Why do all the new mercs hate us?

[Master Hatter]

I realized that that is the biggest thing I hated about changing to MKII was the lack of NEW models coming out as the rules are being redesigned. So, Ive been getting excited about MKII now that models coming down the pipeline, BUT...

We only get a jack and a solo to ogle over, but the jack is JUST an arcnode,
and the solo has no pic yet.

AND EVERYONE OF THE PLETHORA OF MERCS DON'T WORK FOR US

Where is the Cryx love?
Did are coin loss all its spending power?
Did cryx's economy collapse in the financial melt down too?
Do we have to go back in time to the days of "Hey, gorman, you want to play with us? No one else will"
Do all the merc have to have guns, and can we never have a gun merc?
Have we become so vile that the living will no longer trust us?

No, that cant be it. I mean, we signed that "hey, stop killing us for our immortal souls" pact in MKII, so I don't see the problem. I think we even apologized. (No, we didn't who am I kidding. I won a lot of games that way and I'm not sorry)

All I want is one of the new IK mercs to be on our side (other then Jhureen Hecatha), just one merc who is not afrade to get his hans dirty (other then Draegyn), just one merc who is a indescribable horror(other then the Boneswarm), just one merc with the balls to steal someones heart and give serve it up to me one a stolen silver platter (other then Gulgrenvogulugken).

Well, hell. I just want them all really badly.

[Szugi]

It is true that we don't get much mercs... but it may be due to the fact that some mercs have their reservations about dealing with the undead... They seem to understand coin quite well, and Cryx can offer a lot of coins I bet - its just that some Mercs aren't all so desperate and / or ruthless to deal with a bunch of zombies and ghosts for money... But, it doesn't matter. They don't work for us? Fine. We will [eventually] make them into a MC Thrall... or a Bile Thrall [no, they shouldn't be made into a thrall warrior... that would be to nice.] OF course... if we get there before Alexia Ciannor does... Perahps they would make a nic shooting merc looking for death like Gudrun does? That would help...

[Lee T]

There's no good (game based) answers to that plight.

Merc's availability can't be part of the game balance because that would mean that a faction with access to a lot of mercs would be at a disadvantage not using them.

Merc's personal balance are the only credible reasons to keep a faction from having them (mercs A + Faction's B = broken combo) but that doesn't prevent building mercs for all factions from the get go.

The "funny" thing is that it's one of those very "rule technical" topic where the answer is very often "fluff".

As a big fan of symmetrical design this irks to no end. On the other hand it saves me money and it doesn't appear to imbalance the game yet. So I've made my peace knowing that this particular aspect of the game will never satisfy me (if it hasn't changed with MK 2 I don't see it changing ever).

[Hellspawn]

Where is the Cryx love?
Have we become so vile that the living will no longer trust us?

We eat them, and they know it. Toruk knows why the broaken coast pirates put up with our crap. But if it makes you feel any better, you could always pretend that any of your given thralls were said mercs in a more self-animated life. If that doesn't float ya', do what I do. Punish them for thier lack of vision.

[serialli]

As a big fan of symmetrical design this irks to no end. On the other hand it saves me money and it doesn't appear to imbalance the game yet. So I've made my peace knowing that this particular aspect of the game will never satisfy me (if it hasn't changed with MK 2 I don't see it changing ever).

Hi,

What do you mean by symmetrical? Are you saying that you would prefer it if all factions were more similar?

I like the fact that Cryx aren't allowed mercs, it's our thing.

[Sabin]

They need to be desperate for the money, Cryx kills them for souls/undead more often then not. Plus, some of them have specific reasons, Kell wont work for us because he stole something from us (I think it was the sword Alexia carries) which is the reason Alexia wont work for us as Cryx want it back. Anyone Ordic (devildogs, the piper) also has a deep hatred for the Cryxian pirates and reavers that raid and terrorise them which is why it's a shock that Bart works for us.

