35 Point steamroller this weekend. Help me pick my two lists.

[Scionik]

I will be attending my first tournament with the Retribution this weekend. I am going to do some more playtesting tonight, but here are my final thoughts on lists. I am not one hundred percent sold, and would be willing to make some changes if I get good theorycraft, so any suggestions on the lists I have other than "That list sucks switch everything for this!" would be greatly appreciated.

#1

Kaelyssa, Night's Whisper +7
Hydra 9
Phoenix 10

Lady Aiyana & Master Holt 4
Mage Hunter Strikeforce 8
Mage Hunter Commander 2

Arcanist 1
Arcanist 1
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios 3
Ghost Sniper 2
Ghost Sniper 2

#2

Ravyn, Eternal Light +6
Manticore 8
Dawnguard Invictors 10
Dawnguard Invictor Officer & Standard 2
Dawnguard Sentinels 9
Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard 2
Mage Hunter Strikeforce 8
Mage Hunter Commander 2

# 3

Adeptis Rahn Shyeel +6
Manticore 8
Phoenix 10

House Shyeel Battle Mages 5
House Shyeel Battle Mages 5

Arcanist 1
Arcanist 1
House Shyeel Magister 2
House Shyeel Magister 2
Mage Hunter Assassin 2
Mage Hunter Assassin 2
Narn, Mage Hunter of Ios 3

and # 4

Garryth, Blade of Retribution +5
Chimera 6
Manticore 8 (Marshalled by Sentinals)

Dawnguard Sentinels 9
Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard 2
House Shyeel Battle Mages 5

Arcanist 1
Arcanist 1
House Shyeel Magister 2
Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan 2
Mage Hunter Assassin 2
Mage Hunter Assassin 2

[Mastershake]

Hmmm...it seems like you've got the models, but many are absent or in wierd places.

For example, Ravyn really wants Aiyana to get past Passage and Wind Wall. Kaelyssa wants Dawnguard because they get more out of her feat than the Strike Force. Rahn's only units are 2 units of battle mages, so he'll have problems if he has to play attrition before he can get the feat assassination opportunity. And why does Garryth have Battle mages? The Magister I understand, Whip Snap is great, but the model Garryth really wants to reel in, the enemy caster, won't be reeled in by Magic 6. Also, as much fun as Madelyn is, Anyssa Ryssal is more reliable and not dependent on your opponent being in the right position and not killing her. And why is the Manticore marshalled? It really needs 3 focus in most cases to do what it wants.

Overall you've got the ingredients for good lists, but almost all of these have the video game boss giant glowing weak point.

Incidentally, if you're planning on attending an SR event, you really want eEiryss. There are far too many upkeeps and animi that have to go and the ability to lock down jacks with disruption so you can deal with them later is invaluable. Also, I heard a rumor she can make WM casters who camp focus easier to assassinate.

Put Aiyana in Ravyn's list (take the points from the Sentinels), give Rahn a real unit (something Dawnguard, drop Battle Mages and a random solo or two and trade Manticore for Chimera), Give Kaelyssa a second unit (also something Dawnguard, drop the Hydra for the points), and give Garryth a second unit (Invictors or the MHSF will work, get the points from the Chimera and Battle Mages). All simple fixes that will dramatically improve what the lists are capable of handling. I'd highly reccomend finding points for eEiryss, but the best lessons are learned the hard way.

[Scionik]

Yea, my lists didnt quite work out how I invisioned them.

I have however narrowed my choices down to Ravyn and Rahn for the tournament on sunday. Ill post my proposed lists tomorrow and see if you guys have any suggestions.

[ReaVeD]

I'll have to disagree with Mastershake on Battlemages with Garryth. I run those guys with him and i've been satisfied with their performance. Sure they'll probably miss the enemy caster but they really help with enableing the charge for Garryth clearing the charge lane either with Force Bolt or their fists and beat back.

Other than that i agree.

[Scionik]

Ok, so heres what im planning to take

Rahn +6
Phoenix 10
Discordia 10

Sentinels + ua 11
Battle mages 5

arcanist 1
Magister 2
Magister 2

With polarity shield and Discordias force field on the Sentinals, I should be able to get the majority of the unit across the board and into my opponents face without many of them dying. They can screen for the mages and magisters as they prepare for an assassination run on the feat turn. I like discordia bonded so I can make 6 attacks. 6 pwr 18's witht he arcanist should box most heavies in one go. The Phoenix is just great and I wouldnt play rahn without one.

Ok, my second list will be.

Ravyn +6
Manticore 8

Sentinels + ua 11
MHSF + ua 10
Aiyana and Holt 4

Arcanist 1
EEiryss 3
MHA 2
MHA 2

This list, will be played against casters that I can get a MHSF assassination with. I am torn between invistors and sentinels. I know invictors benefit from her feat so much more, but im worried about mass stealth. Against legion and cryx, i have struggled with mass stealthed infantry. The sentinels can run across the board and tie them up, hitting alot harder than the invictors in melee.

so how do these two lists look?

[Mastershake]

Discordia CAN be bonded to Rahn if you have bonding rules (normally character jacks can't), but special issue doesn't create bonds where none exist.

Rahn's list isn't bad, but with only one arc node it wouldn't be hard for him to run out and his stats aren't good enough for directly casting, so you'll have to protect the Phoenix pretty fiercly. It'll also limit threat vectors, but to each his own. You'll find out what you need if you play it enough.

Ravyn's list is uninspiring. Invictors are better than Sentinels. People on internetland can disagree all they like, but Invictors shoot pretty hard with CRAing POW 12s and still fight respectably hard (pretty comparably so) when they have a flank. With Rahn giving them Polarity Shield they also out threat most enemies. Of course that aside, what Ravyn really likes are Stormfalls. They cover bases the MHSF doesn't cover i.e. AoEs for Stealth, Star Strikes for Shieldwalls and Brutal Shots for high ARM non-jacks. Either are better choices with Ravyn since they give you reserve option if you can't assassinate of just wiping out the enemy army on the feat turn. It's almost as good. Yet again, this is just my opinion, you'll see for yourself how/if it works, so take the advice with a grain of salt for some extra flavor.

[PG_Sobek]

In regards to your Kaelyssa list, I've started running a Phoenix and Discordia with her instead of a Phoenix and a Hydra. With Hunter with Discordia's SP10 can be brutal in many circumstances.