Best casters against Protectorate

[DeathInFrance]

I've been playing quite a few games against Cryx, Cygnar, and Protectorate. Anyway, like many people I've only had real trouble with Protectorate. The games have been close, but I'm wondering if there's a caster/unit/jack combo that'll really help me shine (in general).

The only auto include I'd like is Behemoth. I've never had a problem taking out the Avatar buffed by casters, a Choir, & a Vassal of Menoth while running Big B.

[Locque]

What kind of protectorate lists do you run into?
Going jack heavy is often a good idea, as our jacks are superor, and they give you something to do with your focus in the face of the protectorate's nasty denial game.

[DeathInFrance]

Grand Exemplar Kreoss, High Executioner Reznik, & Hierach Severius are the three I see the most. My last fight against Severius was sad. He did a suicide charge on eButcher. But with Creator's Wrath popped & stacked focus, he was able to do an insane amount of damage.

[Fuchikoma]

I played a great game with Zerkova. Her feat really messes up any Menoth synergy for a turn.

[Doploctor]

strakhov, torch, kommandos, widowmakers. they all help if your opponent has tons of fire and i hear protectorate enjoys 1 wound models
>.> and who knows you may even make his tier list

[x3tsniper]

What is really good to have is something to pick off his front line. Errants are menoths(arguably) best front line unit, and they are sometimes a pain to chew through. Widow makers are good for this. They are also great for picking off choir if they last long enough.

It sucks but a lot of times what you have to do against menoth is wait for them to make a mistake. Their jacks can output just as much damage as ours and some of their jacks have some very deadly aspects. Reckoners with vassals, and pow 9 blast damage from vanquishers. Lots of auto fire in certain lists. I honestly ignore the avatar a lot. He has only killed my caster 2 ever and he usually isn't a factor in the actual clash so much as he is a threat to be avoided. Throw a few tarpit models at him a turn to keep him busy or make him trample into strange spots.

If you could be specific about what he likes to bring it would help a lot. What is killing you?

In my experience pSorscha is worthless against menoth due to them always having a book.

I usually run Beast09 and Behemoth in every game against menoth. Drakhun is also very nice as he cracks open jacks and can get around enliven if they place wrong.

We really do not have a wrong caster(beyond pSorscha) against menoth. It is all about play style. Strakhov however would lend you a bit of an advantage since 95% of their casters spells are fire and so are all of their jacks ranged attacks. He will also help you get the first strike, and let you be a little sneaky with overrun.

Me and my friend who plays menoth usually roll between the majority of our casters so we don't become one of those players who plays the same caster every time he comes to the store.

[DeathInFrance]

I can't say there's one thing that constantly trips me up. But every game we've played I've seen a full unit of Deliverers. My thought is to get a Mortar team to out range them.

[rahal777]

I've been playing quite a few games against Cryx, Cygnar, and Protectorate. Anyway, like many people I've only had real trouble with Protectorate. The games have been close, but I'm wondering if there's a caster/unit/jack combo that'll really help me shine (in general).

The only auto include I'd like is Behemoth. I've never had a problem taking out the Avatar buffed by casters, a Choir, & a Vassal of Menoth while running Big B.

And you have the nerve to bad mouth my BLTs. I say good day sir.

[DeathInFrance]

Awww baby, don't be that way!

[Crazy Uncle Doug]

I played a great game with Zerkova. Her feat really messes up any Menoth synergy for a turn.

I second this. Seriously, one round with no synergy seriously wrecks Protectorate strategy.

[Seventhprophet]

I use pButcher to good effect. I think mostly its the army I run with him. I try to have one good infantry unit (deathstar), some decent range in widowmakers and great bears to deal the pain. I also run 3 warjacks which I think is key. It always seems like Menoth lists are able to deal with infantry really well, or jacks decently well but not both. They usually seem more than happy to play the attrition game as long as they are doing what they do well: Killing our infantry. But the resources they lose while tearing into the deathstar is no match for what you will have left afterward. Once ranks are thinned, they usually don’t have what it takes to deal with a fresh Butcher. Also, the spell denial they carry really doesn’t mess with the butcher all that much. Always seems a little easy sauce with that list.

[Ender_Melchior]

Against Menoth? I'd argue Kossites are a good pick to have in the list. Because even with their dismal stats? They can take out the Choir. Plus, if your opponent chooses to ignore them? You can keep harassing the backfield.

Or you can get lucky, and they decide to move a heavy jack into the backfield to go deal with the Kossites, thus taking the pressure off of the front. I'll sacrifice the Kossites to buy some time for my main force to come in and wreck face.

The Old witch is a good choice to bring along against Menoth. The Scrapjack with the Avatar of Slaughted can easily tear through the TFG, and even if it's mowing into Infantry, within the command range of the Harbringer? Sure. I'll keep killing your things and letting you let them live with Martyr. I have four focus, and two initial attacks. I'm either killing your doodz, or your taking damage yourself.

Menoth is a tough nut to crack. But I do enjoy playing against Menoth, because it makes me learn, even in losing.

[x3tsniper]

I almost always bring a mortar crew to every game. It can direct hit things with low defense and do a lot of damage or it will miss against things with high defense that die to blast. The deliverers are a sub par unit in my opinion and in my friends. He tried them out only a few times when MKII rolled around. They are low armor and rat 1 unless they are combining. Most things in our army can ignore direct hits from them in shield wall or can't be hit by them. Even kayazy stand a good chance of surviving blast damage from them, even if they are getting EoM. My recommendation is to not worry about his AoE from that unit throughout the game.

Other than that I can't really give you much advice since I don't know what is going on during your games at all.

[hoya4life3381]

I play Menoth probably the most since they are my mate's chosen army. If you are able to hunt down the solos such as Choirs, Vassals, Covenant, Reclaimers, and Heirophants, then you would theoretically be in good shape. However, this is generally not very easy and not a strength of Khador. The only unit GENERALLY we have that can operate non-linearly is Kossites and their success depends on board configuration and also surprise. Going after the support is not easy since usually you'll have to go through a whole Menoth wall to get there.

The best way to fight Menoth IMO is not to be too aggresive and wait for an opportunity to present itself. Every unit of Menoth's must move in sych with each other for the synergies and defensive abilities to stack. Also, since Menoth is usuallya counter strike army, they depend on having every unit be able to support the other. If the distances grow farther or the models get jumbled up, then you have units that are out of support.

Menoth is best described as chain mail. Like chain mail, if it is not stretched out, then it is very tough to penetrate. If you are able to stretch apart the links that hold the chains together, then each link is weak and you can penetrate it. Most Menoth armies have a strong center of either TFG or Knights Exemplar Errants. The unit is then flanked on both sides by 2 heavy jacks often with Vassal/Enliven support. The jacks are the key pieces here. I try to flank on both sides therefore causing Menoth's 2 heavies to spread apart and not be able to support each other. I then pick the 1 flank where I can do the most damage to the flank and the center infantry unit.

Blindly charging in and being to aggresive is usually your downfall. When Menoth is in a center position of strength (castle) where either end is able to support the other, you're front line chargers are not going to be able to do enough damage. It's okay to take some casaulties while you are positioning until you find an opportunity to stretch out your opponent and then pierce his lines.