Riding the Storm: A Pirate's Life Tactica

[PG_vytzka]

You probably should try to include the words "tough", "Doc Killingsworth" and "tarpit" into your description of the Pressgangers. And they don't use up Rockbottom's coins to get it.

Instead of charging, specially against shooty units, or units, that gain a lot from being able to charge themselves, just running PG 12,5" into melee, to tie up the enemy, will often be a valid tactic, too. Running costs 3 Focus less than charging under Coup de Main, and gets them 1" further.
If there aren't good options for all the models/units in your army to charge, the 3 focus might find better use elsewhere, while the PG stick themselves to the single whatever in range, and threaten anything up to ARM 16 with free strikes

Stopping jacks with small-sized models is a bit iffy, especially with a min unit, or if some of them are already dead, but trampling can be avoided, when there is no place to end the move, so a proper formation, with only 2 of them B2B with the jack, while the rest spread out, can often do the trick. Effetive use of terrain features, or a second wave following behind the PGs may help to achieve this. Medium templates, like light Jacks and/or Bosun Grogspar, at any place in their ranks, make this trick muh easier to pull off, but will draw a lot of spells and bullets, if used for that purpose.
Of course all heavy and even most light jacks, and a lot of Hordes beasties will be able to just turn around and walk away from PGs with little risk, but as long as the PG can deny them the direct path towards Shae, or another valuable target, purpose is often served.

Thanx to their toughness, PG can be very annoying to get rid off, and pester units of double their price and more for quite some time. Toughness is the reason, people hate to fight trolls and love to field Boomhowler, after all, and with the Doc and the Bosun around, PGs can beat trollkin at their own game. Their lower armour value is misleading, as a direct hit by anything will make a trollkin do his tough check as surely as a Pirate, so the only difference is the trolls greater ability to survive POW 6-9 blasts, while the Pirates are a tiny little bit more adept at dodging sprays. Stay away from continuous effects, when possible, anyway, as they kill tough people dead.

I don't know, I'd rather call the PGs a speedbump than a tarpit. While we may mean the exact same thing, I put them in another category than Boomhowler. Still they're a very good, versatile stopgap unit that operates well with no support (which is important as I prefer having solos stick around the Crew) and even then are a pain to remove.

To the description of Veil of Mist, maybe a word, that while it allows to move through models, it does not allow to ignore free strikes. With Grogspar around, privateers can keep on moving/running/complete their charge, after surviving a tough check, though, which can be useful to get some feisty club hits at pesky enemy support solos, hiding behind the lines, or simply to get a few bodies towards an onslaughting Hawk, that finds herself threatened by CRAs, a lot of shooty solos, or even a shooty caster like Caine.

Good point, I'll add the note about free strikes.

And, as I said about the Mangler in the other thread: Shae can successfully run a lot of jacks, even at small points, but he will be strapped on points for Infantry, and Infantry-clearing power (and probably the benefits from tiers 2-4, if he completely avoids them and therefor not includes Mr. Walls), when he does.
In this special case, and if not playing Mangled Metal, the Mangler can be far superior to the Nomad, because Tresher and Reach allow him to free himself of tarpit units.

Well sure, if you take pains to avoid one of your greatest strengths and what is probably one of the best "deathstar" style units in the game with all the 1 point support solos, a Mangler will do you a lot of good. Still MAT6 is a little shaky when it comes to threshing most infantry, and even a unit of Press Gangers with Payday (as you presumably don't have the Sea Dog Crew hogging coins) will likely do a lot better.

Ultimately, I think playing Mangled Metal + Commodore Shae is about as much of a trap as running Sea Dog infantry horde with nary a Nomad in sight, albeit probably a lot less common. Balance is the key, but then that's just my opinion.

Also, the Running Wild quotes increase the awesome of this thread by a hundred. Rockin' Rolf for the win.

Finally, someone who understands me! I'm thinking When Time Runs Out for Steamroller, maybe you've got other suggestions?

Firstly... thank you. This is what I have been trying to find since I started with Shae. I am new to warmachine in general and play for fun, you have just made it more fun to be a pirate.

Glad to be of service!