[Decade]

For the elf witch, it makes sense, seeing as one of our generals is trying to kill the god she's trying to save, and the whole thing with another dragon messing up a good portion of their civilization. The nyss work for use strictly because we're the best chance they have at taking down Ethrunbahl and "avenging" their people. Doesn't help that 'Shade still want's to shove Voass deep into Nysor's skull, but desperate times.

As a player, I do kinda dislike we're denied extra options, but from a fluff side, it makes perfect sense, so I actually applaud PP for actually keeping the game more or less matching the fluff (though several other threads would disagree with me on that one). Its refreshing to see a game company more than less stick with the fluff they create for the game rather than ignore it when convenient (most of the time).

[Rave0183]

On a sidenote i would LOVE to have boneswarm get some stats and work for us.

[Hellspawn]

As a player, I do kinda dislike we're denied extra options, but from a fluff side, it makes perfect sense, so I actually applaud PP for actually keeping the game more or less matching the fluff (though several other threads would disagree with me on that one).

True that, but it's frustrating as hell when your faction gets 5 new options per release, where as everyone else gets 9. One way to look at it is that Cryx is the most economic faction to run, the other involves getting hosed. Perhaps Cryx should get more faction models per release.
Take it with good humor.We chose this faction for other reasons than merc support.

[Sabin]

If you actually go through all of the mercs that work for us (bearing in mind a lot of the pirates solos do, even though the typo says they don't) you will find that as many work for Cryx as Menoth practically. There are also plenty of solos that won't work for Cygnar (Orin, Saxon, Kell) and solos that won't work for Khador (Piper, Lanyssa, Anastasia). I play Mercenaries as well as Cryx and occasionally I field Mercs with my Cryx force and I never feel hard done by that I cant field a couple of jack marshalls, Eiyriss, Aiyana and holt and the Piper.

[n0signal]

IMO, let the other factions have more Mercs. But I think that Cryx should get more Allied units (some decent ones this time) and solos; maybe even some lesser Warlocks or Warcasters. Basically, there's still not a contract that uses Cryx allies, I think it would be good to give us more models that other factions can not use but can still be used outside Cryx in a new contract.

[Typhael]

For the elf witch, it makes sense, seeing as one of our generals is trying to kill the god she's trying to save, and the whole thing with another dragon messing up a good portion of their civilization. The nyss work for use strictly because we're the best chance they have at taking down Ethrunbahl and "avenging" their people. Doesn't help that 'Shade still want's to shove Voass deep into Nysor's skull, but desperate times.

So hey, how's about that Khador? Under siege by the Retribution for having stolen their god? They're totally cool with giving Eiryss more work, right? Knowing that she's an elf, and that the elves are attacking them?

Um...

[Jyggdrasil]

Siege is the wrong word. It was a deep surgical strike. Practically the opposite of a siege.

And if you consider the associated fluff carefully, Zerkova has been *very* cagey about what she was up to, even to other Greylords let alone the wider Khador military. Eiryss on the otherhand knows very well who stabbed her in the guts and why.

[mellchia]

I think it worked for Goreshade's benefit that Eiryss lived, if only to weaken the might of the Khador military.

[Typhael]

Siege is the wrong word. It was a deep surgical strike. Practically the opposite of a siege.

And if you consider the associated fluff carefully, Zerkova has been *very* cagey about what she was up to, even to other Greylords let alone the wider Khador military. Eiryss on the otherhand knows very well who stabbed her in the guts and why.

This is fair. I seriously doubt that she wouldn't let Khador know about the impending new threat, though. After all, the Empire's resources are her resources, and if the Empire loses their resources...well...

[Lee T]

Hi,

What do you mean by symmetrical? Are you saying that you would prefer it if all factions were more similar?

I like the fact that Cryx aren't allowed mercs, it's our thing.

I like symmetry. As far as Mercs are concerned that means that I'd like for each faction to have access to "almost" as many mercs, just like they have "almost" as many options in their regular roster. Granted, those mercs should be different, rule balanced for each faction they could work for and cherry on top have a background to go with it.

"no mercs" is no substitute for that.

It's a principle thing though, as a theme player first and foremost I tent to play faction only models anyway (even if I own models from each and every faction I only have four mercs in my collection, Magnus, Gorman, Gudrun and the Totem Hunter).

