Constance Blaize, Divine Intervention, and using the feat effectively

[sleet01]

It seems like most of the early lists and strategies using Blaize revolve around force-feeding an infantry army to the enemy, taking heavy losses to generate souls in a self-regulating process, then finally using one or two melee beatsticks and the surviving troops (buffed by Transference) to wipe out the enemy army.

My question: is this the only effective way to utilize the feat?

In my only game with Blaize to date, I took three full melee units with minimal ranged elements and lost much of my army. One mistake I made was that I popped her feat too soon; my opponent merely backed off and waited until the next round to crush my army. But even if I had timed the feat perfectly to obtain souls from all the infantry I lost in the next round, I'm not sure I could have made much of that surplus. With only two heavy warjacks in a 50-point army, and Transference not useful on Charge attacks except for boosting the hit, I feel like much of the ~10 extra Focus would have stayed on Constance and been useful only as extra Armor until my next turn.

So I'm considering alternate uses for that extra focus. My main ideas:

1. Melee-oriented 'jack-heavy list. If I could fit 3 or 4 heavy melee face-beaters into the list and use my cheap melee infantry to soak up the enemy's first wave, the subsequent turn would consist of Constance allocating three focus to each, casting Crusader's Call, and then hanging out with a few focus left to boost her ARM while the 'jacks demolish the enemy's front line. Lanyssa Ryssyll and Strangewayes would probably go in this list for extra movement tricks, along with at least one Stormclad (and requisite Stormblades).

2. Charger Spam. If eNemo can do it, maybe Constance can too. Losing six troops under the feat should give Constance enough focus to fully boost four Chargers, which should put a hurt on most front-line units. Surviving troops can then charge up, keeping the Chargers and Constance from getting engaged for another turn. Gallant, some Stormguard or PKs, and a solo or two round out a 35-point list.

3. Spell Spam. Mix two Lancers, a couple units of Sword Knights, and a Squire or Welshnylons with Reinholdt's Lucky Charm and you've got a force that sprays Sunburst AOEs accurately, then Flanks hardcore in the aftermath of the initial massacre. This would *nasty* against low-DEF, low-ARM Cryx forces that rely on collecting corpses or calling back Banes.

4. Ranged units as fodder. The problem of your enemy avoiding an engagement while Divine Intervention is up becomes an advantage in this case, because you force them to choose between killing your front line to feed Blaize's feat or hanging back and eating another round of shooting. Unfortunately we don't have many cheap ranged units, or ranged units we can really afford to throw away, but a min unit of LGs + UA backed up by Nyss Hunters with Murdoch (or vice-versa) can do quite a bit of damage at range while still providing souls if your enemy comes in swinging. I'd probably take a Defender and Gallant as the 'jacks, and give them all the Focus they can handle if the Nyss can't use Transference effectively on the next turn.

What do you folks think?

[Sacredsouless]

I think SB's will be the best with her. They hit hard enough to kill most anything in melee and the Transference bonus is just that, a bonus against harder to damage targets (that you don't want to CMA). And this also means your opponent will want to kill them, but they will have to choose between killing and giving you focus, or leaving them alone only to have them charge up and wreck his front lines (or stand still and wreck his front lines). I would probably have a Min unit out in front and a max right behind it. That way you can at least shoot your own guys in the back for the AOE against the enemy models (assuming guys from the min unit survive).

[slinkdawg]

Plus, for the heavy warjack choices, you could run a storm clad and gallant to hang with our PKs and Stormblades - cranking out even more focus efficiency.

With transference and plenty of focus, you can sufficiently allocate focus to your beatstick heavy jacks and boost your strong infantry survivors with the remaining focus. you have alot of victory conditions, and it lets your attrition losses compensate you with better options next turn.

[Dai]

Im all over your point 3. - The spell spam.

I would also go as far to use this tactic in a tier 4 50pt list.

Gallant, 2 lancers, versh, runewood, and then with 3 x 10 units of Swordknights and 2 x 10 (plus UA) units of Pk's running 16" turn one, charging 11" turn 2 (tier bonuses), your opponent will never be able to kill enough to stop you getting into melee with at least 30 odd models. Turn 2 pop the feat with your pk's and sk's 37" across the table. These either wreck face if you opponent has been kind enough to let you charge them turn 3, or have died in huge numbers leaving you with 15+ extra focus. Constance, engorged on 20+ focus then hoses any infantry in range.

