The Juggernaut dilemma - why we love it but rarely field it

[PG_ChainGun]

While most Khador players agree that the Juggernaut is a great warjack for its points, looking at most lists we see people tend to choose other warjacks for actual play. I feel that even though these cheapies give good, or even great value, when lists are compiled, it is Beast-09, the Kodiak, Torch or the Behemoth who usually see play. In this writeup I will try to explain why. While I use the Juggernaut as an example, I would like to expend the discussion to the other cheap warjacks as well, the Marauder and the Berserker.

Due to general lack of battle group spells in Khador, many Khadoran warcasters tend to run warjack light armies. When you have a warcaster who can effectively control only one or two warjacks, you want your focus investment to be effective. If I'm going to invest all of my focus on a warjack, I want it to be:
-Very effective at killing stuff, and/or
-Be versatile and offer me value even when it's not in melee

Looking at these two criteria, we see that Beast-09 and Torch are super effective at killing in melee while the Spriggan, the Kodiak and the Behemoth offer versatility which extends beyond merely killing stuff in melee. Looking at the Juggernaut, the Marauder and the Berserker, on the other hand, they offer little versatility and their deadliness is eclipsed by the more expensive warjacks.

Let's analyze warjack pricing. When considering a warjack's price, we should remember we actually pay for a warjack twice:
1. Before the beginning of the game we make an initial payment in form of points,
2. After the game starts, we pay each turn in focus points.

The first form of payment varies from warjack to warjack but the second form is fixed: it is always 1-3 focus. Understanding this, we can now see that since we pay for a warjack twice, the effective gap between the Juggernaut and beast-09, for example, is actually smaller than 4 points (feels like 2 to me). This is why we are usually willing to pay for a more expensive warjack in exchange for better functionality: they are effectively less expensive than the cheap ones once we look at the full "pricing scheme". A Spriggan may be three points more expensive than a Juggernaut but since I'm going to feed both of them 1-3 focus points per turn, I might as well invest the additional points to get all the extra capabilities.

So, is it never effective to take a Juggernaut or a Berserker? No. I think the best usage of cheap warjacks is en masse. People in this forum often feel that ARM 20 is not enough to ensure survivability. That a Juggernaut or even a Behemoth will die to any dedicated assault, be it infantry, Focus laden Warjack or a furious warbeast. “Since ARM 20 and 34 boxes don’t save my warjack,” they feel “it is fragile and as a faction, our promise of a tough faction is broken”. In a sense, they are correct.

A single ARM 20 Khadoran warjack with a pathetic DEF and 7.5” threat range will die to any dedicated attack: any infantry charge, any warjack assault. Unless there are 3 or 4 of them. While most armies will easily get rid of a single Khador heavy, not many armies are able to crack several of them at the same time and survive the retaliation. A Khadoran wall of iron consisting of 3-5 heavy warjacks with ARM 18-21 poses a strategic problem most armies can’t solve easily. They may kill one or two on the initial attacks, but the retaliation of the surviving warjacks will be harsh. The thing is, if you wish to run a lot of warjacks, you need to get cheap ones, and this is where you need Juggernauts, Berserkers and Marauders.



To sum it all up: it is usually not very cost effective to run a single cheap warjack. If you want to run only one or two warjacks, better get the versatile and deadly ones. But if you want to shove a wall of iron down your opponent’s throat, the best solution is probably a host of cheap, heavy warjacks which will pose a considerable challenge to most factions and warcasters.

[bitmatic]

I field a juggernaut in 9 out of 10 games. I love it. I think that it is an absolute bargain at 7pts.

So, while I also find it strange that people tend to not include it in their lists, i have a feeling that those of us that really love the Juggernaut then use it a lot. While he is absent in most lists, I also see lists from time to time with 2 or even 3 juggernauts.

[PG_ChainGun]

I field a juggernaut in 9 out of 10 games. I love it. I think that it is an absolute bargain at 7pts.

I also feel that it is a great bargain at 7 points. However, I think that due to the same focus consumption, the Spriggan, Torch or Beast-09 are effectively less expensive than the 3-4 points gap between them and the Juggernaut so more often than not, it is more cost effective to go for the more expensive warjack. Think of it this way: if maintenance of all cars (fuel, insurance, garage) was identical, wouldn't the effective gap between small cars and large ones drop? Wouldn't it make more sense to buy a bigger car (again, assuming all maintenance costs are identical)?

