Constance Blaize, Divine Intervention, and using the feat effectively

[Dan from Chicago]

If you find you're being out threated by enemy melee infantry, bring a pair of Cyclones and a unit of Sword Knights. While I'm somewhat adverse at this point to NOT bringing Gallant along with Constance, you don't particularly want to bring 27 points in jacks. Fennblades, Banes, Kayazy, etc can't cross the covering fire templates, which guarentees you the charge, especially with the threat range boost of Crusaders Call. You don't really even care that your jacks aren't heavy hitters since precursors w/ mini feat & flanking sword knights hit plenty hard against enemy heavies, especially when you have transference to ensure you hit the higher def enemy models like some of the Legion beasts. Likewise, you don't want to entirely base your offense on single wound melee infantry either since they are just plain too easy to shut down.

How about 1 Cyclone and 2 Trencher Chain guns? I know the pow is lower but it should still be effective

[Strangelove]

How about 1 Cyclone and 2 Trencher Chain guns? I know the pow is lower but it should still be effective

I had been thinking about a Cyclone. I think the issue with the TCG is the fact that it isn't mobile.

[Dyoria]

Well now that we have all agreed to disagree on how she should be played, here is another interesting question.

Squire or Wyshnailer on Connie?

Arcane Realignment vs Arcane Secrets = Difficult to say, she has one offensive spell. What is better: 2d6+6 with a reroll; or 3d6-d6+6 to hit and damage? I think by virtue of increasing the probability of damage (especially on her aoe spell). Edge: Arcane Secrets

Arcane Repeater vs Spiritual Conduit = Most difficult to decide. Arcane Repeater adds 2" to the control area, which means it adds 4" to the diameter of her feat. Spiritual Conduit will help her get past the fact that you are not bringing along an arc node. Not only for Sunburst, but to increase the range at which you can slap on Banishing Ward to respond to enemy upkeeps. Edge: Arcane Repeater

Reserve Accumulator vs Arcane Assistance = Most difficult choice. Reserve Accumulator's 1 bonus focus 3 times is great. Arcane Assistance means the Trancendence you will be upkeeping every round is always free. If you upkeep Trancendence for 3+ turns Arcane Assistance wins out. If Connie does the killing herself by spamming Flashing Blade, she might elect to drop the Trancendence in the control phase, thus the extra focus buys an additional attack. Edge: Arcane Assistance

When working it out like this, I think Wyshnayler might be better then a Squire on Connie.

[Menoth Kid]

Well now that we have all agreed to disagree on how she should be played, here is another interesting question.

Squire or Wyshnailer on Connie?

Arcane Realignment vs Arcane Secrets = Difficult to say, she has one offensive spell. What is better: 2d6+6 with a reroll; or 3d6-d6+6 to hit and damage? I think by virtue of increasing the probability of damage (especially on her aoe spell). Edge: Arcane Secrets

Arcane Repeater vs Spiritual Conduit = Most difficult to decide. Arcane Repeater adds 2" to the control area, which means it adds 4" to the diameter of her feat. Spiritual Conduit will help her get past the fact that you are not bringing along an arc node. Not only for Sunburst, but to increase the range at which you can slap on Banishing Ward to respond to enemy upkeeps. Edge: Arcane Repeater

Reserve Accumulator vs Arcane Assistance = Most difficult choice. Reserve Accumulator's 1 bonus focus 3 times is great. Arcane Assistance means the Trancendence you will be upkeeping every round is always free. If you upkeep Trancendence for 3+ turns Arcane Assistance wins out. If Connie does the killing herself by spamming Flashing Blade, she might elect to drop the Trancendence in the control phase, thus the extra focus buys an additional attack. Edge: Arcane Assistance

When working it out like this, I think Wyshnayler might be better then a Squire on Connie.

I think that the extra 2" of control area that the Squire brings is huge. Blaize really needs that extra area. When her troops standing in front of her charge 11" forward it allows them to stay inside Divine Intervention, something that is harder to accomplish with a 12" control area.

[sleet01]

Transference, not Transcendence.

