Wyshnalyrr

[jameslsummers]

newb question here, how does his arcane secrets(*action) ability work, it says in the text target this models warcaster, does that mean you have to roll to hit?

[Grizwald]

newb question here, how does his arcane secrets(*action) ability work, it says in the text target this models warcaster, does that mean you have to roll to hit?

He's attached to 1 warcaster. If you were playing a 2+ caster game, you can't attach him to The Butcher and then Arcane Secrets The Old Witch. No to hit roll needed.

[Random_Dylan]

I'm so incredibly pumped to put this little bundle of joy in my Old Witch list. Giving an extra die to hit and damage with Gallows will be an excellent use of Mr. Wyshnalyrr's time I think. Also he makes me want to buy Zerkova, I've always wanted to try her and now I feel she might be viable without me going out and buying Vanguards.

As to earlier posts about the War Dog; I'd still usually include him in a melee casters list like Butcher or Vlad.

[Ender_Melchior]

Wyshnalyrr, for me, is only going to be in lists with the Old Witch or Zerkova. Every other caster tends to be close enough to the melee, that I'll ned the defense boost from the dog. But with those two? The Old Witch usually plays backfield enough that the focus efficiency will be key with her. And Zerkova? Well, they are BFFs.

[Random_Dylan]

It is too bad about the model though. I think for me it's the half a face thing. I don't think a conversion will save him.

[DemonCalibre]

I heard wishnailer comes with an apology letter that mentioned something about having a legit warcaster attachment.

Something I do feel that is important to point out, Arcane Secrets isn't the first offensive spell you cast, it's the *next* spell you cast, so if it is non-offensive it will eat the proc, so be sure to open with your offensive spells ^^

[Khador247]

Wow. He's even better than I thought. I figured you'd have to choose one of the three abilities each turn. Not so. The free upkeep and +2 range for spells just plain happen as long as the caster is in Wyshnaylyrr's command range. Mini S&P for one attack spell is a *action and the caster must be within 3 inches. Pre-order this one early because he will be tough to get.

[Ganso]

I honestly don't know of any Khador caster where War Dog is better, and that makes me sad cause I love my Sasha

I guess it depends on the meta, for example with pSorcha, melee heavy environment the Dog would be better, in spell/range heavy environment a free Fog is awesome.

Hell, even our up and close casters like Butcher and Karchev would benefit more with an extra focus to sit on than an extra 2 Def

[PastorJayRich]

I have a feeling there are going to be abandoned war dogs all over soviet Khador for many years to come. Come on guys, think of the puppies...

Seriously. This is the best thing to happen for our casters since the WarDog. I don't think I can give up my dog though. He'll be by my caster's side until he dies (usually round 3).

[PastorJayRich]

Raise the staff above his head and tilt him forward and I think he'll look better.

Right now it looks like he's trying to stand up against a strong wind. And what's with the hip armor? Is that really a critical hit area?

I think I'm still gonna get him when I start playing Zerkova.

[Random_Dylan]

Don't forget the dog allows you to ignore free strikes and back strikes and costs 50% less. More melee oriented casters who can charge away from things they don't want to fight and don't have to worry about exposing their rear arcs to charges is still great.

[jameslsummers]

i think i will continue to use the dog with sorscha, last game against cryx he tied up a chicken for 2 rounds keeping pDenegra from spaying me to death. but with zerkova(my only other caster at the moment) its gonna be wyshnalyrr. as she doesnt or shouldnt ever get into close combat with anyone, lol.

[DoktorVivi]

My only problem is he isn't allowed in Zerkova's new theme force, which would pretty much be the absolutely perfect force for her ever.

[hoya4life3381]

I think a lot of Khador players are going to auto-include the Wyshnalyrr even though they don't need it in every list. I call it "Cygnar solo syndrome" or CSS for short. This is named after the propensity of Cygnar players to include a Squire, Junior, Arlan, Gorman, etc type solos in every list. It's common for a 35 pt Cygnar army to have spent 7-10 pts just in solos.

