Kaya The Moonhunter (Epic Kaya): Tactica

[taffyjoe]

*edit - ninja'd!*

Guard Dog is an inate ability from Laris that only affects Kaya, providing several defensive buffs in close proximity to her.

Its part of the internal dichotomy of Kaya2, do you want Laris close to benefit from Guard Dog, or have Laris run farther upfield to arc dogpile or mussle or threaten a point to feat too. The answer of course, is both, and depends on the particular situation of the game.

Ghetorix is a beast with EKaya - P+S 23 and MAT 11 on the charge will finish just about anything, even a camping Campathrax (Venethrax) will take roughly 24 point of damge (assuming, primal, forced agression, free charge and 1 missed attack - for illustrative purposes only). The down side is no theme force.

The Winter Argus brings some anti-infantry, and an armour buff, which as pointed out, makes Kaya2 a very resilient 18/18 in combat or 16/16 + stealth to shooting, leaving her with a couple of tranfers, handy and some turns I have Kaya with fury to spare. There is some arguement as to whether extra transfers are preferable to extra Arm, but sometimes you need to dump/spend fury to take it off your beasts next turn, making yourself harder to kill is a good way to do this. The winter Argus is an ok option, its not the greatest beast in the world, but has its place with her, the duel sprays stack with a Beserk Stalker and Pureblood (spray/ghostly tramples) for anti-infantry and its a speed 7 slammer, it lacks the hitting power of the regular argus (combo-bite) though. Its also cheap enough to throw way for a good cause.

The Griffon fills a niche with EKaya's theme force of Solo hunter, its a good option for her.

None of these are released though, so expect people opinions to flesh out once they hit the shops, they'll certainly make me revisit Kaya2, and I won't be the only one, but they don't have as big an impact with her as other Dominion releases (Gallows Groves!) have with the other casters.

[Llael'sHope]

I see what you did there, next you'll be going on about how much "armour" she has, and what "colour" to paint her.

Leave it, don't change it just for us silly Americans.

I'm Born and raised American and spell all that stuff and others by the UK way, except tyres, that's just weird.

Anyways, what infantry options does everyone seem to find most effective? I'm thinking WoO with Morraig for a second Alpha powerstrike after the first hit and before her feat. I really don't have experience with either Kaya despite a couple years of Circle play. I fully understand her role as beast caster extraordinaire but am looking to mix it up a little bit. :-)

[AmonadRodrigues]

I'm Born and raised American and spell all that stuff and others by the UK way, except tyres, that's just weird.

Anyways, what infantry options does everyone seem to find most effective? I'm thinking WoO with Morraig for a second Alpha powerstrike after the first hit and before her feat. I really don't have experience with either Kaya despite a couple years of Circle play. I fully understand her role as beast caster extraordinaire but am looking to mix it up a little bit. :-)

I would always prefer her tier list. Its too good. But if you want to go out of tier, I'd recommend to go for the "all-stealthed-army". That would be blood-trackers, blood-weavers (upkeep-removal is a nice option), Lord of the feast, totem hunter. Even lists that have options to ignore stealth at range may have problems with that.

[Not So Feral]

Question on Dog Pile:

Does Kaya cast it on herself and can then use the effects within 10", or does she have to cast it on a beast specifcally?

The wording seems a bit strange to me.

[Mattho2k3]

Question on Dog Pile:

Does Kaya cast it on herself and can then use the effects within 10", or does she have to cast it on a beast specifcally?

The wording seems a bit strange to me.

I haven't played eKaya regularly in a while so I can't remember the specifics but Dogpile is marked on her spell card as offensive with 10" range. So she has to target a model with the spell and hit. I don't believe that it is warbeast specific so troops and solos benefit but check the card first.

[luker]

The OP suggests that wolds are nearly useless in an eKaya list, however I think I could find uses for a Warden or Megalith. It seems to me that Megalith can help out with his animus and by cycling Forced Evolution. With that said, however, I have never played eKaya, so that is just theorymachine. Are there any second opinions or other considerations regarding the Moonhunter and constructs?

I actually have used Megalith in 50 point games and he brings alot to the table being able to keep oh say Mulg at bay for a whole game for 3 fury.

There is also great synergy with the Stalker which now becomes mat 8 when necessary without having to primal.

He gives options. I like options

[luker]

"Its part of the internal dichotomy of Kaya2, do you want Laris close to benefit from Guard Dog, or have Laris run farther upfield to arc dogpile or mussle or threaten a point to feat too. The answer of course, is both, and depends on the particular situation of the game."

Stone shift Laris up and animus brings him back. Its a great combo.

