Why do all the new mercs hate us?

[jonconcarne]

THESE DONT!!!!!!!!

and we have a ranged option

Nice models. I dunno if I'll field them myself, but they look like they provide some good ranged that we haven't had before. *shrug* We'll see when we get the rules though. Maybe I'll get them after I get my warwitch sirens, corruptor, bane thrall ua, and bloodwitches, lol.

[chrisBatson]

You could have all the mercs work for us and I still wouldn't take but only the 2 or 3 solo's that I do now.

[yankeefan]

idk if they have CRA and we can stealth them ill take them in a heart beat.

[PG_mellchia]

idk if they have CRA and we can stealth them ill take them in a heart beat.

Don't forget Ghost Walk as well and all the debuffs we can sling out.

It's not an always case, but I'm glad to have them if I want to mix things up.

[PG_and Riot!]

It's not an always case, but I'm glad to have them if I want to mix things up.

Without a doubt. As long as they are RNG 10 with CRA I will be picking them up.

[D.Vader]

I'm interested in the sound of suppressing fire.

[PG_LawofThirds]

I would take a certain elven wench if I could. I would also love to take steinhammer + a brace of bunnies.

[Ghyrrshyld]

I think it worked for Goreshade's benefit that Eiryss lived, if only to weaken the might of the Khador military.

No.

Goreshade mobilized the Elves for another reason. I think it was to weaken/distract them so he can go kill their other god and free the elven people.

Maybe talk Toruk into eating her.

[blakeh1]

Without a doubt. As long as they are RNG 10 with CRA I will be picking them up.

I'm hoping for RNG 12 POW 10. That is the sweet spot I think

[Ghyrrshyld]

I'm hoping for RNG 12 POW 10. That is the sweet spot I think

We have access to Nyss hunters if CRA is all we want.

In fact, I have to think we have a second or third criteria, as I have yet to see a Cryx list with Nyss in them.

What is it? Utility? Staying Power? Because the Nyss have Hunter and Weaponmaster, so they have one, but not the other.

Cost? is that it? They are a pretty pricy unit at 10 points after all.

[DemonCalibre]

I think it's two things, Expense.

I know my Nyss don't hit the table very frequently, because as a rule I dislike 10 point units, particularly at low points, keeping them alive, and forcing them to work becomes the whole goal of your army when they are eatting 10-30% of all your points. Where as 5 point units, are disposable and cheap enough for redudancy

Second, and this comes up a great deal with my Khador(Less so with Cryx).

I play a faction to play the faction, not to have a huge piece of my army, be merc, so I always tend to reach for in faction before Merc, in general. This doesn't mean I hate mercs, or that I don't use them it just means, I tend to look in faction before out of faction.

[Ghyrrshyld]

And when there is no in faction equivalent do you just make do without, or what?

Do solos get exceptions? I know they do for me.

[DemonCalibre]

Me personally, I generally just do without, most factions are designed so they can still hack it without Mercs to bandaid weaknesses.

Solos get an exception because they are generally a small portion of your force, and they can fill in a particular niche`. I will generally pick up a merc solo to add a little more of a particular thing(Board control, Tech, or Shooting generally), that I can't slot with a faction solo because they are either not availible or they are too expensive.

An example is Orin Midwinter, He provides some ranged threat in Lightning Stroke, and some Tech with Null Magic, He hits the table, because Cryx really don't have anything in slot(Pistol Wraith being 3), So he gets slotted into lists, where I can't afford the pistol wraith, or I feel it needs null magic.

[PG_Cygnarforever120x]

You guys have the deathjack. You don't need mercs.

[BilesyBelcher]

And for our necromantic powers

[khylis]

What's with our sudden delving into the powers of thread necromancy?

I'm actually pretty fine with the amount of Mercs that we're allowed - the only two I find mildly annoying that I can't include are Alexia Ciannor and Eiryss since they're somewhat signature characters in terms of their celebrity.

[Agrian]

Not getting Alexia make sense fluff wise, Eiryss? I guess she doesn't like how we pay people.