The Wyshnalyrr IMO is only critical with Strakhov and Epic Irusk. However, I would only take Wyshnalyrr with them if I was playing 2 heavy jacks. I like the solo with Strakhov because almost all his spells are upkeeps and have such short ranges. He can't recast them, so you would feel loathe to let them expire. Strakhov barely has enough focus to pull of the Overrun trick I feel and this will go a long way towards helping that. Epic Irusk can use the Wyshnalyrr when he's running 2 jacks because a saved focus can be used towards Energizer which is an amazing spell and you've translated that tangibly into movement for 2 of your jacks.

[PG_Bearded Dragon]

I honestly don't know of any Khador caster where War Dog is better, and that makes me sad cause I love my Sasha

Vladimir1 and Karchev definitely. Probably Sorscha1 as well.

I totally agree this guy will be HUGE for Strakhov. When I go for a big kill turn, i'm always really nervous because I don't have a spare focus to boost to hit when I'm trying to trigger overrun.

[hoya4life3381]

Vladimir1 and Karchev definitely. Probably Sorscha1 as well.

I totally agree this guy will be HUGE for Strakhov. When I go for a big kill turn, i'm always really nervous because I don't have a spare focus to boost to hit when I'm trying to trigger overrun.

Old Witch doesn't mind having the War Dog either. She doesn't really need the extra focus upkeep from Wysh and can really use the War Dog to tie-up models that threaten her.

[Bastion5]

Trying to squeeze some cheese out here... Can I have wysh and a wardog on my caster?

[Uratoh]

Trying to squeeze some cheese out here... Can I have wysh and a wardog on my caster?

No, a warcaster can only have one attached model.

And don't go throwing him on everyone, remember...a lot of our casters who aren't upkeep heavy or hurting from lack of nodes really don't need him to do much for them. He's a godsend for Zerkova and I'm wondering if I'll be able to convert him by splicing him with a menoth Vassal Mechanik for some kind of slave she's toting around...but in any case he's good, but very few of our casters really *NEED* him.

[Prince]

Possible Combinations not ment to be exhaustive just examples:

pIrusk:
Upkeep IF 0
Upkeep Superiority 1
6 Focus for :examples include 2 Battle lusts , Battle Lust and Inhostpitable Ground (IG), IG and a S+P Airburst or Grind (Grind with 2+RNG)

eIrusk
Upkeep FEF 0
Upkeep Supremacy 1
6 Focus for : ANY TWO (e.g. 2 Battle lusts, Battle lust and AOG) of his spells, Including having a S+P on Airburst.

Karchev
Upkeep Tow or Sidearms 0
5/6 Focus for: Unearthly Rage and giveing 2/3 focus to a Jack,

Old Witch
Upkeep AoS, IF, MoC and WS for 2 focus leaving 5 Focus: examples include Move MoC, Gallows Double boost with S+P, 3 Focus to Scrapjack and Unseen Path

pSorscha
Upkeep Fog 0
6 Focus: examples include; Wind Rush (Duh) + Freezing Grip or Tempest with or Razorwind with (Double boost and) S+P and 2+RNG or 2 Boundless chargesor 2 focus to a Jack and Boundless Charge.

eSorscha
Unkeep IF 0
6 Focus: examples include Cyclone and Freezing Grip with S+P bonus and 2+ RNG, Boundless Charge and 4 focus to bonded jack
Upkeeo IF and ShatterStorm 1
5 Focus: examples include Boundless charge + 3 focus to a jack,

Strakhov
Unkeep Superiority 0
6 Focus: examples include Overrun , 3 Focus to Beast and 1 to Hold onto to trigger Overrun.

pVlad
Take the wardog

eVlad
Upkeep Assail+ Hand of Fate+ (Martial Paragon or Transference) = 2
4 Focus : examples include 2 Windblasts or 3 Focus to a Jack

pButcher
Upkeep IF+ Fury = 1
5 Focus: Full Throtle + 2 to a Jack
Upkeep IF =0
6 Focus: Full Throtle + 3 to a Jack/s

eButcher
Just take the wardog again.

[panopticon]

as much as I love Ilya, my puppy, I have to say that Irusk will be gaining a new BFF, as two battle lusts on feat turn is just WAY too tempting to avoid so I can upkeep superiority and still be able to allocate on focus.