If you want to maximize your feat souls (and are not playing against Cryx) then the Squire is a better option, as it A) lets Constance cover more area and have her forces engage in more places, and B) lets her play further back, adding some flexibility to positioning. I think I'll probably bring a Lancer with her from now on due to it doing triple duty (arc node, cortex-killer, and Flank source for SKs), so my need for extra offensive range is covered. This means the Squire is the better option for my play style, but I can see Welshnylons (what, no auto-correct, PP?) being the better option for a more up-front, aggressive play style.

If I played more than one game in my life where the Squire (or even the game) lasted into the fourth turn, I'd place more weight in the Reserve Accumulator vs. Arcane Assistance comparison. As it is, I'll take 3 actual focus over N free upkeeps, for the flexibility. Good analysis, though. I was originally completely opposed to Welshnylons being available to Cygnar - we've already got one! - but I see that he does bring a different play style, not just different abilities. I think he'll be excellent on, say, pCaine.

[Kej]

Self deleted

[Cardboard]

Yeah, Squire vs. Wishnailer is a no contest for the reigning champ R2D2. Seriously, you get 1 focus to spend on whatever you want, as opposed to upkeeping a spell of dubious value. The extra control range is huge for her, as it means you can play further back or spread your army. And if you're casting offensive spells, something probably went horribly wrong for one player. If she had a must have upkeep such as say, Defender's Ward, and a solid attack spell it might be worth it. Maybe. Probably not. Cygnar's kind of balanced around the Squire instead of the other way round, so it's doubtful.

[jr caster]

is anyone going to try to run only precursors with her? i mean alot of them because an army full of no spells will give a couple of cryx casters some troubles.

(yes it would be uber competitve i know)

[Cardboard]

is anyone going to try to run only precursors with her? i mean alot of them because an army full of no spells will give a couple of cryx casters some troubles.

(yes it would be uber competitve i know)

Not really; you'll be somewhat effective against Coven, eSkarre (probably not but it does help shut down perdition), and maybe Scav (stop excarnate shenanigans if you can make sure every single living warrior model has Spell Ward)? Everyone else has stuff like Blood Rain or Venom. There's also Satyxis to worry about. No magic is really annoying for Cryx when they can't get it on the 'caster and heavies (see: druids). Infantry dies too easily.

[sleet01]

Sadly, I've been unable to get my hands on even one box of PKs around here - they didn't even bring any to Lock and Load! - so I can't speak to this. I'd guess it could work, especially if you had Constance casting through them due to Ranked Attack from the UAs.

[leo_neil316]

Constance can also walk into the back of engaged percursors and kill everything engaging them with flashing blade without even trying hard (MAT 9 POW 13 weaponmaster ignoring spell buffs?) thanks to ranked attacks.

[Cardboard]

Got in another game with Blaize, against Sloan (and took it). Ran the list posted above, although I dropped a Stormgunner and Gorman for Runewood (just wanted to try and get some use out of him). I literally was playing sans warcaster; didn't cast a single spell all game. Seriously, the only thing Blaize did that a dead possum couldn't do it give Gallant focus via Accumulator.

I'm also really trying to figure out a good way to get rid of Gallant. He's just a bad 'jack, but if I lose him, then I've got no reliable flankers for a possible late game run.

[PG_Endgame]

I'm also really trying to figure out a good way to get rid of Gallant. He's just a bad 'jack, but if I lose him, then I've got no reliable flankers for a possible late game run.

I don't think he is bad with Constance based on my game with him. As long as your opponent is running some kind of model / unit with an upkeep, Gallant out damages any jack we have, not to mention the fact Gallant has a fair chance of hitting high def models w/ upkeeps like IF Winterguard.

[Cardboard]

I don't think he is bad with Constance based on my game with him. As long as your opponent is running some kind of model / unit with an upkeep, Gallant out damages any jack we have, not to mention the fact Gallant has a fair chance of hitting high def models w/ upkeeps like IF Winterguard.

