New Player #372 (this week)

[Satyrwyld]

Hello Cryx!

Yes, these are many of the same questions every new player asks, but I'm hoping to ask them in a way that will be a bit less painful and repetitive...

My FLGS is holding a competition for the upcoming slow grow rules, and I'm looking at breaking my hiatus by starting Cryx. From what I've seen, Toruk is underrepresented in the local meta (so I have to go elsewhere for answers).

I've played Hordes in the past, and have Circle (Baldur, shadowhorn, and some rocks) where the goal is to shift, leap, and forestwalk past the rank-and-file to assassinate, and I have Legion (eThag and lots of shooting / sprays) where I'm more attrition-y. In Cryx, I'm looking to keep up the sneaky jerk motif.

I presently own the battlebox, a skarlock, and a pistol wraith. I've played enough games that I feel reasonably confident with pDenny, but I'm not 100% sold on any of these models. I am, however, a bit strapped for cash and would like to keep this as cost-effective as possible.

- What sneaky 'casters work well with an all-comers list? Obviously, pDenny is serving me well, but I want to review my options. I like the idea of pSkarre and her feedback, but I'm concerned they'll underperform against Hordes. I'm leery of the more in-your-face casters, as my playstyle usually doesn't match well with them.

- What are PP's conversion rules? I've got a second pDenny that I might convert into an eDenny or warwitch, assuming that such is allowed in these parts.

- Dear sweet mercy I need units. What synergizes well with the 'caster(s) you'd recommend? Obviously satyxis with Skarre, but what else?

- Similarly, what 'jacks? I know I love Megalith and Typhon, but are character jacks worth it?

- And what else am I forgetting to ask?

[PG_Bearded Dragon]

If you want an assassination warcaster type, then Deneghra is still high up there. Asphyxious1 will work well and can make use of many of the same things.

The conversion rules for official events are pretty strict. Although, talk to the person running the league and you should be able to convert your spare Deneghra to a warwitch siren for that.

I like Deathjack a lot and Nightmare is really popular with some of our local players. I have not played the other two yet. However, if you are wanting to keep costs down, I think that you would be better served snagging some units or solos first.

For units, mechanithralls are dirt cheap (point wise) and can do well with many warcasters (Deneghra's Crippling Grasp and Skarre's Dark Guidance helps them hit, Asphyxius Scything touch and Parasite lets them hit HARD, etc). The Necrosurgeon really ups their survivability as well. Bane thralls are also very good, though quite $$ as they are much large models with more pieces.

Satyxis Raiders are good without Skarre as they are fast and have two attacks (one with Reach).

Those are your three best bets for standard foot soldiers. Bloodgorgers are nice too, but medium based metal models don't come cheap.

If you are strapped for cash, and already have the battlebox and a skarlock, here's my suggested Deneghra list for 35 points:

Deneghra
2 Deathripper
Defiler
2 Nightwretch
Skarlock thrall
Slayer

10 Mechanithralls
2 Pistol Wraith
Necrotech and Scrapthrall
2 Warwitch Siren

That's a Tier 3 list and also nets you +1 to your start roll and the Defiler comes for free.

[Satyrwyld]

100 views in 24 hours and only one person has an opinion? Here I thought this was the internet... Bearded Dragon - how would you go about using this force? It looks like the McThralls are screening fodder to get the heavy hitters up, but does a single unit have the staying power to do this in a 35 point game? I'm inexperienced with sacrificial troops in this game, but 10 models look like they'll get wiped out by any decent ranged unit.

[Syfer22]

Generally speaking, in Cryx you can do both -- Attrition, and sneaky tricks. Deneghra is certainly a good all-comers warcaster, with one of the more powerful feats in the game along with an amazing spell list.

The list posted above isn't bad for newcomers; the Mechanithralls are there as both a screen/fodder and as a beatstick. If they're attacking, say, a warbeast affected by Crippling Grasp, then they are effectively MAT 7 P+S 17 (on combo strike) -- That will wreck almost anyone's day. Under feat and Crippling Grasp, they're effectively MAT 9 P+S 19. Each. And this is just a fodder unit.

The thing about Deneghra is that she makes just about anything you want to use good, by making anything the enemy wants to field bad. Their loss is your gain. Of course, if you want, you can go straight assassination too -- Run up a chicken to the enemy warcaster (about 3-4" away), pop feat, Scourge the enemy warcaster to knock him down, and Parasite him. Then have your Pistol Wraiths shoot him while he's down. More often than not they'll hit (unless they roll the dreaded snake eyes), and under Parasite and the feat, they have 2 shots at effective P+S 17 against the afflicted target. If you gained any souls to boost damage, all the better.

