MkII Hordes Rules

[mjchetcuti]

Any idea when will PP release the final version of HORDES MkII cards and general rules online?

[Rynth]

Any idea when will PP release the final version of HORDES MkII cards and general rules online?

Maybe next week? That would give Temple Con goers a week w/ Hordes rules before the con.

[dboeren]

Very high on the list of things I do not want to see happen is Hordes not getting the final tuning it needs because of an artificial desire to have them "done" in time for Templecon. Hopefully if they DO come out with stats they will only be an interim release and not the final one.

[Mnkylord]

Very high on the list of things I do not want to see happen is Hordes not getting the final tuning it needs because of an artificial desire to have them "done" in time for Templecon. Hopefully if they DO come out with stats they will only be an interim release and not the final one.

Honestly, I think it would be silly NOT to release an updated "final" pdf before Tournament/TempleCon; Then OO can use the feedback from these events to fine tune the final product. In fact, I would almost demand it.

[dboeren]

Updated pdf = good
FINAL pdf = bad

Yes, using the updated pdf to collect more feedback to better fine tune the final version would be a very very good thing.

[Rynth]

IIRC, Soles or DC said that the post-field test update would not be the last Hordes update before Primal mk2.

[alexnjessi]

IIRC, Soles or DC said that the post-field test update would not be the last Hordes update before Primal mk2.

This statement was made before the FT got extended by a whole month though. I'm in the same boat as Dboeren. I want an update, not a finished work.

[tensteam]

This statement was made before the FT got extended by a whole month though. I'm in the same boat as Dboeren. I want an update, not a finished work.

Actually it wasn't.

This is the latest quote from MrSoles I'm aware of and it was way after the field test was extended:

To be perfectly clear, what I said was that we will be providing HORDES players with a rules PDF following the end of the Field Test. Likely there will be a subsequent update as the rules continue to be finalized. I would expect the first post-Field Test rules doc to come by the end of January. A more final version will come later.

[Mnkylord]

Updated pdf = good
FINAL pdf = bad

Yes, using the updated pdf to collect more feedback to better fine tune the final version would be a very very good thing.

Well, I think there's no such thing as a "final" PDF. The "final" Warmachine PDF certainly wasn't, because it's always PP's prerogative to make changes to their product if they see fit. And, as we've seen, there were changes made to a few models between the time the final PDF was released and Prime MkII went to print. "Final", you see, is a bit of a misnomer. Instead, I think we should use the world "finalish".

[Darque]

I'm not going to hold my breath as I kinda like where we are right now. Apart from some minor tweaks I really dont think we need much in the way of attention.

[dboeren]

Well, I think there's no such thing as a "final" PDF. The "final" Warmachine PDF certainly wasn't, because it's always PP's prerogative to make changes to their product if they see fit. And, as we've seen, there were changes made to a few models between the time the final PDF was released and Prime MkII went to print. "Final", you see, is a bit of a misnomer. Instead, I think we should use the world "finalish".

OK with me. I really only have two criteria I'm interested in:

1. Don't make it final until it's ready to be final
2. Don't call it "final" if it isn't.

[Scalpel]

Bahh the wait is killing me .... they must be out by tomorrow at the latest to give the templecon guys time to at least to read it all.

It's probably going to be tomorrow night, and I'll be playing Star Trek Online ....... grrrrr gahhh.

[Thunder_God]

BTW, expectations are one thing, dead-set locked promise another.
We can always end up with the file next weekend. It'd be sad, but it's possible.

[Waaargh]

Where I sit it's Thursday the 28. of January and the time is now 23:15...

If (when!) PP release the Hordes mkII document this Friday, when can I expect to have it in my shaking hands? There should be an 8 hour, or so, time difference between us.

[alexnjessi]

Actually it wasn't.

This is the latest quote from MrSoles I'm aware of and it was way after the field test was extended:

I stand corrected.