However, I am still trying to figure out how to run Aiyana and Holt to make them worth their points. I must be missing something. I have no idea what to do with them at all

Against Protectorate they're worth their weight in gold as Lady Aiyana will magic up the Commodore Cannon so you can do the regular jack billiards routine that they were trying desperately to avoid with Passage. Apart from that, Kiss of Lyliss is your only universal damage buff here and she is very accurate with it, you can often even tag warcasters with that Magic Ability 8, and jacks are almost a sure thing (before applying copious amounts of Battleblade between the eyes). Other turns Lady Aiyana has Stealth so you feel she's still doing something, and Master Holt should be shooting stuff every round and missing most of the time with that RAT8 if you're me.

Of course, they might not be useful if you're playing, say, against single wound infantry spam all the time. After all 4 is a lot of points in a Pirate's Life list and buys you Meg + Buccaneer or a minimum pressganger unit, etc. By all means, leave them at home for a few games and try to count the number of times you think "If only I had magical weapons / +2 damage against this thing / a couple RAT 8 handcannons". Maybe it will not be much and you're better off. Perhaps more likely, you'll see the situations where they'd have been useful so you can put A&H in your list again and then miss the things you had to take out to fit them instead

[TheSanityAssassin]

Hmm....If you ever do a section on deal with Heavy Warjacks I would say:

GODS OF IRON

Detain and destroy the gods of iron
Fight them before it's too late
Guard yourself from their defying
Stand up and don't hesitate

For Steamroller, maybe Into the Arena?

Into the Arena - go down
Into the Arena - show-down now
Into the Arena - the beasts are prepared
Into the Arena

I want to try and find a way to include the Pirate Song chorus, but sadly the title is just to...well...lame.

[Tossy]

I must say, you are a champion. Looks like I have a few nomads to buy

[viperidae99]

Any chance of seeing the Pirates in Steamroller section filled out soon? I'd be really interested in hearing some Shae tournament experiences, and specifically how the force behaves in common scenarios. Particularly the pitfalls to avoid that might not be obvious.

Also, 'bad matchups' is a frequent phrase used when talking about casters, but rarely spelled out. Who or what does a Pirate's Life list tend to fear most? I think I've heard blasts and continuous effects mentioned...

[TheSanityAssassin]

pFeora..... *shudder* Other than that, no idea. Never played Mercs in a tourney, always run my own Menoth. In fact, my eSevvy list would probably make quite a mess of them too.

[Osito]

Great write up Vytzka. I really enjoy playing Shae and the pirates, in particualr the Commodore Cannon.
However, I had one question... Are you sure the following statement is correct?

Also, and this should be stressed, you can put multiple different incentives on the same unit (Payday and Tough being the most common in my experience).

The way I have always played it in mk2, and thought it was supposed to be played was that you could spend more than one coin per turn, but each unit could only be affected by one incentive per turn. Thus, you could give Payday to your Sea Dogs, and then give money shot to the Commodore Cannon for instance in the same turn. But you could not give money shot and payday to the same unit of Sea Dogs for example.

Please correct me if I am mistaken, as I will change my playing habits.
Thanks again for a great informative article.
Osito

[raincaller]

Osito you are mistaken.

[PG_vytzka]

Great write up Vytzka. I really enjoy playing Shae and the pirates, in particualr the Commodore Cannon.
However, I had one question... Are you sure the following statement is correct?

Bookmark this
http://privateerpressforums.com/show...from-at-a-time

Any chance of seeing the Pirates in Steamroller section filled out soon? I'd be really interested in hearing some Shae tournament experiences, and specifically how the force behaves in common scenarios. Particularly the pitfalls to avoid that might not be obvious.

I've been holding back on it because truth be told I haven't got that many opportunities to play Steamroller 2011 scenarios yet due to usually running the events using them and theorymachine only takes you so far. But I'll try to hurry up.

Also, 'bad matchups' is a frequent phrase used when talking about casters, but rarely spelled out. Who or what does a Pirate's Life list tend to fear most? I think I've heard blasts and continuous effects mentioned...

There's a bit in the initial article IIRC. Table covered with AoEs. Blood Hag. Mass continuous effects. Crippling Grasp/Fear of God. Shadowpack makes it a lot more challenging.

[Osito]

I stand corrected. Thanks again for the great write up.
Osito
P.S. Worst wording ever on a card for ease of understanding.
Now if I can just get any of the 58 other players at my Game Store including either of the Press Gangers to believe that I can have 2 on a unit at a time...

