEs? Not a problem. Low-Pow ranged attacks? Not a big deal, even with CRA.

Depriving the Charge
If you can deprive a unit of the charge, (by killing unit members, then goading further into the unit, for instance) then they will be really feeling the effects of ARM 20 vs ARM 18, especially if they are not weaponmaster. With beasts, the strategy is to sufficiently lower the opponent's counterattacking potential. In general, units have lower "threat density" than beasts or Jacks. Models like the Bomber can do this quite easily. Guess what's not countercharging you? The models that you just blew up. Take "bites" out of the edges of units and leave the rest of the unit out of countercharge range. If they spread out, this is easier. If they clumped up, you can AOE them better, and reach models can kill more stuff in one go.

[Beckman]

List Building - UPDATED 12-19-2012
So the lists that were originally here have been axed, as they're not relevant anymore. At low point games, the KSB doesn't make much sense. The lower points that you play, the more resources out of your total available resources that the KSB takes up. But when you start stacking some ARM, or hit 50 points, I usually think about it. Here are some lists for discussion.

Madrak Ironhide, World Ender (*5pts)
* Troll Impaler (5pts)
* Dire Troll Bomber (10pts)
Krielstone Bearer and 5 Stone Scribes (4pts)
* Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder (1pts)
Pyg Burrowers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
Trollkin Fennblades (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer (2pts)
Trollkin Long Riders (Leader and 2 Grunts) (7pts)
Fell Caller Hero (3pts)
War Wagon (9pts)

A hybrid ranged/melee list, this eMadrak list isn't shut down by high DEF single wounders, since it has a War Wagon and Bomber. If the Bomber becomes engaged, the War Wagon shoots at the Bomber while the War Wagon is in Base to Base. The shot needs a 11 to hit, since the Wagon is RAT5, and the Bomber is DEF16 while engaged. If you -do- hit, the Bomber is not KD, since it is not an enemy model. Either way, you do POW8 blast in a 5" AOE on the enemies engaging the Bomber. This frees the bomber up to AOE the infantry that is engaging it.

Obviously, eMadrak does OK vs high ARM lists. The KSB prevents against continuous effects on your infantry, adds ARM to your beasts and War Wagon and serves as dudes that eMaddy can eat in order to play further forward.

Calandra Truthsayer, Oracle of the Glimmerwood (*5pts)
* Slag Troll (6pts)
* Troll Impaler (5pts)
* Dire Troll Bomber (10pts)
* Earthborn Dire Troll (10pts)
* Trollkin Runebearer (2pts)
Kriel Warriors (Leader and 5 Grunts) (4pts)
* 3 Kriel Warrior Caber Thrower (3pts)
Krielstone Bearer and 5 Stone Scribes (4pts)
* Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder (1pts)
Trollkin Fennblades (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer (2pts)

This is a combined arms list with a decent amount of shooting to soften the opponent up. You've got infantry to jam, and you've got a STR buff for the Earthborn from the Pyre AND you can run a Caber. P+S23 Earthborn is scary (STR12+8 (stolen POW of caber) + 2 (Slag) +1 (SSE))=23. Calandra's feat, probability altering abilities, and soothing song really help round out the list. Slags are good ranged against Colossals / WoldWrath because of their terrible DEF. They average almost as much damage as a Bomber against things that they can reliably hit.

Borka Kegslayer (*5pts)
* Dire Troll Mauler (9pts)
* Earthborn Dire Troll (10pts)
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
Krielstone Bearer and 3 Stone Scribes (3pts)
* Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder (1pts)
Sons of Bragg (6pts)
Trollkin Fennblades (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer (2pts)
Trollkin Runeshapers (Leader and 2 Crew) (4pts)
Professor Victor Pendrake (2pts)

This is an alternate build to the normal cav build that you see running around (-SoB, -Runeshapers, -KSB+SSE, -Victor Pendrake, +Max Long Riders, +Horthol). I feel that you're going to need 2 heavy beasts with Borka. He's not a super high assassination threat caster.


Grissel Bloodsong, Marshal of the Kriels (*6pts)
* Troll Impaler (5pts)
* Dire Troll Mauler (9pts)
Kriel Warriors (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* 3 Kriel Warrior Caber Thrower (3pts)
* Kriel Warrior Standard Bearer & Piper (2pts)
Krielstone Bearer and 5 Stone Scribes (4pts)
* Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder (1pts)
Sons of Bragg (6pts)
Trollkin Long Riders (Leader and 4 Grunts) (11pts)
Trollkin Runeshapers (Leader and 2 Crew) (4pts)
Horthol, Long Rider Hero (5pts)

So this list uses Dash to selectively engage, has many multi-wound models in addition to one high ARM single wound frontline unit (KWs). The Impaler is for Grissel's ranged KD and template to deny infantry movement by the opponent. eGrissel is very assassination resistant and is good against Infantry. Her weakspot - Armor - is a killer in the Colossals meta, so the above list might need more tools to deal with armor... The key with the above list is that Dash allows you to the stuff up that you want to clog up, which can allow the Mauler to get the charge.