While he is absent in most lists, I also see lists from time to time with 2 or even 3 juggernauts.

I agree completely. I played with Prime Butcher, a Kodiak and two Juggernauts a few weeks ago and it was a blast. But then again, it's the numbers which tip the scales towards the cheap warjack's direction. They are effective in large numbers but most people (rightly) prefer premium warjacks when running small amount of warjacks.

[Annoch]

I gotta say, I fully agree with you.

As I always tell new Khador players, 'I came for the jacks, but I stayed for the infantry'

[Reynastus]

I must say I agree with PG. I find that the juggernaut is lovely to look at on paper but in practice i find the lack of speed is more of a problem. Threat range of 7.5" really is not that far, and the lack of reach is really disappointing.

As I am still only a very new player (total of 5 games so far 2 wins 3 losses and 4 of these games were 15 pointers) I have fiddled around with a few different jacks (proxying for the most part) and found that the Juggernaut / Destroyer do work quite well but not as the main damage dooers. In fact it was only in the last game I played that the jugger actually did anything more than soak my opponents heavy jack for 2 turns till he boxed it and while I struggled to do much damage to him. Same goes for the Destroyer but that was more due to my lack of experience and familiarity with the rules. No-Quarter 33 and these forums have helped with that and the jack that I was thinking was worse than the jugger is now a lot tastier (arc shot and the critical effect from the axe works well too).

I ran a list with a kodiak and a beserker for funsies. Both were taken out before I could really do anything with them. It was rather depressing at that point. Next 15 point list is gonna have beast in it as it really does sound like a very nice jack that i want to give a go too.

My question is however ... what size army are you looking at to have 3-5 Juggers and which caster would you be using?

Rey

[nefarion]

IMO, there is no Great or Greater Warjack - One is for the poor, the other for the rich (point-wise).
Bear in mind both warjacks have the same P+S, and both can only take the same amount of hits before going down.
If one has spare points for the Beast's longer stick, MAT +1, etc.. then go for it.
BTW, the 4 pts difference could be 2 x Manhunters, which definitely offer more tactical options.

The major key to win a melee fight is to get the charge, and not get charged.

[PG_ChainGun]

My question is however ... what size army are you looking at to have 3-5 Juggers and which caster would you be using?Rey

A quick suggestion:

The Butcher of Khardov
Juggernaut
Juggernaut
Juggernaut
War dog
Man-o-war Shocktroopers (Leader and 4 Grunts)
Man-o-war Shocktroopers (Leader and 2 Grunts)
Manhunter
Manhunter
Widowmaker Marksman

Generally speaking, pButcher, eButcher, pVlad and Karchev can all handle 3+ warjacks relatively easily.

[bitmatic]

A quick suggestion:
The Butcher of Khardov
Juggernaut
Juggernaut
Juggernaut
War dog
Man-o-war Shocktroopers (Leader and 4 Grunts)
Man-o-war Shocktroopers (Leader and 2 Grunts)
Manhunter
Manhunter
Widowmaker Marksman

@Rey
The above army is a 35pts pButcher tier4 army. It will definitely work against many armies. At 35pts your opponent will have an almost impossible task of dealing with all that armour/wounds.
Because of the tier bonusses it also gets quite fast (in a sort of slow way....).

[PG_Pyrodude32]

I pretty much bring the Juggernaunt in every list. Here lately i'm trying different strategies so he's set out for 3 games in a row but i'm starting to miss him again. There's just something to be said for our most reliable beatstick. Absolutely, love this jack thats why I have 2. I run him 7 to 8 inches the first turn, if someone shoots him I just repair him with mechanics, Arm 20 can shrug off a lot but most of the time my opponent won't waste his shots against such a hard target. Then turn 2 I put him in melee with something, sometimes I can do this without casting a spell but usually he needs a little help. pSorcha's boundless charge helps, or eIrusk's Energizer, Strakov's feat, etc.

[NYCowboy]

I love the Juggernaunt. By far my favorite jack in the game, well tied with Drago. All my list start with a caster and a juggy if I can fit a second I do.

