My thoughts on eFeora after a year with her in Mark II.

[PG_BloodRath]

I would love to see some battle reports. Please do post them.

well i only played her once. as per my usal i play harbinger in most games. her feat is just so good in alot of the SR 2011 scenarios. however the game i did play with her she train wrecked a cryx player. my list was as follows

eFeora +6pts
Templar 8pts
Vanquisher 8pts
Redeemer 6pts (Bonded)

Avatar 11pts

Flameguard 6pts
^Flameguard UA 2pts (full)

Madelyn 2pts
Covenant 2pts
Vassal (2) 4pts
Choir 3pts (full)
Reclaimer 2pts
Mechanik 1pts
Wracks 1pts

more or less as much as i like 2 vanquishers, I bring the bonded redeemer to set things in the back of their army on fire. its great for burning out support they think are safely out of range. lets face it 7" walk plus skyhammer's god range is alot of distance. in this game i had all 4 skyhammer shots deviate onto the cryx character unit erasing them before they saw any feild time. i used the tfg as a fast squishy unit so the turn my jacks charge in the templar will be fully loaded. i just run them in Iron zeal to the middle of the table and ask for death. however, all of this really proved to be moot. on my second turn over half the cryxian force was on fire and my redeemer and vanquisher had opened a hole infornt of denegra so wide i could drive a battle wagon through it. (ahh the glory of devaiting aoe's) at the beginning of my turn Madelyn had given me 3" of free movement. feora activates. fire stepped, feated recived a trillion focus, charged and turned denegra into a pile of smoldering ash. so in short the MVP's of this game were the bonded redeemer and Madelyn for extra movent goodness. as much as i like the bonded Templar it it still opperates as a mini avatar without the extra focus and flameing attacks.

[PG_69Lazarus]

I took the TFG out of my list after the first 5 games or so. I replaced them with Zealots + MB and never looked back. Combined with a Castigator, they project damage far better and are damn near as survivable.

[PG_BloodRath]

Never really been a big fan of zealots with eFeora. She already brings lots of aoe troop killing just to start fires and she has anti infinty her self. I also find the castigator ineffective the things he does have that cause fire typically just kill off the infinty I would like on fire for my feat turn and he can't do it at range. I like to set my enemy on fire before I clash with the. IMHO TFG surve as a better eFeora unit becuase they have better survivablity and when given the opertunity they too can set things on fire. Also don't underestimate their CMA you get a full unit to participate in a CMW against a warbeast and you can cause some serious damage.

[PG_69Lazarus]

Never really been a big fan of zealots with eFeora. She already brings lots of aoe troop killing just to start fires and she has anti infinty her self. I also find the castigator ineffective the things he does have that cause fire typically just kill off the infinty I would like on fire for my feat turn and he can't do it at range. I like to set my enemy on fire before I clash with the. IMHO TFG surve as a better eFeora unit becuase they have better survivablity and when given the opertunity they too can set things on fire. Also don't underestimate their CMA you get a full unit to participate in a CMW against a warbeast and you can cause some serious damage.

Originally, I wasn't fan of them either. However, after trying them several times in my list instead of the TFG I was sold on them. I had a unit that I could stuff an opponent with should I need it (greater destinty) and they were FAR more reliable about setting stuff on fire with her feat, than my TFG ever dreamed of being able to do (and from safety I might add). I'm usually setting plenty of stuff on fire w/ 4 Redeemer shots as is so fire hasn't been much of an issue so far. I also try to make the enemies heavier targets (that tend to survive) be the ones on fire, that way during my feat turn, I'm moving all of those + the 7-10 extra I'm generating on my side which is usually good enough to decimate most infantry.