Issue is that a large amount of the time the opponent just does not have upkeeps on their heavies, and when taking care of high def low arm models a Stormclad tends to do better due to eleap. Sure, it's nice to say "don't put upkeeps on your 'jacks/beasts," but if they weren't planning on doing it already it's kind of wasted. Hell, you can even keep your upkeeps as long as you're not in Gallant's charge range. 9pts is a hell of a lot for that; it's 1 Stormgunner short of another Stormclad even. At least, that's my observation from a lot of play with him

[Dark Fledgling]

Has anyone tried running a Lancer on Constance? I think simply adding it in gives an entirely new angle to play with. First, it lets you stay in the back and keep swapping Banishing Ward around as needed, but on feat turn it opens up possibilities for a spell assassination with her and POW 13 sunbursts. Now, lets look at some theory crafting based on the 2 games I've played with her.

In both the games I played, I was A) able to get the charge off with CC and B) lost a butt ton of infantry the next turn to sit on 12-15 focus(ish). Now the enemy is gonna be close enough that you wont need to use CC again, and if you charge again you wont need to be boosting with Transference (since we can bring troops with fairly high MAT and POW). Thing is, you cant charge if your engaged and all your lanes are blocked. Now, 1-3 Sunbursts fixes this. Because the blast damage only hurts enemy models, against any light infantry you can simply pop off a sunburst or two, let it scatter, and boost damage if needed, freeing up your charge lanes and letting your surviving infantry wreck face again.
Of course, this strategy is all good, but lets say the enemy caster/Lock isnt guarded all that properly. 1 Focus and a running lancer, combined with a 14" control (with squire) gives you plenty of space to manuver and shoot the enemy with again, a bunch of Range 10 POW 13 Sunbursts. Against anything less then ARM 19, a pair of these will greatly hurt, if not kill the enemy, and if enough infantry die, then a 3rd or even a 4th one could finish them off.

The last reason I think a Lancer would be a good call in her list is because its a reach jack. What loves reach jacks? Swordknights! What does Constance seem to want alot of? Cheap melee infantry! The match just seems really quite perfect to me and I can't wait to try it out.

Maybe something like this at 35 pts?

Constance +6
-Lancer 6
-Stormclad 10
-Squire 2
Sword Knights x10 6
Stormblades+UA 8
Black 13th 4
Junior 3
Piper 2

This would give you 2 reach jacks (for flank), Arcane Shield to protect on the advance, Tough and Pathfinder for general Awesomeness, Ranged support and solo hunting with the Black 13th, 10 flanking ARM 19 tough SPD 6 infantry on the front line, and a second wave of Assaulting Stormblades. This totals 21 infantry models on the table with the Black 13th, not including solos and the like. Thoughts?

And yes, this is also a good list for basically 2/3s of our other casters out there, we get it

-DF

[RionikuAnjiru]

Cardboard, have you considered that Constance is simply not for you?

Much in the way that pStryker, regardless of how many people tell me he is not that bad, will always be a horrible warcaster for me.

I've tried strategies that people posted, I've tried lists, I've tried everything and I can't stand him. He's a focus starved, useless-feated waste of a warcaster. Other people disagree and that's fine, I just couldn't win or have fun with him to save my life.

I can see lots of good stuff about Constance, her feat and her spell list. If you don't like her maybe it's time to let her go? Because right now we know you can't stand her and you think she's useless but it's becoming a little repetitive and frankly a little disheartening to hear about. Perhaps you should let other people experience her playstyle (she's still in the mail in my case) and post their own experiences?

[Menoth Kid]

Cardboard, have you considered that Constance is simply not for you?

Much in the way that pStryker, regardless of how many people tell me he is not that bad, will always be a horrible warcaster for me.

I've tried strategies that people posted, I've tried lists, I've tried everything and I can't stand him. He's a focus starved, useless-feated waste of a warcaster. Other people disagree and that's fine, I just couldn't win or have fun with him to save my life.

I can see lots of good stuff about Constance, her feat and her spell list. If you don't like her maybe it's time to let her go? Because right now we know you can't stand her and you think she's useless but it's becoming a little repetitive and frankly a little disheartening to hear about. Perhaps you should let other people experience her playstyle (she's still in the mail in my case) and post their own experiences?