The lancers are moving up right behind the SK's helping them get the most from flank against any heavy armour.

The only downside I see to this list are the 30 sk's you will never use again :P

[Dai]

ok that list is 6 over. Drop a lancer. But thinking about it, the sk's move 14 inches turn 2, by charging with c.call and reforming 3 inches. Thats 40 inches across the table turn 2. Not bad!

[Bladestorm]

Note that if a model fails it's charge its activation ends immediately, so it doesn't get to reform.

[Anurien]

Charge of the Knight Brigade?...

Sword Knights FA?

And I dont think you can get that many bodies into 50pts? Need to drop a Lancer AND a few units of Knights.

But I am loving the idea

[imweasel]

I agree with everything that sleet said in his initial statement. True, it's one game, but it's a definite concern from our 'awesome' wrath caster that seems to be better as a merc caster.

As for point 1:
I don't think a heavy jack list will work for constance. Outside of crusader's call (and perhaps banishing ward), she doesn't have any other spells that supports jacks. I run into a fair number of medium based infantry in my neck of the woods, so trample is out. We don't have any thresh jacks at all. I just don't see this working. It takes more than focus to make a heavly melee jack list work.

Point 2:
I think charger spam in the fashion you are looking at really only works with enemo. There are a lot more of them and he doesn't force you to sacrifice 20 percent of your point total in infantry to make it work. Plus, he supports jacks a lot more than constance. Would be interesting to see if it could work. I just don't see being able to take 4 chargers, enough infantry to make a difference at 35pts. Might be slightly more viable at 50pts.

Point 3:
Interesting take on constance. But she is only 6 focus and most low arm models are fairly good defense. I don't think it's going to make a very good 'all-comers' list.

Point 4:
Outside of very few casters, and really factions, there are few that can make a shooty list work. This is an idea that seems terrible on paper but might work out ok, but I highly doubt it. But test it out and see if it will work.

[Halfhoot]

My list idea with her has Gallant and two Ironclads in a tier list so they all get advance move. Make it where they have to kill a decent chunk of infantry to get at one or the other Ironclad on feat turn. Then when you have a ton of focus... there'll have to be something decent for them to do.

Also my other thought is to use Constance herself as the assassination threat. Throw her forward as far as possible for two turns and then feat. Just make sure enough infantry is between her and them that she'll have the armor to take it when they get to her.

[Dai]

constance -6pts
gallant 9pts
lancer 6pts

10 pk's with ua 10pts
10 pk's with free ua 8pts
10 sk's 6pts
10 sk's 6pts
10 sk's 6pts
harlan 2pts
runewood 3pts

boom! 50pts. It fits

[PG_Endgame]

To everyone suggesting 30 sword knights, they are only FA2 and IIRC, Constance only makes precursors FA:U.

Back to the main topic at hand, I am also struggling with how to build out a Constance list. Perhaps attrition is the key? Send in the first wave of infantry, maybe commandos or something to eliminate enemy infantry and pop feat. Then Crusader's call and charge to put you ahead of the attrition curve? Maybe the first wave needs to be multiple units all at once? Desperate pace Commandos + Murdoch w/ Nyss Hunters + Crusaders call is a pretty sick amount of charge range, and fairly durable depending on where you put your buffs. First turn run & Screen with Nyss, Second turn charge and feat, 3rd turn the Precursors charge in and pop mini feat to clean up whats left?

[Dan from Chicago]

I think two heavies are going to turn out to be a minimum requirement.

[imweasel]

I think two heavies are going to turn out to be a minimum requirement.

I don't know what to do with 2 heavies and constance. You have to take enough infantry to make the feat worth it. And unfortunately with the way the feat works, that means A LOT of infantry. It seems her t4 list is good when compared to other cygnar tiers (though that's not saying much). Our lack of reach infantry (in faction at least) is a big deterrent to pulling this feat off well every time. Thus cygnar infantry as a whole is subpar for this feat. PK's and stormblades are solid, but no reach and the rest is fairly lacking. Everything is friendly faction with her.

Steelheads seem to be better for this than anything I can think of in cygnar, outside of her tier list. I'm not sure you can build a solid cygnar all-comers non-tier list at less than 35 or possibly 50pts.

[PG_Deakon]

murdoch w/ nyss on her sounds good. I've got to say, she feels really hard to get what you want with her in 35 pts though. Also, while I do have a full unit of sk's, I try to refrain from buying multiple units for one caster...

