Light Cavalry

[Splurk]

So, light cavalry cannot ride-by-attack. I'm just wondering if that doesn't make sense to anyone else. It seems to me that being light cavalry means they are more maneuverable, which would make them better at riding in getting an attack and then getting back out quickly.

Thoughts.

Also, I considered putting this in the rules forum but this isnt a rules question so much as a discuss what we already know question.

[Halfhoot]

They get a 5" move after action right? Isn't that better than a ride by attack? I can move my full move, shoot, then move 5" afterwards? I'm not entirely up on cav rules so I could be wrong there... but that seems like it would make up for ride-by x 2.

[Frozen Yakman]

Halfhoot is correct.

[Lanz]

the light cav movement is pretty good, really. It lets them cover a lot of ground without just breaking them by having like spd 14 or something.

[PG_Pszito]

I feel that the post-activation move is certainly quite acceptable as an alternative, however it functions differently enough that it can't pull the same maneuvers. Ride-by allows for multiple models to get in, hit the same target (typically with reach and tall-on-the-saddle), then continue out of the way before the next model even moves. With the post-action light cav move, the whole unit has to resolve it's movement then resolve it's action which doesn't typically allow that many large base models to cram their attacks into a small space. It feels pretty moot as none of this ignores free strikes which would shred most any cav unit on the way out. To me, that says that the light cav move is better especially when you factor in any units with ranged attacks. What I feel we really traded the move for is impact attacks, the sheer damage potential of multiple impact attacks is devastating much less the ability to continue your charge after. Cant complain, however, having one of the fastest units in the game with deadly ranged attacks that also have a decent melee game is not something I'd trade for clunky, restricting heavy cav. That is Legion's playstyle, that is why I like them.

[Mod_Redphantasm]

Light Cavalry do not get to make ride by attacks because they already get something better: the light cavalry move.

A regular cavalry must be ordered to make a ride by attack. He then moves any number of inches up to his current SPD, makes one attack (melee or ranged), and then may move any number of inches that he has left.

A light cavalry may move any number of inches up to his current speed, make all of his attacks (weapons and mount attack), then advance up to 5" after all models in the unit have completed their activation.

[Lanz]

Another big advantage of the Light cav movement rule vs normal cav ride-by-attacks, is that the rule for light cav is passive and always active, and thus can be performed with charges, which the normal cavalry can't do. It's either Cavalry charge or ride-by attacks with normal cav, can't get both.

[FerrusManus]

makes one attack (melee or ranged)

That is incorrect, you perform your full combat action during ride-by attack.
Both Ride-By Attack and Light Cavalry Movement has it's own advantages and disadvantages, though I personally think LCM is a bit better since it doesn't uses up orders (and cavalry is pretty reliant on charge).

[Martyr of the Cause]

Impact attacks are easy to undervalue, but they can easily make a good mess of a front line of troops.

Ride By Attacks are very situational, but can be nice for moving into a narrow corridor, making a hit, then moving out so the next cav model can do the same, or moving out from something blocking LOS to shoot, then moving back to being totally blocked.


That said, having a 2nd movement and guaranteed extra melee hit is way cool, but Light Cav also has light armor, and tends to die easier than heavy cav. It's just about trade-offs.

[Mastershake]

I can't even begin to think that Ride By Attacks are even on the same level as Light Cav movement. One gives your models free movement every activation as long as they didn't run or forfeit actions and the other is an order that keeps you moving at normal speed, but lets you attack in between. One is clearly better than the other, period. Ride by attacks might occaisionally give an advantage by allowing models to go in sequence, but using it for melee attacks is a joke and the punchline is that it doesn't ignore free strikes and most heavy cav lack Reach when not charging.

Impact attacks are alright, but with light cav already getting extra mount attacks the damage output is pretty similar. Then you have the classic trick of trying to impact one group to charge something behind, but Murphy's law says you won't kill all of the models blocking your path and your Cav will be stuck with vacant expressions like a bunch of lemmings.

Talking about resiliency of a unit has more to do with stats than the differences between the respective cavalry types. Lets face it, if you had the option to make your faction Cav light or heavy without changing anything else about them, would anyone here seriously choose heavy?

