The Sturm & Drang Chronicles

[dboeren]

and here's the final shot.

[perilsensitive]

Nice! I saw that list and after you described it, I thought you were a goner for sure. That's the way to stick it out! Great job!

[dboeren]

If you asked me to explain how we killed them all, I'm not sure I'd be able to do it.

I can say however that Gudrun exceeded all expectations this game. He killed probably about 8-9 troopers by himself, despite the high DEF of the Satyxis. Then he went on to charge and kill the Bokur too. I attribute this to the pig mods, the plain ogrun version could never have done that.

[GRYM]

Dboeren,

Great write up again. You did have one thing you could of done before you sent in Sturm & Drang. It looks like your Bone Grinders could of gotten into range also for Arcane Bolt. They would of had a base 9 magic attack roll with the Bone Grinder Grinder and the 3 Bone Grinders. They would of need a 7 and that's doable for sure. Yeah ARM 15+2 so dice -6 but it might of done something and softened her up a point or two just in case of a poor damage roll. I know it was a pick-up game but remember over kill is a sure kill unless Tough is involved except in my Farrows cases. I also tend to find the Legion and Cryx armies to be ruthlessly efficient in certain combinations. These lists are not very flavorful lists, they are lists made just to win, but of course that is the point of the game right. It is in the aspect that in most of the tournaments I tend to see a lot of the same armies at the top 3 level or even top 10 in the larger tournaments. In most cases these army lists that are played are varied and that's good, but for some armies to place well they have to use certain casters or they will never see the top 3 or 5 or 10 through list selection, its more of a luck with the dice or opponent foul up somewhere. I think PP has done a good thing in that they require multiple lists for some of the tournaments that are official and some un-official tournaments also do this. But for those one off tournaments where you bring one list and play X games certain factions and certain casters within those factions with list "X" are neigh unstoppable. I think that PP should go one step forward and make a tournament rule where the previous years top 3 caster placements can't be used in official tournaments for 1 year. In M:TG they banned previous years winning decks for future tournaments if I recall. Stopped playing Magic back in 1995!! My Warmachine Faction is Cygnar and I enjoy them quite a bit, but as far as I know in official tournaments in the last few(3-4) years they have only placed in the top 3 only 2-3 times. Now I understand that in the MK1 days Cygnar did well for itself but these MKII days there are a few Factions that just don't make it into the top 3 level. I've only played in 1 tournament for MKII thus far but I played many official GW Warhammer Fantasy and 40k tournaments including 3 U.S. grand tournaments and a number at Gen-con & Origins and GW Games Days. I think no matter the game system there is always some in-balance. For GW games it tended to be Chaos a lot of the times plus one or two other armies based on game generation and codex/army guide generation. Even Battletech has it purposeful in-balance with the Clans vs. the Inner Sphere. I know that if a thread started on what people think the most balanced to least balanced armies where for both Hordes and Warmachine it would get shutdown fast. If you go to the GW website which I haven't been there for a number of months since looking for a models for my Mordheim warbands I don't think they even have forums. But make your way to some Fan websites and you'll see the discussions abound. I know one Cryx player who knew that the MKI Cryx book could be very abused and though less so now with MKII there are still a number of army list builds that are uber in his opinion. I think that what GW did was good when they went to a army structure list build style, where in fantasy you could have so many heroes, uncommon and rare units and as many common units as you wanted and for 40K they went with a unit type build out with command,troopers,support,fast attack and heavy and your unit selection availability was based on the scenario. I know that PP tries to do this though limiting the number of units of a particular unit you can have and wants to have a more open system but I think that adapting something along those lines would help facilitate a more mixed tournament result then they currently have. And YES the PIG MODS are what did for Gunrun-Pig who is in no way related to Brundl-Fly.

KSW

[dboeren]

Actually, I did shoot him with the Bone Grinders first. I forget if they hit or not, but in any case they didn't do much. We had I think a pretty good amount of overkill already, I just did what I could to finagle a little more with freeing up Gudrun and zapping with the Bone Grinders.

