Khador 101

[Gnoa]

So you are new to the Motherland or are tired of fighting against us and want to join the winning team, eh comrade? Now you are trying to figure out where to begin? Well welcome to Khador 101. Here it is my hope that you will learn the basics of where to begin.

This is not intended to be an advanced tactics thread, just a place for beginners to Khador to start. I limit the options to the tried and true, because as we all know there are so many options that it can be overwhelming. Please try to keep this in mind when you reply to the post?thank you!

I welcome any and all comments to make this a better thread. So if you have any helpful advice which I missed (which is extremely likely) please let me know.
Warcasters

As you know Warcasters are the focal point to your army. Khador tends to have mainly front line casters, with no access to arc nodes (except the Old Witch). However they tend to be melee based, so you should not be afraid to get their hands dirty.

It can be said that there are three types of Warcasters to select from: melee casters, ranged casters, and board control. Melee is "Aggro," Ranged is "Combo" and Board is "Control" if that makes sense from other games.

Melee casters place buffs on our troops and expect to get in there. Vlad and Butcher are a good example. They are played aggressively, and have the ability to make your units and warjack even more formidable in combat.

Ranged isn't really in Khador, as I can only think of Sorscha who just tries to set up the field to kill you. Therefore in Khador we will refer to them as Assassins.

Board casters attempt to wear you down by influencing the board, this is Khador's forte alongside melee. We've got Irusk, Old Witch, Karchev and Zerkova for these roles; they use their abilities/spells to wear down our opponents by changing the rules of the game. Irusk's Inhospitable Ground, for example, or Zerkova's ability to deny opponents their abilities. These are what we refer to as Tacticians.

Recommended Warcasters
I recommend these Warcasters because they have the greatest amount of leniency to new players. They are all powerful in their own right, and their abilities\feats\spells are fairly straight forward? yet powerful.

I am purposely keeping this list small. With all the options available, it can become overwhelming on deciding who to try out. I chose these Warcasters because not only have I seen new players have an easier time with them, but you also tend to see more threads about them?highly useful when trying to determine tactics with them.

These casters are often known to as our Prime Casters, or the Holy Trinity. These were the first three Khador casters introduced, and are as powerful now as they were back when WM started.

The Butcher of Khardov
Why Butcher:
·Large Damage Pool (i.e. survivable)
·Powerful Melee (hits almost like a heavy warjack)
·Great unit and warjack spells

Role: Melee

The Butcher is just plain mean. He has a high amount of damage, high MAT, and respectable armor and focus. His command is a little light, but with the right units in his army that shouldn?t be a problem.

Lola, his axe, is a POW 16 magic weapon with reach. When combined with the fact he is a weapon master, you are looking at a threat range 10? beast on the charge. Very little can survive a dedicated attack from the Butcher.
His unit spells, Fury and Iron Flesh, can make your already lethal units even deadlier in combat. However the main spell people will focus on his Full Throttle. For a small price of focus, you can have your warjacks do some incredible attacks and still leave focus for where Butcher needs it.

Note on Butcher: He is meant to be played aggressively. Don?t keep him back as you won?t get full use out of him. I would rank Butcher as one of the more powerful melee warcasters in the game, so don?t be afraid to let him loose.

Weakness:
The Butcher is a medium based figure. This means your units will not block LoS to him. You will need to look at Man-o-Wars or Jacks to block your opponents view of him. Keep this in mind and don't let it force your hand. Know going in with him that you are going to be a visible target and adjust your plans accordingly.

Kommander Sorcha
Why Sorcha:
·Her Feat is amazing
·She has a number of utility spells to get you through most situations
·She is part of the battle box

Role: Assassin

Sorcha is often the first caster Khador gets as a result of buying the battle box. She is an excellent caster, but requires a little more fitness to play. Unlike Vlad or Butcher, she is not meant to be front line and in the enemies face. Keep her among your troops for best use.

Sorcha used to be one of the deadliest casters in the game as a result of her feat. Although it has been toned down, do not think it is any less dangerous. Simply put, if she sees the enemy and it is within 12 inches of her?they are stationary. This means auto hitting galore in melee.
IMPORTANT NOTE: This ability is less effective on other Khador and Legion of Everblight as have some units who are immune to cold, and therefore this effect.

Sorcha has a number of useful spells, but most likely Boundless Charge on your warjacks, Freezing Grip on key solos or warcasters, and Fog of War to protect your troops will see the most use. Try to avoid combat directly, but don?t be afraid to but her in.

Weakness:
As noted above, Sorcha's key abilities do not work on models who have Immunity: Cold. This can be a crippling monkey wrench thrown in your plans. The good news is there is not one army who can field a whole list of Immune figures. Work your feat and Freezing grip around those who can be frozen and use your other units to take out the enemy Warcaster.

Vlad the Dark Prince
Why Vlad:
·He is a solid combat beast
·His spells and feat can easily change the direction of any game
·A large focus for being a melee Warcaster

Role: Melee

One cannot mention Vlad without mentioning his signature spell: Signs and Portents. This alone is the reason many people take him. Being able to roll an additional die and discard the lowest is huge, especially because it affects any friendly within 14? of Vlad!

Khador is known for its slow jacks, however Vlad can turn them into speed demons on his feat turn. He can also make his jack pathfinders, so there are few places to hide from him.

So you got Vlad into melee combat, Blood of Kings turns him into a juggernaut of destruction. Overall high marks for survivability and support spells!