[PG_BloodRath]

Originally, I wasn't fan of them either. However, after trying them several times in my list instead of the TFG I was sold on them. I had a unit that I could stuff an opponent with should I need it (greater destinty) and they were FAR more reliable about setting stuff on fire with her feat, than my TFG ever dreamed of being able to do (and from safety I might add). I'm usually setting plenty of stuff on fire w/ 4 Redeemer shots as is so fire hasn't been much of an issue so far. I also try to make the enemies heavier targets (that tend to survive) be the ones on fire, that way during my feat turn, I'm moving all of those + the 7-10 extra I'm generating on my side which is usually good enough to decimate most infantry.

i can see what you mean. i have been considering getting zealouts to run with vindictus. i havent purchased either yet. however i do have two units of TFG that i orignally bought to run her tier. so avaliblity is key for me. i will have to try that in the future

[Deacis]

Great post. I even started playing and thinking about lists with her just because of it. After a practice game I came up with the following list, based on yours, but tweaked to my own style and a bit more aggressive imo:

Feora, Protector of the Flame (*6pts)
* Fire of Salvation (9pts)
* Vanquisher (8pts)
* Vanquisher (8pts)
Avatar of Menoth (11pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Temple Flameguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard (2pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
The Covenant of Menoth (2pts)
The Wrack (3 wracks) (1pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

FoS: bonded to eFeora he's an animal with full focus, battle hym and ignite. I like him better then the templar (also don't have the model and do have FoS) because of the extra maintenance move, which is even more dangerous because of escort (15" effective threat range).

TFG: a full unit with ua can spread a large area and run up with iron zeal to engage stuff waiting for the jacks to arrive. Also fuel FoS for his extra move. Auto-fire helps Feora too.

Eiryss for focus/upkeep removal to assist in possible assassination runs from eFeora or FoS.

Haven't tried the list out yet in this current form, but I'm looking forward playing it a while and see if I can master eFeora

[PG_BloodRath]

Great post. I even started playing and thinking about lists with her just because of it. After a practice game I came up with the following list, based on yours, but tweaked to my own style and a bit more aggressive imo:

Feora, Protector of the Flame (*6pts)
* Fire of Salvation (9pts)
* Vanquisher (8pts)
* Vanquisher (8pts)
Avatar of Menoth (11pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Temple Flameguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard (2pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
The Covenant of Menoth (2pts)
The Wrack (3 wracks) (1pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

FoS: bonded to eFeora he's an animal with full focus, battle hym and ignite. I like him better then the templar (also don't have the model and do have FoS) because of the extra maintenance move, which is even more dangerous because of escort (15" effective threat range).

TFG: a full unit with ua can spread a large area and run up with iron zeal to engage stuff waiting for the jacks to arrive. Also fuel FoS for his extra move. Auto-fire helps Feora too.

Eiryss for focus/upkeep removal to assist in possible assassination runs from eFeora or FoS.

Haven't tried the list out yet in this current form, but I'm looking forward playing it a while and see if I can master eFeora

FOS cant be bonded to eFeora its says non charter jack in her bond and only charter jacks with affinity can bond to the warcaster they have afinity for

[Necra-Chi]

Love the write up, love the list. It looks very similar to what I would play with Reznik, but that would be a lot better with E-Feora (speed buffs and utilising all the fire). But I play Protectorate to play Reznik, and I play Legion to win. Id probably want to get the reckoner and rhoven in there though.

[Deacis]

FOS cant be bonded to eFeora its says non charter jack in her bond and only charter jacks with affinity can bond to the warcaster they have afinity for

Completly missed that, now the choice for a templar also makes more sense to me.

[FearMeMortals]

I like to play eFeora very jack heavy. I enjoy running lights with her.

eFeora
^Redeemer
^Reckoner (Bonded)
^Repenter
^Vanquisher

Avatar

6xChoir

Wracks

=35

I bond the Reckoner because he's a bit faster so gets into the thick of things a bit faster.

eFeora
^Redeemer
^Repenter
^Vanquisher
^Reckoner

Avatar

6xChoir
10xKEE
^UA

Covenant
Gorman
Wracks
Rhupert
Vassal

=50

The 50 pointer is a bit more well rounded, but a Jack heavy eFeora list can be a great off list in a tournament because some factions / lists will really struggle to deal with all the high ARM.