[Silopolis]

The ones I'm fairly miffed about are Eiryss, because she's so frickin' powerful and ubiquitous; Aiyanna and Holt for the same reason, and ones like Wyyshnyylor or whatever his name is, because he's a pretty wicked warcaster attachment that we don't have anything like in our Faction. I get why they don't work for Cryx in the fluff, but they give other Factions tools we can't use, or even match, with what we can access.

[BigK42]

Wow, necro.... This thread is talking about mercs that were added in mkii. A new thread would have avoided some inevitable confusion...

[Agrian]

The ones I'm fairly miffed about are Eiryss, because she's so frickin' powerful and ubiquitous; Aiyanna and Holt for the same reason, and ones like Wyyshnyylor or whatever his name is, because he's a pretty wicked warcaster attachment that we don't have anything like in our Faction. I get why they don't work for Cryx in the fluff, but they give other Factions tools we can't use, or even match, with what we can access.

Skarlock and WSC? The only thing we can't do is the stop node/allocation and focus strip. While it is kinda >.< that we can't use something the other 4 factions can it obviously is not hurting us in the long haul, it is more just nails on the chalk board.

[Silopolis]

People always bring up the Skarlock when someone mentions warcaster attachments. Skarlock's a good one, sure, but there's a lot of things other attachments do (extend STRL range, free upkeeps, extend spell range, discount focus, etc.) that Skarlocks don't do. There have been a lot of times when I didn't bring a Skarlock because my caster didn't have great spells that it could cast, but when I would have loved something like a Squire boosting my CTRL or giving me additional Focus each round. Not necessarily because it would make us more powerful, but because it gives us more options for building lists, which to me means more fun playing the faction over time.

[Agrian]

Part of what gives factions flavor are the differences, I am thankful the game is not made of cookie cutter forces with just alternating colors of paint on armor and two fluff rules to seperate a force. I am sure Khador would love to have the Piper to add to the WGI Death Star but they can not and really their war caster attachment is the one I look at and am like "man poor dog". Skarlocks are amazing, they're like an arc node with 3 free focus inside. Sure a Squire has 3 focus in it but it is one a turn, skarlock is 3 a turn for dedicated casting and most of our casters have something to juggle or recast a turn. +2 Ctrl range is boss and pro for feats to be sure, skarlock is ctrl rnage+spell rng reach extensin though. It is all of how you look at it. Would it be nice to have two options for a caster atchment? Hell yes, but it is not there, who knows in time maybe we will get a floating etheral skull that whispers arcane secrets for +2 ctrl rng and upkeeps a spell for free... I think I would still take a skarlock.

[Silopolis]

You're not seeing my argument, and I had this same argument a million times when Legends came out: The Skarlock is awesome, but that doesn't mean that more options wouldn't be fun to have, and it sucks on a certain level to miss out on a shiny new toy because we're expected to be happy with the old one we got years ago.

Skarlock's great, but I don't remember the last time I saw a Cygnar list without a Squire or a Khador list without a War Dog. I only bring the Skarlock when my caster has something like Ghost Walk or Death Ward that he can cast without getting himself killed the next round.

Every merc we don't get access to is an option we don't have. We have a lot of great, competitive, awesome, fun in-faction options, and a few great mercs, but it would be awesome to have a few more.

It doesn't mean the game is broken or that PP is lame. It means we have fewer fun alternate options, and that's it.

[Chad]

This has come up before. Unfortunately it's not likely to be re-balanced any time soon.

The Fluff /= ruless stuff gets over applied - fluff can influence rules, to be sure. It is the basis for 'undead' and 'tough' and other things. It's why our models often have terror. It is not true as a blanket statement. Where it is true is when someone applies the fluff as written then attempts to reconcile them with the rules as they are already established. Why doesn't Obliteration leave an area of rough terrain because fluff /= rules. Why doesn't Rhyas the Ninja themed warcaster have Pathfinder? Because fluff /= rules. The truth value of this varies massively by the context in which it is invoked.