[Patuljak]

I haven't played eKaya regularly in a while so I can't remember the specifics but Dogpile is marked on her spell card as offensive with 10" range. So she has to target a model with the spell and hit. I don't believe that it is warbeast specific so troops and solos benefit but check the card first.

Only beasties benefit from Dogpile.

I'm Born and raised American and spell all that stuff and others by the UK way, except tyres, that's just weird.

Anyways, what infantry options does everyone seem to find most effective? I'm thinking WoO with Morraig for a second Alpha powerstrike after the first hit and before her feat. I really don't have experience with either Kaya despite a couple years of Circle play. I fully understand her role as beast caster extraordinaire but am looking to mix it up a little bit. :-)

I like Bloodtrackers with her. They clear infantry which she can struggle with, and provide a nice after-feat screening unit/objective holder, which is also one of her weaknesses. There's the problem of character restrictions since you're going to want Nuala with other lists, and they also make her tier impossible, but with Ghetorix out I really don't care for the tier anymore. And I dislike Druids with her in the first place, I feel she needs a tarpit and objective holder, not an utility unit, and Skinwalkers just don't cut it for me in that regard.

[BigEaux]

Question on her Alpha ability that lets beasts run, charge, etc without being forced. During her feat turn, beasts still have to be in her 12" control for that to work correct? Her control isn't extended that turn. Therefore to get the free charges off you need to dog pile your target first?

[kaneblaise]

Question on her Alpha ability that lets beasts run, charge, etc without being forced. During her feat turn, beasts still have to be in her 12" control for that to work correct? Her control isn't extended that turn. Therefore to get the free charges off you need to dog pile your target first?

Yup, you got the right of it.

[taffyjoe]

"Its part of the internal dichotomy of Kaya2, do you want Laris close to benefit from Guard Dog, or have Laris run farther upfield to arc dogpile or mussle or threaten a point to feat too. The answer of course, is both, and depends on the particular situation of the game."

Stone shift Laris up and animus brings him back. Its a great combo.

Sorry, missed this originally.

This is indeed a good tactic, but sometimes you want Laris running wide (for e.g. the shift/faint and slide) to threaten the complete re-deploy of your battle group.

It's a strong part of her tactial deployment/strategy.

I've kind of rediscovered her recently, she has such fun tricks. But i'm not sure whether running her outside of tier, tier 1 or tier 4 is the way to go. All have merits.

[eliassmith27]

Question on her Alpha ability that lets beasts run, charge, etc without being forced. During her feat turn, beasts still have to be in her 12" control for that to work correct? Her control isn't extended that turn. Therefore to get the free charges off you need to dog pile your target first?

They only have to be in her control area when they declare the charge. so they can still free charge if you don't run Kaya too far away.

[langbenj]

But i'm not sure whether running her outside of tier, tier 1 or tier 4 is the way to go. All have merits.

Ghetorix with her is So tempting though. Not sure if it's worth dropping 6" of extra deployment for heavies though.

[Po the Barbarian]

The bumrush tactic in the original post has become a staple of my eKaya play so I wanted to contribute to the thread on the topic. I don’t have an overall thematic statement to make so I’ve just included a list of thoughts below that have occurred to me of late when playing with the bumrush.

• While I’ve played some goofball lists that focus on the tactic, I think this is viable tactic in a balanced list, typically tier four of her theme. For reference, at 50 typically I play with a wolf trinity, a gnarlhorn, druids, skinwalkers a wilder and 5 points of stones.
  
• I’ve been putting forced evolution up on the feral and warping him armor. 16/18 is a great defensive line, and your whole purpose is to give your opponent too much beast to chew through so you still have enough punch to take out their caster the next turn.
  
• I’ve been trying to use the gnarlhorn to position such that he limits the opponent’s ability to reposition on their turn due to counter slam. So far this has been difficult to pull off, but in a situation where you can dictate how a key heavy can approach your location, or when their caster can move it can be useful just to make your opponent have to think harder.
  
• Getting a good approach with Laris is key to the success of the tactic. Druids are great at clearing a path by pushing/pulling.
  
• Leaving Laris in a set of stones the turn before your feat is always good – if your opponent’s caster gets too close, you can port him over the lines and feat in, if they stay back you are in position to use your classic Laris tricks to teleport Laris, arc through him, then activate him and port back to Kaya without your feat.
  
• Skin walkers aren’t much for offense to begin with, so running them in for extra range can be useful – they hit as well or better on a free strike than a charge, and so long as whatever they engaged doesn’t fight your beasts, they’ve been successful. Another good reason to run is to try to force terror checks – while not reliable, forcing a few checks by spreading out to engage multiple units increases your chances of potentially taking a unit out of the game for the critical turn.
  