[Malarowski]

Bahh the wait is killing me .... they must be out by tomorrow at the latest to give the templecon guys time to at least to read it all.

It's probably going to be tomorrow night, and I'll be playing Star Trek Online ....... grrrrr gahhh.

Heh actually next Thursday would work too. Reading the rules takes maybe 20 minutes. Hope they'll be out tomorrow though. I'd like to see what I should take.

[Sevwall]

If they aren't out tommorrow, Templecon won't use the update, and I will be furious.

[PG_Hacksaw76]

If they aren't out tommorrow, Templecon won't use the update, and I will be furious.

You are correct sir, we will lock the rules for TempleCon at midnight tonight to allow players a full weekend to finalize lists and get painting done.

[Malarowski]

Uh oh. Hurry up PP! ;(

[Razhem]

THEY ARE UP!

From what I've seen. Mordikaar lost lamentation, Morghoul is better at harrasing, Emorghoul is better at going for the kill but worse for harrasing, Karn is a frigging weapon master, extoller is as best as it can get it seems, Zaal is still very confused, EMakeda is a monster, Rhinodon finally has a niche, bronzeback is the big daddy of beatdown, gldaiator has lost chain attack (but is still awesome), Xerxis got even better with chain smite.

[TheBlueBaron]

Looks like molik Karn is a p+s13 weaponmaster now with reach

[SoulReclaimer]

MORGIE gets 7BEAST PTS OMG
And the Bronzeback at 33 dmg pts WOAH

[Mutton]

THEY ARE UP!

From what I've seen. Mordikaar lost lamentation, Morghoul is better at harrasing, Emorghoul is better at going for the kill but worse for harrasing, Karn is a frigging weapon master, extoller is as best as it can get it seems, Zaal is still very confused, EMakeda is a monster, Rhinodon finally has a niche, bronzeback is the big daddy of beatdown, gldaiator has lost chain attack (but is still awesome), Xerxis got even better with chain smite.

I like the Titan and Rhinodon changes; eMorg just confuses me. He gained 2" of threat, which is nice, but he lost any way to ignore Focus. Go Xerxis also.

[Razhem]

I like the Titan and Rhinodon changes; eMorg just confuses me. He gained 2" of threat, which is nice, but he lost any way to ignore Focus. Go Xerxis also.

Well, Morghoul at least now has a spell to cast (ghost walk), but his offnesive spell is pretty meh and risky. The rules of his sword are very interesting though, if by some unholy reason the enemy clusters near him or he gets a chance at a cluster of troops, he can flashing blade and give himself a boon of fury. At the very least I now see a real reason to have flashing blade on his list.

[mutantias]

I totally get the change to molik karns damage output, he's a small dude not much larger then a regular cyclops but he sure knows how to wield those falchions.

The funny thing is he's str 8 now, other heavies with fists could throw him around like a ragdoll :-P

[rvrchamp]

EMakena changed a bunch... she got engine of destruction, lost fox hole, and her feat is totally different. Hello boosted attacks, no free strikes, and no KD!

[PG_apollosun]

eMakeda's Leash took a hit and the Bronzeback lost Berserk/Amuck. That's going to make a lot of my opponents breath a big sigh of relief.

[Naahz]

I can understand not having both berserk and amuck, but I find both titans less interesting now as the gladiator lost the chain attack that HE INTRODUCED TO THE GAME. dissappointing. Also, I thought of anything bronzeback should get counter slam not counter charge....

[Yertle4]

Hey, Prescience costs 1. I may now cast it.

[Zyrael]

I want to say formally: That I'm very happy for Skorne players. I think your faction got the improvements and balancing it deserved, glad y'all didn't give up.

Now excuse me as I destroy more Circle models.

[PG_apollosun]

Back in Primal/Evolution days one of my biggest beefs with my herd lists were facing gunmages and Caine, you could never advance into melee fast enough...just kept getting pushed back. Hyper-Aggression is quite interesting for this. Though I'm sure there's going to be an instance where I accidently run him out of control range.

