Dear Privateer Press, from the fans.

[CaptMateyo]

Hello my name is Mate, I was recently introduced to monsterpocalypse through team covenant at a recent convention. I started off with just a rakadon, couple of carnidons and an ape here or there. a few months later and, Ive spent HUNDREDS of dollars on monsterpocalypse and, I'd like to think im actually getting good at the game too!

Now, I started this post for all of us who play, have played, or are interested in Monsterpocalypse. There's a few things I think we all want to discuss.

The game is insanely good. the models are very attractive, the gameplay is vastly diverse from, one faction, one monster to the next, the Mega's as prizes are great! anywhere ive seen this game played or demo's there's an instant reaction from people, a spark in their eyes as they see the different monsters, the units, the "city" theres a huge joy when they land that first power attack or destroy their first building.
Monsterpocalypse has alot going for it and, the potential to become a hugely successful game! Now all that being said I think there are a few things that need mentioning.

The game suffered from a pretty bad "collectible format" there just was no way to ideally collect a certain faction or make a strong force with the options you were given, go look up some unboxing videos on youtube, it was terrible, a gtank here, a spitter there, a carnidon, maybe a katana and, wait what was that retail price again? ok so maybe not the best way to introduce a game and, in fact it harshly hurt the games credibility. New players could not easily get into it because of the rise "starters" veteran players couldn't even find a decent matchup because, frankly people just weren't ready to buy in to the daunting world of monsterpocalypse. as a result distributors wanted nothing more than to cut their losses and, wash their hands of it.

So DC and, our boys try to "Reinvent" the game with the new 2 player starters which I saw to be hugely successful! these things were selling out like crazy everywhere you went! Still a bit of "collectible" here with random factions you got but, overall it was a good deal at least you got matching units to your monster right? They follow it up with the DMZ also very popular and, selling out with the existing community but, wait, thats just it. You see its the belief of many that dc and the guys are holding off with the line because it hasnt sold very well and, maybe still isnt selling so well, so will we ever see our series 6? will we ever enjoy the popularity that Warmachine/ Hordes enjoys? Probably not, unless our friends at privateer stop and, listen to their existing customers.

Lets look at why monpoc is suffering in the state its in and, how we can remedy these issues to establish a healthy player/customer base.

Some Reasons why Monpoc is hurting
* distributors got burned on it once, they ever hear the name and, they're done with the idea.
* PP has in my opinion not done enough to secure a new player base! (starting to see why the line isnt selling so well?)
* PP has not had any real "new" releases to seriously anchor the vets and, keep them around.
* many feel pp is holding off on anything new hoping the movie will save the line (this hurts the veterans when they havent seen a real new release in how long?)

Some Things PP has done right:
*Introduced two player starters and, DMZ's
*Kept the Prize support going
*Worked out a dreamworks deal which absolutely will help sales

Some Things PP could improve on:
* you've roped in a few new players keep them in!
this means pp really needs to establish a broader player base. People go to cons see the demo buy the game, go home and, have no one to play it with! PP should work harder to reestablish burned bridges with their distributors, give them incentives to demo the game more and, "maybe" give them a bit of demo/ free product so distributors wont feel like they're wasting money and, can see the products sell themselves.
* keep the vets around!
I think the tournament/organized play scene is really whats suffering right now, you "have" to spend hundreds of dollars in travel to attend a con just to play one organized game of monpoc, doesn't that sound a little ridiculous?

another point that needs brought up is
* start a new release! most people don't want to buy into a game they feel is dying, a new set of figures will help vets and, new players feel comfortable that this is a healthy game to get into and, will stick around.

* market market market!
how many people have even heard of monsterpocalypse? ever seen a commercial? or how many adds have you actually seen? heck have you even seen it advertised at your local store? how can people play if theyve never heard of it?

ok so to recap

*Fix distributor relations!
*Advertise/ Demo more, get FLGS's involved!
*Breathe New life into the organized events! Award players and, distributors for demoing/ playing!
*Release a new set! your vets need to see this is a game worth sticking around for!
* push push push to market this thing! its an amazing game, people just have to see it!

