Dealing with heavy armor

[roddo]

So what are the best ways we have to deal with heavy armor? We don't have alot of weapon master, and in faction debuffs are pretty hard to come by. Battle lust, fury and butchers feat all seem to help, and esorscha can help if you can get P+S high enough in the first place. So whats the best way to clear out alot of high arm targets?

[Raktra]

Having the highest P+S weaponry around seems to work for me. We don't need debuffs, we just need to buff ourselves, which we can happily do. I reckon we're good at handling heavy armour.

[Kurb]

Apply axe to face liberally.

[Razzle]

Gorman can help a little, if above suggestion isn't working out :P

[Herudaio]

Actually problem is hitting not damaging in my opinion. Somewhere between Doom Reavers, Great Bears and Jacks you need just to find way to help them hit.

[Seventhprophet]

Honestly, with access to pow 19 weapons, you are usually doing damage to a model of at least exactly what you roll. Usually buying extra attacks from our hard hitting jacks does the trick. If you are running a lot of infantry as your main source of damage instead of a speed bump until you can get our hard hitting models in place, then you should try a new list or tactic next time.

Also, greatbears can open any can you sick them on.

[PG_Pyrodude32]

Juggernaut - Nuff said

[studderingdave]

juggers, plain and simple. after neglecting them for so long i made sure to come back to them and now im stuck. i run one or two in every list. cheap POW 19s really help.

armor shouldnt really be an issue.

[sleet01]

You guys have access to Unearthly Rage, Blood Frenzy, Signs and Portents, a medium-base Weaponmaster 'caster with a P+S 16 magical reach weapon (!), Battle Lust, Juggernaut, and P+S 12 AP weapons. Khador players asking how to beat high ARM is like Cygnar players asking how to hit high DEF.

[ColdYinTiger]

In a faction full of ranged warjacks with melee weapons as powerful or more powerful than many melee jacks melee weapons, I think high armor isn't really the issue a lot of time. In most cases you surpass it in many cases without any issue, other times at most its -1 or 2 to the roll. For me the easiest way to take out high armor is an eryiss shot and three focus on a juggernaught.

[PG_Draxos]

Okay I am genuinly confused. You play Khador and you have trouble... doing damage? I mean if you play cygnar then yeah just bring A&H but we're khador I mean KHADOR. if you hit the thing is dead no matter what. Im just confused

[PG_Pyrodude32]

I am a little curious at what type of lists you use.

Juggernaut tho, he rocks

[comrade]

Depending on the caster you can run a bunch of juggies to pretty good effect; they've got the highest PS I can think of.

[sleet01]

Well, technically Juggies hit ARM 20 at Dice minus one, while the Behemoth is Dice + 2 versus ARM 20, so that's higher damage but not high P+S.

[Razzle]

It would be ARM 10 though so

[Mr Moo]

A lot of people seem to be saying 'Juggernaut', and I totally agree. I occasionally see threads bashing the Juggernaut, but I don't really see why. It's fantastic at what it does. ARM 20, lots of hit boxes, massive weapon, and only 7 points? I include one of these in just about any list I run. I generally use pButcher, and Full Throttle really helps out not only hitting things, but getting that Crit Stationary as well. Not to mention on Butcher's feat turn, he'll demolish things easily with a couple of focus on him (not that he can't wreck things well enough without the feat). Put your Juggernaut up front. Let the opponent attack it. It will probably survive (barring Avatar, or Deathjack or some crap). Then load it with focus, and deliver a few PS 19 axes to face.

Alternately, a more versatile solution is the Kodiak. Sure, PS 16 isn't so hot against huge armor values, but if you can boost it with Unearthly Rage, pButchers feat, or whatever it will do some damage. Plus that chain attack will let you get in those free two-handed throws for extra damage, and to keep the target knocked down (and anything you throw it in to as well). As they say, "When in doubt, throw it out." If you can't crack it, just pitch it out of the way until you bring something over to deal with it.