Weakness:
DEF 18 and ARM 19 are only good while Vlad is on his feet. Avoid getting Vlad knocked down like the plague! This goes for any caster, but chances are few will be as close to the enemy as Vlad.

Warcasters to avoid
There is nothing wrong with these casters. They have their place in our glorious army. However they are a little tricky to learn. If you have been playing Warmachine for a while, these may be fine choices for you?however if you are new to the game I would recommend you pick from my previous list before trying these out.

Kommander Orsus Zoktavir (Epic Butcher)
Why I don?t recommend eButcher at first:
Although Epic Butcher has all the power of the prime version, his varying focus rating can be difficult to grasp. You can never know how much focus you will have each round, so never assume you know which spells you can cast or how much focus you can add to a jack.

Placement of eButcher is also a little tricky. Each attack will target anyone, friend or foe, within 2? of Butcher. He has 360 degree vision, so standing behind him is no help. He also causes terror, so you have to be careful who comes close even during non-combat times.

Koldun Kommander Zerkova
Why I don?t recommend Zerkova at first:
She is one of Khador?s only pure magic casters. Zerkova doesn?t provide unit buffs, and her one jack ability isn?t so much a buff to it rather than another denial spell. She is a lot more fragile and her main purpose is denial to the enemy. I think this alone marks caution. Denial is a solid game tactic, but is harder to learn for most people.

The Other Warcasters
So what about the others: Irusk, Sorcha, Old Witch?? Again there is nothing wrong about these casters, but they have a slightly larger learning curve. I didn?t add them because their troop\jack balance is not as balanced like Vlad?s or pButcher. They are still solid casters, but you might want to learn someone else first.


I would like to thank the Khadorians who made this thread possible by contributing their advice:
Tevesh, Avecrien, Ravnak, General Nemo ( a spy????), Kuarnix

[Gnoa]

One thing it is important to know when starting Khador is, we don?t do light jacks. All of our jacks are heavy. This is ok as we have no use for the puny lightly armored jacks other factions like to use. However we do lack?speed. We do not suffer from this as we have plenty of spells and abilities to boost it. Just know you need to keep the speed 4 in mind when your formulating your tactics.

There are few jacks you can go wrong using, but some are more useful than others for beginners. So here are the first few jacks you may want to consider using.

Recommended Warjacks
Juggernaut
Why recommended:
·He is relatively cheap
·Ice Axe has awesome POW and is devastating on a critical hit
·He comes in the battlebox

This is probably one of the first jacks you would acquire since it is in the battle box. The Juggernaut is simple, tough, and extremely deadly in melee. He is the epitome of the Khador ideal. Don?t let its vanilla statistics turn you off, the Juggernaut has everything you need a heavy Warjack to have.

Your MAT is good, not great. Against heavies you could get away with a straight roll but on anything else you will want to boost. This is not a bad thing though, as our critical hit with the axe freezes the opponent.

The open fist has a solid damage rating, but allows the Juggernaut to perform a number of power attacks. This is one thing to keep in mind; the Juggernaut is not just a one trick pony with melee attacks only. Being able to throw an enemy out of your path has saved many a general.

Destroyer
Why recommended:
·A Ranged Warjack!
·Powerful melee weapon to make him a solid contender in melee
·He comes in the battlebox
·One of the top choices for Jack Marshaling

This is also probably one of the first jacks you would acquire since it is in the battle box. He is a ranged AOE attacker with a nice melee weapon to boot! Like is brother the Juggernaut, he isn?t very flashy. However what he does, he does well.

The bombard is basically a mortar. It has a number of uses, from crowd clearer to sniper rifle (thanks to epic Irusk). The Destroyers rat is on the low side, but aiming and a boosted attack roll will help hit your desired target.

The executioners axe can be a enemy jack?s worst nightmare if it critical hits, which will cripple systems. The Destroyer has a good MAT and can generally get away without boosting the attack roll.

The Destroyer has a place in many armies thanks to the Jack Marshal.
The Jack Marshal will be discussed later, but it is important to note the synergy with a Jack Marshal is excellent. This means you can use the Destroyer to near 100% effectiveness without putting the burden on the Warcaster.

Kodiak
Why recommended:
·He is relatively cheap
·Runs for free
·Pathfinder
·Makes an excellent Jack Marshal candidate
·Good melee damage

The Kodiak does not come in the battle box, but is often found in many Khador lists. First and foremost he is a free runner. If you are new to the game, you have no idea how big that is. This is one less focus you have to spend to get your Warjack cruising towards the enemy.

The Kodiak is a pathfinder, so forests are a joke to him. Running the Kodiak through trees is tactically awesome and opens a lot of possibilities without requiring a special spell to be cast.

The Kodiaks melee attacks are nothing to sneeze at. Most solos, units, and light warjacks can easily be taken out with them. Boost the attack on heavies to guarantee 2 hits and you automatically get a special attack.

Jack Marshals also love Kodiaks. Running for free means a Jack Marshal doesn?t need to use focus. Both our jack marshals have the ability to let the attacks be boosted, and therefore you can trigger the special attack with ease.

Honorable Mention ? Beast 09
Beast 09 is probably one of the best Warjacks in the Khador arsenal, and ranks among the top Warjacks in the game. He is a powerful Juggernaut special character who can wreck havoc on the battlefield. However before I list its greatness, let me first detail why he isn?t in the first 3 pick:

·He is expensive: both monetarily and points-wise
·His special abilities take a little practice to get used to
·He cannot be Jack Marshaled

All that being said, I would recommend Beast 09 as a solid 4th choice for Warjack as you expand your list. He is a powerful melee jack that has the ability to run for free (ala Kodiak). He is Hyper aggressive, which means if someone shoots him (either with magic or ranged weapon) Beast 09 will make a full advance towards them.