Constance is awesome!!! Divine Intervention + Focus Camp = heheheheheheeheheheeheheheeheheheehehehe

[equilshift]

I really think people need to use her the same way you would use a pStryker/eStryker meld. Her feat reminds us of pStryker, for its defensive nature, while her spell list/melee ability (with flank) reminds us more of eStryker, in the sense that she has a little bit of damage buffing, a moderate defensive buff, and one spell just for her.

So how do you play that? I might suggest a fairly strong element of ranged attacks to help out with her feat. Basically, if people do back away from you and don't attack, use your full unit of long gunners to tear through their army. If they do move up and kill a lot of your stuff, then you still shoot them, but you also get souls. (Also, play scenarios at your LGS, just do it.) I would not expect more than 4 or maybe 5 souls from her feat, but that's okay. With even 10 focus, CC, flank and blessed makes Connie pretty dang good melee assassin herself, should the opportunity arise. I also agree with ranked attack, reach troops like murdoched forgeguard or stormguard. I also see the benefit of having a cyclone (or other aoe leaving model/unit) in the army, for a little help shuttling the other army where you need it.

I might proxy this list sometime soon:

Connie
* Gallant
* Cyclone
* Squire

Full Stormguard
Full Forgeguard + Murdoch
Full Long gunners
Rhupert
Jr
+ some 2 point solo

Basically, the long gunners shoot over the heads of the other infantry, and then they crusaders call to hit the other army first, and when you do, you pop feat and put down covering fire on top of your engaged models, or behind the enemy models they are engaged with. Watch them back up into your templates if they so choose.

And before anyone jumps on me for choosing the long gunners, yes, I could just swap them out for ATGM, and use the last 4 points on the B13. I just love me some LGs.

[Cardboard]

Cardboard, have you considered that Constance is simply not for you?

Much in the way that pStryker, regardless of how many people tell me he is not that bad, will always be a horrible warcaster for me.

I've tried strategies that people posted, I've tried lists, I've tried everything and I can't stand him. He's a focus starved, useless-feated waste of a warcaster. Other people disagree and that's fine, I just couldn't win or have fun with him to save my life.

I can see lots of good stuff about Constance, her feat and her spell list. If you don't like her maybe it's time to let her go? Because right now we know you can't stand her and you think she's useless but it's becoming a little repetitive and frankly a little disheartening to hear about. Perhaps you should let other people experience her playstyle (she's still in the mail in my case) and post their own experiences?

If other people want to play her, test lists and try to find something that works, I'd love to hear their experiences. I'm trying desperately to make her work; spent enough money getting an army ready for her that I want to be to worth it. I also like to believe I'm a good enough player to get at least a trickle of red water if not blood from a stone

I'm trying different lists, different tactics, because I want her to be awesome. She's just felt like a bad form of pStryker (who I don't think anyone would disagree with you on a competitive basis is a very mediocre warcaster). Next time I have a game with her I'll make it's own topic to keep track of; don't want to get people so down they don't even proxy her after all.

Honestly, I have learned a lot from these battles, although it's more about how difficult it is to keep Murdoch alive after a charge, especially with Nyss when you have to pop the minifeat the turn before the charge. Any sort of spot removal tends to gib him. Not that big a deal when you're using him on Nyss with a non-factiony 'caster (as you'll already have gotten the amazing minifeat and Assault out of him), but a pretty big deal with factiony 'casters such as eStryker and Blaize.

[sleet01]

Has anyone tried running a Lancer on Constance? I think simply adding it in gives an entirely new angle to play with. First, it lets you stay in the back and keep swapping Banishing Ward around as needed, but on feat turn it opens up possibilities for a spell assassination with her and POW 13 sunbursts. Now, lets look at some theory crafting based on the 2 games I've played with her.