[Anurien]

I was mucking about trying to come up with an 'emo about poor unit bad list' and thought of using a trencher unit up front as a screen and then sacrificing them.. then I got to thinking... actually...

Trencher wave screening your army then being sacrificed cos every one knows they "suck" in melee/close up. Oh, pop your feat.
The 2nd wave of PK's pop mini-feat, and advance into combat whilst under orders Shield wall, constance boosts them, with and additioonal +d6 for POW12+4D6 damage... Maybe Gallant to help mop anything else up. Constance to use reach and take out anything left with her masses of Focus.

3rd Wave. Something with CRA for sniping anything left? More Trenchers for a smoke screen down one side or Long gunners behind the initial smoke screen even ATGMs.

Seems to me Constance really wants to play upfront brutal and messy. Yes its takes lots of stuff to smash the enemy in melee, weather the attrition and time her feat right so she can go on a solo hunting mission or her precursors can chew through everything.

[Dan from Chicago]

I don't know what to do with 2 heavies and constance. You have to take enough infantry to make the feat worth it. And unfortunately with the way the feat works, that means A LOT of infantry. It seems her t4 list is good when compared to other cygnar tiers (though that's not saying much). Our lack of reach infantry (in faction at least) is a big deterrent to pulling this feat off well every time. Thus cygnar infantry as a whole is subpar for this feat. PK's and stormblades are solid, but no reach and the rest is fairly lacking. Everything is friendly faction with her.

Steelheads seem to be better for this than anything I can think of in cygnar, outside of her tier list. I'm not sure you can build a solid cygnar all-comers non-tier list at less than 35 or possibly 50pts.

Points in no particular order:

1. Very rarely CAN you build a true all comers list at 25 points. If that's your standard you're going to be disappointed ALOT

2. We do have in faction reach infantry, even if you never use them. And Constance gives them a 12" threat range.

3. What to due with Constance and two heavies ... post feat:
3a. Load them with as much focus as you like
3b. Cast Crusdaders Call
3c. Have the Heavies Charge
3d. Watch them trash stuff

How much focus are you trying to get out of the feat? Honestly, if you get 6 or so focus out of it, you're doing great. Any more and you've probably lost more than you want to.

[Dan from Chicago]

I was mucking about trying to come up with an 'emo about poor unit bad list' and thought of using a trencher unit up front as a screen and then sacrificing them.. then I got to thinking... actually...

Trencher wave screening your army then being sacrificed cos every one knows they "suck" in melee/close up. Oh, pop your feat.
The 2nd wave of PK's pop mini-feat, and advance into combat whilst under orders Shield wall, constance boosts them, with and additioonal +d6 for POW12+4D6 damage... Maybe Gallant to help mop anything else up. Constance to use reach and take out anything left with her masses of Focus.

3rd Wave. Something with CRA for sniping anything left? More Trenchers for a smoke screen down one side or Long gunners behind the initial smoke screen even ATGMs.

Seems to me Constance really wants to play upfront brutal and messy. Yes its takes lots of stuff to smash the enemy in melee, weather the attrition and time her feat right so she can go on a solo hunting mission or her precursors can chew through everything.

I'd argue TCs are a better choice than TIs. I've found that Trencher Commndos often force your opponent to react to you ... plus with grenades, MAT 7 and anatomical precision they can seriously threaten many screens your opponent might deploy

[Gramut]

So we know the major weakness of Blaize's feat is it requires our troops to be killed by the enemy and as pointed out by Sleet, your opponent can just back up and then get the charge off on the turn the feat expires.

I also agree that a Tier list at 35pts...Constance is at a definite disadvantage. A Tier list at 50pts however shows a bit more potential from the sheer amount of troops that can be fielded and while they don't have reach (not going to beat a dead house at this point) the fact that your opponent has potential 40+ models bearing down on him or her might give a bit of cause for worry. You can even squeeze in a centurian or ironclad into the mix as well if you are careful with your points at the 50pt level.

The other point we need to look at is what imweasel is saying...is Constance better served as a Merc Caster where you have access to cheap troops with Reach (e.g. Steelheads) and cheap jacks with reach (e.g. Nomads and others) where there is a definite posibility of fielding multiple heavies and multiple troops? There is some serious appeal to field a couple of units of Steelhead Halb, a unit of Precursors and a few Nomads.