You can assassinate a lot of things this way, or you can even play the attrition game by neutering the enemy army for 2 rounds -- Yours and his, allowing you to get a nice hit in, keep his counterattack from doing much which then gives you another chance to do pretty much whatever you want with the guy. A bunch of effective magic 9 POW 12 sprays shooting through the enemy army will wipe out a good chunk of their infantry -- And Corrode any that manage to survive.

And yes, 10 models do look like they'll get wiped out by any decent ranged units. Mechanithralls aren't particularly hard to take out, but with the Necrosurgeon, you're bringing back 3 thralls a turn most likely. Me, I think Mechanithralls should be run in at least 2 units of 10, or run in 1 unit of 10 as long as you have other infantry to do the deed you need infantry to do. But it's personal playstyle.

[juckto]

- Dear sweet mercy I need units.

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...=1#post1024960

[PG_Bearded Dragon]

You have to play the list a bit more crafty than others. Don't send all the arc nodes out at once, you need to send them in waves because they crumple fast. But, if you get one up and get three Venoms off on a long gunner unit, that's worth it.

What you want to do in the list is find a time when you can get an arc node within 4" of the enemy caster. Get siren to put focus on said arcnode to run it. After arcnode in position, use feat and cast scourge (if the model can be knocked down). Have the skarlock cast ghost walk on the arc node if it needs to get past freestrikes or rough terrain to get there. Since you are within 4", you will automatically clip the target even if you do not directly hit. Then cast parasite and let the pistol wraiths/nightwretches shoot target to death.

As mentioned, Deneghra shines by making the other players stuff suck. She doesn't tend to do much direct damage besides venom, but she really allows her army to do stuff by making the enemy suck.

Watch out for things that ignore stealth as she tends to have 0 focus on her.

The tactic for enemy warcaster can be applied to other things as well. So, if there is some big Khador heavy coming towards you, instead of scourge, either put parasite or crippling grasp on it and allocate focus on nightwretches to boost damage.

Always keep in mind that you will get +2 to your attack roll if the arc node is in the targets back arc.

[max2323]

Even though people know it is coming, you can get a lot of sneak attacks in with pAsphyxious. He has a lot of threat saturation. Have bone chickens flanking (these are scary because of his spells) and move up buffing your armies hitting power to silly levels. pAsphyxious himself can handle just about anything with his stick and teleport.

I should also mention, he was my first Cryx caster. Due to his spell and personal melee power, as well as a very useful feat, I feel he makes a very flexible and forgiving caster for Cryx, and quite, quite powerful.

[gcflash]

You really can't go far wrong with pSkarre. While her method is fairly straight forward in MKII no one can really deal with every model hitting on 3D6 and +5STR +5ARM on feat turn, it's really all about picking the best models to deal out the pain on that turn. So while pSkarre is not going to strictly fit your sneakyness quota she will smash your opponent to tiny, tiny, tiny little pieces! eSkarre is however far more sneaky than pSkarre, but thats a whole different story

[PG_Bearded Dragon]

He wanted to keep costs down, so I did not mention Skarre since the only model he has that I typically run with her is the skarlock.

[gcflash]

Satyrwyld mentioned pSkarre so I was merely commenting on their preference At the end of the day they are only starting out so buying more models is a given at that point, what models is a different matter entirely.

p.s. McThralls anyone? Cheap on points cheap on price

Cheers

[Aggy]

I recommend you go with pGoreshade with at minimum 1 full unit of bane thralls +UA and BLT. You will need about 16 to 21 bane thralls depending on how you run them. Two boxes of the new sculpt bane thralls will cost you about $170. I know it is alot of money, but alas, the payout on the playing field is tremendous. I would also get a Leviathan and a Harrower as well as a couple slayers, as far as killing power vs jacks/warbeasts you should also get a Seether. You already have all the arc nodes you will need so you do not have to worry about that. When you get to 50 points you will want to field Mechanithralls and a necrosurgeon. They run in the first wave screening the bane thralls, the bane thralls are in the second wave screening your jacks and your caster, then your jacks are there to clean up. Just my .02 cents.

[Satyrwyld]

Okay, so after listening, cross-checking with the forum threads for new players and with Battle College, I have a rough idea of what I'mn looking to do. At 35 points:

pDenny
2 Nightwretch
Slayer
Skarlock

10 Mechanithralls
Necrosurgeon
10 Mechanithralls
Necrosurgeon
Pistol Wraith
Warwitch Siren
Withershadow Combine

Wave 1- The McThralls and support surgeons go tie up enemy infantry and/or less pleasant 'jacks.
Wave 2- My Skarlock, Siren and 'jacks move up, avoiding trample range.
Wave 3- Denny

Special: Withershadow sticks with Denny to ward off 'jack assassins. Given the opportunity, they can join Wave 2 to gang up on a tarpit-bound or otherwise weakened warjack to pump out a free seether. Less ideally, they can pump out a battlebox bonejack (I know autonomous means they won't be Arc Node-ing, but at least the siren can give them focus).