In my most recent game I ran this list:
Constance (+6)
- Gallant (-9)
- Ironclad (-7)
- Lancer (-6)
- Squire (-2)
Junior (-3)
Full Stormguard (-9)
Full SKs (-6)
ATGMs (-6)
- UA (-2)
A&H (-4)
Lanyssa (-2)

The Lancer let me spell-snipe my opponent's Machine Wraith at the bottom of Turn 1 using Sunburst, which was a relief, but he's not a dumb guy so he got his Bane Knights into melee with the Lancer first thing next turn. After that the Lancer was stuck: without Strangewayes to give him Evasive Action I couldn't risk pulling him out of melee with the Bane Knights, and my Sword Knights couldn't kill them off (even with Flank) because they kept making their Tough rolls (thanks, Terminus!). I think he might have been more of a factor in the game if I'd taken Strangewayes instead of Lanyssa; one guaranteed extra focus or EA per turn is probably preferable to a possible free Charge and +2" on one turn. As it was, he helped Constance snuff a one-point solo who probably would have taken him or my IC over, and gave the SKs Flank, but due to the BKs' Tough and Ghostly he didn't really hold a line or contribute to any major damage. Since most players will want to shut your arc node down immediately, I think a Lancer in Constance's army should be run back of the front line to give her more Sunburst and Banishing Ward range. Use it primarily as an arc node and only support the SKs with it in extremis, and only when you can extract it at will (via Evasive Action, Black Penny, AOEs, etc).

Constance is awesome!!! Divine Intervention + Focus Camp = heheheheheheeheheheeheheheeheheheehehehe

Against any faction but Cryx (and especially Terminus) this is true. But again, Divine Intervention + Focus Camp < Dragon's Call + Focus Camp, and Cryx will probably be able to take half your expected souls (or more) from you on the feat turn, so don't bank on this equation working out to anything but '0 + Focus Camp = so-so'.

I really think people need to use her the same way you would use a pStryker/eStryker meld. Her feat reminds us of pStryker, for its defensive nature, while her spell list/melee ability (with flank) reminds us more of eStryker, in the sense that she has a little bit of damage buffing, a moderate defensive buff, and one spell just for her.

So how do you play that? I might suggest a fairly strong element of ranged attacks to help out with her feat. Basically, if people do back away from you and don't attack, use your full unit of long gunners to tear through their army.
...

I like the idea of Long Gunners and a Cyclone with Blaize. I took a Cyclone with her in my first game and it did seem to work well as a flanking deterrent. Add in the LGs' Covering Fire and you can deny a pretty large swathe to most infantry and some cavalry or beasts. To be honest, they may be preferable to the ATGMs in a Blaize army, as the ATGMs can't use their AOE on targets in Melee while Covering Fire can be placed on engaged troops, and Blaize needs her troops to get into melee. I may try my previous list with min LGs + UA instead of ATGMs, a Cyclone in place of the Ironclad and Lanyssa, and min SKs + Strangewayes.

[Dyoria]

You know Dark Fledgling, I was just in a really boring meeting and I kept thinking there is something else to her that I was missing. Maybe it is Sunburst. Ive assassinated with eHaley and Arcane Bolt. Why couldnt I do it with Connie and a frack ton of focus? (Yes haters Im predicting a frack ton of focus between camping and her feat.)

Then I come back to my office and read your post. Instead of a lancer, I think I might bring Thorn in with her. Maybe. Ive been using him with more and more casters beyond Haley and I have really come to enjoy what he brings. With Crusader's Call and a Sunburst Arc, he can get a good bendy 16" charge-threat with his POW 13 spear. That can put a few holes in some casters. (Ive assassinated with him using Kraye, eHaley and eStryker before).

Im going to have to play her a lot. Still waiting to receive her. My money is on infantry spam, but Im thinking maybe an arc node to bend an aoe around will be quite useful. Im not sold on this combined arms approach of melee shooting with Connie (which is weird, because most of my lists by definition of being Cygnar are combined arms, but then again, most Cygnar casters do something for ranged attacks).

[PG_BioRebel]

Has anyone put serious thought into maximizing her flank ability? I mean Mat+2 and an extra d6 on damage rolls with her are nothing to shake a stick at. The only problem really is finding a way to boost either gallant or a precursor knights run, and somehow kick up her own charge distance. I feel like even without a good feat turn, 6 focus (7th from a squire) would be more than enough to put most casters under.