So here's what I have to say to you PP,
From all the fans of Monsterpocalypse, We love the game but, you guys need to hear your customers and, give them what they want! Work harder to establish new players, fix your relationships with distributors, start making an effort towards organized play here at home, keep your existing customers around and, release series 6 already! There are millions of people out there just waiting to discover the world of monsterpocalypse and, enjoy it! a fun, easily accessible game for all ages! I've seen both young AND old playing the game and, buying starters. Look you're trying to market the game in a fresh way, so do it right! Show people this "fresh new game" and, they will support it! Put some real effort into the line and, I can promise you you'll enjoy some real profit from it!

I support you guys with all of my heart and, I am extremely passionate about seeing monsterpocalypse become a huge success and, I know it has more than enough potential to be! If you guys need any help and, are offering a job to someone to really help push this product then feel free to send me a message- your loyal fan, Mate

[Fich]

while most of what you say may be valid (i am not agreeing or disagreeing) you cant speak forall fans - i know some that prefred the collectable format (as an example that opinions can differ between fans)

and why do u say it isnt selling? the list from a mag i saw ranked it in the top 10 selling mini games for the last 2 quarters - which is impressive since they havent issued new figs in quite a long time

please be patient because as you said it is a great game and things will work themselves out

[CaptMateyo]

Well I'm not saying that nobody enjoyed the collectible format, just that the non collectible was a very good move, it did break the barrier for alot of people. As for sales, I'll agree that the numbers probably do look better than what they were at but, if PP wants to establish monsterpocalypse as a strong profitable game even as popular as WM/H then they really do need to listen to their consumers. I believe that if we all lend our voices and, opinions to PP that the communication will go alot farther towards things working themselves out, I appreciate your opinion and, post!

[Mod_Donaldbain]

*Demo more, get FLGS's involved!
*Breathe New life into the organized events! Award players and, distributors for demoing/ playing!
*Release a new set! your vets need to see this is a game worth sticking around for!

Good post, but a few points:

1)That involves local players more than Privateer.
2)There is new life in OP. Re-releasing old, hard to get Megas and the (eventual) tournaments with Quantum figures.
3)Also in the works but held up by "unknown forces". Possibly the movie deal, possibly the factory, possibly alien brain leeches. Nothing is know for sure and all speculation has been speculated to death.

[CaptMateyo]

Thanks Mr Bain I appreciate your input!
As for your first point I absolutely agree! I do feel Like PP could do something to get more players involved though! Im sure there are some realistic options that havent been explored! Im trying my hardest to do my own part and, so I've started my application to be a press ganger and, set up demo's with a few of my local stores!

I think re-releasing the old megas as prize kits was a great move! I cant wait ot be a part of the press ganger team and distribute those some more! hopefully I can get my hands on a Tyrannix and Pteradactix soon!

as for series 6 Im not the bosses idk when it will come out I think the majority of most players are just hoping it WILL come out!

[olesideburns]

I still think a revamped or simplified rules format could help out. I've demo'd the game plenty of times but it's easy for non-miniature players to get quickly overwhelmed by the number of Icon's and Rules.

[PG_TotalGee]

Both me and a friend got the 2 player starter set a little less than a year ago, and I fell in love with the system.

we bought some unit boosters, which deterred us as it felt like a waste of cash. So we carried on just playing the 2 player starter set.

Now that DMZ is here, I am so excited. I have roped in another 4 players and we are starting a MonPoc community. I can't wait to run some events and have some good times.

My DMZ arrived in the post today...

Why is it so difficult to get hold of the products, where do you guys get the stuff? I found some shady site, in order to get DMZ but it's not enough to grow the community. It would be good if some of the bigger internet sites could get some stock of this game. Unless I am missing something.

This game is awesome, I want it to grow at my local gaming club.

[CaptMateyo]

Teamcovenant.com These guys live in the same state as me and, I've had the pleasure of meeting and purchasing from them in person, over the phone and, online! they always ship exactly what you order and, for the exact amount posted, they are very upstanding trustworthy guys with a real passion for the game! check out their store!

[Mandor]

Interesting post. Some thoughts…

Why do you think there are problems with distributors? They distributed the 2 player starters and are still distributing DMZ. Sure, it’s very unlikely they are keeping anywhere near the same amount of stock they did when Monpoc was a CMG, but they are distributing.

Distributors don’t demo games to players. Retailors and individuals (“alpha gamers”) do. With Monpoc having been around 3 years retailors are unlikely to put effort into it when other games will have a better return for their time. That leaves demoing and organizing Monpoc gatherings to individuals. Fortunately, PP does support these people as their prize kits include a Mega for the person running the event.