She ended up dying to the first hit, and Drang had 4 more Fury on him so that's two more boosted swings and one damage boost (I figure at least one will hit since we need 9's on 3d6). After that, if she'd still been standing, the two Slaughterhousers would have charged and there's a good chance one would hit at 4d6-6, or an average roll of 8 more. She was hurt before any of us started, having taken 5 feat damage (2 later healed by the Necrosurgeon) as well as about 4 points worth of Life Trader killing my War Hog so I think she started 7 points down.

There's a sig one of the other long-time vets has that goes something like "The object of the game is to win, the purpose of the game is to have fun". I'm more in it to have fun, although obviously I do have an interest in tactics and winning as well. The opposing list was probably geared a little more towards winning than fun but not the worst I've seen. The Warmachine factions have the most models, so they're always going to have more stackability, especially compared to Minions. We just have to use the tools we have and do our best to recognize which pieces are priority and neutralize them before things get bad.

I've never played Magic so pardon my ignorance, but I don't see how you can ban a whole deck. What would that even mean - banning every single card that made up the deck? Individual CARDS can certainly be banned, and should if they're causing a serious enough problem (keeping in mind that the goal of a CCG is to be intentionally unbalanced, that's how they get folks to spend money).

The only similar game I play is the Call of Cthulhu LCG. Since it's not collectable you don't have to chase rares and they don't intentionally put out overpowered cards. Mistakes can be made though. They have banned 2 cards since the beginning of the game, and 5 additional cards have been designated "Restricted". You can have only one Restricted card type in your deck (you can still have the normal up to 3 copies).

[SalsaShark]

I have to admit when I saw the Cryx list I thought you were sunk. However, I play Cryx too and that is way to many troops. Skarre can run a few jacks @ 50pts. Probably would have been helpful against your Hogs.

[diehard]

Wow, S&D just get more interesting the more I find out about them. Thanks once again for the write up and of course your keen observations as usual. Can't wait to get my Farrow on the table. (mumble grumble damn fully painted rule mumble grumble......)

[dboeren]

I have to admit when I saw the Cryx list I thought you were sunk. However, I play Cryx too and that is way to many troops. Skarre can run a few jacks @ 50pts. Probably would have been helpful against your Hogs.

Well, Skarre troop-spam is a fairly easy sort of list to run and her feat goes a long way to taking down enemy heavies (so does including some Mechanithralls), and Dark Guidance makes your low MAT Mechs hit reliably. It's the sort of thing that more or less runs itself, so it's bound to be a popular sort of list.

But, at a certain point overcrowding becomes an issue, and he suffered for it this game. Yeah, I think it would have been to his advantage to thin the herd a little bit and put in some jacks. It lowers the crowding issues, it provides an efficient outlet for her Focus, and it provides force concentration when you need it (possibly for an assassination too). Dropping a unit of something for a couple more Stalkers alone might have done it. But mostly he was a Dark Guidance battery that camped focus to be safe and handed out just a little to his two jacks.

I was happy to make it through that many bodies though, it looked pretty grim at the start of the game

[SalsaShark]

I got in two games with S&D yesterday. I wanted to ask if you would mind if I added some thoughts?

[dboeren]

Go right ahead. All the Chronicles threads are open for anyone to contribute so we can all learn how to better dominate the snoutless races.

[Beckman]

Go right ahead. All the Chronicles threads are open for anyone to contribute so we can all learn how to better dominate the snoutless races.

I actually think that Cryx player is running too infantry light. He has a stalker that he doesn't need, and the Skarlok and Slaughterborn are wasted points. I'm on the fence about the Wraith Engine. I would just add more troops.

Pirate Queen Skarre (*6pts)
* Deathripper (4pts)
* Deathripper (4pts)
Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Mechanithralls (Leader and 9 Grunts) (5pts)
Mechanithralls (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts) - Skarre's Special Friends Forever Attachment*
Satyxis Blood Witches (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Satyxis Blood Hag (2pts)
Satyxis Raiders (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Satyxis Raider Sea Witch (2pts)
Bane Lord Tartarus (4pts)
Satyxis Raider Captain (2pts)

*Or rather, Special friends until she guts you for focus :P

Raiders move up a flank to avoid taking up space. Mech thralls in front, followed by two waves of Banes. Raiders engage you first, to tie you up. They pop feat and charge 14" with weaponmaster. Mech thralls move up and threaten. Banes are behind them, threatening charge. When either the second wave engages, pop feat and cast Dark Guidance.