[Beckman]

UPDATE 12-19-2012

So it's been over 2 years since I wrote this guide and a lot has changed. When I first wrote this guide, the KSB was in and out of lists. It was regarded as optional and somewhat 'meh. People had abandoned it for some of our new shinier toys. Fast forward a little bit and Janissa came out. Janissa changed the game with her wall, which allows players to stack Elemental Communion with the KSB aura, which results in ARM22-23 beasts standing behind a linear obstacle. A tactic known as, "Bricking". The "Troll beast brick" consists of Mulg, an Earthborn, Janissa, and the KSB.

Fast forward a little bit to 2011 and infantry lists were pretty popular. Good lists were either bringing a lot of Jacks or one Jack. This meant that the KSB+SSE took a dip in popularity as well. Fast forward to current and people are adjusting to Colossals. Colossals are generally focus efficient and effective against infantry. Therefore, infantry has dipped a little in popularity. Also, in order to deal with Colossals players typically need high quality attacks to punch through the additional armor and boxes that Colossals have. Also, you now have a chance that the opponent brought a more expensive model for Mulg to wreck. Whereas before, he was probably the priciest thing on the table.

So here are some changes that favor using the KSB at current:
1) +1 STR is super relevant with Colossals around. So much so that I'm taking a Mauler instead of a Pyre in a lot of my lists. Both for the +1 STR and for the second heavy. An additional +1 STR from the KSB is good if you want to hunt a 56 box Colossal.
2) Many of the Colossals use AOEs as an infantry removal mechanism. +2 ARM is very relevant against the AOEs that Colossals put out.
3) Since the Stormwall and Conquest put out "Stay Away" templates, and there are several Jacks and the Ravagore/Wold Wrath put "Stay Away" templates out, Higher ARM and Multiwound Infantry has become better. +ARM is better the more boxes you have.
4) The Troll Beast Brick (mentioned above) is very good at dealing with Colossals if it can get into threat range.

So here are some lists that really couldn't work without the KSB:
Runes of War Tier 4
Hoarluk Doomshaper (*7pts)
* Troll Axer (6pts)
* Dire Troll Mauler (9pts)
* Earthborn Dire Troll (10pts)
* Mulg the Ancient (12pts)
Krielstone Bearer and 5 Stone Scribes (4pts)
* Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder (1pts)
Trollkin Runeshapers (Leader and 2 Crew) (3pts)
Trollkin Runeshapers (Leader and 2 Crew) (3pts)
Trollkin Runeshapers (Leader and 2 Crew) (3pts)
Trollkin Runeshapers (Leader and 2 Crew) (3pts)
Janissa Stonetide (3pts)

Hoarluk Doomshaper, Rage of Dhunia (*6pts)
* Troll Axer (6pts)
* Dire Troll Mauler (9pts)
* Earthborn Dire Troll (10pts)
* Mulg the Ancient (12pts)
* Trollkin Runebearer (2pts)
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
Krielstone Bearer and 3 Stone Scribes (3pts)
* Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder (1pts)
Janissa Stonetide (3pts)

Family Reunion Tier 4
Borka Kegslayer (*5pts)
* Dire Troll Mauler (9pts)
* Earthborn Dire Troll (10pts)
Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (Boomhowler and 9 Grunts) (9pts)
Krielstone Bearer and 3 Stone Scribes (3pts)
* Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder (1pts)
Trollkin Champions (Leader and 2 Grunts) (5pts)
Trollkin Champions (Leader and 2 Grunts) (5pts)
Trollkin Champions (Leader and 2 Grunts) (5pts)
Stone Scribe Chronicler (2pts)
Trollkin Champion Hero (3pts)
Trollkin Champion Hero (3pts)

Captain Gunnbjorn (*5pts)
* Slag Troll (6pts)
* Troll Impaler (5pts)
* Winter Troll (5pts)
* Dire Troll Blitzer (9pts)
* Dire Troll Blitzer (9pts)
* Dire Troll Bomber (10pts)
* Trollkin Runebearer (2pts)
Krielstone Bearer and 3 Stone Scribes (3pts)
* Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder (1pts)
Janissa Stonetide (3pts)
Troll Whelps (2pts)
(this list may or may not be good currently, but since Flanzer used it to win an event, I'm Jacking it)

I'm going to revisit the lists that I originally proposed and update them. They'll probably be a little less brickish than these. I am going to leave the obvious pMaddy brick to someone else - I am simply not the person to ask. I know Surefoot+Janissa+KSB+SSE+EBDT+Mulg is good, but I don't have experience trying to play pMaddy in a competitive environment, so I'm not the person to ask how to build a good pMaddy list.