I get the feeling she has 2 play styles. One is an infantry buffer thats great for control point scenarios (get on points or zones turn 1 and feat, forcing your opponent to wait and concede points or kill and give you focus). And the other is an opportunistic assassin.

[sleet01]

I've been taking Gallant with an eye to using Flank, but I can't pull it off. Either there are high-priority targets that need killing by Gallant, or I need to position Constance for maximum feat benefit, and then... well, that's usually just one turn away from death. Maybe with more practice? I mean, the two of them should have a fantastic threat range (especially with Lanyssa, which is why I bring her) but getting them on the same target at the same time is turning out to be harder than expected.

[jr caster]

take harlan for flank?

[sleet01]

That's an... interesting idea. I took Harlan as a focus battery when I ran Gallant with Darius, but he's (mostly) useless in melee and he'd have to get into melee to grant Flank.

[PG_BioRebel]

Gallant or even a rogue precursor would do. All you need is one model to run and engage a warcaster for this to take effect. Maybe consider taking crusader to get constance that extra 2", leaving her with 5 focus on the charge, dealing 4d6 damage on the first attack. The only thing missing from making this a nasty tactic is shes missing something like velocity, though like estryker that would most likely leave her focus starved by the time she reaches the enemy, but with flank it wouldnt matter as much.

[TKaz84]

He probably only needs to survive long enough to run into melee range. Provided Constance is in range and has a decent amount of focus the turn she charges should be the last turn of the game.

[Dark Fledgling]

Since most players will want to shut your arc node down immediately, I think a Lancer in Constance's army should be run back of the front line to give her more Sunburst and Banishing Ward range. Use it primarily as an arc node and only support the SKs with it in extremis, and only when you can extract it at will (via Evasive Action, Black Penny, AOEs, etc).

Did you try dropping a sunburst on some of those banes? RFP gets around tough and sure, you might have had to boost some of your blast damage rolls (roll of 10 should kill do it) but that is atleast one more tool in your box for dealing in such situations. Besides, you can hit the knocked down ones no problem (even engaged) and the flat POW 13 will kill them pretty easy needing 4s.

You are right that Strangewayes is a good choice with her. Giving out free focus is always good, as is repair, evasive action, even his spray but at 35 I think you have more important options for those 2 points (squire, rhupert).

But having done a bit more thought, I've decided to make a small swap in my list. Instead of bringing the 'Blades + UA + Stormclad, I think I might try a full unit of Stormguard and Gallant. Sure Gallant wont hit nearly as hard as a Stormclad, but by bringing the full guard I net 2 additional infantry AND they all have reach, ranked attack, and Set Defense.

You know Dark Fledgling, I was just in a really boring meeting and I kept thinking there is something else to her that I was missing. Maybe it is Sunburst. Ive assassinated with eHaley and Arcane Bolt. Why couldnt I do it with Connie and a frack ton of focus? (Yes haters Im predicting a frack ton of focus between camping and her feat.)

Exactly my point

Instead of a lancer, I think I might bring Thorn in with her. Maybe. Ive been using him with more and more casters beyond Haley and I have really come to enjoy what he brings. With Crusader's Call and a Sunburst Arc, he can get a good bendy 16" charge-threat with his POW 13 spear. That can put a few holes in some casters. (Ive assassinated with him using Kraye, eHaley and eStryker before).

I agree that Thorn is a magical little jack bullet (ever done him with pNemo, acceleration and 5 focus? Its golden!!). But it brings me back to the same reason I didnt grab Strangewayes at 35. The piper, squire, or extra 4 sword knights are just TOO key to the list to drop. I agree that their may be something too it at 50, especially since you can use disengage to further try and protect yourself from losing that arcnode.

Side note, Dropping Magestorm on a lancer/thorn is a great way to protect it from non-reach infantry. You might dink a few points off it (thats why strangewayes has repair right?) but nothing sans a heavy jack will willingly take a POW 12. Its also a cloud effect to give you concealment and block LoS to things behind it. Just a nifty little trick you could use.