Blood Hag + unit is pretty much there to be annoying and gum stuff up, plus hit high DEF targets with gang... Their mini-feat is awesome and can be used defensively or offensively... So they're usually flanking on the opposite side of the Raiders. Raiders bring the tie-up on the right, On the same turn the Raiders charge, the witches threaten from the left side. Mechanithralls and banes from the front.

If you don't split them up into waves, it can be hard to manage... but Cryx lists are more terrifying when you're being held up and in place by an AOE immune reach unit and staring down the barrel of multiple units of weaponmaster.

[SpaceMonkeyFromSpace]

Sorry if I missed it, but I didn't catch the part where you gave us advice on how to play against that list with Sturm and Drang or pigs in general. It sounded more like "That other list isn't as scary as the Cryx list I would have brought! Cryx Rules!"

If, as it seems, you play Cryx a lot (or against Cryx a lot) give us all some pointers. What tactics or army building choices would help us out in this situation?

[dboeren]

In general, it's a troop-spam army. When you're up against a lot of troops, you're going to want lots of anti-infantry. That's going to be your own troops, AOEs, sprays, etc... In addition, you've got some hard hitting models there so you're going to want to avoid exposing your War Hogs or other beasts to them - meaning your troops will probably be up front. Enemy models with Tough are of course candidates for Slaughterhousers if you happen to have them.

But mostly yeah, I think the main point was more "Cryx, rah!" than anything else or a general point that Farrow don't have as many options and combos as the original Warmachine factions like Cryx do. That's obviously true, and sometimes we've got to adapt and get through the best we can on what we've got right now. It will get better as we get more models, but that takes time and since we aren't a normal faction we'll never really "catch up". From a practical point of view you can either:
1. Accept this and enjoy playing pigs, learning to apply your limited tools to a wide variety of situations
2. Rage against an obviously unchangeable situation for years (you can optionally quit in disgust at some later point)
3. Don't play pigs

I'm picking #1.

[SpaceMonkeyFromSpace]

For clarification my previous post was aimed at Beckman. Not meant as a slam. Just hoping for some insight there.

Dboeren: No disrespect meant to this thread which has been awesome. I follow your posts (as others do) with rapt attention.

I will also pick #1. Playing with limited resources might not always be easy, but I'm hoping it will help me become a better player in the long run.

[dboeren]

No worries, I understood your intent

[GRYM]

All,
I pick #1 also. In highlight to the Cryx list I ran Carver vs. E Haley @ 35 pts. Which brings me to the point of there isn't a Lord Carver BMMD Chronicles so I am making one. See you there! And yes it was really rough!!

KSW

[diehard]

+1 for #1. If you can't stand the dirt stay out of the pigpen.

[Beckman]

But mostly yeah, I think the main point was more "Cryx, rah!" than anything else or a general point that Farrow don't have as many options and combos as the original Warmachine factions like Cryx do. That's obviously true, and sometimes we've got to adapt and get through the best we can on what we've got right now. It will get better as we get more models, but that takes time and since we aren't a normal faction we'll never really "catch up". From a practical point of view you can either:
1. Accept this and enjoy playing pigs, learning to apply your limited tools to a wide variety of situations
2. Rage against an obviously unchangeable situation for years (you can optionally quit in disgust at some later point)
3. Don't play pigs

I'm picking #1.

Please don't mischaracterize my arguments.. I was strictly speaking in terms of Sturm and Drang's competitiveness. Not about Farrow casters as a whole.

For clarification my previous post was aimed at Beckman. Not meant as a slam. Just hoping for some insight there.

Dboeren: No disrespect meant to this thread which has been awesome. I follow your posts (as others do) with rapt attention.

I will also pick #1. Playing with limited resources might not always be easy, but I'm hoping it will help me become a better player in the long run.