[serialli]

I like symmetry. As far as Mercs are concerned that means that I'd like for each faction to have access to "almost" as many mercs, just like they have "almost" as many options in their regular roster. Granted, those mercs should be different, rule balanced for each faction they could work for and cherry on top have a background to go with it.

"no mercs" is no substitute for that.

It's a principle thing though, as a theme player first and foremost I tent to play faction only models anyway (even if I own models from each and every faction I only have four mercs in my collection, Magnus, Gorman, Gudrun and the Totem Hunter).

Yeah, fair enough, I disagree but that's just my opinion :-)

On a related note I collect 4 star and I'd like to see some merc-only mercs, it works in the fluff but I can't see it happening :-(

[Lee T]

Yeah, fair enough, I disagree but that's just my opinion :-)

I'll happily agree to disagree :-) .

On a related note I collect 4 star and I'd like to see some merc-only mercs, it works in the fluff but I can't see it happening :-(

The tools are already there (they did charter only pirates), I suppose it's all about sales figures, a merc that could only work with part of the merc roster would be the nichest niche market in Warmachine.

[Sabin]

Mercenaries will no doubt get Mercenary only miniatures, the Commodore is, as is the Renegade, it wouldn't surprise me if eventually Mercenaries got caster unique character jacks.

[mellchia]

I would go out on a limb and state that Brun & Lug is an example of a Merc only model if we're only looking at the scope of Warmachine (and not Hordes).

[Sabin]

It is, same can be said about Dalia and Ret.

[yankeefan]

well Taryn di la Rovissi hates us too. i cant remember if her model fluff indicated it though.

[Silopolis]

All the money we save by not having to buy mercs is used up buying duplicates to cover our self-regenerating units.

[yankeefan]

All the money we save by not having to buy mercs is used up buying duplicates to cover our self-regenerating units.

there we go and now we can still use our pistol wraiths

[InitialDEARS]

Why is the most open minded faction the one with the most merc restriction? We like everyone! From whatever species, dead or alive, pirate or not! so unfair, but let them be, we'll keep our little paradise to ourselves

[Ghyrrshyld]

Probably because the final goal of our faction is to kill them all.

That said fluff doesn't equal rules... except when it comes to who will work with us.

[Kaptain Von]

Probably because the final goal of our faction is to kill them all.

That said fluff doesn't equal rules... except when it comes to who will work with us.

I think anyone who buys into that fluff ain't rules thing is seriously deluding themselves about the nature of a fantasy wargame. Yes, even if they have PPS in their handle. It's possible for the people running a fictional universe to make oversights. Or to use something with the strictest irony.

[Ghyrrshyld]

I think anyone who buys into that fluff ain't rules thing is seriously deluding themselves about the nature of a fantasy wargame. Yes, even if they have PPS in their handle. It's possible for the people running a fictional universe to make oversights. Or to use something with the strictest irony.

So when we are told that fluff does not equal rules, do we get to say "uh, yes it does"?

[blakeh1]

well Taryn di la Rovissi hates us too. i cant remember if her model fluff indicated it though.

and a RAT 7 merc with 2 magical weapon P+S 10 shots. Even more ways for Cygnar and Menoth to take out your Incorporeal models.

Looks like she might see more playing time then the Gun Mage Captain Adept.

[BilesyBelcher]

Plus, do you have any idea how bad an undead horde would smell...

[yankeefan]

and a RAT 7 merc with 2 magical weapon P+S 10 shots. Even more ways for Cygnar and Menoth to take out your Incorporeal models.

Looks like she might see more playing time then the Gun Mage Captain Adept.

and she is gonna make eryiss a nightmare

[Typhael]

and she is gonna make eryiss a nightmare

(I was originally only going to use one frown face, but it wanted more characters...)

[Onimura]

So when we are told that fluff does not equal rules, do we get to say "uh, yes it does"?

I have to agree with this sadly, there is some fluff out there that makes you go... no wait why doesn't my unit do that? Granted, its gotten some what better in MKII as now...the Defiler who now finally has a spray...the Necro tecks also finally got repair... so on and so forth...