[Volaguera]

I like to play eFeora very jack heavy. I enjoy running lights with her.

eFeora
^Redeemer
^Reckoner (Bonded)
^Repenter
^Vanquisher

Avatar

6xChoir

Wracks

=35

I bond the Reckoner because he's a bit faster so gets into the thick of things a bit faster.

eFeora
^Redeemer
^Repenter
^Vanquisher
^Reckoner

Avatar

6xChoir
10xKEE
^UA

Covenant
Gorman
Wracks
Rhupert
Vassal

=50

The 50 pointer is a bit more well rounded, but a Jack heavy eFeora list can be a great off list in a tournament because some factions / lists will really struggle to deal with all the high ARM.

Wouldn't what you added to get from 35 to 50 (10 KEE w UA, Covenant, Gorman, Rhupert, Vassal) be 18 points, not 15?

[benihana]

Ive recently started playing eFeora, and she seems like a powerhouse so far. so much so that im considering her for one of my lists when Lock & Load comes around. Anyways one of the most effective ways ive found to set lots of targets on fire is with the Exemplar Errants, Errant Seneschal, Covenant of Menoth combo. Covenant gives all there weapons and with Hunter from the Seneschal and the basic blessed weapon they can expect to hit DEF 12-13 regardless of buffs or terrain. Ive been doing

eFeora -6
* Redeemer 6 ~BONDED~
* Vanquisher 8
* Reckoner 8
* Hierophant 2
Avatar of Menoth 11
Choir of Menoth (min) 2
Exemplar Errants (max) 8
*Officer & Standard Bearer 2
Exemplar Errant Scheneschal 2
Covenant of Menoth 2
Wracks 1
Vassal of Menoth 2
Vassal of Menoth 2

Using the Reckoner in much the same way as the Templar was used before except for the bond being on the redeemer for some all you can set on fire rocket buffet. delicious.

[PG_Menite Messenger]

Obviously most of the discussion here is for 35+ points, for obvious reasons. How do people feel she rates at a smaller scale of only 15 or 25 points. Got a few new players around at the moment, so its not often i get the chance to field a larger force. Its obviosly harder to bring he attrition game to a small points scale, so my lists tend to be more assassination orientated, would be interested to know if the kinds of tactics your using here would work at a smaller scale.

MM

[PG_69Lazarus]

Ive recently started playing eFeora, and she seems like a powerhouse so far. so much so that im considering her for one of my lists when Lock & Load comes around. Anyways one of the most effective ways ive found to set lots of targets on fire is with the Exemplar Errants, Errant Seneschal, Covenant of Menoth combo. Covenant gives all there weapons and with Hunter from the Seneschal and the basic blessed weapon they can expect to hit DEF 12-13 regardless of buffs or terrain. Ive been doing

I've tried the same but it's usually more important for me to have no knockdown from the book (depending on opponent). I also just dropped my Errant Seneshal in favor of 4 more Zealots. Now, when my full sized Zealot + MB unit hugs my Castigator and it combusts - I spread 11 fire tokens from that alone. Really seems to irritate my opponents. Add that to what the Redeemer has already managed to set on fire and that means my enemeies whole army is usually burning.

In MK I, there were lots of people that thought that you shouldn't be able to attack your own models or benefit from their deaths etc. I don't view this the same way since none of mine are dying. I like to prefer to think they are harvsting Menoth's righteous flames and hurling it onto the unbelievers.

[FearMeMortals]

:O surround your castigator with zealots under GD and combust setting them on fire then feat ... that's genius

[benihana]

Was better in MK1 when you got focus for your own stuff too... was pretty hax though. if i remember right, the record for most focus gained in one feat turn during a tournament was like 42 or something ridiculous like that.

[Rude Vegetable]

Obviously most of the discussion here is for 35+ points, for obvious reasons. How do people feel she rates at a smaller scale of only 15 or 25 points. Got a few new players around at the moment, so its not often i get the chance to field a larger force. Its obviosly harder to bring he attrition game to a small points scale, so my lists tend to be more assassination orientated, would be interested to know if the kinds of tactics your using here would work at a smaller scale.