[Saerko]

Added to the sticky!

[Biggre]

I can't believe there was no mention of eMaddy one of the ways the krielstone really shines is by letting him move where ever he wants while keeping ratharok (sp?) fodder around him. When playing with a bomber throw girded on madrak and keep 2-3 stones in b2b with him and watch your opponent scratch his head about how he's gonna get to madrak AND kill the stones just to put points on him. The stone is the greatest fodder piece is his army.

[R3n3]

I alway played my KSB in the back of my army, let them run and sacrifice them never came into mind. Thanks for that heads up!

[Beckman]

I can't believe there was no mention of eMaddy one of the ways the krielstone really shines is by letting him move where ever he wants while keeping ratharok (sp?) fodder around him. When playing with a bomber throw girded on madrak and keep 2-3 stones in b2b with him and watch your opponent scratch his head about how he's gonna get to madrak AND kill the stones just to put points on him. The stone is the greatest fodder piece is his army.

Absolutely good points, I'll be sure to add them if I end up doing a caster-by-caster. I'm kindof questioning whether doing a caster-by-caster would be redundant or not... I feel like most of the benefit of the KSB has to do with your overall army composition, rather than specific models (except, perhaps in eMadrak's case). To some degree playstyle is important to the KSB's worth also. Someone who plays Grim very far forward for DEF debuffing will get more use out of the KSB, than someone who uses him as a 17" solo hunter. If people want to see a caster-by-caster, however, I'll do it.

I alway played my KSB in the back of my army, let them run and sacrifice them never came into mind. Thanks for that heads up!

Rock on, glad this was useful.

[The Happy Anarchist]

One thing people should be aware of. If the stone does die, you lose the aura even though the stone & fury on it pass on to the new leader the aura is no longer active for the turn. Keep that in mind, this is why self sacrifice is so important.

[Beckman]

Bump due to me updating this article. Whee!

[FranzGrenstein]

One thing people should be aware of. If the stone does die, you lose the aura even though the stone & fury on it pass on to the new leader the aura is no longer active for the turn. Keep that in mind, this is why self sacrifice is so important.

Wait, what.

Explain the rulings for this, please.

[Arizona_Troll]

Wait, what.

Explain the rulings for this, please.

No ruling necessary - it's in the tactical tip for the unit in the Forces of Trollbloods book.

[PG_joedj]

Beckman: Very nice!

I'd add that the KSB is, for the point cost per model, our cheapest MED based unit. Therefore an excellent mid-late game use for Scribes is as slam targets or ranged-AOE targets when dealing with high DEF small-based models. Trading a cheap Scribe to kill or at least KD two Kayazy Eliminators (or other hi-DEF assassins) is pure win!

[Jota]

Don not forget to charge with them when the opportunity arises, I did for a time and let them just sit behind doing nothing but projecting the Aura. That is a waste of resources. The last couple of tournaments Mine have killed Manhunters, LoE Swordsmen, LoE Pot-spawns, Zealots and more.

[Ryssen2]

After having played two games against Maelok and having Gatormen running through my lines under his feat I wonder if the SSE's ability to remove incorporeal negates the feat? That would mean a very solid counter to the croc with candles on his back.
Or do I have it wrong?

[Digestive]

No, you're right.

That's also why I think changing eGaspy's feat from incorporeal to ghostly was a buff ;-)

€: But the candle guys feat still gives an armor bonus iirc.

[Pjolterbeist]

I'd add that the KSB is, for the point cost per model, our cheapest MED based unit. Therefore an excellent mid-late game use for Scribes is as slam targets or ranged-AOE targets when dealing with high DEF small-based models. Trading a cheap Scribe to kill or at least KD two Kayazy Eliminators (or other hi-DEF assassins) is pure win!

Actually they're not. Kriel Warriors are 0.6 / model in a full unit. Scribes are 0.67 / model in a full unit.

Pedantry aside, the tactic is awesome.

[Beckman]

Beckman: Very nice!