As to the not getting mercs crap...I used to argue that our reason for getting less mercs was because our units were ten times cheaper...so giving us more mercs would be unfair...now looking at bone jacks, among other things I'm kinda eyeballing the mercs and getting that whole grass is greener problem.

[whats82]

I think the "fluff != rules" phrase gets taken too literally between players.

It's a fantasy game, and to the best of their design space allowance PP will and has tried to match fluff to rules. As it is their right and theirs alone to decide how closely resembling the fluff a model would be.

I imagine cryx have a lousy reputation for keeping up to their share of the bargain in the past, seeing as how they feel justified to 'use' everyone, that certainly doesn't click with most 'blood for coin' mindset of mercs. Granted most mercs have their own goals and agenda, but consumed by your employer for your soul usually doesn't rank very high on that list.

[PG_Preston]

Though mercenaries may be ruthless, cold blooded, and otherwise bastards, many of them are still human enough to not want their souls devoured by ancient monsters. Dragons, on the whole, are terrifying.

The Nightmare Empire of Cryx? Well, there's a reason its called "The Nightmare Empire" most sane mercenaries want nothing to do with the necromancers and worse that lurk on those dank isles.

The ones that do are either insane, desperate, a blackheart, or so battle hardened that they just don't care...or they are fools.

Gorman? Insane. Magnus? Blackheart. The Nyss? Desperate. Croe? Blackheart. The Steelheads? ... Fools.

The rest of the mercs? Not crazy, desperate, or foolish enough to risk their souls.

[Kaptain Von]

So when we are told that fluff does not equal rules, do we get to say "uh, yes it does"?

We get to say "if background doesn't influence rules then why bother having it at all?"

The misapprehension is in the 'equals' part. No, one does not equal the other, but pretending they exist in some sort of mutually exclusive void isn't terribly wise, in my opinion.

I sometimes wonder if game developers (and this is a broader thing than just PP) hang themselves up on representing a background in their rules rather than making rules that work and then tooling the background to fit those.

[Kaptain Von]

Though mercenaries may be ruthless, cold blooded, and otherwise bastards, many of them are still human enough to not want their souls devoured by ancient monsters. Dragons, on the whole, are terrifying.

The Nightmare Empire of Cryx? Well, there's a reason its called "The Nightmare Empire" most sane mercenaries want nothing to do with the necromancers and worse that lurk on those dank isles.

The ones that do are either insane, desperate, a blackheart, or so battle hardened that they just don't care...or they are fools.

Gorman? Insane. Magnus? Blackheart. The Nyss? Desperate. Croe? Blackheart. The Steelheads? ... Fools.

The rest of the mercs? Not crazy, desperate, or foolish enough to risk their souls.

Fiona? Company of equals, religious differences notwithstanding (that's 'blackheart' to you). Bart? Insane or foolish. Sea Dogs? Half of them are probably Scharde anyway.

[Joeb]

Cryx has always had the least amount of mercs. If you want to use lots of mercs then Cygnar and Khador are for you. Or just play straight up mercs.

I started playing Khador partly just so I could use Eiryss.

[Onimura]

We get to say "if background doesn't influence rules then why bother having it at all?"

Cheers to this comment,though, again let it not be sad that I don't see that PP is making Great strides to match up fluff to rules for us.

THough on the comment about hanging because you write fluff, and then make rules, I think that's a hangman's rope either way. If you write the rules for a model, and then write its fluff suddenly SUddenly your trying to explain this random Half Dinosaur man who's some how working with these cat-people who hate him...but he's in their faction... Where as is the current theme for most games you write fluff first...Then try to come up with rules...that match the epic scope of the fluff...But don't make putting the model on the board make every one across from it go "***...really you just had to bring that didn't you."

...

Though looking at the B13 and the squire I still ponder those words...THen again I'm sure my friends think them as well when they see two seethers and a death jack across from them.

[yankeefan]

THESE DONT!!!!!!!!




and we have a ranged option