He's not going to go on chain's where he can wipe out a dozen models but it seems like Molik and BB are now really solid at getting where they need to be during their activations.

[PG_lord tyrant watt]

EMorghoul lost Vanish? No more hit and run.

I guess with Death Rite, your supposed to hit and transfer.

[Earthcrosser599]

eMorghoul's loss of Arcane Assassin baffles me. How does he fight Warcasters? Even a putz like pKreoss is more or less safe from eMorghoul if he camps his focus.

[Cronix]

Love the new Kovaas .

[gaminguy]

Love the new Kovaas .

Yeah, pretty nice. Too bad it won't ever hit the table until Zaal needs to transfer, the AG is still too worthless to bother killing.

(Did you notice the bit about "non-character" AGs on Zaal? Time for rampant speculation! I'm betting the character AG will make the regular ones worth using, like Vilmon did with the Paladins of the Wall.)

Apparently they thought PMakeda wasn't top shelf already, she gained combo-strike and riposte. Blood quenched is pretty useless most of the time, but at least you can guarantee she'll get one solid strike now. EMakeda lost her combo strike, but Engine of Destruction more than makes up for it.

Hexi getting rapport is nice too. We have two solid Mat 7 melee beasts already, but the Rhino dropped to Mat 5 and neither the Glad not the Cannoneer are complaining. (Edit: and he does have a better rat to go with it now. )

I like Xerxis' Smite switching to a combo-strike. Standing Slams at P+S 20 now!

[Mnkylord]

eMorghoul's loss of Arcane Assassin baffles me. How does he fight Warcasters? Even a putz like pKreoss is more or less safe from eMorghoul if he camps his focus.

Yup. And if Morghoul actually uses his feat, what exactly is a Warcaster going to do OTHER than camp his or her focus?

In essence, using his feat cripples his ability to kill an enemy warcaster. This was precisely why Arcane Assassin was brilliant on him... and why he's a pud without it.

[mjchetcuti]

Yup. And if Morghoul actually uses his feat, what exactly is a Warcaster going to do OTHER than camp his or her focus?

In essence, using his feat cripples his ability to kill an enemy warcaster. This was precisely why Arcane Assassin was brilliant on him... and why he's a pud without it.

well i wouldn't complain if he had kept Arcane assassin.. but hey... Skorne players were saying it was useless for whatever reason i cant even begin to fathom... but anyway... P+S 12 weapon master isn't that bad you know... on a boost or charges you'll be rolling 4d6, not to mention the additional fury you can gather before the charge thanks to Flashing Blade.

Also, i would pop the feat the same turn i intend to make the assassination attempt, as it would be pretty useless the following turn. So hopefully the caster would have already spent most of the focus before he's stabbed in the neck by THE ASSASSIN (TM) now available with an extra 2" of threat range!!

[Thunder_God]

He's talking pMorghoul, the one with "Spell makes you keep Focus."

Arcane Assassin wasn't enough for pMorghoul, not enough. It made it a possibility, with some above average rolls, but not on average rolls for most casters, not on his own.
eMorghoul always needed to keep it.

Also, Garryth is so much a better assassin it's not even funny.

[mjchetcuti]

Why do you need arcane assassin on pMorghoul when you still deal 1 auto damage? its not like a P+S 9 weapon would do anything more against a caster... in my opinion at least.

Garryth... better assassin? I donno, sure he has ranged attacks, and 2 initial attacks... but he's RAT 6 and MAT 7.. Morghoul is 1 MAT higher and one P+S higher... i think the only assassin that is better than eMorghould would be Caine (both versions) I'd personally rate Garryth on the same level as eMorghoul.

[Yertle4]

eMorghoul's loss of Arcane Assassin baffles me. How does he fight Warcasters? Even a putz like pKreoss is more or less safe from eMorghoul if he camps his focus.

I would be delighted if pKreoss camped all his focus, because then I can actually play the game.