For a mere extra focus, his Imprint can boost his attack rolls on living opponents. (Good against casters, bad against Warjacks or Cryx).

A Note of caution: Beast 09 has Thresher on his Ice Axe. This is a sweet ability that needs to be used with caution. If activated, Beast hits everything in LoS and within 2 inches?including your own forces. Use with care!

Jacks to avoid at first
Berserker
The Berserker is the closest thing to a light Warjack that we have. He is a neat little, low-cost Warjack, that comes with kind of significant fault?it is unstable. What this means is if you put focus on it, he could explode. It doesn?t matter if it is at full health, it just goes boom. This can be avoided by Jack Marshaling him or a spell like Unearthly Rage, but because of these reasons I put him into a more ?advanced? category.

Behemoth
The Behemoth is one of the reasons I started Khador. He is a beast, and awesome machine of destruction. He can do both melee and ranged at the same time, but you pay for all this power. First of all he is again one of the more expensive models in the game, both monetarily and points-wise. In fact he is the most expensive Warjack in the game.

He is also a focus hog. Behemoth has a sub-cortex, which controls his range. This cortex can take an additional 3 focus (meaning Behemoth can take a grand total of 6 focus), which can only be used to power the ranged abilities.

Behemoth is a Character, which means he cannot be Marshaled. IF he could, I would consider him in the top 5 list of jacks to buy. But as he cannot, you must attach a Warcaster to him. It can be difficult to juggle how much focus you should put on him or to spend elsewhere.

Devastator
You would think a Warjack who has an ARM 25 would be a must-have Jack for any list. However he is a rather fragile Warjack once you commit him to battle. His ARM 25 comes from his shield arms, which start in the closed position. However to make most of his attacks, he must open those arms up.

It doesn?t matter if you are making a Rain of Death or Open Fist attack. Once you commit, your ARM goes to 17 until the next turn?assuming you don?t want to attack again.

Also Rain of Death is a great ability, but chances are you won?t catch many people in B2B attacks at the same time. This is especially true if you are playing with an experienced player.

[Gnoa]

Units and Solos

The units available to Khador not a cut and dry pick. Everyone has an opinion on which is the best, so it is hard to tell new players which to start will. Therefore I am using a set of criteria for this section that a unit must meet to be included as a first round pick.
Please remember we are shooting for 35pt max to begin with!

Recommended Khador Solos

War Dog
I think most people underestimate the power of the War Dog. For a mere 1 point he makes your Warchaster considerable more survivable in melee combat. +2 defense in melee combat can be all the difference.

Consider what he does for the recommended Warcasters:
· Sorcha DEF 18
· Butcher DEF 16
· Vlad DEF 17 ( or DEF 20 when he casts Blood of Kings)

All this for free, no upkeep no spells. War Dog also counter charges anyone who comes within 6” of the Warcaster. He is tough, has damage boxes, and a descent POW with the ability to hit most attackers. If you don’t believe me, proxy it in a couple games and you will be surprised.

Manhunter
The Manhunter is a solid killer. His best use is as a solo killer, although his ability to get close to the enemy without getting hit with ranged or magic (in most cases) can really mess up your opponents plans.
He is a cheap weapon master (will always have 3 attack dice) with 5 damage boxes. Charging you will be doing 4 damage die. The worst possible scenario means you will do a POW 15 attack.

Jack Marshal (Man-o-War Kovnik or Koldun Lord)
Khador has some of the best Jack Marshal’s in the game. With two solid models to pick from, which is the best for a beginner? From a modeling perspective, that would be a Koldun Lord. However if you want a in-depth look at which, check out the discussion here: Koldun Lord vs Man-o-War Kovnik

Recommended Khador Units

Widowmakers
Ask most Khador players and they will tell you that the Widowmakers were one of their first purchases. They are a solid, straightforward unit to play. Here is what makes them so good:

· With an Aim bonus they are shooting at RAT 9. This means they will be able to hit just about anything they shoot at, and at range 14 you will have ample targets.
· Sniper allows you to auto-damage for 1 point. This means not matter how high the armor of a single wound model is, if you hit them you kill them.
· You can choose the column which you damage a warjack\warbeast. This means you can almost always auto inflict 4 damage and perhaps take out a critical system\branch.
· They deploy after the core component of your enemy is deployed.

Kayazy Assassins
This is the first unit we recommended that has a unit attachment option. To me this isn’t an option, this is an auto-include. To get full benefit from this unit you really need to bring the Underboss.

So why would you want to bring the Kayazy Assassins instead of say Iron Fang Pikeman or Winterguard?

· Fast and maneuverable
· Stealth makes them difficult to target until they are within melee range
· DEF 16 in melee (with Underboss) makes for a hard to hit unit
· High MAT makes hitting enemy likely without trouble
· Parry makes passing by other units less worrying
· Hitting an enemy from behind is as good as being a weapon master
· Cheap (monetarily) and easy to assemble

Great Bears of Gallowswood
New players, especially those who come from other wargaming systems (warhammer), may have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that a 3 person unit can be powerful, but if there is one unit in all of Warmachine that can prove this point it is the Great Bears of Gallowswood. So what makes them so good?