As for Weapon Masters, we have (in my opinion) some of the best. Demo Corps, Great Bears, and Doom Reavers can all do ungodly amounts of damage on the charge. Hell, even Iron Fangs can dent a heavy warjack (though maybe not Devastator-level heavy). If you're running Butcher, Fury is also great on anything. Butcher himself is also a good choice for smashing things.

You've got plenty of options out there, so no matter what list you're trying to use, you should find something that works for you.

[SmellyTerror]

I always bring something at P&S 18+. For me that's usually a Jugger or a Spriggan. Even if it's all you've got, at least you can tarpit and pray.

P&S 18+ is like pants. No-one goes to a battle without pants.

Then make sure you've got a backup: Bears, Pike with Blood Lust, Doomies, whatever.

THEN build the rest of the list.

[Coffee_twitch]

I thought I read somewhere on these forums saying that Khador has the majority of Weaponmasters?

I also agree with most people on this list, Juggy (never had issues with armour here), great bears, and I've even done some good damage with a manhunter to high armour targets (especially with the charge).

[BarskeMannen]

I thought I read somewhere on these forums saying that Khador has the majority of Weaponmasters?

I'm pretty sure that honor belongs to Menoth. Anything Exemplar gets that little saber tag on their card.

[OldOneEye]

Combined ___________ Attacks. Winter Guard can do them; Iron Fang Pikemen can do them. 4 points for a min. unit of WGI puts a potential P+S 18 on the table with a 14" threat range.

[The Buoyancy of Water]

Widowmakers..? I'd say they're pretty good at damaging even devastators when given enough time. I also find myself falling back to the juggernaut in my Zerkova list, he's just great! Or marauder combo smite on the charge, that can one-shot light jacks and put a serious hole in heavies.

Cheers,
Dave

[roddo]

I've been playing a mostly infantry heavy eSorscha list, my main problem was running into a Terminus horde the other day. Winterguard couldn't kill banes fast enough, and they wrecked my jacks before I could get them to kill terminus. Seems to be a recutting theme whenever i play cryx bane heavy lists, unless the opponent is dumb enough to leave his caster in a spot where I can kill him easily. Heres the list I took, most of my frustration was due to my own errors.
eSorscha
Beast-09
spriggan
wardog
Great Bears
Winterguard deathstar
Max kayazy+UB
kell Bailoch
A+H
orin Midwinter

my opponent had a Terminus brick
terminus
Nightmare
withershadow
Max Bane knights
Max bane thralls +UA
BLT
Madelyn corbeau
Max Mechthralls
1 Brute thrall
Necrosurgeon
siren
Scarlock

I just couldn't shoot the thralls fast enough to keep them down, and tough made things worse. Kayazy went before kell and messed up my minifeat turn, and my jacks got ate by charging bane knights. didn't help that I went second, and messed up my deployment, i should have had the kayazy opposite the thralls, and the winterguard opposite the knights, with the great bears in the middle. Instead they were swapped, and the great bears I put opposite the mechthralls.

[PG_ChainGun]

I must admit I'm surprised by your post. If there's one army configuration Khador is designed to deal with, it's low-DEF, high-ARM models.
1. Don't have a lot of weaponmaster? What? How about Doom Reavers, Demo Corps, Great Bears, Man Hunters and Yuri?
2. Damage boosting spells: Fury, Battle Lust, Unearthly Rage, Signs and Portents, Hand of Fate.
3. Feats: Blood Frenzy, Blood Legacy and Winter's Chill.

I would have understood if you complained about Stealth, high DEF or Incorporeal models, but high ARM? I never considered this to be a problem for the motherland.