[Necra-Chi]

If you need to kill something too close to charge and you also need to end your turn more than 5" away, ride by attack is strictly better. That sounds situational but if the opponent doesn't have reach and you do, its safe, and games often end up as a big scrum so I see it happening a lot.

[PG_petegrrrr]

And since so much light cav has ranged, you can also forfeit movement to aim if you want, and then retreat 5 inches. It's like super bushwack.

I really can't see a way in which the light cav move is just not staggeringly better.

[Lanz]

And since so much light cav has ranged, you can also forfeit movement to aim if you want, and then retreat 5 inches. It's like super bushwack.

I really can't see a way in which the light cav move is just not staggeringly better.

Actually, this is where the normal Cavalry have it better, and we'll see Retribution's Destors abusing this heavily once players start getting them in their hands.

Normal Cav can activate and get a ride-by order, move 0", shoot, then move back their full 8", effectively a full bushwack. For most cavalry this is just meh, but Destors will be rng14 after Snipe, and that paired with ride-by and ARM17 gives them some mean, mean skirmishing potential that a lot of other cav would be jealous of.

[PG_petegrrrr]

Yes, but they can't AIM and do it.

I'll give up a few inches of movement for the +2 to hit. That's why it's super bushwack.

[Northern Ronin]

So, light cavalry cannot ride-by-attack. I'm just wondering if that doesn't make sense to anyone else. It seems to me that being light cavalry means they are more maneuverable, which would make them better at riding in getting an attack and then getting back out quickly.

Thoughts.

Also, I considered putting this in the rules forum but this isnt a rules question so much as a discuss what we already know question.

I'm confused, what part of charging and then pulling out again is less maneuverable then moving half your speed or so, hitting and moving half your speed again? The trade off isn't that you 'lose' ride by attack, it's that you lose Impact attacks. Which makes sense if you're on a steed not breed to smash through formations.

[Lanz]

Yes, but they can't AIM and do it.

I'll give up a few inches of movement for the +2 to hit. That's why it's super bushwack.

No, they can't.

Instead they can shoot twice when they aim and get the bonus on both shots. If they could do that then move, they'd just simply be broken. +2 with a 5" movement, or the option of twice as many shots with no move, or shoot without a +2 and move 8. Having options will go a long way for Destors.

I'm confused, what part of charging and then pulling out again is less maneuverable then moving half your speed or so, hitting and moving half your speed again? The trade off isn't that you 'lose' ride by attack, it's that you lose Impact attacks. Which makes sense if you're on a steed not breed to smash through formations.

The difference is that with ride-by, each model resolves movement, combat action, and remainder of movement individually, so each model can move in, attack, then move out of the way before the next one does. Light cav all move together, combat action together, then light-cav move together.

[vaildin]

The advantage to ride by attacks is if the unit starts its turn in melee, it can attack then take a full move (assuming whatever it was in melee with is destroyed).

As a Legion player, I like my Raptors. In fact, I used them last night. I wouldn't mind getting a normal cav unit at some point in the future. Except the price, I wouldn't like that.

[PG_petegrrrr]

No, they can't.

Instead they can shoot twice when they aim and get the bonus on both shots. If they could do that then move, they'd just simply be broken. +2 with a 5" movement, or the option of twice as many shots with no move, or shoot without a +2 and move 8. Having options will go a long way for Destors.

right, I'm not talking about Destors. I'm talking about light cav. Destors are not light cav.

Light cav tend to have range weapons, and they can use the light cav move to aim, shoot, and then retreat five. I'm not saying anything about destors, because once again, they are not light cav.

Ride by attack can be used as a bushwack, and the light cav move can be used as a sort of bushwack with an aiming bonus. That's what I am saying.

[Lanz]

right, I'm not talking about Destors. I'm talking about light cav. Destors are not light cav.

Light cav tend to have range weapons, and they can use the light cav move to aim, shoot, and then retreat five. I'm not saying anything about destors, because once again, they are not light cav.

Ride by attack can be used as a bushwack, and the light cav move can be used as a sort of bushwack with an aiming bonus. That's what I am saying.

You said a lot of things, actually, but if that was the point you actually intended to make, then yes, I agree.

[The Happy Anarchist]

One thing to point out, Destors would be pretty bananas as Light Cav. The only Heavy Cav that I wouldn't trade for the Light Cav rules is Long Riders.