I think both Tier, Non-Tier, and Merc lists have the possiblity to due very well...the big gamble is when to pop the feat.

Do speed your boys forward and pop feat first turn or wait till they get dug in to CC, lose a few (should have plenty to spare) and then pop the feat on the 2nd or even as late as 3rd Turn?

[NecroMerlinoid]

Points in no particular order:

1. Very rarely CAN you build a true all comers list at 25 points. If that's your standard you're going to be disappointed ALOT

2. We do have in faction reach infantry, even if you never use them. And Constance gives them a 12" threat range.

3. What to due with Constance and two heavies ... post feat:
3a. Load them with as much focus as you like
3b. Cast Crusdaders Call
3c. Have the Heavies Charge
3d. Watch them trash stuff

How much focus are you trying to get out of the feat? Honestly, if you get 6 or so focus out of it, you're doing great. Any more and you've probably lost more than you want to.

I have to agree with the last; after gathering a half-dozen souls, most infantry are difficult to kill barring 'jacks with thresher. After PKs and SBs are at ARM20+, the only way to reliably get rid of them is by spending serious resources doing so. Further, it's entirely possible that the frontline is immune to spells entirely, which means the enemy has no choice but to deal with it head-on.

I'm doubtful that Constance will often get more than 10 souls because of the way it works (unless you're bringing ARM 10-11 guys to the table, like Gunmages or Rangers). So bringing 40 troopers in an attempt to cash in on piles of souls isn't going to pan out that often imo.

[CygnusUK]

To me her feat is more suited to scenario play, run/charge units into control zone and pop feat, this will force your opponent to attack head on to contest and risk a heavy counter attack next turn or risk loosing control points to stay safe and get charged the turn after.

[sleet01]

I've given it some thought and I think I have a fifth, more likely, scenario, but I don't think anybody's going to like it.

#5. Dedicated support in 100+ point games only. Make a 95-point army with your favorite caster; I'm going to use pHaley for this example. Save your last 5 points for Constance, Gallant, and whichever Warcaster Attachment you like (or have two of). Constance is there for three reasons: to turn your front line troops into an ablative shield you don't mind losing; to provide Transference; and to support your main army with spells and, if necessary, melee combat. If she dies, well, you still have your main caster.

Basically this would work best with extra-attack casters like eStryker or pHaley, where you can get your charge attacks and then use Transference to take another swing, boosted, with all troops in the control area. pHaley would be ideal because her DEF debuff would let most troops swing without boosting attacks and so use Transference focus strictly for damage boosting. But eStryker's feat would also be enhanced significantly, as troops could charge the front line, then advance 3" and hit the second line just as hard. In turn two or three, pop Blaize's feat and let the enemy try to fight their way to your army's juicy center; next turn, hit them back, twice, with extra boosting.

The more I consider ways to use Blaize better, the more I find myself wishing she had just one more spell. TB, TA, Blur, Full Throttle, Deadeye, Snipe, *anything* to provide more rounded support to her army. Then I realize I can just take her with another 'caster, and all those extra spells are there to use. I'm beginning to believe that Blaize is meant first and foremost to be the second 'caster in two-caster games. She can hold the middle of an army to grab souls and hand out focus, or possibly intercept an incursion into your forces by the enemy, but the real center of your forces will always be another caster. Blaize just doesn't do enough for non-melee, non-troop armies to play the combined arms game on her own.

[sleet01]

I have to agree with the last; after gathering a half-dozen souls, most infantry are difficult to kill barring 'jacks with thresher. After PKs and SBs are at ARM20+, the only way to reliably get rid of them is by spending serious resources doing so. Further, it's entirely possible that the frontline is immune to spells entirely, which means the enemy has no choice but to deal with it head-on.

Well, I can think of two factions that can wipe out her army with minimal effort and little to no repercussions: Cryx and PoM. Cryx because they can have soul-taking models closer to the front than Constance, or effects that preempt Constance's feat, allowing them to kill models without increasing the ARM of any models. Cryx and PoM both because, as far as I can tell, continuous effects don't generate souls so they can hit with some sprays, kill a few models off, but do their *real* damage in Blaize's control phase.

[Halfhoot]

Honestly I would play her infantry the way I'd play any infantry. That's probably the best use of her feat... try to get the alpha charge off just like you normally would!! Think about it... play the way you always do and try to get your alpha charge off. You have the help of +2" charge range. Once you charge their front line and kill it... then you can feat.