[doom_reaver]

I've been playing a mostly infantry heavy eSorscha list, my main problem was running into a Terminus horde the other day. Winterguard couldn't kill banes fast enough, and they wrecked my jacks before I could get them to kill terminus. Seems to be a recutting theme whenever i play cryx bane heavy lists, unless the opponent is dumb enough to leave his caster in a spot where I can kill him easily. Heres the list I took, most of my frustration was due to my own errors.

but mate theres absolutely nothing high armour in that list except Terminus on his feat turn if you give him enough souls. your problem was he put down more numbers than you could deal with. but sure you have already answered your own question as to what you could have done to avoid it. your army was well equipped to deal with that list and almost any other lists you can think of you just made a couple of mistakes thats all its nothing to get bummed about you'll know better for next time and absolutely route him.

[PG_Draxos]

I must admit I'm surprised by your post. If there's one army configuration Khador is designed to deal with, it's low-DEF, high-ARM models.
1. Don't have a lot of weaponmaster? What? How about Doom Reavers, Demo Corps, Great Bears, Man Hunters and Yuri?
2. Damage boosting spells: Fury, Battle Lust, Unearthly Rage, Signs and Portents, Hand of Fate.
3. Feats: Blood Frenzy, Blood Legacy and Winter's Chill.

I would have understood if you complained about Stealth, high DEF or Incorporeal models, but high ARM? I never considered this to be a problem for the motherland.

Dude, that's pretty much what I said, guy.

[SmellyTerror]

Dude! Serious: eSorscha, Kayazy, WGI DS: win. Spriggan for bulldoze, Beast to smash faces in. You should be eating Termy’s brick and spitting out the bones.

I’m not sure what was happening to stop your WGI from killing the Banes “fast enough” – I mean, you can get terrible luck with tough rolls on occasion, but you should be gunning down every model in the spray templates. If your skirmish screen is engaged – well, bugger ‘em. Just grape-shot your own guys down if they’re unfortunate enough to be stuck in melee. Just make sure you’ve got a well spaced screen so they can only run -> engage a small portion of your unit (should be doable with 4-5 guys at most). If something does make a tough roll, there’s nothing stopping you plugging him again. Pop on Shaterstorm and it’s just a matter of how long you have to sit there rolling damage. In other words: pretty much every infantry model in this list within 8” of the WGI should be dead, and probably dead several times over.

Nothing wrong with Knights vs Kayazy, either – as long as they’ve got Iron Flesh. Bane Knights have wussy MAT 6, so they’re never actually going to hit a Kayazy. You can just stand in front of them all day long and all they can do is slobber on you. Even maledicted the Knights will spend more time missing your Kayazy than anything else – and even without a charge or Gang you’re killing them on average rolls all ‘round.

Park your jacks a bit back and wait for the infantry to start trashing stuff – or send ‘em to go rip Tartarus’ arms off. Either jack is hell funny with eSorscha’s bond thanks to Reach – you can pack some fodder (pref high-DEF dudes like… oh, like you have!) into the Reach gap, so if you’ve got a non-reaching enemy they can’t attack you, will be frozen if they stay around to kill the screen, and will take a monster smash if they try to move anywhere.

The only thing I’d add to your list to be brutal against Terminus is an Eiryss – drop Orin or Kell and um… the Dog? Or a Rocketeer (if you have ‘em)? Actually, drop Orin AND Kell, and pick up Gorman too. He’s good against Terminus. And everything else. Yay Gorman.

That way, if Termy comes in first he’ll be Oiled and Disrupted: fail. If he comes behind his screen you’ll gun down his infantry first, THEN oil and disrupt him.

‘Course he’s got plenty of options, not like this is a rock-paper-scissors sorta game. But the list you had is excellent, IMO, to fight Terminus.

[roddo]

You know I felt it was fine before I played, but I rolled horrible, and didn't really use my assets right. stealth on the thralls was annoying, shut down my rockets. Thats why I wish I had set up the WG opposite the knights. With that set up I could have killed most of the knights before they got in range. I played to aggresive with my jacks, and that also cost me.

[SmellyTerror]

Ah yeah, well, in that case: bad game. Happens.

[PG_ChainGun]

Dude, that's pretty much what I said, guy.

I just replied to the OP, didn't bother to comb the whole thread.