· 3 men with a total of 15 damage boxes
· Excellent MAT
· Weapon Masters with 2 attacks apiece and reach
· 11” threat range on the charge
· Fearless and Tough

This unit can take on just about any unit, warjack, or warbeast. Most casters would not want to get too close to them either. They are by no means immortal or hard to kill, but they are tough (literally ). They can kill anything they set their minds to, and that is before you cast a unit buff on them!

However I think it is only fair to mention two points on the negative side:

· For 3 models, they are not cheap (monetarily)
· Each of the models has their own special rule, which dies if they die. Keeping track of anything can be tricky

By the pure fact that they work well with any caster and in just about any configuration (yeah, they are that good), I think they deserve to be a 1st round pick.

Mechaniks
So is a non-combat unit really that good for a 1st round pick? Yes, if that unit is the Battle Mechaniks. Khador has some of the most powerful Warjacks, but they are only as good as long as the function. Enter these hearty folk.

It may not be common knowledge, but a Warjack can be fixed even if it is locked in combat. So let’s say your Juggernaut had its right arm crippled last round…not to worry! The Mechaniks can repair it before it activates, especially since you can pick which boxes are healed.

Mechaniks can also Jack Marshal, though I would not recommend starting a game with them that way. However if you lose a MoW Kovnik\Koldun Lord but have their jack still functional, the Mechaniks can take control of the inert Warjack and keep it fighting.


Recommended Mercenary Solos
Eiryss the Mage Hunter
Eiryss was one of the first Mercenary solo’s introduced into the game of Warmachine. She was deadly back then, and she is just as deadly now. She is an anti-jack and anti-personnel assassin.

What makes Eiryss so deadly is she has a bolt to handle just about any combat situation (please note that her power comes from her ranged attacks, not melee). With her abilities, she can get to anywhere on the battlefield untouched. She is in this regard, the perfect sniper and has the RAT to hit anything she wants.

Once in place, she has a number of options available to her. However she can only chose one of these attacks per turn:
· Death Bolt – High armor is no problem. If you hit, you auto do 3 points of damage. You also get to choose with column\spiral take damage.
· Disruptor Bolt - Remove focus from a jack and stop it from getting any more for one round.
· Phantom Seeker – As long as you are within 12” of your target, you can hit it. Doesn’t matter if there is a mountain standing between the two of you.

One thing to keep in mind if you play her. Keep her away from your Warjacks! Her powers and your electrical systems don’t mix!

Commonly Asked Question on Units: Should I max out my units?
The answer to this is generally yes. Maybe this question is better answered if you look at it from the perspective of Why would I want to keep my units at minimum strength?

Common responses:
· If I take the minimum unit of X, I can add in a solo as well
· If I take the minimum unit of X, I can add another minimum unit of X
· I am using this unit as a throw away squad\speed bump
· I don’t see much of a difference between min and maxing them

While these can be valid reasons, think about this:
· The fewer models in a unit, the faster you have to take a command check
· If a solo is important enough that you need to include it, then it should have been a primary selection…not crammed in to fit the points
· Khador has very few selections for tarpit units…and for the same points as the tar pit you can select a full strength Khador or Mercenary unit (Great Bears, Aiyana & Holt, Alexia)

[Kuarnix]

I would definately not include Karchev and possibly pButcher on the list of warcasters that are easy to learn... Vlad and Sorscha are definately the two to start with, with the possible addition of Irusk.

[Gnoa]

I would definately not include Karchev and possibly pButcher on the list of warcasters that are easy to learn... Vlad and Sorscha are definately the two to start with, with the possible addition of Irusk.

To get full benefit from a thread like this, i am going to need some reasoning. You can clearly see why i put them on my top 3 list, but I would be interested in knowing why you think Sorcha is and Butcher\Karchev aren't.

[Tevesh]

I don't think Karchev should be on easy to learn. Yes, he appears very tough by being a Warjack and awesome sculpt but that is actually deceptive. His large base and very low DEF makes him very easy to hit, and therefore, hurt. This means you need to be quite experienced when playing with Karchev to not get the snot kicked out of you. In fact, I would put Karchev as one of our hardest Warcasters to use. Karchev may look like beatstick, but he doesn't play like one.

I would say that our top three easiest casters would be Sorscha, Vlad and Butcher. Sorscha should be included in this even if you don't believe that due to the nature of her having a Battle Box. She is also easy to learn because a lot of people believe she is to be used purely for her feat, she's one of the "Pop & Drop" casters where the objective is to kill your opponent with the feat.

I would argue that there are three types of Warcasters, similar to Magic's system of Control, Aggro and Combo. In Warmachine, Casters tend to be melee casters, ranged casters and board control. Melee is "Aggro," Ranged is "Combo" and Board is "Control" to continue the Magic metaphor.

Melee casters place buffs on our troops and expect to get in there. Vlad and Butcher are a good example. Ranged isn't really in Khador, as I can only think of Sorscha who just tries to set up the field to kill you. pKreoss and eCaine are better examples of Ranged casters, so I guess to say that Assassins might be the better category as it sounds cooler. Board casters attempt to wear you down by influencing the board, this is Khador's forte alongside melee. We've got Irusk, Old Witch, Karchev and Zerkova for these roles; they use their abilities/spells to wear down our opponents by changing the rules of the game. Irusk's Inhospitable Ground, for example, or Zerkova's ability to deny opponents their abilities.