A normal game without Constance you would have played exactly as you just did getting the charge off. Your front line is going to die. JUST EXACTLY like it would have with any caster you were playing at all. That front line assault will die. That's the way infantry works. This way you get a big benefit from them dying that's all. I'm not sure why people are talking about having to throw away infantry to get her feat benefit... if you don't want to do that then don't. Play and use that +2" to try to get the alpha charge just as you would with any other caster. Then her feat is simply helping you benefit from what would have happened anyway no matter who you were playing running infantry.

In her tier I'll be running the Ironclads like I said to have multiple threats. Who cares if you can't use both of them on turn two... you can at least throw one in the way later on or tremor or just hold one back as a surviving heavy hitter to mop up after all the other troops are played out.

In a non-tier list I'll probably run Gallant and a Stormclad on her with PK and Stormblades and Halberdiers (I'd use stormguard if I owned them probably). I don't think I'd ever play her with *just* Gallant. Huge numbers of infantry are great... but they take up so much physical room I just think after a while another unit is not going to benefit you all that much... besides the sheer issue of trying to maneuver them all combined with the time it would take to deal with them.

[Aetou]

I've given it some thought and I think I have a fifth, more likely, scenario, but I don't think anybody's going to like it.

#5. Dedicated support in 100+ point games only. Make a 95-point army with your favorite caster; I'm going to use pHaley for this example. Save your last 5 points for Constance, Gallant, and whichever Warcaster Attachment you like (or have two of). Constance is there for three reasons: to turn your front line troops into an ablative shield you don't mind losing; to provide Transference; and to support your main army with spells and, if necessary, melee combat. If she dies, well, you still have your main caster.

I pretty much agree with this - she is basically a mid-tier 'caster who can do decently but isn't in the same league as our big four. That said, I think even as a second 'caster with eHaley I'd rather run eStryker or eCaine if I was trying to be nasty.

Of the 'making her work' options you listed I think I pretty much argued for #4 in one of the List threads a few days ago. I wouldn't go for LGers+UA (just bad) or Murdoch+Nyss (too easy to lose their souls/bonus) but running her with ATGM+UA+B13 and some Storm Smiths is going to be pretty solid. Not as fodder, per se, just as models that your opponent will find it hard to ignore and so will generate you some souls while she tanks her way quickly up the middle with Gallant.

Edit to add: that's in addition to Stormguard, Junior, PKs, eEiryss, Ana, etc., of course.

[Dan from Chicago]

Well, I can think of two factions that can wipe out her army with minimal effort and little to no repercussions: Cryx and PoM. Cryx because they can have soul-taking models closer to the front than Constance, or effects that preempt Constance's feat, allowing them to kill models without increasing the ARM of any models. Cryx and PoM both because, as far as I can tell, continuous effects don't generate souls so they can hit with some sprays, kill a few models off, but do their *real* damage in Blaize's control phase.

Granted, the continuous effects are going to be a pain

Regarding the soul collectors, Most of them will need to be on front lines in order to really nerf Constance's feat. In a steam roller, if you see a Cryx list with Terminus or a crap-ton of Harrowers and Wraith Engines and such, you probably don't want to play the Constance list against it, but Iron Lich Overseers or Denny's soul collecting shouldn't hurt too much.

[total aside]It would really be awesome(and quite fluffy IMO), if precursors had a rule preventing enemy models from getting soul tokens from them ... being protected by Morrow and all

[back on thread]Our new caster may indeed turn out to only be mid-tier, but it's way too early to tell

[Bladestorm]

The feat expires after the fire checks though, so the ARM bonus is in effect. I actually see that as a pretty good thing, given an infantry heavy army would get slaughtered if that wasn't the case.

[Amarel]

After some experience versus other Soul Takers, I'm going to have to advise people against just loading up with frontline infantry - you're going to get mugged for those Souls and the Feat benefit is going to be minimal (some shifting around to ensure that the Souls end up not going to Connie, but not a huge activation / movement issue).

You need that annoying ranged threat lined up behind your PK's that your opponent wants to take out but can't without getting specific models in there (to steal the Souls) - that's where the Feat works; you either get those Souls or he flaps and flusters over taking out the frontline troops that you're prepared to lose.

It does make her very tricky to build for at 35pts, somewhat difficult at 50 and much easier at 75.