Marketing was fine. PP will never do a commercial (too expensive - if any CMG could have made a commercial work it would have been SWM on Cartoon Network during the Clone Wars cartoon), but they did advertise in GTM and other game trades some store owners pay attention to. The pre-release at Gen Con 2008 was one of the top games talked about during and after the con. BoardGameGeek had plenty of talk about the game and I saw it on various miniatures sites as well. So there was plenty of word of mouth advertising.

There’s no reason to expect PP to release a new set anytime soon. Series 6 wasn’t viable due to slow sales of series 4 & 5. As of Gen Con, PP didn’t have enough sales data on DMZ to on when/if the “DMZ” version of series 4 & 5, which would certainly precede a series 6 release. It would be a huge gamble to release series 6 before summer 2012 - and still a big gamble to release it before 2013.

While I believe Monpoc in the non-collectible format as PP is doing now is best for players and creating a large player base, I’m unsure if sales would have been strong enough to make it to series 6. I’m not sure it would have made it to series 4 even. There has not yet been a non-collectible PPM that has been successful and I don’t see Monpoc being the first. I truly believe faction boxes is the best and most natural way to buy this game and get others involved, but I also know that I and others would have purchased only some of the factions rather than case buying and getting all the factions. Partly because faction boxes would have made collecting everything more expensive then case buying and partly because there are some factions I’m just not attracted to and would be very easy to resist buying. So while I believe non-collectible would have resulted in a greater number of players, I also believe sales would have been equal or less as the average player would have bought less product.

While the two player starter and DMZ are good deals, remember that these are reprints. The costs of development have already been paid for. Expect the MSRP of a new product to be higher.

I could be wrong, but I don’t think there is ever a situation where a comma should follow the word “and”.

[Mandor]

and why do u say it isnt selling? the list from a mag i saw ranked it in the top 10 selling mini games for the last 2 quarters - which is impressive since they havent issued new figs in quite a long time

While it's nice to see Monpoc in the top 10, I'm not sure how much that really means. It seems like they made the list because other games have ended. Looking at the list now, I'm hard pressed to guess what collectible games would rank 11-20. What other collectible games are still releasing sets and have a decent following?

Why is it so difficult to get hold of the products, where do you guys get the stuff? I found some shady site, in order to get DMZ but it's not enough to grow the community. It would be good if some of the bigger internet sites could get some stock of this game. Unless I am missing something.

The major online retailers still have plenty series 1 thru 5 in stock or they super discounted in order to get rid of what they had. Either way, it's reasonable they would be reluctant to stock reprints.

As a side note, MiniatureMarket seems to have bought PP's stock, as evidenced by the 245 Mega Packs they are selling plus their huge numbers of other Monpoc products.

[DanTrollBlitzer]

I think what the OP is trying to say is, "There are a lot of Monpoc players. We love this game. We don`t want PP to just give up on it and forget it. Us veteran players would be really thrilled with a sixth series to balance out the 12 factions." If this is what he is trying to say, then I agree with him. It is a great game. I love it. I hope it doesn`t fade away. In order for it to survive, it needs support for PP (in the form of new releases). And, I hope PP releases a 6th series; I`d be thrilled to get a 5th monster for my Subterrans (and an installation).

DanTrollBlitzer

[Mandor]

1 case of ICNY monsters: over $100
1 case of ICNY units: over $100 (retail)
1 case of AYB monsters: over $50 (half a case gets you everything)
1 case of AYB units: over $100

That's over $350.

1 case of DMZ, which includes just about everything you'd get in the previous tally, plus a couple ICNY buildings, minus a few random duplicated uncommons, but with more unit consistency: $240

so no, not more expensive at all. 30% cheaper, actually.

DMZ is a reprint and is priced to get new people into the game. If we get a series 6, we won't get it at a DMZ price.

And just for fun, the CMG cases would be $203 at MiniatureMarket while the case of DMZ would be $180. Make me wonder how MM is planning on selling off their large stock.

Parenthetical remarks that exist between commas can be removed without changing the structure of the sentence and, though a tacky example, I think this demonstrates that a comma can follow the word "and."

VERY impressive.