[raincaller]

Tell them to go to the interwebs! Search "payday" in the rules forums thread. its easy to find.

[TheSanityAssassin]

As far as I know warmachine is a permissive ruleset....IE it doesn't tell you that you CAN'T anywhere on the card or in the books, therefor you can.....

[PG_vytzka]

Paymaster rule doesn't entirely not say that. Hence the (past) confusion.

[Thamarite Merc]

even a unit of Press Gangers with Payday (as you presumably don't have the Sea Dog Crew hogging coins) will likely do a lot better.

Shae will always try to have the coin-hogging Commodore with him, and the extra move won't help Pressgangers a lot without a second attack.
The Mangler upgrade is still 2 points cheaper, than even a min unit of PG, 4 points cheaper if you count Rockbottom, and its one out of five coins for boosting up to 6 P+S 9 attacks, or one more focus from the caster to boost a 1,5" reach Tresher attack with P+S 17...

Balance always has the disadvantage, that a lot of opponent are likely prepared for it. If you put all the eggs in one hand basket, your opponent will more likely be overwhelmed.

[raincaller]

The Mangler upgrade is still 2 points cheaper, than even a min unit of PG, 4 points cheaper if you count Rockbottom, and its one out of five coins for boosting up to 6 P+S 9 attacks, or one more focus from the caster to boost a 1,5" reach Tresher attack with P+S 17...

Touting infantry clearing potential and then comparing 6 boosted attacks at up to mat 7 and pow 11 vs 1 boosted attack at mat 6 you do realize you have to boost each hit separately?

Balance always has the disadvantage, that a lot of opponent are likely prepared for it. If you put all the eggs in one hand basket, your opponent will more likely be overwhelmed.

I find the opposite, playing a balanced list I always have something that can work, since I don't build my lists to combat a specific opponent its harder to be surprised by what my opponent lays down. An imbalanced list has the problem of more hard counters which can be totally crippling. a gunline vs bloody barnabas, or a gunline vs a menothian jackwall are 2 examples of Imbalanced list (gunline) vs more balanced lists that happen to hard counter the imbalanced list. The problem with putting all your eggs in one basket is when you arrive you sometimes find out that nobody want eggs.

[Thamarite Merc]

Touting infantry clearing potential and then comparing 6 boosted attacks at up to mat 7 and pow 11 vs 1 boosted attack at mat 6 you do realize you have to boost each hit separately?

No, I really don't realize that. If I want more damage, yes, but if the one boosted hit is higher than the DEF of all in the thresher, they all take damage. Or did I miss a rules change?

a gunline vs bloody barnabas, or a gunline vs a menothian jackwall are 2 examples of Imbalanced list (gunline) vs more balanced lists that happen to hard counter the imbalanced list. The problem with putting all your eggs in one basket is when you arrive you sometimes find out that nobody want eggs.

There are obviously different ways to balance/imbalance a list. I think a gunline, that consist of 'jacks, infantry and solos alike can be totally balanced, like in, every piece has something else, it is most susceptible to, and some attacks, that it can easily avoid.

When each and ever piece relies on high ARM and potentially some boxes, your opponent will usually only have the means to deal with one or two of your models at a given time. Add something squishy in there, without a huge amount of extra protection it will die almost immediately.
When all your guys live from their high DEF and Stealth, avoid clumsy blokes, that will just draw AoEs.
That is the reason all-jack lists or all-horde lists (or, maybe even solo spam) can work. Shae can't do all-jack well at 35+ points, but he has enough Focus to do 15 or, with Meg, 25 points.

[raincaller]

Thresher you have to roll to hit each model individually, boosting each attack individually. Thresher lets you make an attack on each model in your los and melee range. If there are 3 models that's 3 separate attacks each have to be boosted individually. Here is a link to the rules forum thread:here

Balanced/imbalanced,the problem runs up against stuff that is hard counter you don't have any models that possibly could mitigate your list deficits. Searforge vs Incorporeal models or high speed infantry. Or a magic heavy circle/ret list up against p/eGoreshade, Kromac, Any list with the menoth book of cheese etc. Granted you might not ever run into any of those lists but if you are attempting to play in a competitive environment you had better realize you may be up against any or all of those lists.