[B@ttle_R@ge]

Actually you left out some great jacks that see alot of play in your small "used jacks" list. Spriggan and Devastator are 2 jacks that see extensive play by anyone who participates at any kind of tournaments with objectives.

While the Juggy is a good jack, he only becomes handy when you need to field more than 1 jack and try to save points. Karchev just loves Juggys.

[PG_Pickles]

I agree with this thread Juggernaut's a great 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) jack. Devastator is also usually better as a 2nd jack.

[Kuarnix]

I feel this is pretty true. When you're only bringing one 'jack, you'd better bring a good one and you definitely have the points to spend on it. In fact, you should probably bring one with a gun or one with reach. If you're going to run ~3 though, it's the cheap ones that really do a much better job, mostly because it's a lot more boxes to chew through.

[MortificatorX]

I love Juggernauts, I run them in almost every game I play. Granted, I play pButcher almost exclusively, when when I dip into Irusk, I normally go with a single jack with a gun. Even with pButcher or Karchev, I think I'd rather run Berserkers over a Juggernaut since both of them support it very well, but I need to pick up two (or three or four) more to run a proper Berserker spam list. Until then, the Juggernaut will still see use from me, just not sure for how long...

[Poet]

Really good post, and a very interesting read.
I think you nailed it.

I agree that juggernauts just don't really cut it when you're only playing with 1-2 jacks, and become very very good when you reach 3+.

[Hamsterman]

I regularly play pButcher as one of my tourney casters, and I always take a Juggernaut along for the ride. I play jack heavy, with 3 of them at 35 points, but also want some room for our excellent infantry, which means cheap jacks. Also, with casters like pButcher and Karchev the focus payment issue is somewhat mitigated. Sure, a Full Throttled Beast 09 is still better than a Full Throttled Juggernaut, but the more jacks I have, the better the spell is. And Beast 09 is just 3 points short of 2 Juggernauts.

[Aetou]

To sum it all up: it is usually not very cost effective to run a single cheap warjack. If you want to run only one or two warjacks, better get the versatile and deadly ones. But if you want to shove a wall of iron down your opponent?s throat, the best solution is probably a host of cheap, heavy warjacks which will pose a considerable challenge to most factions and warcasters.

Yep, pretty much. It doesn't just apply to Khador either - with the exception of a few 'jack 'casters Warmachine armies can generally only afford the 'ongoing cost' of 1-2 heavies, unlike in Hordes, which means that the elite 'jacks normally get taken rather than multiple cheaper ones.

[Khador247]

I tend to use Juggernauts quite a bit. Mostly, I like them as a backup to my favorite jack which is Beast 09. I tend to run them pretty close together. I still love those P&S 19 axes and on ESorscha's feat turn I REALLY love those P&S 19 axes. I rarely ever use our other "cheap" jacks (Marauder and Berserker).

[tedwin183]

I have to agree with all the Juggernaut lovers. I field one in 90% of my lists. Normally, I try to find a good reason NOT to field one. It's generally really good to fill in as a second jack. The threat range doesn't bother me because we're KHADOR. We don't move fast. I always get up in arms when people start talking about our jacks being slow...like we have ANY jacks that are over SPD 4...

We're Khador, we have the best base armor and the most damage boxes per jack. Somewhere, something has to give. So the Juggernaut is slow. So is the Kodiak, Behemoth, Drago...

A 7pt ARM 20 PS19 with a good crit. effect and 34 damage boxes? Yes. Please. Almost always in my lists. Too good not to take...most of the time.

[DemonCalibre]

This is actually less a Warmachine Problem and more specifically a Khador problem.

I recently went through a huge bought of faction ADD, and dug into Protectorate, Mercenaries, Retribution, all in MK2 at different points.

With all of the factions I played, in general I ran more jacks, and felt my jacks were a much larger asset with all my other factions.

I think the reason for this is two fold. First in the case of Retribution, I felt I had reasonably priced jacks that I could help out, for not to many points to make them perform well above the power curve, then I combo that with Magisters, or MHA(to seal the deal when my jacks would come up short), and I would get high milage. More over all of my retribution jacks had some type of Tech they could bring to the list giving each a special role, and having more meant a bit more flexibility. They were also quick, so getting into combat was never something I had to help them with, I generally had to help them with damage output or survivability.