Thoughts?

[gcflash]

Your list will serve you well, but you will no doubt have some bad match ups, such as armies with lots of template weapons and or gun lines. I have used something similar several times and had great fun, even just at my opponents face when the models keep pouring out of the case

As you have not described it in your post, my first question to you would be what are your intended win conditions with this list? And secondly outside of Crippling Grasp and her feat how will you deal with high DEF (around the 17 mark) models as your main fighting force has a very low MAT, while the WSC and Slayer can't be everywhere. Or even if you came up against pButcher who can end up with both his DEF and ARM at silly levels.

Cheers

[Syfer22]

And secondly outside of Crippling Grasp and her feat how will you deal with high DEF (around the 17 mark) models as your main fighting force has a very low MAT, while the WSC and Slayer can't be everywhere.

pDenny has Scourge.

[gcflash]

Yes, I know that and you know that, but its certainly not something you can throw about every turn, on every high DEF model your enemy has or that you can always rely on working due to so many no knock down things kicking around these days. Plus I was hoping that Satyrwyld might get a chance to think about their list and consider what options they have available.

After all we could wax lyrical all day about a list and models but its more useful for Satyrwyld to study their own list and work out what issues its going to face, then work on strategies or alternatives. Satyrwyld has shown they are capable of studying the various resources on the web to work things out, so I would rather pose questions about their list than tell them how to do everything my way. And then answer any questions that may remain.

Cheers

[Satyrwyld]

Honestly, I'm not sure how I'd handle it beyond Crippling Crasp. That said, I'm not really sure I see anything in Bearded Dragon's list that makes it an improvement at dealing with such things. Is Def 17+ so common that I'd need 2+ ways of dealing with it that aren't my caster?

[gcflash]

Its not that DEF 17 is that common, more that high DEF is going to be an issue for your force. This is mainly down to having 2 units of McThralls and that Deneghra only has so much focus to throw around in one turn. So as far as dealing with any situation goes you should always have back up plans.

My first suggestion is replacing one of the McThrall units with a unit of Bile Thralls, they can deal with high DEF easily, as well as models that cannot be targeted, and are pure evil especially when combined with Deneghra's feat and spells (180 degree, auto hitting, through other models, 6.5" radius of effective POW 12-17 really hurts your opponents day). You can then either keep the other Necrosurgeon or swap it out for another support/killy solo or upgrade something else in force?

Anyway the more you think about how you deal with less than optimal match ups the better you will do on the table.

Cheers

[Syfer22]

Yes, I know that and you know that, but its certainly not something you can throw about every turn, on every high DEF model your enemy has or that you can always rely on working due to so many no knock down things kicking around these days.

Who said you had to throw it every turn on every high DEF model your opponent has? You asked how he would deal with high DEF models, that's a way to do it.

It's not about throwing it at every high DEF model that comes her way. It's about throwing it at the high DEF models that MATTER.

[gcflash]

Whoa there Syfer.

Reading what you and I have said we agree with each other so what's the issue? I was merely developing your point for the benefit of Satywyld, I'm sorry if you took the wrong tone from my reply.

I merely think that it is important to point out, to someone who I amuse is a new player (due to the question asked and number of posts), issues they will come up against with their chosen list and point them in the right direction towards minimising poor match ups without telling them how I would build the list (unless they ask). A problem, I think, that is all too common, after all if they want a web list there is a list discussion sub forum to root through if all you want to do is copy what someone else does.

No hard feelings.

Cheers

Flash

[Syfer22]

Whoa there Syfer.

Reading what you and I have said we agree with each other so what's the issue? I was merely developing your point for the benefit of Satywyld, I'm sorry if you took the wrong tone from my reply.

I merely think that it is important to point out, to someone who I amuse is a new player (due to the question asked and number of posts), issues they will come up against with their chosen list and point them in the right direction towards minimising poor match ups without telling them how I would build the list (unless they ask). A problem, I think, that is all too common, after all if they want a web list there is a list discussion sub forum to root through if all you want to do is copy what someone else does.

No hard feelings.

Cheers

Flash

I think we're both taking each other the same way -- I'm not being as aggressive as I sound; I'm just pointing out a couple things. My fault, punctuation and capitalization for emphasis can work against me.

It IS true that Scourge is an expensive spell, and it is also true that the WSC and the Slayer can't be everywhere -- But prioritizing threats can help deal with high DEF models

If all else fails, try Scrap Thralls. Cheap fodder that can do some real work on high DEF models whether they hit or miss.

[gcflash]

Agreed also