But hey, that's how I'd organize this but I didn't write it. I'll be certain to add to the Consolidated Tactics thread. Also, good idea to have somewhere to point the new players on what to select when they begin their Khador collection.

So, perhaps split the three categories of casters into (as they sound the coolest this way, I guess):
Melee
Assassin
Tactician

[Avecrien]

I didn't want to say anything while you were still filling your posts out, but I have to agree that Karchev should not be on the list of easy/early casters. He requires strong knowledge of not only normal rules but special/obscure rules. Hells, he _IS_ an obscure rule. His playstyle is, as said above me, not intuitive to his appearance or stats. Non-intuitive models are bad things to start newbies off with.

I think Butcher is a safe starting caster in that he requires special attention to his size but no unusual knowledge pertaining to it and he does play intuitively while still offering versatility. He is also more forgiving than many of our other casters when it comes to newbie mistakes or slips.

I'd also offer that pIrusk is a good starting caster. His spells, while wide ranging, are not difficult to wrap one's mind around. Their intent and basic level strategies are there for you to trip over. He can support both jacks and infantry well enough for a new player to pick whatever models he wants and play with them without feeling gimped or lost. For a player who begins the game imagining the warcaster as the 'general' and not the 'main character' he may even be ideal.

[Ravnak]

Karchev definately should be.

This is easy to ***START PLAYING WITH*** not easy to ***MASTER***

Karchev is very easy to play your first games with. You don't need to worry much about focus allocation, nor much about positioning or tactics. You can just wade forwards, cast Rage, and start swinging blindly to great effect.


Its only once you start getting better that you can start learning tow tricks, when to do what, etc...

[General Nemo]

A fair write-up, and very well organized. Be sure to include things to look out for with each warcaster, such as Vlad's intense fear of being knocked down while under Blood Kings, etc. Sorscha1 would also be a good addition, as well.

[Tevesh]

I think that starting the game off should be optimally, instead of a round a bout fashion.

Just because Karchev is easy to start playing with might be harmful to the player later on. I'm going to use a Rock Band/Guitar Hero example, so I hope you can follow along. There's a technique of "Single Strumming" and "Double Strumming." Single Strums is when you hit the strum bar in only one direction, which is very easy to do. Double strumming is when you hit the strum bar from both ends, which is much harder to do. When you start out, you should really start double strumming, because by the time you get to the harder songs where you need to double strum to succeed, if you learned by single strumming, you won't be able to pass the song and the habit is ingrained into you that it's almost impossible to unlearn. This is my own personal Rock Band problem, I can't play the harder Expert difficulty songs because I only know how to Single Strum and the habit is far too ingrained to relearn to beat those songs.

Karchev, if taught as a beatstick, can cause an ingraining that will be harder to relearn. Karchev is one of my worst win-lose rates, and I think I only won one of my games because my opponent had a horrible match up against me (she was playing all archers in Legion, who had high accuracy but low pow). I think the game I won I had begun to have an inkling on how to play Karchev, but each game was a battle to understand why I got schooled repeatedly.

I also think that the list of "easy to learn" should have a Fighter, an Assassin and a Tactician. Butcher or Vlad for Fighter, Sorscha for Assassin and Irusk for Tactician. I'm leaning more on Vlad than Butcher because Vlad is so easy to learn that when someone asks "How do I play Vlad?" the sarcastic answers are actually the most accurate as well. Plus, the small base and high defensive stats makes Vlad one of the most forgiving Warcasters to play, quite possibly in the whole game. This will appeal to the newbie who plays the game to smash face, be sneaky or be a master general.

[General Nemo]

It is not like the people playing Karchev are children who are developing honest-to-goodness social behaviors. If they wish to keep playing Karchev and want to win, they will eventually adapt to new tactics. If they find other advanced warcasters interesting, then they will stop playing him or only break him out now and again.

[Gnoa]

A good friend told me that the holy trinity from Prime has yet to be beaten by any other book. That goes for not just Khador, but the other factions introduced in Prime.

I have hear you loud and clear on what you are saying about Sorcha and Karchev. I honestly wasn't thinking about his large base. However I want to thank Raknav for seeing my point.

Sorcha is an awesome caster, but she is not an easy caster. Although she is battle box, she is not an easy person to learn...especially against someone who has played WM before.

However Tevesh has an excellent writeup on Warcaster types, and i will include that in this tactics.

Please keep in mind this is the kind of thread to answer "I am new to Khador, what should i play?". Look at the last few times people posted and see how many people said Butcher or Karchev

[Tevesh]

True.

But shouldn't dollar amount also be important when telling newbies "what's good"? For example, pVlad is one of the cheaper Warcasters to buy and he is also good. If Karchev is as good, shouldn't we still recommend Vlad over Karchev because Karchev is many times more expensive?

That argument doesn't hold up as well against Warcasters unless you're comparing them to Karchev. But I do believe that the argument is plausible when directing people's choices for units. There should be a "budget" concern. For example, Great Bears are much cheaper than Demo Corps and serve similar purposes, so shouldn't they be listed?

Just spitballing ideas for how to develop this thread, as this sort of thing can make or break a new player. I know someone who quit WM at my LGS because of "poor" unit/warcaster selection, so it'd be nice to try and avoid that. I think they bought models that weren't very synergestic, like they wanted to use Warcaster X who works well with Unit X, but bought Unit Y instead.

[Gnoa]

True.

But shouldn't dollar amount also be important when telling newbies "what's good"? For example, pVlad is one of the cheaper Warcasters to buy and he is also good. If Karchev is as good, shouldn't we still recommend Vlad over Karchev because Karchev is many times more expensive?