MM

My favourite 15 pt. mangled metal lists are with eFeora:
eFeora
-Templar (bonded)/Castigator
-Reckoner (bonded if I'm using a Castigator)
-Devout/Repenter

[DarkAlliance]

I have just started looking at her as my third caster of choice (behind eSevvy and Harbinger) and am going to play a few games with this:

eFeora
Redeemer (bonded of course)
Castigator
Templar
Baby Choir
Baby Flameguard Cleansers
Daughters
Gorman
eEiryss
Rhupert
35pts

I guess the obvious question is whether to have a Reckoner in there instead of one of the other 2 heavies (as previously discussed elsewhere in this thread), but I am forcing myself to play some games WITHOUT my go to jack! I was kind of thinking something along the lines of being able to lay down 2 clouds in the first/second turn with Gorman and the Cleansers, so as to advance the infantry forward behind them. @jacks would get passage/shielding as appropriate. Rhupert to boost the Daughters.

Following on from that, I was kinda thinking about the two big billy bonuses from the Castigator of Combustion and 2 handed throws, depending upon the situation. Maybe clearing lanes for the Templar to hack his way through to the enemy caster. Suitably aided by typical Gorman shenanigans etc etc.

I do see a lot of fun shenanigans with Fire Step, followed by spell assassination on a feat turn! 22" threat range with Convection...

[Zhil]

phatasian,

I really like your list but just a few questions:

1) Do you find the equal choir to Jacks a liability where just one or two kills on the choir can hamper you?

2) How useful have you found the Wracks? (Would you consider using this point to increase choir size)

3) How useful have you found the two mechaniks in consideration for a different 2 point solo (for possible solo hunting)?

Naturally, I'd appreciate discussion from others on these too

[benihana]

equal choir to jack ratio isnt necessarily bad, most of the time there far enough back that there not really in any danger the problem ive been having with only one choir is keeping them in formation when the Avatar is running around the field away from the battlegroup.

as for the Wracks, Ive found them to be excellent in the list. you can upkeep Escort and Ignite, allocate the other 4 and still be able to cast firestep if necessary with the Hierophant's Harmonious Exaltation.

I'm also not sure about the mechanics. I find myself every 4th game or so wishing I had them, but most of the time there wasted points for me.

[PG_phatasian]

phatasian,

I really like your list but just a few questions:

1) Do you find the equal choir to Jacks a liability where just one or two kills on the choir can hamper you?

2) How useful have you found the Wracks? (Would you consider using this point to increase choir size)

3) How useful have you found the two mechaniks in consideration for a different 2 point solo (for possible solo hunting)?

Naturally, I'd appreciate discussion from others on these too

1) I have no idea why but usually my jacks die at about the same rate as my choir. I baby the heck out of them and keep them in the way back. There are times when I have fewer choir than I have jacks but usually it's not a big deal. Usually a vanquisher doesn't care all that much or the avatar doesn't.

2) Love Love Love the wracks. On the first turn with wracks you can cast ignite, escort and run with all your jacks. Also, If I find a situation where I want to cycle ignite it helps a ton. And it never hurts to camp an extra focus =).

3) I'm sort of iffy on the mechanics. They either do Nothing or fix the avatars sword arm =) which is sweet. They also tend to draw fire away from the choir. Don't ask why they just do. I hunt solos with 11" + beatback on the templar and with 4" autofire aoes. Seems to work for me. What would you put in for those 2 points ?

[chunky04]

I'm going to a tourney this weekend phatasian with my own brand of eFeora (from your F&F thread) - hopefully I'll be able to give some feedback on how it goes.

[Cacophonous]

What do you do about an opposing Gorman, seeing as how he's near ubiquitous? Fire immunity + Black Oil (or Rust) tossed on your "brick" seems like bad news.

Also, thanks for the detailed analysis! One of the best I've read, and immensely helpful to this newb.

[PG_Crump]

phatasian, have you considered cutting a Mechanic to go Max Choir?

[gypsyrogue]

Hi i'm new to menoth and fairly new to the game. Just wanted to say a great post! Also to say to those lists above....NO Mechanics!? lol look at the original guys list and you'll see they make sense in sutch a jack heavy list!

[Craaag]

To the OP just out of curiosity because I'm thinking of purchasing them... and I do know they are generally frowned upon by the majority of our Protectorate players here but I'll ask anyways.