In the second case, my Mercenaries, I love mercenary jacks because I believe that they are I am getting a deal. For the most part Mercs have very little Warjack support, and their warjacks aren't the best in the business, but they get them at such cut rates points wise they are vastly more disposable. In my tier 4 Ashlynn list I run 5 warjacks, which is something I would never consider with Khador. Why because they have a great stat make up and are cheap. The reason why the list runs two Nomads, is I felt that one Nomad would be to fragile and valuable, and 6 points was a cheap price to pay for redundancy on such an important roll. These jacks aren't focus efficent and provide very little tech(other then the Mule which seldom crits when I need it), but they are cheap and more particularly quick.

My Protectorate Jacks are in an even weirder place, as they both combine being budget(Protectorate get amazing deals on jacks), and having insanely powerful jack support to make them the starts of the show. It felt very different from Khador, where my Khadoran jacks were tools, but the general focus of my army was on powerful infantry combos.

Honestly, I think the key comes down to speed. Khadoran jacks are slow, and our cheap jacks don't have reach, this generally puts them in a position where they can get eliminated without doing anything at all. Even in a list with armor saturation, You still have to feed your opponent one jack for free to set up the chain of counter attacks that will eventually put yourselves ahead of the curve, but on the other hand if You buy a more highly pointed jack like Spriggan, Torch, Behemoth it's entirely possible they will do something to your opponent before anything is done to them allowing you to generally get performance out of them.

Also I agree with ChainGun, with how little Warjack support Khador gets from non-warcasters, It means our Warjacks run on Warcaster focus and pretty much nothing else, and since our jacks tend to be expensive(All heavies), and melee oriented(Meaning focus inefficient), we generally have to feed them a ton of focus. This makes it hard to run multiple jacks for the price tags, particularly when the large majority have no chance of First Striking.

[SpellBinder]

Personally I love the look of the Juggernaut model. That's about as far as it gets, and I don't yet have such a model (unless you count Beast-09). I know a guy at my LGS who thinks it's the "bees knees" because of its P+S 19 critically freezing axe, cheap cost, high armor and damage boxes. Problem for me is in practice the lack of critical hits I actually score, even on boosted attack rolls. As far as pure brutality goes I think I've wrecked more havoc with any one of my other 'jacks than I might ever with a Juggernaut.

That isn't to say I'll never use a Juggernaut, just that it's currently bottom tier priority to me of all of Khador's current 'jacks.

[Reynastus]

I think i might have not made the right point earlier. It is not that I do not like the juggy. In fact I do alot its just that I have not had a lot of success with it. This I am putting down to its low speed (when compared to menoth jacks who get all up in my grill on turn 2 with charge bonus'). I'll agree with whoever it was that said with melee it's all about getting the charge so on the last game I played instead of moving the Juggy up the full 8" (having done so had resulted in me losing every combat with the juggy), I moved it up only 3" which resulted in me having an extra focus for Sorscha to cast wind rush and still shoot the destroyer with boosted hit and damage rolls. This also allowed me to gain the charge on the next turn.

I have come to realise that yes Khador is slow but that just means you gotta be a little bit more crafty about how you move said jacks, but thats not really for me to tell other people on this forum. It has made me realise the benefit of going second though as you get to know how fast your opponent is if you do not already know.

I am impressed by the survivability of the jacks still as its only menoth's avatar that managed to box the Juggy in one turn and took entirely waaayyy too much focus for him to manage that (about 5-6 focus I can't quite remember)

Will the juggy be a staple in my army? Probably for the time being. Reason's being that I have the ability to field 2 with my current models. Is it worth the 7 points? yep... it's been useful in every game even if its just being used to tie up other jacks. Is it as good as I initially thought? No. On paper the thing sounds flippin amazing and that critical effect is awesome. However no reach and the chances of getting critical hits makes the whole thing a little less awesome.

But as has been said in this thread a lot already. It is a cheap Khador Jack and comes with all the nastiness that is entailed by being a Khador Jack. so yep i love em ... not as much as I thought I would but with practice and perseverance I am sure I'll be fielding them more and more.

Rey

[Khador247]

Also I agree with ChainGun, with how little Warjack support Khador gets from non-warcasters, It means our Warjacks run on Warcaster focus and pretty much nothing else, and since our jacks tend to be expensive(All heavies), and melee oriented(Meaning focus inefficient), we generally have to feed them a ton of focus. This makes it hard to run multiple jacks for the price tags, particularly when the large majority have no chance of First Striking.