[Omenbringer]

Would like to be able to get the first series models without having to buy another random two player box (I really want the Martian Menace Mother ship but wont buy any more two player sets because I wont chance yet another Shadow Sun Syndicate, hate the damn power rangers).

[olesideburns]

What I'd like to see as a Fan is PP help us help them... Can we setup some sort of "Fight Club" home work scheme? I hear all the time Demo, prize support, Etc. (The notion of Mega's, Shadow, Glass, etc isn't all that interesting to brand new players...)

I've built my local scene up to only watch it fall down, multiple times.

What I've been saying for a long time is.. I love the game.. but what can we do to make this game successful? There has to be another way to get the word out, make it easy for new players, and also get the veterans to come back to the game.

I think this is a good time to poll the community on what they feel is lacking or what they'd like to see. It seems like the Quantums will be the only carrot on a stick for a while. Does anyone think that's really the answer to all of this?

[Rick Blaine]

good news! that's quite affordable, comparatively.

The real good news here is that Miniature Market is even stocking DMZ despite also having hundreds of booster cases left over that they will never ever be able to sell at a profitable price. How many other retailers made such a leap of faith?

[Maou_Mint]

The real good news here is that Miniature Market is even stocking DMZ despite also having hundreds of booster cases left over that they will never ever be able to sell at a profitable price. How many other retailers made such a leap of faith?

Well, my local FLGS that I run events at did. Although they also only ordered a small amount because AYB wasn't the best selling set and they had a fair bit left over. That and summer is a gaming downtime due to folks going on vacation instead of buying and gaming so things might pick up in that department soon and maybe more will be ordered.

I'm still hoping we see some new stuff or new events soon. I know that new stuff from Privateer Press is always popular at my FLGS (WM battle engines and boxes were just about all sold out last week).

[Kingbobb]

Good points, but I feel that building a player base is a joint effort. Local players have to get PP support in order to do that. That means prize support and promotional stuff to give away at events. The older megas are a good idea, and megas in general bring people in. But that's going to wan in interest. Veteran players need new and shiny to pique their interest. Most events I attend, I don't even care about the prize, I'm playing because I love the game. Not everyone is like that. Local players can only do so much to generate interest in the game. Without an active PP presence, their efforts are not going to be as successful.

[olesideburns]

I've been thinking.. if there was a 30 minute version of Monpoc.. maybe that would be more enticing to new players and old players. Currently I've been throwing around ideas and the one that may work best is a rule addition that a Monster that takes Monster to Monster damage will take 1 bleed damage at the end of their attacker's turn. I know in general this gives all monsters super damage and potential super damage is 3+. This moves the game to a more Monster to Monster focus, Back to back turns, and potential allows games to take 30 minutes and end with both forms dead.

I really think some slight format changes would go along way in keeping the game fresh for old players and making new players feel like 30 minutes per game is more worth the investment (Since potentially tournaments double the amount of games played, or you can play best 2 out of 3 even)

[Maou_Mint]

I've been thinking.. if there was a 30 minute version of Monpoc.. maybe that would be more enticing to new players and old players. Currently I've been throwing around ideas and the one that may work best is a rule addition that a Monster that takes Monster to Monster damage will take 1 bleed damage at the end of their attacker's turn. I know in general this gives all monsters super damage and potential super damage is 3+. This moves the game to a more Monster to Monster focus, Back to back turns, and potential allows games to take 30 minutes and end with both forms dead.

I really think some slight format changes would go along way in keeping the game fresh for old players and making new players feel like 30 minutes per game is more worth the investment (Since potentially tournaments double the amount of games played, or you can play best 2 out of 3 even)

The Voltron game works just fine within 30 minutes or less without any extra rules. Cutting down map size and unit numbers actually speeds up the game greatly.

[DoctorD]

I want to echo Olesideburns sentiments, "I still think a revamped or simplified rules format could help out. I've demo'd the game plenty of times but it's easy for non-miniature players to get quickly overwhelmed by the number of Icon's and Rules."