Were you to sub out the Bastion unit for Cinerators how do you think they would have fared in your games? Would they not have been durable enough to have made a difference? I noticed that you say the Bastions rarely get to kill anything but perform their role anyways. Would the Cinerators have been able to weather much of what the Bastions weathered and then because of the speed bonus a few of them manage to actually kill something? They still do block the same LOS though it is easier to open a hole through them...

[Image]

The durability of the Bastions is likely due to Sanguine Bond, plus because of reach, they have a higher defensive zone. As in, if he's trying to avoid things getting around them, the reach helps as it's a greater chance of a free strike.

For his list, I imagine the Bastions are the better bet, but perhaps the cinerators would be a fair substitute.

[PG_KestrelM1]

Holy thread-o-mancy.

Anyway, to address the question, the Bastions from the original list are absolutely NOT interchangeable with Cinerators. The whole point of the Bastions is that they eat up important real estate on the board to allow the jacks to shoot from relative safety and get their charges off.

Imagine that you are the opposing player and standing between your Warjack/Beast and a Vanquisher is a Cinerator. In order to remove the Cinerator and get your charge off, you have to inflict 8 points of damage on an ARM17 model. So you bring forward one heavy hitter (or possibly just use ranged attacks) and get your charge off. No big deal, right?

Now imagine that the model in the way is a Bastion. In order to remove that Bastion and get your charge off you have to inflict at least 40 points of damage on an ARM16 model. Keep in mind that every heavy hitter you bring forward to inflict the damage is going to be left swinging in the breeze for the Warjacks behind to charge or shoot at.

The whole point of the Bastions (as explained at length in the OP) is that they force your opponent to bring forward their heavy armor killers in order to remove them. This leaves them ripe for a counter-charge that will leave their list without a means to deal with your high-ARM models. Once this happens, the game is basically yours, as your opponent will be unable to kill eFeora.

[arkiboy]

Army:
Type: Duel (1 caster, 35pts)
Points: 35
Feora, Protector of the Flame (*6pts)
* Templar (8pts)
* Vanquisher (8pts)
Avatar of Menoth (11pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Exemplar Bastions (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts)
The Covenant of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

I often run this list. I sometimes switch out the covenant for another vassal or gorman. Though the times I switch out the book I curse myself because I end up getting knocked down all over the place.

I like the TFG a ton and will most likely do some testing with them in there. I should also say that I have found winning games is tied to your own personal style. I would highly recommend putting stuff in your lists that work for you so experiment and find your groove =).

I don't own an avatar any other options? How about a Reckoner and a Vassal as replacement?
Feora, Protector of the Flame (*6pts)
* Templar (8pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
* Vanquisher (8pts)
Avatar of Menoth (11pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Exemplar Bastions (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts)
The Covenant of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth
Wracks

[cryptomancer]

This is quite an interesting way to play her. I think I like it. I've long been a fan of the Dual Vanquishers listbuild, or as the Order of the Wall calls it, "Flaming Pie Plate Stance". I would have to say, though, that I likes me some more disposable troopers. To that end, I think I'd have to drop Ghorman, the Covenant and a Mechanic for a unit of Daughters. A 14" Acrobatics run range is like having a tar catapult, never mind pit. Maybe keep the Covenant, drop both Mechanics and the Wrack. Slamproof Heavies are delightful.

-Crypto

[Vinsklortho]

1) I have no idea why but usually my jacks die at about the same rate as my choir. I baby the heck out of them and keep them in the way back. There are times when I have fewer choir than I have jacks but usually it's not a big deal. Usually a vanquisher doesn't care all that much or the avatar doesn't.

Same thing happens to me as well. Its a very rare time when I have less choir than jacks and even then there is usually one jack that can be triaged.

[Vinsklortho]

I guess I haven't listed to Focus and Fury's most recent podcast, but why do they hate on eFeora? I don't know if there is a Menoth caster I own that people hate to face more than eFeora(except maybe Harbinger and occasionally Testament).