As to the Cryx merc issue. I've long stressed that there is a core imbalance that exists in the quantity of model selections. No, we don't need the same mercs as everybody, and no I don't want the piper or Alexia or Eiryss. But I do want a rough equality on the number of options I have available.

Think of it like this. What if, in an expansion, they gave each faction but one 15 new models/units, but only gave Cygnar 10. You'd hear an outcry from all the players of the other factions. That, in a sense, has been what has happened to Cryx (and Everblight, my other faction) in every expansion, even back in the MK 1 days.

If, when I'm building my army I have my faction and the 33 mercs that will work for me, my opponent, a Cygnar player has his faction models and 57 mercs, you're getting into the realm of real disparity.

[AshenFang]

I like that we don't get many mercs. When people are all. "Cryx are OP!" ..we can say "It's balanced by our lack of merc options."

[Silopolis]

I like that we don't get many mercs. When people are all. "Cryx are OP!" ..we can say "It's balanced by our lack of merc options."

My answer to that remains, "It's balanced by everyone else being OP, as well."

[Crazy Uncle Doug]

Speaking as a Khador player, yes, we do get a lot of mercs. Khador is number 2 in merc availability. (Cygnar number 1. Protectorate 3. With Retribution down there competing with Cryx for bottom, I suspect.) That said, even though I have a number of Merc models, they rarely see use. In a lot of cases, we have to weigh the usefulness of a model versus its redundancy within our faction options. In general this means we have a few go-to solos and a couple interesting units we field. Even then, they don't always hit the table.

I'm seriously rambling now and it's been too early for any Scotch, so I guess my point is: You're not missing a lot. Sure, everyone likes to field eEiryss, but my Koldun Lords, Spriggans and I are on a mission to get them to stop. I believe you have somewhat decent counters to her as well. There's a few other models and units I like to field occasionally, but again that's 2-10 points that are not being used on my favorite Khador units and solos. Valachev does add new and interesting options, but he adds 2 points on top of that.

I'm sure that's small comfort, but it's all I got. Also, you get Wrong Eye and Snapjaw. I'm infinitely jealous that you can field a talking Croc in a top hat.

[BigK42]

Sometimes I feel like the mercs are a trap. Seems like a lot of the 'competitive' lists in other factions start with some combination of eiryss, gorman, A+H, and piper. Add wishnailer to that now. That's a lot of points spent on utility models.

[Aggy]

I have descided that once I am done collecting my cryx army, I will start a Merc army for a change of pace. Cryx and Mercs are the only factions I like, the rest are meh. As far as there not being many mercs available for Cryx armies, I am of the mind set that we really do not need them much. I am happy for the Merc models we do get. Though I would enjoy a nice ranged unit of rifleman for my army.

[Crazy Uncle Doug]

Sometimes I feel like the mercs are a trap. Seems like a lot of the 'competitive' lists in other factions start with some combination of eiryss, gorman, A+H, and piper. Add wishnailer to that now. That's a lot of points spent on utility models.

Exactly. For that much, I could field a full unit, plus UA and maybe WA depending on what I field. Moreover, at least in my faction, we have a number of Faction only buffs. Valachev mitigates some of that, but again that's 2 more points and he's attached to a single unit.* Granted, I can only speak of my own experience. Maybe Cygnar players use Mercs a lot more because their own units smell or something.

*Okay, so I do like fielding Herne & Arquebus Jonne, Valachev and eIrusk. As one Cryx player declared, "that's bull----!" As I replied, "Yes, but it's awesome bull----."

[BigK42]

Exactly. For that much, I could field a full unit, plus UA and maybe WA depending on what I field. Moreover, at least in my faction, we have a number of Faction only buffs. Valachev mitigates some of that, but again that's 2 more points and he's attached to a single unit.* Granted, I can only speak of my own experience. Maybe Cygnar players use Mercs a lot more because their own units smell or something.

*Okay, so I do like fielding Herne & Arquebus Jonne, Valachev and eIrusk. As one Cryx player declared, "that's bull----!" As I replied, "Yes, but it's awesome bull----."

Ouch.... Yeah that's rough. Especially if you're using Cryx infantry spam.