Rampage Confusion

[CovenantPhil]

I apologize in advance for the wall of text you're about to see. I considered breaking this into multiple posts, but the questions all tie together somewhat in my understanding, so I thought it better to consolidate them.

There's something interesting in the Rampage power attack that I just noticed today when looking the interaction between flying monsters and causing a hazard to appear. I've got a few questions that are really rather fundamental to the Rampage attack, but I've never had cause to ask them before.

1. When I make a Rampage attack, the description (pg. 36 Now! rulebook) sounds like I look at the squares I'm about to move into and compare my strikes to the defense of anything in those squares. Units hit are crushed, buildings hit are destroyed, and if it's a monster, I stop moving. There are a couple questions from this description.

1a: Is a building destroyed by a Rampage attack destroyed and removed immediately (i.e. before any further movement takes place) or does it just get marked as "hit" and dealt with in a later step of the attack?

I've always thought it was just "hit" and then removed in step 6 of the attack, but the description in the rules seems to imply it's dealt with immediately, before the monster moves into the spaces. This is especially important when dealing with flying monsters. If doesn't get its reactions until after the monster has moved onto the spaces, then the flying monster won't suffer damage from, for instance, a fire hazard. However, if the flying monster moves to that space BEFORE the fire hazard enters play, they would take damage when the hazard enters play (pg. 32 Now! rulebook).

1b: If there are two entities in the spaces the monster is about to enter, do you check and resolve both of them independently?

I'm almost certain the answer here is yes, but the example shown on pg. 37 of the Now! rulebook suggests otherwise. In that example, King Kondo is stopped by a Newspaper building because he rolled 3 strikes, however the Howitzer Ape that he also would have hit is not crushed. Why not? Does the Newspaper's defense mean that NOTHING in that space is hit or does the attacker get to choose the order of how the defenses are checked?

2. Hazards specifically say "The rampaging monster is immune to hazards in its path, but it can be affected by hazards in the spaces where it stops." This is somewhat related to the above question on timing, however I have a couple of more specific issues that I want to draw out.

2a. Blazing Inferno specifically says "Figures moving onto [the] hazard take 1 damage." However, at the point where the monster ceases to be immune, it's already ON the hazard and not moving onto it. Does the "[monsters] can be affected by hazards in the spaces where [they] stop" wording in the Rampage description cause an exception to the "moving onto" of the hazard itself or is a rampaging monster fully immune to hazards it moves onto?

The wording of Rampage suggests that a monster that would normally suffer damage from "moving onto" the hazard still does if they happen to stop there, however they don't stop until the Rampage ends and throughout the Rampage they're supposedly immune. I don't mind the way we've all been playing it, but it seems almost like Rampage would be better worded as saying the rampaging monster is not affected by hazards except for those they end their movement on.

2b. The next line of the Rampage rules says: "Flying figures ignore hazards, so a flying monster that ends its rampage on a hazard will not be affected." However, if a hazard enters play under the flying monster (for example, a Newspaper Office is destroyed and the flying monster ends its movement where the hazard will/did appear) shouldn't the flying monster still take a damage from it?

This is what I was initially researching and it seems to come down to timing. If the hazard appears before the monster ever moves onto the space, it's obviously not going to affect the flying monster. However, if it appears while the flying monster is on the space, then it seems like the description of Rampage is misleading.

[Mod_Donaldbain]

a: Is a building destroyed by a Rampage attack destroyed and removed immediately (i.e. before any further movement takes place) or does it just get marked as "hit" and dealt with in a later step of the attack?

It gets marked as hit and removed in step six.

1b: If there are two entities in the spaces the monster is about to enter, do you check and resolve both of them independently?

No. If you figure hit A's defense and miss figure B's defense, you stop in the space before contacting either doing no damage to either figure. Keep in mind the Rampage and a Collision are two different things. Rampage does not cause the monster to collide with anything so the Simultaneous Collision rules in the FAQ does not apply to the Rampage.