That is a very good summation of the situation. I'd really like some good non-jack marshalling warjack support. Primarily I'd like anything that boosts SPD. SPD4 with no reach is definitely an issue. Even with Boundless Charge that jack is only charging 9 inches.

[zombie-a-go-go]

Primarily I'd like anything that boosts SPD. SPD4 with no reach is definitely an issue. Even with Boundless Charge that jack is only charging 9 inches.

You're not kidding. These days I'm running the Sorschas pretty exclusively, and the only jacks (other than the Behemoth) I ever take are Beast and the Spriggan. 11" threat FTW.

I don't know if I'll ever be able to go back to 7.5" threat.

[GlassJaw]

You're not kidding. These days I'm running the Sorschas pretty exclusively, and the only jacks (other than the Behemoth) I ever take are Beast and the Spriggan. 11" threat FTW.

I don't know if I'll ever be able to go back to 7.5" threat.

100% agreed. It's why I stopped running pure melee jacks with the OW. She has nothing to speed them up and the only "buff" she can give them is focus.

I never use the Juggernaut. I don't dislike it but Khador has so many other amazing options. I tend to only run 1 jack at 35 points so I generally want something that's a lot more versatile.

[frozenwastes]

I tend to try to play to turn 3 or later with Khador. Running 8" for two turns and charging in for 7" on the third turn means that a Juggy can be 33" onto the table. If you're doing scenario play and know where you need to send the heavies by turn 3, they're fine. If you're going with a caster kill game and you end up playing with someone who likes to continually fade from you and relocate, you can get outrun.

Even without the various ways Khador can speed up their jacks with certain casters, I find my Khador heavy gets there. Maybe not in turn 1 or 2 like doom reavers or Uhlans, but they get there for the turn that I find usually decides the game.

I like the marauder as well as it can be useful in scenario play for directing a slam in the perfect direction. I tend not to play a medium amount of jacks. It's either one jack, maybe two or a ton of them. And when it's one jack, I like the cheaper ones as that frees up a couple points for more infantry/solos. I certainly get taking Beast 09, the Spriggan or the Behemoth as your only jack, but I find a Juggernaut works quite well and saves me the points needed to make a min unit into a max, add Yuri or some widowmakers, etc.,.

[nefarion]

When Khador only had Spriggan with Reach, many would scorn and spit at it, even when Vlad could let it fly and hit targets 15" away - Turn 2 caster kills were easily available in MK1. And now many are singing praises to Beast09's Reach? Weird. -_-

Hmm.. new toy syndrome i guess. LOL

[zombie-a-go-go]

Hmm.. new toy syndrome i guess. LOL

I think it has more to do with MK2 making warjacks more viable on the field.

A pair of Spriggans was my preferred jack loadout with eButch in MK1.

[PG_mongre36]

I would be very careful about dredging up old MK1 preferences. A lot has changed since those days. Some of the new respect for the Spriggan in MK2 is +1 MAT. The other is that the guns in MK1 were at best situational. Extra accuracy or a short range POW5. Now they are regular POW10 AoE3 guns and provide a rare stealth removal ability. Then there was point cost. In MK1 the Spriggan was 132 points if I recall correctly. That did not help its popularity. Now that it is 10 points it is in line with the other options. Then there was the fact Warmachine was even more Infantry focused in MK1. With the plentiful reach troops in Khador and things like +2" charge range IFP, 8 Wound Uhlans, over the top great bears, and the face wrecking flying drakhun warjacks in general were less important let alone the Spriggan.

I agree with Chainguns's core point. You either want to take one of the premium high MAT or utility warjacks, or take a large number of the less expensive ones. Toolbox or Wound Saturation.

I also find Khador lacks the warjack feel that I get with other factions. For me the difference manifests when I play mercenaries. Even when I play Ashlynn I rarely fail to take 3 heavies, and that is without ATGM or any jack marshals. For 6 points you gain reach and a bunch of wounds, for 8 points you gain either reach thresher or one of the strongest ranged AoE attacks in the game. Unlike DemonCalibre though my Mule criticals all the time. Also with Mercenaries the warjacks are a key solution to heavy targets as they do not have the really heavy hitting solos and units that Khador has. Then there are the games where you run a warjack boosting warcaster like pMagnus.

