35pt Baldur All-Comers List

[Bakemono]

While most Warlocks benefit from having one Woldwarden in the list, Baldur does benefit from having two. He can heal them of course, but he also has a very good spell "Earth Spikes" with which to spam infantry. Moreover, the forest generation increases his assassin potential. I found that three Woldwardens was a diminishing return, but two was just right:

Baldur (+5 Wabeast Points)
Argus *4
Woldwarden x2 *18
Feral Warpwolf *9
Druids of Orboros w/Overseer

I will say that Baldur is best at higher point levels than a mere 35pts. He doesn't have the compact synergy of a P-Kaya or Kromac. Kromac comes with his own anti-magic and P-Kaya is supercharging all the Warbeasts. I'm not saying the list above is optimal but it is highly adaptable which is generally better in a tournament environment.

The Woldwardens carry a lot of the weight of this list (which is only fitting since they take up almost half the points). With Baldur, huge amounts of LOS blocking forest can be generated. They also provide the ability to spam Earth Spikes. They can charge and make power attacks without being forced which ups them to an equivelant Fury-4 with Baldur. They key to this list is to make the most of them EVERY round. They protect your Druids and your Druids protect the rest of the list from magical attacks. The Feral combined with Baldur can get to the same hitting power as if there was a Gorax in the list and the Argus means that you can get it through rought terrain when the need arises. As usual, the Feral is your closer, the thing you use to take out high ARM targets or Warlocks/Warcasters. It is better to activate him last after the Woldwardens have gone because quite often their chain attack will have knocked down choice targets or cleared a path if used right. The Druids can fight but they are far better in their anti-magic capacity, or fishing, i.e. setting up choice targets for your Heavies. Worst comes to worst they can fight but this really isn't advised. They are better off blasting infantry with their magic than fighting them. Finally, Baldur has lots of forest walker, i.e. assassination synergy with the Woldwardens as they can leave forests in their wake. There are a couple of interesting tricks I've worked up but I'm not ready to share them until after Templecon.

Obviously, the Druids make up 9pts of your list and any changes you make can easily be done by cutting the UA or the Druids entirely. If you cut the UA you could add a Blackclad, but without the Shifting Stones his only purpose is a spray that might pump the Druids for melee. I don't suggest this. If you only cut the UA I would consider putting in a set of Shifting Stones just for utility. If you cut them altogether you can put in another Heavy (Pureblood) which allows you to drop the Argus and add a Lord of the Feast and a Swamp Gobbers. Or instead of adding a heay you can drop the Druids w/Overseer and add a Lord of the Feast, Shifting Stones x2, and a Blackclad. This configuration leaves you without the serious anti-magic but provides you with MAXIMUM anti-infantry options.

[CyberKnight]

I'm curious how you'd approach a beast heavy Legion army with this list. With Wings and Eyeless sight ignoring your terrain and LOS blocking, I've found it to be an absolutely miserable matchup for Baldur + Wardens.

[Bakemono]

I'm curious how you'd approach a beast heavy Legion army with this list. With Wings and Eyeless sight ignoring your terrain and LOS blocking, I've found it to be an absolutely miserable matchup for Baldur + Wardens.

Well, for one thing I don't bother much with the blocking LOS and focus entirely on buffs and use the Woldwarden's chain attack. The Druids (which is why I include them) are key against Legion. The UA makes them immune to many of the ranged attacks, and their fishing ability against the glass cannons allows you to pick them apart. Woldwardens are our most durable models, the least glassy of the glass cannon set I suppose. This is useful.

Woldwardens will tend to use Stone Skin on themselves in each activation for maximum damage. They will continue to charge or do power attacks without being forced. This means our P+S will be a solid (17) w/a Chain attack that can be used to great effect. Against lighter Warbeasts, I often do not use the Stone Skin (since I don't need it for damage) and use more Earth Spikes. When you combine the Woldwarden chain attacks with the Druid fishing, and Feral for closure, you can shatter the Legion's back real fast. They still have to swarm in to do their damage. This means you can just backpedal while fishing the best targets in for destruction. My particular favorite combo is to be backing up. Fish something forward to one Woldwarden who power attacks for free and THROWS said model further backwards to my other stuff to kill it safe from reprisal. I attrition Legion.

Remember that Baldur also has a Legion killing feat. He can flypaper them. Legion is a strong matchup but whend one right the Baldur list is particularly well-suited to killing them, even better than Kromac or P-Kaya.