2a. <snip> Does the "[monsters] can be affected by hazards in the spaces where [they] stop" wording in the Rampage description cause an exception to the "moving onto" of the hazard itself or is a rampaging monster fully immune to hazards it moves onto?

If a monster ends it's Rampage in a Hazard square it will take damage from that Hazard unless it has Flight or is immune to that Hazard.

2b.However, if a hazard enters play under the flying monster (for example, a Newspaper Office is destroyed and the flying monster ends its movement where the hazard will/did appear) shouldn't the flying monster still take a damage from it?

Yes, if the Monster ends it's Rampage on a building that creates a Hazard, that monster will suffer damage from that Hazard coming into play even if it has Flight. This paragraph

The rampaging monster is immune to hazards in its path,
but it can be affected by hazards in the spaces where it
stops. Flying figures ignore hazards, so a flying monster
that ends its rampage on a hazard will not be affected.

Is only talking about Hazards already in play, not newly created ones.

[CovenantPhil]

Thanks for the clarification.

I'm a little surprised by the answer to 1b as it sounds like a lesser figure could be hit and yet miraculously not take any damage. So if a Power Pod and Imperial State Building are both going to be checked and I rolled between 2 and 6 strikes, the Power Pod would still survive, being shielded by the ISB? And it survives despite the fact that when I check the defense it's supposed to be crushed (removed immediately)?

That just seems off to me, but if that's how it's supposed to work, it's good to know.

[ReverendBayes]

Thanks for the clarification.

I'm a little surprised by the answer to 1b as it sounds like a lesser figure could be hit and yet miraculously not take any damage. So if a Power Pod and Imperial State Building are both going to be checked and I rolled between 2 and 6 strikes, the Power Pod would still survive, being shielded by the ISB? And it survives despite the fact that when I check the defense it's supposed to be crushed (removed immediately)?

That just seems off to me, but if that's how it's supposed to work, it's good to know.

I agree. And am now confused myself: For what kinds of attacks, then, does the "simultaneous collision" rule apply (e.g. the power pod would be crushed but the Imperial State would not be destroyed)?

[Mod_Donaldbain]

That is how it does work. The same if a unit is beside a monster or the Privateer Press building.

The Simultaneous Collision rule applies when there is a Collision; a Power Attack, Beatback and so on.

[Mod_Dvandom]

(I was wrong, deleted)

[ReverendBayes]

The Simultaneous Collision rule applies when there is a Collision; a Power Attack, Beatback and so on.

It's one of those places where we try to make sure the rules make some sort of intuitive sense. If you toss a monster into a strong thing next to a weak thing, it makes sense that hitting the strong thing stops the monster and keeps the weak thing safe.

Aaaak! You guys are saying the opposite of one another. With all due respect, Dvandom, it seems Donald has the correct take. Here is my current understanding:


If a monster is smashed or beat-back along a path that intersects with a corner of the Privateer Press Building, and next to that corner is a unit (any unit), then that unit will be crushed and the monster will stop at the doorstep of the PP Building, like this:

EPP
CPP
XX
XX

(Here the four "X" represent the smashed monster, the "C" represents the position of the crushed unit, the four "P" represent the PP building, and "E" is an empty space.)
Furthermore, if the PP building is replaced with another monster, this same thing happens where the unit is crushed and the smashed/beat-backed monster stops.
THAT is what I understand as the "Simultaneous Collision" rule, and it only ever applies for smashes and beat-backs into a pair of figures, one of which must be indestructible.

What does not sit well with me is the fact that, if the offending monster is not smashed or beat-backed, and instead makes a rampage along the same path into the same pair of figures, then the Simultaneous Collision rule would not apply.

So, if your monster travels into an indestructible figure that is adjacent to a unit, then said unit may or may not be crushed:

a) Unit is crushed if your monster was moving as a result of beatback or smash
b) Unit is not crushed if your monster was moving as a result of a rampage

I wish there was consistency here (both with the rule and between those posting rules interpretations).

[Mod_Dvandom]

Ignore my response. This is why I usually leave this whole issue to the others.

---Dave