[FearLord]

A few thoughts:

1) As with all Defensive feats your opponent is always going to have the option to just ignore you, however:

i) Refusing to kill any of my infantry for a turn is powerful in and of itself
and

ii) If you are playing in a tournament (and aren't playing Killbox) this is basically a non-issue, because if I rush 30 Infantry to the centre of the table, and you don't kill any, I've basically won...

2) Constance has numerous ways of making use of extra focus:

i) Load up any jacks you did bring, cast Crusaders call and bring the pain.

ii) Spam Sunburst - a Lancer seems like a good pick with her anyway, since its another reach jack when you aren't casting through for Flanking Sword Knights and with enough souls, she's basically as good as some Cryx casters at spell assassination (a few good fully boosted POW 13's can go along way from the right angle)

iii) Transference - requires some of your infantry or heavy hitters to survive, but can be potentially brutal against even the highest DEF casters. Can also allow you to get boosted damage even if you can't charge for some reason (ran up last turn to try and get killed for example). Still makes me wish for Mk1 Sword Knights however, because it would be so much nastier with models with 2 attacks... I'm still giving some thought to the models that get the best use out of Transference, but its just as well Alexia can't work with Constance, because the ability to buy attacks with Risen and boost attack and damage with Constance's focus would have been crazy!

iv) Camping - You've got a feat a little like Terminus'? How does he use it? Answer - pop feat and gather souls - ARM stupid, so can't be killed. Next turn, camp most of it and run at enemy caster - ARM still stupid. Next turn - kill caster. Granted, he has higher base ARM, is responsible for the number of souls he'll bring in, and has wings to ignore models blocking him, however Constance has better access to shooting models to clear line of sight and if she can create a gap big enough for her base she can run right up to them and camp ready for a flank beat down on the following turn...

v) Melee assassination run - if they're close enough to you, you can just go for the caster kill in melee - works much better if you can get a Morrow model forward for the flank, but she is actually fairly hard to stop in this regard:
a) Respectable 13" Threat range for a charge.
b) can use other models to clear a path first - using transference if needed.
c) Can cast flashing blade to clear enemies out of her way before or after her charge movement and could use Sunburst to do the same to models in the middle
d) Ability to ignore all but the worst free strikes, since you'd have access to a very high ARM stat, especially if you hadn't had to use any of it first (ARM 23 + whatever your soul bonus was.

3) Continuous effects - Fire isn't as big an issue as it seems - since models will have the ARM bonus from the souls when the fire damages them. Corrosion will be horrible, but it is far less prolific than fire, and baring bad positioning vs Bile Thralls, I don't see losing a few models to corrosion as nerfing my list...

4) Problems with the feat - it seems the biggest issues for her will be models that mess with souls - The Testament of Menoth will be a rough match up, as will some Cryx builds (although most of their stuff that gathers souls is pretty close ranged and caps out so this only goes so far). She does have an advantage against traditional Cryx arc node spam lists in that she can effectively make herself immune to spell assassination with Banishing Ward, so its swings and roundabouts really - I need to play against a few more Cryx lists with her before I decide what kind of impact their standard soul taking will have...

The other issue is around "Two turn feats" (where the first turn is set up for a big offensive turn to come next) in that the feat obviously telegraphs that you will have an better offensive capacity in the following turn and allows you to pop your own defensive feat in response - this makes casters like eSkarre, eDenegrah, pDenegrah, eHaley, etc hard to play well against, because they can save their feats to counter yours...

[Defenstrator]

A normal game without Constance you would have played exactly as you just did getting the charge off. Your front line is going to die. JUST EXACTLY like it would have with any caster you were playing at all. That front line assault will die. That's the way infantry works. This way you get a big benefit from them dying that's all. I'm not sure why people are talking about having to throw away infantry to get her feat benefit... if you don't want to do that then don't. Play and use that +2" to try to get the alpha charge just as you would with any other caster. Then her feat is simply helping you benefit from what would have happened anyway no matter who you were playing running infantry.

I completely concur. There is nothing about her feat that is so special that you want your army to get killed to fuel it. Instead play the game normally, take advantage of the increased threat range, and accept the feat is just a supplement rather than a big game changer.

[RionikuAnjiru]

I see a lot of people saying that during the feat turn people can just "Wait and ignore your army for a turn", which is just not true in most scenario games. Even in Killbox you don't want 30+ knights all up in your grill next turn because you didn't kill any for fear of granting souls.