[quindraco]

eVlad
Upkeep Assail+ Hand of Fate+ Martial Paragon+ Transference = 3
4 Focus : examples include 2 Windblasts or 3 Focus to a Jack

Wishnailer doesn't let you upkeep two upkeeps on yourself at once, that would be fascinating but alas it is not the case. MP and Transference remain mutually exclusive. Also, Transference is worthless if you then go on to use up all your remaining focus.

How I intend to do it:
Upkeep Assail + HoF + Transference for 2, leaving 5 to actually transfer out. Use the +2 range and SnP effects to make Razor Wind less blah.

[Ganso]

@Prince Thanks for posting that.

Pretty much what I've been thinking is that having access to that one extra focus a turn opens up way more avenues for most of our casters, even if the caster has just the one upkeep, that's one focus that can go either to a jack or a second heavy duty spell, for example I rather be able to cast Battle Lust and Artifice on the same turn then just cast one and sit on the other 2 focus because if the battle is going my way Irusk won't get shot (he's chilling behind a big wall of Shock Troopers) and if the battle is not going my way 2 extra armor probably won't save my skin, I much rather my focus be Proactive than Reactive.

[jameslsummers]

i have been reading through all the stuff on this thread and it makes me want wyshnalyrr alot, problem, went to LGS and its on back order, sigh, will have to wait.

[Uratoh]

i have been reading through all the stuff on this thread and it makes me want wyshnalyrr alot, problem, went to LGS and its on back order, sigh, will have to wait.

That's because he's not coming out until September.

[Ector]

I will try to analyze what is better (War Dog or Wysnalyrr) for every Khadoran caster.

pIrusk - Wyshnalyrr is better all the way. Extra focus, more range for Battle Lust (thus allowing Irusk to be farther from enemies), boosted Airburst is awesome. Don't forget the boosted Grind: we rarely used this spell previously due to dangerous range and large focus cost (14 POW vs. jacks have to be boosted, right?) Now we have Grind with RNG 12, "hand of fate" and extra damage. That really can cripple that Movement! And if not, we can cast the second Grind. Loss of War Dog will force to screen Irusk carefully; I guess the assassination armies that aren't slowed by Inhospitable Ground will enjoy replacing the puppie

eIrusk - Still gaining boosted Airburst and more range for Battle Lust, but here we have no Inhospitable and no Grind. Moreover, the feat dictates that Irusk should catch enemies into his control area (14"), so I cannot declare that Wyshnalyrr is automatically better than the dog here. Note that the dog is benefitting from Martial Discipline and Tough, while the elf is going to be quite easy to kill.

Karchev - The elf all the way! If enemies are getting to attack Karchev in melee, you're likely to be losing anyway, and even in such cases extra focus may be better than +2 DEF. Extra focus on the feat turn means extra attack of some powerful jack, and that's great.

Old Witch - Wyshnalyrr is very attractive, making Gallows RNG 12 and boosted, but don't forget that it's usually cast through Arc Node. Extra free upkeep is precious! The problem is: the OW is the weakest caster we have, but she likes to collect souls with her claws, so she really needs the dog too. I cannot say that the elf is automatically better. Don't forget that he costs more and is killed more easily (no Tough).

pSorscha - The elf! The elf! Everything for the elf!!! Free upkeep of Fog of War, enhanced Freezing Grip with RNG 10 (now we can freeze that caster with Wind Rush + Grip even without the feat!), enhanced Tempest with RNG 10 (who needs to freeze them if you can KD them and deal damage?) War Dog isn't needed, since Sorscha almost always attacks with Wind Rush that provides +2 DEF.

eSorscha - The elf is good, but not as important as with pSorscha. There is no Tempest here, and Freezing Grip isn't such attractive. Unlike Wind Rush, Cyclone doesn't provide extra DEF. And, besides all that, Iron Flesh is frequently dropped to allow charges. The elf is probably still better, but not an auto-choice.

Strakhov - Wyshnalyrr looks like a no-brainer, since Strakhov is probably the most focus-strained caster we have. Unfortunately, he needs to be within 12" from enemies on the feat turn. You will have to replace War Dog with other forms of defense, i.e. clouds, wall of IFP etc.

pVlad - good ole doggie! The elf has absolutely no sense here.

eVlad - things aren't easy here. Yes, the elf will save 1 focus, but that is going to be all his purpose (unless you're going to cast Razor Winds, of course). One extra focus for Transference may be a difference between a caster kill and a loss. On the other hand, don't forget that eVlad needs to be in combat and likes to be damaged a bit - to collect focus from Blood Trials and activate Might of Kings. The doggie prevents free strikes and back strikes and provides +2 DEF. That means that enemy beaters will either need to kill the dog first or miss most of the time, providing bonuses to Vlad. Without the dog, you will be forced to screen you caster in the situations where you could just rush forward if you had the dog. Thus, I vote for the dog here. Don't forget that the dog is the valid target for the feat and Transference, if you ever need that.