[Thamarite Merc]

Well, Searforge will have problems against incorporeal or high speed wether they go all 'jack, all infantry with only a token Driller or two Gunbunnies to get the free 'jack points, or any mix between that.

All incorporeal (or Vilmons Paladin wall, or maxxed out Khadorian 'jack heavyness) will hit Talion and Pirate's Life almost as hard, if you don't bring Lady Ayanna, or if you lose her early on, no matter what mix of Sea Dogs to 'jacks you use.
OTOH, If you just get overrun by McThralls and some cheap arcnodes, Lady Ayanna will be a waste of points, because your opponent balanced his list against her, and she just isn't killy enough against ordinary mass grunts.

And still, all Sea Dog or all 'jack might put lists under pressure, who haven't stacked up either their riot control or their tankbusters, while they would have enough of both, to deal with a balanced mix of equal Dogs and 'jacks. As I said, there are obviously different ways to imba a list. In the end, it probably comes down, to which models you prefer to paint, unless you already have a clear idea of what the meta likes/ your opponent will bring.

[raincaller]

If you just get overrun by McThralls and some cheap arcnodes, Lady Ayanna will be a waste of points, because your opponent balanced his list against her, and she just isn't killy enough against ordinary mass grunts.

Ayanna will be decent still as her partner has 4 attacks and Kiss of lyliss is model/unit so it effects an entire unit its cast on.

In the end, it probably comes down, to which models you prefer to paint, unless you already have a clear idea of what the meta likes/ your opponent will bring.

I think this is what it will come down to in the end.

[TheSanityAssassin]

So, I know you're still working on the Steamroller part, but any thoughts on what would be a good complement to a Shae list?

[PG_vytzka]

I'm seriously considering taking Shae and Magnus the Warlord to an upcoming Steamroller tournament (if I'm playing in it). My two favorite casters are Shae and Ashlynn and they just don't complement each other a lot (speaking of Highborn Ashlynn here; I don't play the theme force yet but I suspect it could make for a very effective board control list). I'll think about this and expand on the subject.

[Tossy]

1. How has this not been stickied?

2. How competitive is 'A Pirates life'? If I was taking it to tournament, would I stand a chance, or would it crash and burn to eFeora or eHarley... or either Vlad

[Ger]

I could make a decent guide to Shae in a tourny setting. Won't help anyone win but it'll show you some pitfalls to be concerned about.

The big issue with A Pirates life in a tourny is time. Time is my biggest enemy.

::EDIT::
It's likely plenty viable but it's going to be a harsh mistress.

[viperidae99]

I'm seriously considering taking Shae and Magnus the Warlord to an upcoming Steamroller tournament (if I'm playing in it). My two favorite casters are Shae and Ashlynn and they just don't complement each other a lot (speaking of Highborn Ashlynn here; I don't play the theme force yet but I suspect it could make for a very effective board control list). I'll think about this and expand on the subject.

I would be very interested in seeing how they go. Could be a cool combo.

[PG_vytzka]

This should not be stickied. The sticky proliferation is currently being solved by someone making an aggregated tactica thread which is where threads like these should go instead of soon having a first page full of stickies here

Also Ger I would love for you to chip in.

[Tossy]

Quick Question:

Do you have any tips about deployment?

I love playing Shae but I always feel like I am doing it wrong and win out of blind luck (like the Commadore Cannon knocking warbeasts into Casters... Twice).

[Tossy]

Actually I have another question (sorry, i value your advice)

How do you maneuver your troops/jacks. I tend to line them up with the Press Gangers on the flank(s) and put them as close to the deployment edge as possible and hope to get the charge 1st/2nd turn. It sounds stupid but has been working... however, I am sure there is a better way

[PG_vytzka]

Hmm. I usually have a lot of attention problems when playing so it's hard to keep to any kind of a plan but roughly it goes like this.

I always deploy everything in the normal deployment phase as far forward as possible. Thankfully I don't have Sea Dogs and Pressgangers crowding the place so that makes things easier. Pressgangers (I have one unit) usually go either on one flank or as the furthest forward screen. Sea Dog Crew is spread around liberally in the advance deployment zone, trying to be roughly in range of the solos.

