Ravyn + HG Riflemen Theory Tested

[Erebos]

I apologize if this tactic has already been discussed but i didn't see it in any Ravyn topic.

While assembling my Storm Fall at the LGS I was discussing retribution tactics with a fellow ret player. His favorite was Ravyn but I never really saw a use for her. However, he convinced me to try her with this theory in mind -- Ravyn, nor Vortex, is the finisher. He reminded me that HG Riflemen can CRA engaged targets, and with Vortex up that's a boosted DMG roll. On her feat or withint 8", its boosted to hit as well, alleviating the -4 penalty.

It all sounded like an interesting and fun tactic, so i tried it. It works surprisingly well and adds a new angle to Revyn few will expect. I was able to kill a beast in one turn with it.

[Redphantasm]

Nice tactic, I will have to remember it. The only problem I can see is would be obtaining the LOS to the target, but there are ways around that.

Great find!

[FearLord]

I apologize if this tactic has already been discussed but i didn't see it in any Ravyn topic.

While assembling my Storm Fall at the LGS I was discussing retribution tactics with a fellow ret player. His favorite was Ravyn but I never really saw a use for her. However, he convinced me to try her with this theory in mind -- Ravyn, nor Vortex, is the finisher. He reminded me that HG Riflemen can CRA engaged targets, and with Vortex up that's a boosted DMG roll. On her feat or withint 8", its boosted to hit as well, alleviating the -4 penalty.

It all sounded like an interesting and fun tactic, so i tried it. It works surprisingly well and adds a new angle to Revyn few will expect. I was able to kill a beast in one turn with it.

This is pretty much the standard Ravyn tactic actually. If it hasn't been dicussed on the new forums yet, it certainly was on the old forums!

It's probably the best combo for Riflemen as well - a CRA into melee is a nice ability to have anyway, but a full unit combining on a target + a boosted damage roll is some quite nasty damage to a caster...

[Lord Xalys]

The combo above is indeed what has many people salivating over Ravyn + Riflemen. These Houseguard already synergize greatly with the Will of the Nine Voices (Snipe, Veil of Mists, Fire Storm), and this pushes it to even greater heights.

Good to have it tested! Killing a 'beast in one turn can be a game breaker in the right circumstances.

LX

[KaalTheWanderer]

I don't know about you guys, but I don't want Ravyn anywhere near the fighting. I've read the accolades regarding arcane vortex, but with def 15/arm 16 Ravyn just isn't tough enough to withstand even a stiff breeze.

The one time I've pulled it off successfully was when Typhon managed to wiggle his way behind my lines, but in hindsight the army could have already had boosted damage rolls on their own.

[Lord Xalys]

I don't know about you guys, but I don't want Ravyn anywhere near the fighting. I've read the accolades regarding arcane vortex, but with def 15/arm 16 Ravyn just isn't tough enough to withstand even a stiff breeze.

Considering that the generic DEF/ARM ratios of warcasters in WM are 14/16 (Rahn) and 16/14 (Kaelyssa, Garryth), Ravyn is doing pretty well actually. Only Vyros has a better ratio. Yes, there will be a good number of situations where you don't want your 'caster in, but warcasters can actually battle well themselves if you create opportunities that suit their style of combat. For Ravyn, this means getting her into melee with a light infantry unit. Vortex of Destruction isn't what makes her shine in combat, it's the combination of Gunfighter/Virtuoso/Quick Work/Swift Hunter/Thresher. VoD is meant to support her army (as in the Riflemen combo) or increase her focus efficiency, but her innate abilities make her whirl through infantry like they weren't even there.

LX

[Erebos]

but with def 15/arm 16 Ravyn just isn't tough enough to withstand even a stiff breeze.

I'd be terrified to feel a stiff breeze from where you come from.

Or are we even talking about the same game?

Ravyn is on the same level as Vlad. Granted, without BOK, but 15/16 is damn sturdy.

[KaalTheWanderer]

Ravyn is on the same level as Vlad

*cough* *cough*

Granted, without BOK,

*edit*

Or are we even talking about the same game?

I guess not!

All I know, is that when I play warmachine, a model that goes on the front lines becomes eligible for sudden death should my opponent gear enough resources towards the completion of the afformentioned goal. I have never understood why folks claim she's an awesome melee caster when her stats dictate that she stays far the heck away. She doesn't bring any of the normal attributes that a front line caster would normally have (ie perfect balance, tough etc.)

She *can* deal with some infantry swarming around here, but by then, its normally too late.

[thecsharian]

with this 'strategy', what happens when you riflemen miss and hit Ravyn instead?
(or has MkII changed the way shooting into combat works?)

[Lazlo]

with this 'strategy', what happens when you riflemen miss and hit Ravyn instead?
(or has MkII changed the way shooting into combat works?)

Wow, that sure would suck. But at least their damage against her wouldn't be boosted.

[Erebos]

with this 'strategy', what happens when you riflemen miss and hit Ravyn instead?
(or has MkII changed the way shooting into combat works?)

The houseguard riflemen have changed the way shooting into combat works, since they can CRA while doing so.

4 will negate the shooting into melee penalty, so with a maximum squad (11 + RAT 6 - 4 melee = 13 CRA RAT) that means on average you hit DEF 20. And on Ravyn's feat or with the unit's mini-feat, that roll is boosted.

[Lazlo]

The houseguard riflemen have changed the way shooting into combat works, since they can CRA while doing so.

4 will negate the shooting into melee penalty, so with a maximum squad (11 + RAT 6 - 4 melee = 13 CRA RAT) that means on average you hit DEF 20. And on Ravyn's feat or with the unit's mini-feat, that roll is boosted.

Yeah, but with just one attack you aren't taking maximum advantage of boosted damage.

[Demeritus]

Keep in mind, their mini feat gives them an additional die on the attack roll so on her feat turn they can have up to 4d6 to hit, so pairing them up or however you want to do it, can do quite nicely.

[thecsharian]

The houseguard riflemen have changed the way shooting into combat works, since they can CRA while doing so.

4 will negate the shooting into melee penalty, so with a maximum squad (11 + RAT 6 - 4 melee = 13 CRA RAT) that means on average you hit DEF 20. And on Ravyn's feat or with the unit's mini-feat, that roll is boosted.

As other have said, you wouldn't be doing a full unit CRA.

And if you're relying on the dice, as you most probably would be if you were trying to get a good use out of the unit, then there is always the chance of missing... and when the odds are that good to hit, missing twice in a row will be rare.

...just saying.

[FearLord]

As other have said, you wouldn't be doing a full unit CRA.

And if you're relying on the dice, as you most probably would be if you were trying to get a good use out of the unit, then there is always the chance of missing... and when the odds are that good to hit, missing twice in a row will be rare.

...just saying.

If you're that worried, engineer knock down first - then the target can be in her melee range without being engaged (and you'll need double 11's to miss and can't hit Ravyn).

But do remember everyone that Ravyn is not in her own melee range, so even if you hit her you'll only be able to basic damage...

Also worth bearing in mind, you will often do a full combined (or at least as good as you need to get the to hit on as low as possible) since unless you've run Ravyn to get there, she'll have probably done a bit of damage herself...

[Lazlo]

But do remember everyone that Ravyn is not in her own melee range, so even if you hit her you'll only be able to basic damage...

Doesn't matter, as Vortex specifies enemy models.