Zerkova - now this time the elf is really a no-brainer The only reason not to include him is her new theme force.

pButcher - again, the elf looks great, but you will have to keep the Butcher outside the melee, since DEF 14 can be hit by most good jacks even without boosts. One extra focus is great for him, and now we can think about Obliteration. RNG 12 with AOE 4 and such power, enhanced by "hand-of-fate" effect? Yes please! Al least the opponent will be forced to consider this, even if you have no other AOEs in your army. On the other hand, the war dog allows him to enter the fight himself, and it's allowed in his theme force, which is really good. No automatic choice here.

eButcher - what can be reliable about this maniac? The elf could allow a free Fury and enhanced Eliminator, but you cannot be sure that eButcher will have 3 focus for it. As long as most players like his theme force, War Dog is going to win here.

Harkevich - yet again the theme force restrictions make War Dog the only choice, if you like the benefits (and they're really huge). The elf isn't very good even outside the theme force: one free focus and nothing more, but War Dog also does nothing most of the time, as Harkevich isn't a good melee fighter. I'd say both have roughly equal chances here.

[Mercykiller]

Disagree with your Karchev analysis, mainly because you forgot to include one huge thing: the dog negates the backstrike bonus of even ranged attacks, and of all our casters Karchev is most likely to be the one mooning the enemy. That pulls them roughly even IMO, and keep in mind he can outpace the elf thus disallowing his *action while the dog can happily run and give his passive bonus.

[Ector]

Disagree with your Karchev analysis, mainly because you forgot to include one huge thing: the dog negates the backstrike bonus of even ranged attacks, and of all our casters Karchev is most likely to be the one mooning the enemy. That pulls them roughly even IMO

Hmm, looks like you're right here.

and keep in mind he can outpace the elf thus disallowing his *action while the dog can happily run and give his passive bonus.

Why would the elf use his *action? He's just for saving 1 focus on Side Arms or Tow.

[jameslsummers]

no his *action is a mini s&p on next spell cast

[sliganian]

Problem with all the analysis: It fails to account for the fact that the elf model is butt-ugly looking, while the War Dog model is sculpted from undiluted awesome.

Dog wins for every caster.

[Mercykiller]

Got it mixed up with his mini S&P ability; thought the free upkeep was an action. That does up his stock a bit, but I think the "no backstrike" from the puppy will really be a strong contender for Big K. Difficult decision is difficult, unless you're bricking with Sidearms. In that case Wishnailer does definitely become better as you'll only moon the enemy on a potential assassination turn.

[JPRoth1980]

With Karchev, I have to admit, I'm a bit conflicted. I mean, with a Koldun Lord and Wishnailer, suddenly I have 1 focus on all three 'Jacks when I go for the kill (or let Karchev keep a focus to buy an attack if something is within 11".)

However, the Dog has its perks as well. Immunity to free strikes is just plain nice, as is the no-backstrike. However, I've often stated that the Koldun Lord was 2 points for an extra Focus, and Wishnailer is the same. If I can justify taking Bad Santa, surely Saddle Elf is worth it, too?

[Mercykiller]

Except you never had to choose between Bad Santa and the Doggie

[Ector]

After some thinking, I still consider Wyshnalyrr much better for Karchev. The enemies will get +2 to their ranged back strikes - so what? This is going to happen on the Tow turn, when your jacks have already charged their targets. Karchev isn't going to have high DEF at that time anyway.

[JPRoth1980]

Except you never had to choose between Bad Santa and the Doggie

This much is true, but, to an extent, the War Dog is thrown in as an incidental. I mean, it's a darned useful single-point solo and it's always useful, but Karchev with (effective) 7 focus is just going to be mean.

Old Witch with (effective) 10 focus is even meaner, of course.