• Once I get into position, Kaya usually has 2 or 3 fury. I’ll typically want to try to load out my various beasts with reserves of fury since Kaya will be getting hit and the beasts will getting hit and dying. My goal is to have no (or very few) beasts maxed out so I can transfer, and fury on all beasts so Kaya can reave it when they die from non-transferred damage (and die they will!). The key thing about this is putting at least 2 fury on Laris even though he(she?) could run for free to get into position. This way your opponent has to figure out whether they want to kill Laris to remove guard dog and give you two more transfers. This is balanced out by not wanting have your surviving beasts full on fury and frenzying or unable to buy/boost enough to finish the opposing caster. Reave or not as beasts die depending on how many beasts it looks like you’ll lose and how many transfers you’ll have to make later in the turn.
  
• One generally good list composition that does support this strategy is to use a feral for your reinforcements. He makes an excellent addition to the bum rush, as warped for armor he can typically still do some damage if anything is in range when he comes in as a reinforcement on feat turn and then land by Kaya and be hard to chew through. That extra beast in reinforcement games really makes this strategy all the more valid by increasing the density of your heap of beasts by a significant percentage (i.e., 5 heavies vs. 4 is 25% more heavies jammed in, while for a typical turn two feat your opponent likely has about the same amount of stuff to use to deal with you because his reinforcements will still be on the side where they can’t affect the outcome of the game.)
  
  
• Contrary to my normal eKaya feat turn where I’m planning to feat back to the safety of counter magic with speedbump skinwalkers in front and stones and a wilder for fury management, for the bumrush I plan to leave that all behind. This changes a few things:
• You can’t max out as much fury on feat turn as you might otherwise, because you’ll ditch all your fury management tools on your side of the board
• You can skip normally key steps like druid countermagic or elemental immunity as the druids, as the druids and everything else near them are basically out of the game after this turn – you’ll win or lose independent of what they do, and an extra forcebolt or devouring can be helpful in clearing a path for Laris or trying to knock things over to limit retaliation.
  
  

I think I like this strategy because I’m not the best player out there, and I find eKaya vs. a strong scenario list or heavy troop spam less than ideal and this strategy adds significantly to her assassination threat against those lists for me. It is also great when my pre-feat turns don’t go well, I don’t like my odds, or I just can’t figure out something better.

I look forward to any tips or experiences the community has had with the tactic.

[Nephriel]

The model cannot advance after it is placed. This allows flexibility in the game plan, you can easily switch sides of the battlefield, jumping to a different control point in steamroller play. Giving an alternate path in the assassination run with Laris running 14”, eKaya placed within 2” and then reaching another 2” you can have a threat of 19” from Laris at anytime. If you have upkept dog pile on a target you can shift eKaya a potential 30” and still have your beasts charge and then teleport to you.

I'm just getting into the game (one match under my belt so far with pKaya) so forgive my noobishness but can someone help me get this a bit? Since eKaya only has a control area of 12" wouldn't Laris running 14" likely put him out of her control area denying her his animus as a spell? And how does Dogpile up it to 30"?

[kaneblaise]

Laris can run out to a point 12" (control area) + 7" (Kaya's speed) away from Kaya, then Kaya can advance 7", putting him just within her control area. She teleports using his animus to 2" on the other side of him (roughly 1.5" base diamater) = 12" + 7" + 1.5" + 2" = 22" or so.

Redo the math but with Dogpile's range instead of the 2" + base size for max range on that.

[Nephriel]

Ahhhh gotcha. Thank you very much.

[AmonadRodrigues]

No Shadowhorn love? eKaya is the reason to HAVE a Shadowhorn Satyr. I typically slap Forced Evolution on it in early rounds and just intimidate opponents up front or on flanks with that DEF17 against a charge and the added caveat of KD if they miss. If they don't take care of him, I'll toss his animus on himself, leap towards a good target and throw it to the wolves, in a manner of speaking. It's a very real threat from a usually sub-par warbeast.
My eKaya Holy Trinity is always a Shadowhorn, Pureblood and Stalker.

This. I would add the "forced evolution + reverse- combo" to the synergie section of the OP.

[Llael'sHope]

Only beasties benefit from Dogpile.



I like Bloodtrackers with her. They clear infantry which she can struggle with, and provide a nice after-feat screening unit/objective holder, which is also one of her weaknesses. There's the problem of character restrictions since you're going to want Nuala with other lists, and they also make her tier impossible, but with Ghetorix out I really don't care for the tier anymore. And I dislike Druids with her in the first place, I feel she needs a tarpit and objective holder, not an utility unit, and Skinwalkers just don't cut it for me in that regard.

I'm waiting on the Alpha, but have to think they will be much more viable with her once he gets here.