So If I where to bump my list up to 50 I think I would add in Runewood, Strangewayes, Thorn, Sword Knight UA, and then possibly Aiyana+Holt w/ Murdoch. The three of them will then benefit from my feat, give me some more magic weapons and Harm to help crack that really tough armor. That can be great if you simply charge your ownI've also found recently that if you ARNT gonna marshal a warjack to your ATGMs, then Aiyana+Holt+B13th make a great combo for the same points and brings just as much (if not more) toolboxy goodness to the table (and its better with murdoch!).

So here is 50 pts:

Constance +6
-Thorn 8
-Gallant 9
-Squire 2
Sword Knights (full)+UA 8
Stormguard (full) 9
Black 13th 4
Aiyana & Holt & Murdoch 6
Runewood 3
Strangewayes 2
Junior 3
Piper 2

-DF

EDIT: Realized, Holt can charge/assault an enemy model, kill it with his gunblades using transference, and then shoot at something 12" away with virtuoso. With CC thats an 11" charge and a pair of 12" hand cannons. Hell, charge your own guy in the back and do the exact same thing but dont worry about needing to kill him to shoot something else. Its like having a mini eCaine with 1" further threat!!

[DrBaltar]

Constance can also walk into the back of engaged percursors and kill everything engaging them with flashing blade without even trying hard (MAT 9 POW 13 weaponmaster ignoring spell buffs?) thanks to ranked attacks.

Just, because i am not sure. You can do melee attacks through units with ranked attack? I thought it was just for shooting.

[sleet01]

Gallant or even a rogue precursor would do. All you need is one model to run and engage a warcaster for this to take effect. Maybe consider taking crusader to get constance that extra 2", leaving her with 5 focus on the charge, dealing 4d6 damage on the first attack. The only thing missing from making this a nasty tactic is shes missing something like velocity, though like estryker that would most likely leave her focus starved by the time she reaches the enemy, but with flank it wouldnt matter as much.

With Lanyssa (well, with Lanyssa *alive*) and CC up, Constance has a 15" threat range. Gallant has a 14" threat range on the same target. Add in Corbeau and Constance can have an 18" threat, but then you're playing RubeGoldbergMachine, as my friend says. But in my experience getting threat *range* isn't the difficulty, it's getting an opening and an opportunity. That probably comes down to practice and experience.

Did you try dropping a sunburst on some of those banes? RFP gets around tough and sure, you might have had to boost some of your blast damage rolls (roll of 10 should kill do it) but that is atleast one more tool in your box for dealing in such situations. Besides, you can hit the knocked down ones no problem (even engaged) and the flat POW 13 will kill them pretty easy needing 4s.

Well, I would have except for two things. A) I moved the Lancer up far enough (in order to ace the Wraith) that the Banes were able to engage the next turn, and their Reach means no engaging-but-not-engaged-so-arcing-is-okay shenanigans. And B), Sunburst's version of RFP is on boxed or destroyed (I don't recall which) while Tough triggers on Disabled, so Tough beats Sunburst.

But having done a bit more thought, I've decided to make a small swap in my list. Instead of bringing the 'Blades + UA + Stormclad, I think I might try a full unit of Stormguard and Gallant. Sure Gallant wont hit nearly as hard as a Stormclad, but by bringing the full guard I net 2 additional infantry AND they all have reach, ranked attack, and Set Defense.

And E-leap, which melts away cheap, low-ARM infantry like lightning through butter. And CMA! (Thanks, admanb!) Either way, I can't recommend the Stormguard highly enough with Constance. Under CC they have an immense threat range: 5+3+2+2 = 12" for melee, and 12+~1+4 = 17" for E-Leaps, and finally 12+10=22" for the Discharge. My leader took out a Brute Thrall, two Mechanithralls, and a Stitch Thrall with his POW 14 AOE at 18" away from his starting point Sunday. So good!

[admanb]

Stormguard still have CMA.

[sleet01]

Just, because i am not sure. You can do melee attacks through units with ranked attack? I thought it was just for shooting.

Yessir. From the FT PDF:

Friendly Faction models can ignore this model when determining LOS.