What a treat that is. All those SPD5 reach warjacks makes my army feel like it can be everywhere at once. Heck with pMagnus the infantry slows him down.

[whats82]

Lots of small reasons.

-2 of our casters have Superiority, which is the best jack buff spell in game, which in turn favours you taking 1 good jack to dump all of your resources on. Both of those casters also have great spells you want to use, so upkeep, spell, focus, and you often end up taking only a single jack.
-It is also meta dependent, if you have a lot of cryx and khador in your meta, then you will usually find their infantry outthreat your jacks and can easily scrap them. Menoth to a lesser extent, but still quite possible with a few casters boosting damage output of examplars of all flavours. In those cases, toughing it out with armour just isn't economical, better to spend some points in more versatile and independent choices.
-As mentioned, jack support from other factions tend to be better, with more non-caster interaction with jacks, we have 2 jack marshal, 1 drive and 1 powerbooster.
-Some casters have preference to certain jacks. For instance, Vlads with Drago, pSorscha with Behemoth, that override the cheap generalist Juggy, who must then compete for a 2nd spot which may not even exist.
-OW and Zerkova frequently have excess focus prior to engagement and works well with a jack that has a focus hungry gun.

So really the conclusion is not why is the juggy bad, it's how many caster prefer juggy over all other choices, and the answer is not many.

[quindraco]

-As mentioned, jack support from other factions tend to be better, with more non-caster interaction with jacks, we have 2 jack marshal, 1 drive and 1 powerbooster.

Did you forget that mechaniks can marshal?

[PG_Pyrodude32]

Eh, technically yes. In reality its mostly just to reactivate a warjack in multiple caster games which is why they are hardly ever counted as being a true jack marshal option.

[Loki_333]

I personally Favor Karchev and eVlad. It was Karchev that sold me in starting with Khador 2.5 years ago.

That being said. Karchev perfers jack with multiple attacks. I personally start with my 2 Kodiaks and go from there. At the same time, in mangled metal I give him a pair of Juggernauts on to of the Kodiaks. The Kodiaks give me 2+chain attacks and can use the free power attack for some board control, but due to the fact that I'm only really seeing Jacks and Beast the Juggs are the real killers in that list. Nothing like lateraly throwing a Jack just to get charge by a Juggernaut.

With eVlad I can't find a reason to take a Juggernaut over a Marauder. Assail is almost tailor made for the Marauder and the only other Jack eVlad should take is Drago.

[squee]

I dunno, but I find the cheap jacks to be a solid backbone for Khador armor lists; I play Butcher (both versions) in a warjack-heavy list but I find Marauder to be a great deal more efficient. I typically try to run mostly focus-efficient jacks (Such as Marauders) to deal with enemy armor. Combo smite an opponent sideways and then leap on it with another Marauder with Fury upkept on it.

The Juggernaut is a true melee monster against heavies but the main problem i find are its low threat range and massive focus consumption. For something that's going to be a slow focus guzzler i prefer Devastator as full throttle + fury / conferred rage + rage tokens + fury makes for a jack that can push thru enemy lines and pimp-slap an enemy caster to death.

If one wanted to use a Jugger in an armor-heavy list they could do something like:


35 points:

Butcher/Strakhov:
Marauder
Marauder
Juggernaut

Koldun Lord:
Destroyer
Destroyer

Juggernaut is actually a good buy; a real steal of a wrecking ball. Just make sure he's your only focus-intensive jack.

[PG_mongre36]

Squee I think Chaingun's point, which I think you are re-inforcing, was that players tend to take the more expensive warjacks when they take one warjack. Running one heavy warjack is a very common list build. This is especially the case with warcasters with one warjack upkeep and no battle group spells.

On the other hand if you are running a lot of warjacks the relative value of the Juggernaught goes up partly due to the shear amount of wounds you can place on the table for the points. This is especially the case if you are running a warcaster with a strong battle group spell.

So pButcher, a warcaster with a strong battle group spell it makes sense, if you are running warjack heavy with him, to run the cheaper warjacks.

[DemonCalibre]

Just a bone of contention.