That argument doesn't hold up as well against Warcasters unless you're comparing them to Karchev. But I do believe that the argument is plausible when directing people's choices for units. There should be a "budget" concern. For example, Great Bears are much cheaper than Demo Corps and serve similar purposes, so shouldn't they be listed?

Just spitballing ideas for how to develop this thread, as this sort of thing can make or break a new player. I know someone who quit WM at my LGS because of "poor" unit/warcaster selection, so it'd be nice to try and avoid that. I think they bought models that weren't very synergestic, like they wanted to use Warcaster X who works well with Unit X, but bought Unit Y instead.

Also a good points. I guess if i am treating this as a real starter thread, monetary options should be included. The hardest part of this thread, in my opinion, is going to be unit selection. I will need a good amount of feedback there as there are 101 opinions on the best.

I really appreciate the comments! Keep them coming!! I have a very tough skin and take no offense to being told i am wrong. I want our players to be the best, and that starts with getting them solid information!

[Tevesh]

I think Sorscha should be included in this simply because the Battle Box is one of the popular purchases/suggestions on where to start, so many players are going to be fielding Sorscha and might want to understand where she fits in that.

I think that Kayazy Assassins, as crazy as this sounds, are the best for newbies to play with. They are a cheap unit to buy monetarily, as they are 10 men plus 1 UA model against our IFP at 10 plus 2, or Winter Guard at crazy amounts (10 plus 2 UA models, plus Kovnik Joe, plus 3 Rocketeers and possibly Alexia which is a can of worms in of herself). Also, IFP usually require Brass Roding which might be a technical skill outside of their ability (if they're new to wargaming 'cause they're between 12 to 16 years of age or whatnot).

The Assassins are very mobile, especially with Kill Stroke. They are accurate and powerful, which appeals to the new players. They really benefit from Iron Flesh, which makes the newbie suddenly see synergy between casters (which could cause them to start looking for more synergy between different models they own). They have very good defensive stats, so they're pretty forgiveable that way as well.

[Avecrien]

Unit wise, I think we can all agree that everyone should have a unit of greasers, widowmakers, and grey lords.
You'll prolly want to link to threads devoted to our melee units so people can decide between the MoWs and the IFP or great bears.
We'll probably fight over the usefulness of our 6 and 7 point jacks but I think we can all still get behind Kodiaks. Drago, for people who stick with Vlad, is a sure thing. Beast and Behemoth seem to be safely supported by the community.

There should probably be early mention of jack marshals, in my opinion. Which to suggest first I'll leave to someone else, but I know I wouldn't want to have learned this game or this faction without them there at the beginning. I know it throws in an added dimension to focus management and battlegroups, so maybe some will disagree with me.

[Kuarnix]

To get full benefit from a thread like this, i am going to need some reasoning. You can clearly see why i put them on my top 3 list, but I would be interested in knowing why you think Sorcha is and Butcher\Karchev aren't.

Sorry for the short reply, I was posting from a mobile device...

Basically, like others have said, playing Karchev requires a good deal of familiarity with the game. Not only do you need to have your rules down cold because of how many he breaks, but you need to have good distance estimating skills, good estimation of how much damage you can do and good estimation of what damage you can take without being screwed for next turn. This is all because he'll spend most of his time within ~10" of enemy models, if not closer. You also need to have an understanding of how to capitalize on any opening you're offered, and (a major concern) how to deal with Eiryss! Nothing is going to make a new player walk away from the game then spending the entire game disruptor bolted, which can and will happen.

I have a similar feeling with Butcher. He's only somewhat hard to hide due to his base size, but it's definitely achievable. I think in mkII he's going to be a bit easier to play than in mkI, but I haven't tried him yet. In mkI he was always more of a finesse caster than both Vlad and Sorscha, and generally preformed better in an army with a strong ranged component than a melee one. The reason he's tougher to play is basically because he doesn't have any tricks - he just beats face. I think he'd be okay to start with, but when you're running against any of the other very common Prime 'casters, you really need to know what you're doing with your army to do well with Butcher. Vlad and Sorscha both have incredible threat ranges, and can boost their model's movement abilities and can grant pathfinder, which is HUGE. Butcher does nothing to increase the threat range of his army, only the damage output (plus Iron Flesh as a defensive buff). His threat range is mediocre too - that said, if you end your activation within 10" of The Butcher, you live only at his discretion. So he's trying to use his army to get the enemy within 10" of him, or using his damage increasing capabilities to make his units hit super hard within their normal threat. There really are no simple 'tricks' that can hand you the game like with Sorscha or Vlad. That's why they make great 'casters for beginners - they're not unmanageably awesome, but they are very strong and don't require a lot of help to be amazing. They use very simple and effective combos.

[Gnoa]

Unit wise, I think we can all agree that everyone should have a unit of greasers, widowmakers, and grey lords.

I agree with everything except the Grey Lords. I don't think they are the easiest unit for a beginner to learn. Does anyone else they think they are a good first purchase?

[xbanditsx]

I'd say Greylords are a good second round purchase for a new player. They have several different things they can do in a given situation which can be a little overwhelming when you're also trying to figure out what to do with your 'caster.

Three units I think are great for beginners are the Kodiak, Widowmakers, and the Manhunter.

All three have a few interesting rules but nothing over the top, have pretty obvious roles in the army, and work well without a lot of support or clever thinking.