[CyberKnight]

Hmmm. I would think you'd have trouble getting more than one beast with Druid fishing before you lost them to the rest of their army. Of course then you've potentially traded the druids for charges against whatever they sent to kill them. Definitely something to consider.

I'm not sure I get how Baldur's feat hoses Legion. Sure, it still slows down their 'lock, rabid shredders, and Carniveans, but it doesn't seem like it would affect Flight. (sorry, called it Wings out of habit before).

Edit: I don't tend to face Legion often, we have a few players with it around here, but either they don't play much or they play other armies. Just trying to wrap my mind around the strategy here.

[Bakemono]

Hmmm. I would think you'd have trouble getting more than one beast with Druid fishing before you lost them to the rest of their army. Of course then you've potentially traded the druids for charges against whatever they sent to kill them. Definitely something to consider.

I'm not sure I get how Baldur's feat hoses Legion. Sure, it still slows down their 'lock, rabid shredders, and Carniveans, but it doesn't seem like it would affect Flight. (sorry, called it Wings out of habit before).

Edit: I don't tend to face Legion often, we have a few players with it around here, but either they don't play much or they play other armies. Just trying to wrap my mind around the strategy here.

Not at all. The Druids don't all fire at the same target. Some push back while others pull forward. At 35pts the Legion list isn't going to be huge either. There are key models you want to eliminate. Those are the ones you are going to fish for (and combine with Baldur's Feat to eliminate reprisals). At this level of game, you have two Heavies to kill. If you do this without reprisal you will win the game. Legion is in a quandry. They have to get to you to do the damage but going at you means getting flypapered and "fished" by Baldur. if they stay back they get attritioned with Earth Spikes.

[CyberKnight]

Gotcha. We tend to play 50pts so that was coloring my thinking as well. Thanks for the insights

[Bakemono]

Gotcha. We tend to play 50pts so that was coloring my thinking as well. Thanks for the insights

Yeah, 50pts is a whole different world. Don't get me wrong, I consider Legion to be one of my hardest matchups. The fact that I lose my arsenal of rough terrain and LOS blocks is always going to hurt. I just can't tackle Legion on the offense. I've yet to find a way to do that. So far, even in MKII, I always have to attrition them and angle for the assassination. Baldur has proven, ironically enough, to be my strongest Warlock against Legion simply because of his Feat. It grants just enough board control that Legion can't go 100% aggressive without losing a fair number of models. My favorite Warlock for "All-Comers" is Kromac and he simply doesn't have the same board control. His fights against Legion are difficult in the extreme.

[blueskin]

Bakemono:
I haven't had that much of a problem with Legion, but how do you deal with shooty lists? eLilith, with her insane range and accuracy for an instance...

[Jotun]

Bakemono:
I haven't had that much of a problem with Legion, but how do you deal with shooty lists? eLilith, with her insane range and accuracy for an instance...

I am a Legion and a Circle player and I don't know what Bakemono does, but I tend to go uber-offensive on Legion, a total role reversal as that is how they tend to fight. I use Baldur's Feat offensively but moving forward to catch a bunch of them in it... just close enough that they can't get away from my charge range but far enough way that they aren't going to reach anything important of mine. They will "try" to consolidate or run but it won't help. I finish them off on the next round.

Shooty lists where the shooters have Eyeless Sight are always a pain. You just have to keep some Fury to transfer damage from her and kill her whenever she is foolish enough to get close enough to shoot at you.

[Mosstooth]

I tried this list a couple times. It seems to work pretty well. I was curious about running 3 heavies like that so had to give it a go. Won both games, but I didn't really get into the synergy I think this list can provide. Second game I used a pureblood instead of the feral vs mercs but didn't get a chance to know if it was a smart move. Damn druids keep dominating the game play, and I switched the UA for a wayfarer both games. Argus has yet to do anything, but I see some potential with him, a situation for it just didn't arise.

[blueskin]

Bakemono:

I'm a keen Baldur/Construct player and I'm very curious about what Forest Walk tricks you're refering to. I've played some Baldur games but I feel I have some sweet stuff left to discover... Please, enlighten me!

[MCPeePants]

I don't think that list would do very well against an opponent with infantry. Really the only thing you have to kill them is stone spikes, and with how easy it is to spread out infantry under Mk.II, you'll be unlikely to hit more than one. If you hit, with FURY6.

Consider for example a Cryx army, full of stealthed weaponmasters. They'll shred your beasts to ribbons. Or a Menoth list with extremely defensive jacks and supporting infantry. Your list is almost all heavy hitters, but they don't hit hard enough to get the job done.