I'd add that the KSB is, for the point cost per model, our cheapest MED based unit. Therefore an excellent mid-late game use for Scribes is as slam targets or ranged-AOE targets when dealing with high DEF small-based models. Trading a cheap Scribe to kill or at least KD two Kayazy Eliminators (or other hi-DEF assassins) is pure win!

Thanks! I especially like using KSBs as eMaddy Grim Salvation bait. I agree that they kill pretty much exactly as much as any other MAT5/7 unit. Sadly, since MKII the Krielstone Bearer himself forgot how to use his rock like an axe and lost his weapon.

Actually they're not. Kriel Warriors are 0.6 / model in a full unit. Scribes are 0.67 / model in a full unit.

Pedantry aside, the tactic is awesome.

Agreed. Essentially, you're killing enemy models with extremely cheap models that have already fulfilled their purpose

[Pjolterbeist]

Agreed. Essentially, you're killing enemy models with extremely cheap models that have already fulfilled their purpose

Yeah. My other faction is Cygnar... nothing is better than sacrificing one free DEF 10 Risen to place Ryan's Mage Storm whereever you like...

[Rhin0]

How does the stone work with Tough and Self sac.

If someone disables the stone leader can you make a tough check, and it if fails, self sac a grunt ?

OR is it one or the other ?

[PG_Celedor]

Since they both happen at disabled, you make your Tough check first. If that fails, you Self Sacrifice.

[Goris]

This is not correct, you Either tough or self sac, not both.

[Apollo]

This is not correct, you Either tough or self sac, not both.

Can you explain further? Both effects happen on disabled. Is there a timing that prevents the fail tough -> still disabled -> self sacrifice -> heal one point?

Here's a rules post about a similar situation with tough errants, self sacrifice, and martydom. The active player chooses the order of operations on effects that trigger at the same time:

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...ough+sacrifice

[Goris]

I am looking into it, as I understood it, the effects interfere with one another. I need to find where the ruling on it. But, I will check. I don't have my cards on me right now so I can't check directly.

[Arizona_Troll]

You can try to tough, then if you fail you can self-sacrifice. [Goris you had a guest on the Scrumcast several episodes ago (someone from Wales I think?) who talked about this and said you can't, but he was wrong.]

Note that the stone bearer is still knocked down if he makes the tough check, but the aura will stay in effect.

The linked thread above works, as does this one, which directly answers the question for the stone unit:
http://privateerpressforums.com/show...Self-Sacrifice

[PG_Celedor]

Maybe Beckman could add this to the Tactic section, since some people stop reading the thread after that point, and it's something anyone using the stone should be aware of.

[Goris]

I remember seeing this in person at lock and load as well were a judge in some capacity had ruled that way so maybe that was it. Also, another case of me nerfing myself not knowing it wasn't right lol!

[Digestive]

You can try to tough, then if you fail you can self-sacrifice. [Goris you had a guest on the Scrumcast several episodes ago (someone from Wales I think?) who talked about this and said you can't, but he was wrong.]

Note that the stone bearer is still knocked down, but the aura will stay in effect thanks to self-sacrifice.

The linked thread above works, as does this one, which directly answers the question for the stone unit:
http://privateerpressforums.com/show...Self-Sacrifice

This is only partly true. Being knock down is the result of a passed tough check. Since you didn't pass the tough check when you use self sacrifice, the Stone Bearer should not be knocked down. I also didn't found anything in the quoted thread saying anything about knock down.

Of course you may opt to not roll tough if you think it's better to lose a Stone Scribe than to be knocked down after a successful togh roll (e.g. when standing behind a wall and a stray RAT 5 shot hit your Stone. He probably won't roll another 11, but 4 is well within range).

[The Happy Anarchist]

Due to being able to choose, you end up with two scenarios.

Choosing Self Sac first - no tough checks made, KSB remains standing.

Choosing Tough first - if you fail, you can Self Sac in which case the KSB remains standing. If you succeed, you cannot Self Sac and are knocked down.

[Arizona_Troll]

This is only partly true. Being knock down is the result of a passed tough check. Since you didn't pass the tough check when you use self sacrifice, the Stone Bearer should not be knocked down. I also didn't found anything in the quoted thread saying anything about knock down.

Of course you may opt to not roll tough if you think it's better to lose a Stone Scribe than to be knocked down after a successful togh roll (e.g. when standing behind a wall and a stray RAT 5 shot hit your Stone. He probably won't roll another 11, but 4 is well within range).

You're right. I went back and read what I typed and it wasn't exactly what I meant to say. Thanks for catching that! I fixed it.

[Goris]

So, after digging, I have no idea where that idea got put into my head. So I was pretty much just wrong on that. Enjoy double dipping on our survivability.