I'd also like to throw my vote behind having Sorscha in the list of early 'casters because she's in the box and a lot of beginners will start off with that. Whether or not she SHOULD be a beginner 'caster almost doesn't matter - lots of new players WILL have her as their first 'caster.

[Appolus]

Yeah, Sorscha is definitely going to be in most Khador collections. More's the pity, I suppose, because I have found eSorscha to be about 10 times easier and more forgiving to use. While her feat isn't as deadly an assassination tool, it is still up there. Putting Beast on a warcaster affected by it has often led to Mr. 09 dealing 2-3 times the health said caster has in one hit.

But I digress. Mechanics, and either of our staple infantry units (WG or IFP) are pretty essential for new players, I would think. Often, you just need bodies on the table, and one of these two are excellent for filling that need.

[Avecrien]

I'd recommend against WG for new players, and IFP for new modellers. Of course I think either MoW are solid investments and I know that's not likely to be the concensus. I'm not sure if there can be a strong concensus on our melee infantry for beginners.
Links to strats and thoughts on each seems the best route to me. But I might be a minority on this one.

Get a Kodiak!

[Appolus]

They may be solid investments, but neither of them are for beginning modelers either. Getting them together is way more demanding than a brass rod replacement.

[Avecrien]

You're right. I forgot people hate assembling MoW too. If they dont come in plastic soon I'ma have to to put up an easy walkthrough on slapping them together.

[Mitch]

Yeah, Sorscha is definitely going to be in most Khador collections. More's the pity, I suppose, because I have found eSorscha to be about 10 times easier and more forgiving to use. While her feat isn't as deadly an assassination tool, it is still up there.

Thats funny actually, I used eSorcha on the second game I ever played, and thought she was much better and WAY easier to used than her prime version. I honestly think eSorcha is the easiest to learn on, just my personal experience.

Manhunters are pretty easy to get a grip on. And the juggernaut is quite easy as well due to not having any special rules or abilites (other than crit freeze)

[Kuarnix]

I agree with everything except the Grey Lords. I don't think they are the easiest unit for a beginner to learn. Does anyone else they think they are a good first purchase?

I think they're good, but widowmakers might be a better early buy. What I generally recommend after the battlebox is widowmakers, greylords, a manhunter, and either IFP or winterguard. The winterguard are easier on the wallet and are more flexible, with the room for natural subsequent purchases in the form of UA, WA, and Grigovich. The IFP are generally easier to get more milage out of though - point and smash. Assuming the winterguard or IFP are a full unit, it comes to a bit less than 30 points.

[petetsm]

I think it would be worth mentioning Karchev, and give some minor tips so that new players dont shoot themselves in the foot. I say this because Karchev was the reason I got in to Khador, even one of the reasons I started playing WM, and I know I'm not the only one. I have seen at least 2-3 threads on this board who have said the same thing, and seeing as forums only represent a subset of all players we can assume there are plenty more. I played only Karchev for the first couple months I played the game. While I like to think that I didnt develop any "bad habits", a few tips and maybe a word of caution couldn't hurt.

I know when I started playing I found these boards and immediately looked up all the threads I could on Big K. I was a little disheartened since it seemed like he was an underperformer (not knowing how much DOOM are common on these forums). Some straight comments and tips would do well to help set players like this on the right path.

[saxondog]

I agree with everything except the Grey Lords. I don't think they are the easiest unit for a beginner to learn. Does anyone else they think they are a good first purchase?

I don't hesitate to suggest GL as an early purchase. Three basic things they can do doesn't seem too difficult. Add them to a Battlebox and they do up the complexity, but everything you add in this game basically does. As a stepping off point from the BB they are an excellent place to start.

SFK

[Tevesh]

I'm against Greylords as an early buy. Everyone eventually does buy the Greylords, but it seems that the faction is split on whether Greylords are good or not for 4 points. Also, they do have a lot of complex abilities. The benefits of Clouds is not obvious at first, as well as Sprays being a little complicated (which is another reason to shy away from WG).

I did pick them up on my second round of models, mostly because of the lack of Magic in Mark I that made me go "How do I deal with these guys?" i.e. Vilmon, Incorporeal, etc. Mark II is much more forgiving, so buying Greylords for Magic Shotguns is less necessary.

I also do agree with Widowmakers being a common choice, as they're a very simple unit that is also very deep.

It's funny. We normally recommend IFP/WG off hand whenever someone posts "I'm new to Khador, what do I buy?" and yet we're shying away from that with this and are suggesting Kayazy's. I think IFP/WG should be listed, simply as a cautionary tale, to newbies because people ARE going to suggest them.

WG is expensive and rules complex, IFP are complicated models to assemble and transport. If the person is used to modelling but not wargaming, they'll be drawn to IFP. Someone who is clueless about modelling but is comes from a strategy background (Magic, L5R, HeroClix, Mage Knight, D&D) can appreciate WG.

Should we mention Merc Solos? Khador does receive a generous amount, and people who fixate on the Widowmakers do pick up Kell (as I did - "a Sniper Solo? SO COOL!"). Gorman seems to go hand-in-hand with AKs, and Eiryss is ubiquitous with this game (but not so much now, interestingly enough).

[saxondog]

I'm against Greylords as an early buy. Everyone eventually does buy the Greylords, but it seems that the faction is split on whether Greylords are good or not for 4 points. Also, they do have a lot of complex abilities. The benefits of Clouds is not obvious at first, as well as Sprays being a little complicated (which is another reason to shy away from WG).

