Seeking Advice

[Keegantir]

Let me preface this by saying that I have been playing Skorne since day one and towards the end of MKI I was winning about 85% of the games I played.

That being said I am having zero luck in MKII. I am getting crushed game after game.

For those that have had luck with MKII, what are you doing that is working for you?

I want to add that I don't like the Centrati and never have. I played them maybe 2 or 3 times in MKI. Unfortunately it looks like they are nearly and auto-include now, and that saddens me. I HATE playing bricks. I think they are boring and no fun. I like the spread out assault style tactics that Skorne had developed into at the end of MKI. I understand that that is the past and those tactics do not work anymore, but I am having trouble finding a playable strategy that is not the stupid brick.

I also want to add that most of the games I have played in MKII have been against Circle as that is the Hordes faction for almost everyone else I play against. I feel that they do everything we do, but they do it better. They are faster, they hit harder, they control the board better, they assassinate better. (See Bloodweavers vs Bloodrunners, Megalith vs Karn, Feral vs Glad, Pureblood vs Bronzeback, Kromac or pKaya vs eMorghoul, Reeves vs Venators, Whitemane vs AG.) In all of those Circle comes out ahead. In all of those, given the option, I would rather take the Circle model/unit.

[werecat]

Cetrati don't have to brick. They can be an anchor without your army having to cluster around them. Shield wall is there just to make sure they survive the trek up the field. Once you get there, you unleash hell. If your worried about them causing clustering, Just take the Tyrant Commander. Being able to shieldwall and walk up 7" is pretty rad.

But I feel your pain man. Sometimes I get a bad case of "greener on the other side".

[Deathraven]

Well I've had good luck with Mordikaar and I almost never field cetrati with him. In 35pt games I genrally use a full swordsmen unit to dice infantry and essense blast from and either arcuarii or venators for a hollow target backed up by a tyrant commander for maneuverablility. For beasts I stick to the high def cyclops to go with his feat and the krea to stop me getting shot up. I had a game today with a list like that vs Cryx and let me tell you, essence blast absolutely rocks against bane thralls!

[Tionas]

are you really saying that megalith is better than Karn?

Im just making sure i saw that right.

[Keegantir]

Lets compare:
Stat Megalith Karn Advantage
Points: 11 11 Equal
HP: 35 28 Megalith
MAT: 7 7 Equal
P+S: 16 16 Equal
Def: 10 13 Karn
Arm: 19 19 Equal

Now for the abilities that go beyond the stats.
Animus
Megalith: Undergrowth: A situational but useful animus.
Karn: Fate Walker: can be real good, but is also very situational.
Advantage: Equal

On Weapons:
Megalith: Weight of Stone
Karn: Combo Strike
Advantage Megalith

Other abilities:
Megalith: Construct, Pathfinder, Affinity [Baldur], Bountiful Restoration, Geomancy, Steady
Karn: Affinity [Makeda], Chieftain [Cyclops], Future Sight, Intuition, Side Step
Advantage Megalith without a doubt, due to Geomancy.

Overall they look close, but Megalith's extra 7 HP added to Geomancy make him hands down the better choice for the 11 points. If Karn was 10 points, or had fate ward as it was written at the beginning of MKII, it would be more balanced.

For instance, last night I charged Megalith with an enraged Karn. I made the mistake of using the combo strike instead of making two attacks, but that is only 1 or 2 points of damage lost on average. When all was said and done, Megalith had 12 HP left (On average an enraged Karn will do 24 DMG to a Stone Skinned Megalith). Megalith then counter attacked, with Stone Skin, and killed Karn (On average a Stone Skinned Megalith will do 36 DMG to Karn, more than enough to kill him and have one left over to kill more things with Geomancy). Yes, this is against one Warlock, and if I had been using one specific Warlock, it would have been a slightly different story, but either way, I was left with the feeling that my 11 point figure, was nothing compared to my opponents 11 point figure.

[DeathnGlory]

First game I played with Xersis and paingivers and Molik I totalled my Menoth opponent. Enrage, Fury and feat and both the Avatar and another heavy were completely destroyed in a single round.
Then he added 2 vassals to his list and I have got absolutely no where near him. Been having mighty big butt whoopin' since then.

When facing Orboros I think that the Extoller/Cannoneer combo is golden.

Maybe something like;
Lord Tyrant Hexeris
Titan Cannoneer
Titan Cannoneer
Immortals (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Praetorian Swordsmen (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Praetorian Swordsmen Officer & Standard
Extoler Soulward
Extoler Soulward
Tyrant Rhadiem

Sit Hexeris between the 2 titans protected by 2 diminishes (for area effect - I know they don't stack). The cannoneers can shoot anything in forests or with stealth without penalty and if the need arises Hexeris can shoot Ashes to Ashes into forests and Rhadiem is able to charge with Eyeless Sight at anything. Keep the Swordsmen spread out as a speed bump - but a speed bump with Vengeance and likewise Immortals have it too. Given the big guns - he will have to come to you - and you have decent mobility and denial. If Tharn still only get heart tokens from living models then upkeep hollow on the swordsmen instead. If he plays wolves/reeves then drop rhadiem for an AG and a BRMT.

This is just a thought. I wouldn't use it for Scenerio play but against sneaky Orboros it maybe OK.

[Keegantir]

First game I played with Xersis and paingivers and Molik I totalled my Menoth opponent. Enrage, Fury and feat and both the Avatar and another heavy were completely destroyed in a single round.
Then he added 2 vassals to his list and I have got absolutely no where near him. Been having mighty big butt whoopin' since then.

When facing Orboros I think that the Extoller/Cannoneer combo is golden.