[PG_Steampunk Jim]

I don't own an avatar

WHYYYYYYY? Why?

(just kidding, but WHY?)

[IridiumFire]

Sorry to be coming into this thread a bit late, but it's my mates fault for getting me to look at using eFeora!!

Anyway, this has been a superb thread. You have a great list Phantasian! Certainly suits my style a lot, but I'm looking at making a couple of changes for personal taste.

I do have a question though. Have you considered replacing one of the Vanquishers and a Mechanik for a Vessel of Judgement? I've not used one yet, but was wondering if it would work in a list like this. It's miracle that pushes enemy models 4" also puts on them. That's potentially quite a few models on fire at the same time as moving them off scenario points etc

I originally considered swapping the Bastions for Cinerators (just as an excuse to use them!) because they have the Flame Burst ability. But then realised you can just give the Bastions Flames of Wrath from the Covenant, which is effectively the same thing!

[Falcon]

I have just bought the original list and played 2 games with it so far at my local game store
one against khador and one against legion
won both
i have to say i love efeora but i couldnt find a list that was me
this list is so much fun
they run in and i bring the fire

[Tera]

I've seen some players use VOJ with great success. The VoJ is very survivable to shots with armor 20, 24 boxes and immunity to fire (against legion and menoth). Efeora can also hide behind it and spray with her 10inch flamethrower without damaging the Vessel. Another interesting tactic I saw was using the VOJ's eruption of faith to light enemy models on fire and then utilizing efeoras feat to gain extra focus to allocate to jacks or going for the caster kill. If feora's assassination fails you still have 2 more ways to dish damage, the pow 12 continuous fire might be the game ender or if not then theres still the possibility of using the vessel's Doors of Judgement.

[tehhelios]

How does this list do against t4 harkevich?(khador) basically jacks, mows, mechanics, mortars and all his jacks have pathfinder.
or eVlad (weaponmasters, ternions)

basically fishing on which of my 2 list is best vs menoth for my first tourney.. 35p though..

[Okudave]

Ever thought of using eFeora bond on a redeemer? With a ROF 3 and AOE 3" you can fire them up faster for the feat turn and Menoth's light 'jacks kicks good.

[Fenryx]

I was running Phatasian's list in a tournament this weekend, and I ran it into an eMadrak list... Are Trollbloods as bad of a match up for this list as I think they are? In particular, the Krielstone UA neuters her feat, and the Krielstone itself puts most troll infantry above the range where blast damage from the Vanquishers can deal with them.

Hordes of Medium bases that stop tramples. Tuffalos rushed in and jammed my small footprint very quickly, as I was playing second. It was over by the time I got my second turn, essentially. I was hemmed in by the Tuffalos and couldn't break through to the zone he had flooded with infantry (Sacrifice scenario).

Perhaps it was just this instance of a Trollblood army?

[stormshaft]

Played a game last night with more or less the same list you first posted, but I exchanged the Covenant with Lady Madelyn since I want to use the book in another list.

I went up against eKruegers NQ-theme list and we played the Close Quarters scenario which I thought would be really neat with the list.

Sadly though, all the Druids were made immune to my Vanquishers shooting otherwise this would've been a walk in the park, as it turned out my opponent missed with his assassination-run (those stones and telekinesis make for a hell of a long threat range) and in the following turn I smashed eKruegers face.

I felt that the menite denial game was working excellently with the list, the only ones he could target with his spells were the Bastions, and after three turns of Geomancy, Warlock and Druid spellcasting and Shrimp (Woldstalkers) shooting, I still had two Bastions left and all of my Warjacks were unharmed thanks to Hymn of Shielding and the Avatars natural defenses against magic.
It was a real blast to play even if I couldn't shoot the Druids, I put a lot of boxes on his advance deployed Woldwardens with 4 Vanquisher shots á turn.

Next time I will put in the Covenant though, and reformat my other list since I can definately see the value of it in a list like this, no Knockdown or no Magic means serious business against any army I will be up against, plus it is very nice to be able to hide Feora behind it or have it as a charge target to catch enemy models in the feat.

All in all, superbly fun to play with and I will let it see more table time from now on.