[Cardboard]

Couple notes on why a lot of these tactics don't work

Sunburst does not ignore tough, as it RFP on boxed; good luck killing banes with a non-stealth ignoring pow7 blast damage!

Issue I've found with Harlan (who I really am liking in some other lists; bought him for Gallant and Blaize, but pCaine's good bros with him), is that you are generally going to have a tough time getting him into melee late game; if they're scared of flank, he dies and Gallant dies. Even with Flank you're not hitting that hard on the bought attacks, so it takes a good deal of Focus to make anything hard dead, leaving you vulnerable. There's also the OoA issue in that if you want to alphastrike something, you often have to CCall, but then Blaize isn't getting Flank from Gallant unless he gives his activation to run etc etc. In general though, it's more often that PKs are a trap with her and Harlan doesn't survive into late game if Flank is a danger. Gonna have to test some more though; might not have given Harlan enough of a chance

[sleet01]

Flashing Blades targets only enemy models. So that, at least, works.

[Cardboard]

Flashing Blades targets only enemy models. So that, at least, works.

Ah, my reading skills are lacking; quite as shame, as I also discovered today that I could no longer do long division by hand. I think I'm getting old

[imweasel]

I wouldn't worry so much about making Harlan a flank threat. It's nice if it's there, it's nice if it affects your opponent's play, but really that's not what he is there for. He is there to be a 2pt stealth solo shooter that makes your opponent pay for putting upkeeps on infantry. Or shooting up some non-stealth def12 arm16 infantry.

As for the stormguard vs cryx, they have always been good vs cryx. They are better with constance due to cc, but then it's coming down to constance being good with them becuase she is the only caster cygnar has with cc. Which, atm, seems to be her biggest claim to fame.

[Cardboard]

I wouldn't worry so much about making Harlan a flank threat. It's nice if it's there, it's nice if it affects your opponent's play, but really that's not what he is there for. He is there to be a 2pt stealth solo shooter that makes your opponent pay for putting upkeeps on infantry. Or shooting up some non-stealth def12 arm16 infantry.

As for the stormguard vs cryx, they have always been good vs cryx. They are better with constance due to cc, but then it's coming down to constance being good with them becuase she is the only caster cygnar has with cc. Which, atm, seems to be her biggest claim to fame.

Thing is, if I'm not bringing him for flank, there's a hell of a lot of other models to spend the points on first (Gorman, Eiryss, Rhupert, B13th, Gunmages, etc). So he's got to be at least threatening with it. Anywho, if I manage to get another game in tonight I'll make a new topic for actual Blaize experiences

[NecroMerlinoid]

I've been taking Gallant with an eye to using Flank, but I can't pull it off. Either there are high-priority targets that need killing by Gallant, or I need to position Constance for maximum feat benefit, and then... well, that's usually just one turn away from death. Maybe with more practice? I mean, the two of them should have a fantastic threat range (especially with Lanyssa, which is why I bring her) but getting them on the same target at the same time is turning out to be harder than expected.

I've been taking Strangeways to mitigate this issue. Generally, if the enemy warnoun is close enough for Blaize to get to them, Gallant is also within a 10 inch run/2 inch reach to engage them. He generates his own "run" focus, and Arlan can always give him evasive if he's in the thick of it. The B13 can help clean mooks off him, too.

[PG_BioRebel]

This is a 35 pt Blaize assassination list I'm working on to try and get the most out of flank. It feels like too many solos ATM.
Blaize
-Gallant
-squire

Runewood
B13th
Strangeways
Versh
Lanyssa
6 precursors
-UA
Rhupert
10 sword knights
-UA

Between Runewoods reform, and ryans mage storm. I shouldnt have a problem with infantry getting in the way. But harder targets will cause issues, though they're usually easily avoided.

[Amarel]

This is a 35 pt Blaize assassination list I'm working on

See, now, my Blaize assassination list is actually ranged and Merc:

Blaize
-Gallant
-Wyshnayller

ATGM + UA + Mule
Pre-Cursors (max) + UA
Ho Courbeau
Taryn

I'm looking forward to giving it a run-out and seeing if it works .