I also do agree with Widowmakers being a common choice, as they're a very simple unit that is also very deep.

I guess I respectively agree and disagree at the same time. GL's only have three magic powers in a three man unit. In many games big and small using combo's of the three are useful. As an addition to a BB game a new player should be able to experiment and I hope be able to quickly understand what possibilities open up to them. Learning to use all three powers early on can only help a players later game development. 4 pts for the unit IS OVERCOSTED but GL's still fill a lot of different needs. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and field them anyway.
Widowmakers, from a tactical tabletop sense, are a good choice. Just really not a lot of learning involved here. In the smaller games 15-25pt games, most times specific counters are not yet in your opponents lists, all your really learning is "one shot one kill". Simple and effective, yes. An ability that teaches a new player how to stack effects, no.

SFK

[Gnoa]

This is the stance I think i am taking on Gray Lords and Widowmakers. I am including Widowmakers as a first round pick, and adding Grey Lord as a second. For me, they were also a second round pick and I don't think they are as straight forward as the Widowmakers.

They have great utility spells, all which require you to get close...ie charge close to the enemy. If you don't pull off an attack well you just lost four points worth of Gray Lords.

Widowmakers on the other hand are a lot more user friendly. Sniper is their most complex rule, and their role is fairly easy to understand. Most people understand what a sniper is supposed to do.

As for Mercs, i plan to include a couple. Mainly Eiryss the Mage Hunter and Ogrun Bokur.I think Alexia is a good choice, but i believe you need a full 20 undead and at least 2 Thralls to play her properly. She is a little too expensive for beginners.

[Tevesh]

Commonly Asked Question on Units: Should I max out my units?

Always.

Answered the question for you!

Also, Alexia shouldn't be mentioned to any newbies. She's expensive monetarily, she's a huge time sink due to the amount of "book keeping," she's another time sink due to her continually changing squad size (0-20!), the issues on successfully fielding such a squad, and she's a pretty complicated model due to being a "meta-choice". A newbie's not going to understand that you need to build your lists with Alexia in mind, because you could be facing a jack heavy list and she'll appear to be crap and they'll not understand why.

I remember newbs in Magic having a tough time remembering their life total (which starts at 20 and usually only goes down), Alexia is even crazier by having a continually shifting number of guys on the field and guys in reserve (that total up to 20, which is why I thought of Magic).

Edit:
I noticed for Eiryss you don't mention her best ability, which is the Disruptor Bolt's ability to disrupt Warcasters. If you are hit by a Disruptor Bolt loses focus and doesn't get it back next round.

[CanadianMetalFan]

bump to keep it on page 1

[Musketeer]

I don't know why Both Jack Marshalls would love Kodiaks. Granted, the Kovnik can drive to boost initial attacks and use his psuedo marshal focus to charge but the Kholdun Lord can assign only ONE focus to ONE Jack as well as his JM ability.

Now if the Jack is going to run either can do that for any Jack utilizing their JM ability so free run on a Kodiak means little.

Now if the Kovnik shines it is with the Berserker. Here is why.
Free charge which saves your JM ability for later.
Drive will boost the two initial attacks.
JM ability can boost the head but chain attack.

NOTE: Chain Attacks are not Initial Attacks. For that reason the Kovnik's drive does not boost it.

[Esper]

I would not recommend Kayazy Assassins as an initial purchase.

Winterguard may have more complex rules, but a new player won't be a new player for long and will be looking for more tactical options than just running Kayazy forward to tar pit the board. I think they'll get much more long term use out of a toolbox unit of WG + toys than they will out of Kayazys which are much less flexible in utility.

[i_like_tool]

I'm writing a thread to, hopefully, be stickied with links to all the good information we have. Are you opposed to me flat out ripping most of this/linking it?

Credit is given where due of course

[Musketeer]

I agree on the WG vs KA subject that WinterGuard are a better choice for a new player. I may not like them but they are more versatile than the assassins and can be built upon easier.

[Itchynipple]

As a new player to not only Khador but Warmachine in general, this is the kind of thread I can actually appreciate.

I purchased the battlebox last week and I am working to get it assembled and ready for the table. My plan is to get in as many games as I can with just those models so that I can get a general feel for the game mechanics and the flow.

Eventually however, I am going to need reinforcements and this is the kind of discussion that is supremely helpful to new players once the time comes to grow the army. It is being made very clear that some models are better suited to new players, both tactically and financially, than others. It helps even more that there is a general consensus in that regard.

Thanks to you all for being willing to help the new folks out.

[CanadianMetalFan]

since the most recent posts are about winter guard,

according to forwardkommander's layout for wg, you can have a max of 10 in 1 squad of wg + add-on units like a rocketeer

my question is , how do the extra units for wg come packaged? single blisters (meaning i would need 4 blisters to fill out my current 6 man squad) or is there another box?

would the standard bearer model contribute to filling out the unit? or is that an add-on unit like the rocketeer?

[Avecrien]

Blisters of infantry are two models per pack, I believe. Anything special like UAs and WAs do not count towards filling a unit to it's max number of models.

Saying Kayazy are just running forward to tarpit is crazy talk.

[i_like_tool]

I am very surprised to not see Iron Fang Pikemen + UA or Winter Guard as must have units

Winter Guard are relatively inexpensive cash wise and handy in a lot of list

Iron Fang Pikemen, while more expensive cash wise, have never let me down. Ever. They aren't terribly difficult to grasp how to use and perform their job admirably well constantly