Woldwardens, as much as I wish it were not the case, just don't hit worth a damn. Against a heavy, say ARM 18, charging and geomancying Stone Skin, they'll get four attacks, MAT6, P+S17. That's an average of what, 27 damage? Not enough to wreck any heavy. When you start considering higher ARM, things get much worse.

Another thing is your FURY generation. If you're running at full, you're pumping out 13 each turn, and with no shifting stones to help get it off, you're either going to have frenzies all over or wardens too full to do anything.

[Jotun]

I don't think that list would do very well against an opponent with infantry. Really the only thing you have to kill them is stone spikes, and with how easy it is to spread out infantry under Mk.II, you'll be unlikely to hit more than one. If you hit, with FURY6.

I've played against Bakemono (he is one of my regular opponents) and he loves fighting infantrymachine opponents. He actually prefers Baldur against those kind of armies. Speaking as one who has fought against Baldur often enough under these conditions, I can say he does very well against infantry.

Consider for example a Cryx army, full of stealthed weaponmasters. They'll shred your beasts to ribbons. Or a Menoth list with extremely defensive jacks and supporting infantry. Your list is almost all heavy hitters, but they don't hit hard enough to get the job done.

Cryx is my WM faction and it is, ironically enough, the one I play against Baldur on a regular basis. I hate fighting Baldur. Let me disavow you of certain misconceptions. Our stealthed Weaponmasters (or any infantry in general) are never going to get near his Warbeasts. That is how Baldur operates. He is a denial Warlock. His board control has only improved in MKII. Now that he can drop a forest on top of an opponent's models (and other terrain features), he has one of the most effective assassination jumps in the game. It also allows him to shift himself 12" regularly changing the entire angle of his movement and defeating most infantry advances. I've played against the list Bakemono has here with lots of infantry (Bane Knights, Bane Thralls, Bile Thralls, Mechanithralls, you name it). Baldur always hits you first. Those heavy hitters you speak of destroy most of our infantry with tramples, not Earth Spikes.

Woldwardens, as much as I wish it were not the case, just don't hit worth a damn. Against a heavy, say ARM 18, charging and geomancying Stone Skin, they'll get four attacks, MAT6, P+S17. That's an average of what, 27 damage? Not enough to wreck any heavy. When you start considering higher ARM, things get much worse.

Bakemono doesn't use Woldwardens to wreack other Heavies. He uses them for forest generation, Geomancy at key targets, and power attacks. He throws our Heavies to the wolves so to speak. Our Meta has also discovered that it is often far better not to wreck an opponent's Warjack, but to nearly wreck it. If there is no way to repair said Warjack, a hulking ineffectual bit of metal junk that is blocking more access to your base is better than a wreck marker. I learned this lesson (and now use it myself) when Bakemono engaged two of my Warjacks that were close enough together that his Feral's base could touch both. The Feral was fully juiced and had the Primal Animus on it. He pushed it to the max but spread his attacks around so that he did maximum damage to both, but finished neither one off. Thus, my Bane Thralls, on the following round could not fully come to bear on the Warpwolf. Those almost dead Warjacks were in the way. I was only able to get two in on him at the given distance rather than the five or more I'd have gotten if he killed them outright. The Feral survived the battle. I didn't.

Another thing is your FURY generation. If you're running at full, you're pumping out 13 each turn, and with no shifting stones to help get it off, you're either going to have frenzies all over or wardens too full to do anything.

You should really play Bakemono in Vassal. Just because you can reach a certain level of Fury, doesn't mean you must reach it every turn. The key thing about Fury is that you run it hot on the turn that matters, not before. Shifting Stones are useful for Fury management, but I've never seen Bakemono use them for that. I've never seen a single one of his Warbeasts frenzy unless he used Primal on them the turn prior. Perhaps you are just a better player than me. It is possible. I can only base my commentary about Baldur on my own field experience and the games I've witnessed him played against other infantrymachine armies. He works.

[blueskin]

From my limited experience I've noticed that people often expect to face a slow grinding force och heavy punchers when they're up against Baldur and constructs. The first couple of games I played I relied too much on Earth Spikes. When facing lots of infantry I didn't benefit from it at all. Against jack heavy slow lists it worked out really well. I soon discovered the advantages I could get by moving around, playing denial games. Judging from my own experience, the style of play described by Jotun really makes people hate Baldur. For a reason. The only thing new to me is leaving a couple of damage boxes on warjacks. Gotta try that one!