Also, Cryx is going to be a ***** of a matchup for Constance due to her feat being written by someone that was recently lobotomized. It's a feat but it doesn't ignore other soul collection mechanics? Oh yeah. That makes total sense and is completely fair.

And she's supposed to be an "anti-undead" warcaster...

[NecroMerlinoid]

Of the 'making her work' options you listed I think I pretty much argued for #4 in one of the List threads a few days ago. I wouldn't go for LGers+UA (just bad) or Murdoch+Nyss (too easy to lose their souls/bonus) but running her with ATGM+UA+B13 and some Storm Smiths is going to be pretty solid. Not as fodder, per se, just as models that your opponent will find it hard to ignore and so will generate you some souls while she tanks her way quickly up the middle with Gallant.

Edit to add: that's in addition to Stormguard, Junior, PKs, eEiryss, Ana, etc., of course.

I think Nyss and JM could work. With Banishing Ward on them spells aren't as much of an issue (watch out for chain lightning and the like), and parking JM in the back near Gallant gives him a bullet taker once per turn.

[sleet01]

I can see Nyss being a great option with her because they are a credible threat at range and not shabby in melee. They're pretty expensive if you take a full unit plus Murdoch, but he brings concomitant benefits that, I feel, balance the cost.

@RionikuAnjiru Well, I was playing a scenario and my opponent had no problem avoiding me. Granted, I popped the feat a turn too early, defensively. But I think a lot of scenarios allow for avoidance: any SR2011 scenario with large control areas, or more than two objectives, your opponent can probably avoid your army for the large part while contesting with cheap grunts, *if* you use the feat as a defensive measure. More and more I'm inclined to think Blaize should pop her feat only at the beginning of a turn when her forces are in range of the enemy, or after her forces have engaged.

[Defenstrator]

I see a lot of people saying that during the feat turn people can just "Wait and ignore your army for a turn", which is just not true in most scenario games. Even in Killbox you don't want 30+ knights all up in your grill next turn because you didn't kill any for fear of granting souls.

Also, Cryx is going to be a ***** of a matchup for Constance due to her feat being written by someone that was recently lobotomized. It's a feat but it doesn't ignore other soul collection mechanics? Oh yeah. That makes total sense and is completely fair.

I will fully admit that this is theorymachine becuase I haven't played her, but from my experience playing against Makeda who has a similar feat, that's basicly what you do. Kill the stuff that's in the way, then beat up on things her feat won't affect like warjacks. Also, in scenarios that split your army your opponent might just wipe out part of your force knowing the resst are too far away for an effective counter attack. Her feat becomes an extra Sunburst or two. I'm not saying this is how it is, I'm saying this is my concern based on my experience.

I also agree that there is nothing anti-undead about her at all. EVlad is more anti-undead than her. At least his sword is made to hurt them.

[Bladestorm]

How about the Cent for her second warjack then, it can pop Polarity shield and be harder to get at in the rear?

[sleet01]

Yeah, I'm definitely rethinking my 'no Centurions' policy since A) Crusader's Call makes them a bit faster, B) they help out SKs for fewer points than Stormclads, and C) the plastic kit is coming out next quarter. But more than likely I'd only take them on the Sword Knights or another caster in a two-caster game since they don't have to be Connie's to benefit and other casters (or the SK UA) provide them with more benefits. They'd flummox a first strike or countercharge pretty well, though.

[vintersbastard]

Also, Cryx is going to be a ***** of a matchup for Constance due to her feat being written by someone that was recently lobotomized. It's a feat but it doesn't ignore other soul collection mechanics? Oh yeah. That makes total sense and is completely fair.

Terminus' feat doesn't ignore collection mechanics, either, hence many Cryx players fretting about soul competition.
It takes the Testament of Menoth with one of the most holy relics of the Menites to deny soul collection, so why would you expect a mere priestess to be as effective?

[PG_Agamemnon]

Terminus' feat doesn't ignore collection mechanics, either, hence many Cryx players fretting about soul competition.
It takes the Testament of Menoth with one of the most holy relics of the Menites to deny soul collection, so why would you expect a mere priestess to be as effective?

Basically because we all know that women collect souls for sport... at least a lot better than some mute guy with a trinket. Unless he got it from Warehouse 13.

Nyss seem like a great choice till you think about your opponent killing of Murdoch. They are now no longer friendly faction models so there is no soul collecting going on when they die. That is part of the reason you took them in the first place or at least why I would take them.

