upkeep spells and ekaya

[PhonelessInAtl]

hey guys, i admit im still new to this, so if im just missing or misreading something please let me know. otherwise i have some questions about upkeep, specifically how some of ekayas spells would work under those rules.

so a model can only have one upkeep spell on it from each side at a time, how would that affect dog pile or shadow pack who each affect everyone in my battlegroup? if i have forced evolution cast on a warpwolf, and then i cast dog pile, would it replace forced evolution whether i want it to or not? i suppose i could make sure i always cast dog pile/ shadow pack before forced evolution, but if i do, would the forced evolution replace the effect on just the unit i put it on, or would it cancel out the effect for my entire battlegroup?

and speaking of dog pile, why is it an offensive spell, and why does it have a range? would i have to roll against someones defense? does it affect units in my battlegroup as long as theyre in range, or would the effect stay on the units that are in that range when i cast it?

...i am so confused. im probably just not finding the right lines in the rulebook, but any help is appreciated

[TheUnknownMercenary]

1. Dog Pile targets an enemy model, that is why it is an offensive spell. So you target an enemy model and check to see if the enemy model is in range of the spell and then make an attack roll and if the roll equals or exceeds the enemy model's DEF then the spell hit and takes effect. It allows warbeasts in Epic Kaya's battlegroup to charge or slam the target enemy model without being forced and regardless of Line of Sight. So Dog Pile is on the enemy model and is upkept on that enemy model.
2. Forced Evolution targets a friendly living faction warbeast.
3. Shadow Pack is a self spell, which means it can only target Epic Kaya.
4. All thress of these upkeep spells are on three different models, so the only way for these spells to be replaced is if you recast one of the spells on a different model.
5. Remember models can have the following amounts of spells and animii on them at any time:
A. One friendly upkeep spell
B. One enemy upkeep spell
C. One friendly animus
D. Unlimited amount of non-upkeep friendly spells
E. Unlimited amount of non-upkeep enemy spells
F. Unlimited amount of enemy animii

Also I noticed your mentioned this:

does it affect units in my battlegroup as long as theyre in range

A battlegroup only includes the warlock/warcaster and their warbeasts/warjacks. Battlegroup does not mean your entire army.

[PhonelessInAtl]

1. Dog Pile targets an enemy model, that is why it is an offensive spell. So you target an enemy model and check to see if the enemy model is in range of the spell and then make an attack roll and if the roll equals or exceeds the enemy model's DEF then the spell hit and takes effect. It allows warbeasts in Epic Kaya's battlegroup to charge or slam the target enemy model without being forced and regardless of Line of Sight. So Dog Pile is on the enemy model and is upkept on that enemy model.
2. Forced Evolution targets a friendly living faction warbeast.
3. Shadow Pack is a self spell, which means it can only target Epic Kaya.
4. All thress of these upkeep spells are on three different models, so the only way for these spells to be replaced is if you recast one of the spells on a different model.
5. Remember models can have the following amounts of spells and animii on them at any time:
A. One friendly upkeep spell
B. One enemy upkeep spell
C. One friendly animus
D. Unlimited amount of non-upkeep friendly spells
E. Unlimited amount of non-upkeep enemy spells
F. Unlimited amount of enemy animii

Also I noticed your mentioned this:

A battlegroup only includes the warlock/warcaster and their warbeasts/warjacks. Battlegroup does not mean your entire army.

1. bad reading on my part, thanks
2. yea
3. since shes the target it works more like youre giving her another ability, instead of her being the source of my battlegroups new ability, makes sense.
4. aaaaah, okay

and i am aware that a battlegroup would only include my beasts, but i said 'unit' out habit as a catch all term, sorry
well, thank you very much, i think that cleared everything up. i figured the devil was in the details, but needed someone else to put them in perspective

[Sinus]

*edit*

Yes, I do type quite slow.

[...]

so a model can only have one upkeep spell on it from each side at a time, how would that affect dog pile or shadow pack who each affect everyone in my battlegroup? if i have forced evolution cast on a warpwolf, and then i cast dog pile, would it replace forced evolution whether i want it to or not? i suppose i could make sure i always cast dog pile/ shadow pack before forced evolution, but if i do, would the forced evolution replace the effect on just the unit i put it on, or would it cancel out the effect for my entire battlegroup?

[...]

I don't really see any possible conflicts arising from eKaya's spell list:

- Dog pile is an offensive upkeep cast on a single enemy model
- Forced evolution is an upkeep cast on one of your living warbeasts
- Muzzle is an offensive spell cast on a single enemy warbeast but not an upkeep
- Shadow Pack is an upkeep cast on Kaya herself

So each of the spells that affects your battlegroup targets only a single model. That single model is where the restrictions for upkeeps apply.

[...]

and speaking of dog pile, why is it an offensive spell, and why does it have a range? would i have to roll against someones defense? does it affect units in my battlegroup as long as theyre in range, or would the effect stay on the units that are in that range when i cast it?

[...]

Dog Pile targets a single enemy model and is an offensive spell. So yes, you do have to roll against that targets defense for it to be affected and you need it to be within range of Kaya, Laris (channeling) or a model with geomancy. Also it only enables the Warbeasts in your battlegroup to gain the spells advantages when performing an action against the target model. Units are not part of your battlegroup so they neither get an advantage from Dog pile nor from Shadow Pack.

[PhonelessInAtl]

haha, i appreciate the effort

yea, my problem was misunderstanding the target of each spell (how hard is reading, amiright!?) but i got it now

[CECILOFS]

Slightly off-topic points: Dogpile is an upkeep spells and you can upkeep spells outside of your control area. So if you can move Kaya up, cast dogpile on their caster and teleport back to Laris, then you can upkeep it all game to really control where their caster can and can't move.

Usually I just use it to get a Feral through a forest/building/extra 2" to own a Jack or caster though

Also spells that remove spell effects will only shut down Shadow Pack if they can affect Kaya with the spell. So say your Feral was in range of Purification but Kaya wasn't, then the Feral would still retain Stealth.

And yes, Shadow Pack will only affect your battlegroup if they stay within her control range.