Commodore Cannon goes on the edge of the zone as go jacks, usually middle of the table (and the jacks are usually close to each other and Shae). Important: if you're using a Freebooter to throw the cannon first turn, put a press ganger directly in front of the cannon and on the edge of advanced deployment zone and if possible make sure that spot is covered by both Doc and Bosun. That way when you throw the cannon at him he will be firmly in range (slightly less than 5" throw distance out of maximum 5.5") and has a 50% chance of surviving with no deleterious effects.

Then I just tend to move forward quickly, trying to keep a screen of either tough Sea Dog Crew or Press Gangers in front. Use Jury Rigged on the throwing Freebooter if you have to in order to catch up and attack the enemy in the second wave.

[PG_hendybadger]

Spotted in another thread you mentioned 3+ Nomads?
How many would your + be?

[Osito]

Too much good stuff in here to comment on it all. Thanks for the great write-up Vytzka.
I have assembled the second Nomad and will be trying to get it painted for the All Valley Invitational Qualifier this Sunday. I have once again been reminded of the fun that is the Pirates... Yarrrrrrgh!


Also note payday has recently been errata'd by an infernal to one incentive per unit per turn, but as many units per turn as coins. I think this was their intent all along, but the new steelhead caster made it a neccessity...

[Tossy]

Also note payday has recently been errata'd by an infernal to one incentive per unit per turn, but as many units per turn as coins. I think this was their intent all along, but the new steelhead caster made it a neccessity...

I am sure this is plain english, but it is something I am not sure I am getting my head around. Let's see. So I can put Payday on my seadogs and pressgangers in one turn but can't put payday and walk it off to a single sea dog unit? If that is right, that's the way I played all along... maybe I should have been more dodgy.

[PG_vytzka]

Yeah I have already corrected that part pees me off but what can we do?

@hendybadger, still at 3 for the time being. I'm going to purchase a fourth one and a second unit of PGs at some point but I'm expanding my other contracts at the moment.

[PG_Devilsquid]

I have to admit, your tactica definitely gives me desire to start up Pirates.


Yarr.

[PG_vytzka]

Don't fight it, Squid! Join the crew, we have bumbo and chocolate coins!

[PG_Devilsquid]

Well, after I am finished with my Pigs, I was going to roll right into the Gators, but while they're "cool", they're not really appealing to me theme wise.

Perhaps instead, I'll throw up the jolly roger. Maybe trade off my Legion army and Khadro surplus to aquire pirates?

[Robert Shepherd]

Khadro

Is that Khador's non-union Mexican equivalent?

[PG_hendybadger]

@hendybadger, still at 3 for the time being. I'm going to purchase a fourth one and a second unit of PGs at some point but I'm expanding my other contracts at the moment.

Just building my 2 PG units. But your really tempting mw into a 4th Nomad aswell

Well, after I am finished with my Pigs, I was going to roll right into the Gators, but while they're "cool", they're not really appealing to me theme wise.
Perhaps instead, I'll throw up the jolly roger. Maybe trade off my Legion army and Khadro surplus to aquire pirates?

Do it Devilsquid. Come join the crew!
You will never regret it.

[PG_Devilsquid]

Is that Khador's non-union Mexican equivalent?

No Hablo Kadroan.

[Pat Thompson]

Just a quick thanks to this thread for motivating me to get a Pirate Shae list. Played a 35 for the first time with Shae last night. Commodore slamming a Sea Dog over Deneghra for the win loved the list and what it could do! Looking forward to more!

[PG_Maeyrl]

Great thread overall. Awesome tactica to read!

Motivated me to go out and buy all the models and then some to start playing with them! Magnus and his agenda will have to be put on hold a bit

[Kalandros]

My Meta is very Hordes-Heavy with lots of very beast-heavy lists for obvious reasons and now Domination is coming to give everyone all the tools they needed against Warmachine - Legion gets a magic weapon beast that grants magic weapon to other beasts (plus the warlock using that animi too) which means Protectorate is gonna get it, Skorne is getting some crazy stuff as well which I already have a hard time dealing with as it is now (2 Bronzeback Titans + 2 Gladiators is almost impossible to deal with!)

Is it a bad time to start Pirates in a Hordes Heavy on Beasts meta?

Also wondering if I decide to go for Shae's list, how many warjacks should I be taking? I've seen suggestions of multiple nomads instead of freebooters but I'm not sure on this yet.