[Cardboard]

You pretty much have to use her feat like pStryker's; you get less effect most of the time, but greater payoff the next turn. This means however, that you must have a way to force your opponent to commit forces. Thus you'll have incredibly amounts of trouble with non "blitz the center" scenarios if you don't have a solid ranged element, as canny opponents will just back off. It also means you have to start at a decent ARM for it to do anything before half your force is gone. If you pop it too early, you generally get very little payoff in that they back off and you get no souls while being no closer to your goal. If you pop it too late, you've already lost your force. Very tricky to use right, not a very high payoff when you do I've found. I'll keep testing so far; turns out my original assumptions on some models were pretty off. The Avenger is quite nice, and Blaize is worse than my original expectations. Perhaps a list change might helps

[TheTrueBlue]

I just played a Steamroller tournament today, and I went 3-1 with the following list:

Constance -6
Gallant (9)
Squire (2)
Precursor Knights (8)
+ UA (2)
Sword Knights (6)
Journeyman (3)
Black 13 (4)
Aiyana and Holt (4)
Rupert (2)
Reinholdt (1)

There are a couple things here that I wished I had (Runewood for one [aside: When is he coming out?]). Rhupert is really effective with Constance to the point where I wished that he was included in the theme list. I'm definitely running him in my 50 pt list. In higher point games, it is really critical to have Runewood too, because then you can give Pathfinder to two units, instead of deciding which one should get it, thus denying a unit some movement. This would have helped a couple times during the tournament. In general, having two guys buffing your infantry is very nice, when we generally don't have that many movement buffs (as compared to the other factions).

Anyway, back to tactics. Her feat does work well in Steamroller events, especially during control area scenarios. I generally ran my forces as usual, move everything as fast as I can (as Halfhoot suggested), and it worked great. Control points all around! At 50 pts I'll probably run this list:

Constance -6
Gallant (9)
Ol' Rowdy (9)
Squire (2)
Precursor Knights (8)
+ UA (2)
Precursor Knights (8)
Sword Knights (6)
Journeyman (3)
Black 13 (4)
Aiyana and Holt (4)
Rupert (2)
Harlen Versh (2)

The plan here is that Constance loves focus efficient jacks outside of the post-feat turn. The way i run her is to cast Arcane Shield on her and keep it on her, so when she's at full focus she's at ARM 25, making her very hard to kill. The only way that she really spends focus is to either allocate it when it's needed, when Transference is up, or if she is making an assassination run (with Flank this is just great. Love it!). I did such an assassination run once during the tournament (but he was using Borka, so he kept stumbling away. Eventually I surrounded him with Precursors so he couldn't go anywhere).

[RuneGrey]

I do have to ask - what Cryx models are you going to see that have Cull Soul or Soul taker that are going to be on the front line? Remember, you can run Constance very close to the front on feat turn, but behind a good sized block of your own models. Harrowers are a problem, so is the old classic, the Deathjack, as is the Wraith Engine if it gets up in your grill... but if you're running Constance forward at this point, there's very little else that isn't using Dark Fire that can compete with Constance for souls if she's close to the front of your army. And Precursors aren't valid Dark Fire targets.

Terminus will generally be back further than Constance in this scenario, because if he's not he's risking his screen being close enough to be killed and an disruptor bolt being put into his skull - also most Terminus players are probably not going to risk *their* important feat turn fighting for souls with Constance, when they might only get half at best. Terminus wants 4 or 5 souls, and he might not get that much if the Cryx player has to split the difference. eGaspy will be further back, and Soul Reaper doesn't ignore collection distance mechanics.

Overall, for a 2nd wave or back of the 1st wave caster, Constance doesn't have to worry about fighting for souls as much as you might think. There ARE things to watch out for, there's no doubt about that. But I don't think she's auto-beaten by soul collection models as people assume, since the majority of the models with the ability in Cryx need to be within 2" to do so.

I do think there is a good point to taking some ranged with her as well - I think Trencher Commandos provide an excellent threat that people will want to kill due to their multi-aspect threats (AOE bombs for squishy models, carbines for slower, tougher infantry, and trench knifes for melee range). And with their trench knifes and anatomical precision, they get excellent benefit from Crusader's Call - not to mention that they're actually as good as Storm Knights in melee. Gun Mages are also a good standby, and the Black 13th might not get a lot of benefit directly from her, but are always a solid choice.