I don't really feel full throttle is a Good Battle group spell, Think about it, if you using your Warjacks against the right targets how frequently do they a boost to hit, to hit that defense 12 Iron Clad, or that defense 10 avatar. The answer is rarely, the only situation where you really need Full Thottle is when your killing the Warcaster, or when your hitting a very high defense warjack/warbeast(though most of these don't live through more then one or two hits), considering it's half is focus payload, and he has very strong upkeeps, it's unlikely you are going to have a ton of focus to doll out to concentrate force, and if you have 4 jacks, at threat range 7.5 they are unlikely swinging at the same target at the same time. I have never cast full throttle and been blown away by it, or even impressed, and that is in the rare happenstance I do cast it.

Mobility, Energizer, Unearthly Rage, Synergy on the other hand are insane spells because they make your jacks vastly more efficient, or give them coveted speed

[marskitten]

The reason why full throttle is good because half our jacks have crit effects and mat 6 plus the free charge never hurts. By casting a 3 cost spell you give every jack in your battle group at least two focus worth of boosts immediately and double the worth of the remaining focus he hands out.

Unearthly Rage is better overall because it does more. But it doesn't give us a free charge

[DemonCalibre]

True, while the focus multiply math works out in favor of Full Throttle, in practical application generally the real focus multiplication is the free charge, considering how many jacks it takes for that to pay off, that is rough.

(We all remember how good Blitzkrieg was....and it gave extra movement!)

[PG_ChainGun]

Just a bone of contention.

I don't really feel full throttle is a Good Battle group spell, Think about it, if you using your Warjacks against the right targets how frequently do they a boost to hit, to hit that defense 12 Iron Clad, or that defense 10 avatar. The answer is rarely, the only situation where you really need Full Thottle is when your killing the Warcaster, or when your hitting a very high defense warjack/warbeast(though most of these don't live through more then one or two hits), considering it's half is focus payload, and he has very strong upkeeps, it's unlikely you are going to have a ton of focus to doll out to concentrate force, and if you have 4 jacks, at threat range 7.5 they are unlikely swinging at the same target at the same time. I have never cast full throttle and been blown away by it, or even impressed, and that is in the rare happenstance I do cast it.

Mobility, Energizer, Unearthly Rage, Synergy on the other hand are insane spells because they make your jacks vastly more efficient, or give them coveted speed

I'm not a big fan of Full Throttle, but it has its advantages, mostly when applied to a pack of Juggernauts:
-I play a lot against Circle, and those annoying DEF 14 (or even 16) wolves are a pain.
-When losing an arm, Full Throttle can easily keep your Juggernaut in the game.
-Full Throttle is better on high P+S warjacks, as they don't need to boost damage like the P+S 16 ones.
-The Juggernaut benefits from free charges, unlike Berserkers.

[Ector]

We pay for warjacks twice:
1. Before the beginning of the game we make an initial payment in form of points,
2. After the game starts, we pay each turn in focus points.
The first form of payment varies from warjack to warjack but the second form is fixed: it is always 1-3 focus. Understanding this, we can now see that since we pay for a warjack twice, the effective gap between the Juggernaut and beast-09, for example, is actually smaller than 4 points (feels like 2 to me). This is why we are usually willing to pay for a more expensive warjack in exchange for better functionality: they are effectively less expensive than the cheap ones once we look at the full "pricing scheme".

I think that the second form isn't actually "payment", it's rather the way of getting most benefit of the very limited amount of focus. The difference is important: you're paying the cost once and forever, but you can give a jack any amount of focus from 0 to 3 (or even 4). Different jacks perform differently with various amount of focus. We expect a LOT from a jack with 3 focus, while some jacks give us much more than others. We generally expect nothing from a jack with zero focus, but sometimes jacks can work quite well (look at Berserker).
The problem with Juggy lies in the fact that it generally needs all 3 focus to reach optimal performance, and in most popular formats (35+ points) focus is much more precious than points. Talking point-wise, it's simply awesome, but focus-wise it isn't. There are jacks that do more for the same focus, and that's why Juggie isn't as popular as it could be.
The problem is solved by the spells that buffs all melee attacks like Unearthly Rage or Full Throttle. They save you a lot of focus compared to usual boosting, and you get an extremely effective melee force.