Maybe something like;
Lord Tyrant Hexeris
Titan Cannoneer
Titan Cannoneer
Immortals (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Praetorian Swordsmen (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Praetorian Swordsmen Officer & Standard
Extoler Soulward
Extoler Soulward
Tyrant Rhadiem

Sit Hexeris between the 2 titans protected by 2 diminishes (for area effect - I know they don't stack). The cannoneers can shoot anything in forests or with stealth without penalty and if the need arises Hexeris can shoot Ashes to Ashes into forests and Rhadiem is able to charge with Eyeless Sight at anything. Keep the Swordsmen spread out as a speed bump - but a speed bump with Vengeance and likewise Immortals have it too. Given the big guns - he will have to come to you - and you have decent mobility and denial. If Tharn still only get heart tokens from living models then upkeep hollow on the swordsmen instead. If he plays wolves/reeves then drop rhadiem for an AG and a BRMT.

This is just a thought. I wouldn't use it for Scenerio play but against sneaky Orboros it maybe OK.

Are you using the old or new Extoller with that list? The new one needs souls to give eyeless sight, which means you have to be engaged with the enemy for it to work, not early as your opponent is hiding in the forest as you propose.

[DeathnGlory]

For instance, last night I charged Megalith with an enraged Karn. I made the mistake of using the combo strike instead of making two attacks, but that is only 1 or 2 points of damage lost on average. When all was said and done, Megalith had 12 HP left (On average an enraged Karn will do 24 DMG to a Stone Skinned Megalith). Megalith then counter attacked, with Stone Skin, and killed Karn (On average a Stone Skinned Megalith will do 36 DMG to Karn, more than enough to kill him and have one left over to kill more things with Geomancy). Yes, this is against one Warlock, and if I had been using one specific Warlock, it would have been a slightly different story, but either way, I was left with the feeling that my 11 point figure, was nothing compared to my opponents 11 point figure.

Keep in mind YOU CHARGED HIM!
If the Warcaster was Makeda then Karn has 1 attack at POW 23 + 3D6 and 5 attacks at POW 18 + 2D6. Average dam (27)
If it was Xersis then Karn has 1 attack at POW 21 + 4d6 and 5 attacks at POW 21 + 3d6 Average dam (58)
If it was pMorghoul then you have 1 attack at POW 20 + 3d6 and 5 attacks at POW 20 + 2d6 and he won't be able to be forced to buy extra attacks. Average dam (33 dam)
With eMorghoul he is at - 4 MAT/DEF and will miss a lot.

I see your point. The moral is to hit him with 2 warbeasts.

[DeathnGlory]

The new one. You do need souls - but hence the 12 swordsmen. Does anybody use them for anything else other than blocking and soul generation? Wow - I didn't think of that.

[Donesh]

Wait, Megaliths animus is situational? A 5" bubble of rough terrain and -2 Def is incredible. Unless you have Pathfinder or Reach its rather difficult to charge Megalith, and even models with Reach may have issues.

[Yertle4]

Karn is easily the weakest of the unique warbeasts, but probably has the best animus. A little more protection (intuition w/out spending fury) and Circular Vision and I'll call it even. If you want to deal large damage to a single target, play melee Titans.

[Kommissar Golovko]

For instance, last night I charged Megalith with an enraged Karn. I made the mistake of using the combo strike instead of making two attacks, but that is only 1 or 2 points of damage lost on average. When all was said and done, Megalith had 12 HP left (On average an enraged Karn will do 24 DMG to a Stone Skinned Megalith). Megalith then counter attacked, with Stone Skin, and killed Karn (On average a Stone Skinned Megalith will do 36 DMG to Karn, more than enough to kill him and have one left over to kill more things with Geomancy). Yes, this is against one Warlock, and if I had been using one specific Warlock, it would have been a slightly different story, but either way, I was left with the feeling that my 11 point figure, was nothing compared to my opponents 11 point figure.

I know it's a bit situational but you didn't Sidestep Molik out of the way? It's pretty useful and you can get into the back arc of the Megalith. Last night, I managed to eke out a 35 point game win against a Ret army. Enraged Molik charged and killed two models in the way of Ravyn allowing Molik to Sidestep into Reach distance of an already wounded Ravyn. Two bought and boosted to hit attacks and Ravyn was down.

The other game was 50 points against a Circle player and I mistakenly decided not to cover an arc of Xerxis so Kaya managed to tele a FWW in. I liked this game more even though I lost because it was a game of tactics and maneuver. The first game against Ret was really biding my time until Ravyn could be moved closer for the kill. I lost most of my army in that game with only Molik, a Brute, 2 Paingivers and Xerxis left.

35 points

Xerxis
Molik
Brute
Shaman
Bloodrunner MT
Rhadeim
min Ferox
min Paingivers
Tyrant Commander

50 points

Xerxis
Molik
Brute
Shaman
Bloodrunner MT
Rhadeim
min Arcuarii
min Cetratii
min Ferox
max Paingivers
Tyrant Commander

Not the best of combos esp for the 35 point army but I like the speed. Against a shooty list I know I'll have trouble but that's why I have the Cats to go after the shooters as early as I can.

[Deathraven]

Lord Tyrant Hexeris
Titan Cannoneer
Titan Cannoneer
Immortals (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Praetorian Swordsmen (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Praetorian Swordsmen Officer & Standard
Extoler Soulward
Extoler Soulward
Tyrant Rhadiem

Where's your auto include Gladiator? Seriously though, I'm glad someone is getting good use out the the extoller. I'm having trouble with mine due to needing souls for the eyeless sight before my enemy closes.