I've demoed the game to a bunch of gamers and non-gamers and there is consistently a lot of interest in the idea of monsters battling it out over and smashing up cities. But as soon as the units come up their eyes glaze over and we lose them. I manage to get the gamers to play and they're fine for a while but then get overwhelmed by the number of Icons and Rules. They might recognize that it's a great game but, in addition to the icons and rules (or perhaps because of them), they feel that it takes too much time to "study" to be proficient - that is, to know what's going on to a point of feeling like they have a handle on the game. Of course, this is what gives Monsterpocalypse its depth and long term playability. We try some of the simplified rules options, like Tag Team or left-side stats only "intro" rules but the gamers feel like "it's not the real game" because of the way the simpler/faster rules options are presented. The advanced players miss the dice management or even double monster attack mechanics in Tag Team while the complete lack of abilities, sills, triggers and reactions is a major drawback for the "left side stats only" .

I've talked to other miniature gamers at my FLGS and they have a similar base conception as I had when I got into this awesome game - that it's a "casual" game. For those (40k players) that was a barrier (weird on some level I think). I think that's the sort of underlying connotation of the game and it's potential for mass (or larger) appeal - the sort of casual "Rampage" style connotation, rather than chess on steroids . But like video games, the depth of monpoc gives it a long "play time", which extends with expansions and such.

My wishlist for myself and the sustainability and expansion of this game is to have a much more formalized pair or set of "basic" to "advanced" (new terms please?) rules, with the basic rules focused on Monsters only. I know there is the "left-side stats only" intro rules in the Rise rulebook, but that never seems to satisfy the monster focus (and unit avoidance) that many potential players seem to want. Over on TC, Nate suggested that unit turns be replaced by a simple option to roll white dice for power, which preserves some of the dice management of real unit turns. I also suggested that white dice could also be rolled to drain power from an opponent, mimicking the power denial opportunities of a unit turn. I also think that skills, actions, and abilities could be used more easily in a monster only context, especially with the aid of figure specific cards (go jugglerv!). This also retains a very engaging (and ultimately essential) aspect of the rules set while making it feel "real" to the gamers without the need for units. I think structures' hazard reactions could also work given a simple reference card.

Finally, I'm ambivalent about the possibility of using units as static structure-like figures (i.e., left side stats only) to be placed on objective spaces in a "casual" or "basic" rules set. It would allow swats, stomps, unit movement actions and triggers, etc. and use of the figures that come in the sets. It would balance out more of the monsters for this format and make less "right side stats" irrelevant. However, it would possibly add a level of complexity very close to the "advanced" or full rules set. This ultimately suggests that a stepped series of rules options or modules that progresses from "casual" to "expert" might be a good approach, although I like the idea of two or maybe three format options that might be supported at events and such and so validated as "real" rules options.

I've been wanting to put that out there for a while now. I have an outline of a possible stepped or modular rules set approach but I think I'd prefer to have just two or three "official" options to create a casual game experience as a hook into the deeper game.

[Xerobull]

I'd like to interject that Jugglervr's awesome stat cards with explanations of each power REALLY help with the noob learning curve.

[PG_cthulhu-boy]

For the Annual Gameday, I hosted "newbie" events at one of the local libraries. We had stacks of cards for the local hobby shop and we had the whole group present. We found that if two newbies are facing one another with a veteran player as a neutral "sensei" things went great! We used the standard rules, although monuments were absent and 10 simpler units per army were used. I agree with xerobull that the cards made it much easier for the players!

[Wispur]

I agree with pretty much everything the OP said.

I avoided this game because of it's collectible nature.
Than I saw at Gencon that they were doing away with the Collectible nature of the game, so I gave it a try and immediately fell in love with it. I then dropped 100$ on it right there at the Con.

Now, having gotten home, I find that there is apparently nobody in the state of Florida that plays this game, and none of my local stores or pressgangers want to touch it.

That hasn't stopped me from buying a bunch of bugs because I think they're cool, but I fear they'll just be sitting here collecting dust unless PP does something to try and light a fire under this game.

It's an awesome game and it deserves better than it's gotten.

[PG_Sharkmoose]

PG or not, the best way to get players and games going in your local shop is to run demos. We all know how freaking awesome Monpoc is and it is so easy to convey that with a quick 15 -30 min demo. I know that every time I run a demo our local shop gets a new monpoc customer and we get a new player. The game is just that awesome and fun. If you don't have a Monpoc PG in your local shop and you want to grow the game you could always become the Monpoc PG in your area!!!

Cheers,
SM

[Green_Lumux]

I recently have gotten into this game, and I'm a huge fan and trying to recruit in my area. I think it has great potential, I'd love to see it revive and go on a rampage.