My bad, I missed the reply... In general, I think Carver is a better 'lock than S&D against Cryx. Taking decent number lot of Farrow Briggands can work in your favor. I would rather play:

Lord Carver (*6pts)
* Gun Boar (5pts)
* Gun Boar (5pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 9 Grunts) (7pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 9 Grunts) (7pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 9 Grunts) (7pts)
Rorsh & Brine (9pts)

Than Sturm and Drang against a cryx list. You've got 2 AOEs 3s, and thirty guys with melee attacks and guns at a discount. Rorsh and Brine is a mobile plinking machine which fills the role of a long-range striker. Yeah, you lose to eGaspy... but most lists do. You have a good shot to beat a well rounded infantry swarm, like pDenny.

Warwitch Deneghra (*5pts)
* Deathripper (4pts)
* Deathripper (4pts)
* Skarlock Thrall (2pts)
Bane Knights (Leader and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Bane Thrall Officer & Standard (3pts)
Mechanithralls (Leader and 9 Grunts) (5pts)
* 1 Brute Thrall (1pts)
Satyxis Raiders (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Satyxis Raider Sea Witch (2pts)
Bane Lord Tartarus (4pts)
Bloat Thrall (2pts)
Satyxis Raider Captain (2pts)

I think you've got an OK shot at it... shoot stuff with the Brigands, attrition with your Hogs. War Hogs aren't the best in this matchup, but that's OK. I think you could make Lord Carver work against an infantry swarm in better ways than S&D. Perhaps that's just me...

[ajay29]

Just throwing in my experience with S&D from Tuesday just gone...

Me -
Sturm & Drang
3 x Warhog
2 x Gunboar
Targ
Max Brigands
Slaughterhousers
Min Grinders
Gudrun

Gaz -
pShade
Deathjack
Cankerworm
2 x Slayers
Deathripper
Defiler
Max Thralls (no UA)
2 x Siren
2 x Pistolwraith

We both went balls to the wall, which was nice. Very little sneaky shenanigans. I went first...

Round 1;
General run towards each other, Sturm does his usual (watcher, vision, deflection), Gudrun goes way wide and gets chased by both sirens, a pistol AND DJ (slight overkill gaz?). I think 1 brigand died to an arc'd hex blast...

Round 2;
Brigands virtually wipe the thralls off the table, Gudrun wiffs his attack on the corporeal pistol (uh oh...), 2 slaughterhousers knock half Cank's health off, the gunboars (with an ancillary attack) kill a thrall, deathwalker and put some damage on a slayer. Warhogs and Sturm advance behind the line. DJ kills gudrun (twice...), while siren sprays and pistols clear out most of the central brigands. Canks eats 2 slaughterhousers and a slayer eats another. pShade advances, soulgates DJ back into the middle, kills a brigand to get deathwalker back and feats his 6 Thralls into my 3 hogs... I activate watcher so one of the hogs can kill a thrall before it attacks, then the other 5 put minor-to-middling damage on the hogs.

Round 3;
I see an assassination... I go Drang!
Thanks to goad, 2 of the hogs manage to kill the 5 thralls and get out of the way of the third. Drang throws a boosted Obliteration at pShade and misses... then throws up Killing Ground. The 3rd hog charges deathwalker, tusking her to death, then misses pShade with 5 of his 6 attacks needing 6s to hit... knocks off about 7 health... The 2 gunboars max fury taking both arms off a slayer, now I'm running very hot on fury... and Drang has none... The remaining 'housers kill canks and a thrall.
Gaz now a chance to get Drang, but DJ has to kill the Hog in combat with Shade, giving Drang 4 fury back! A Pistolwraith deathchills Drang and pShade goes for it anyway (staying at max melee range), but with transfers Drang lives easily.

Round 4;
Drang leaches, a gunboar frenzies on the slayer, and a hog goads over to pShade and one-shots him.

Overall a great game, absolute slaughter on both sides after 2 failed assassination runs. Very enjoyable!

[Beckman]

Sounds like it was a fun game. I will say, though... the other player was certainly blazing new listbuilding territory... Taking no less than 6 Jacks without a jack caster.

Shadowmancer and Soul Gate aren't a substitute for having enough focus to fuel the number of jacks in your list... Or... you know... Terminal Velocity.

Round 3;
I see an assassination... I go Drang!
Thanks to goad, 2 of the hogs manage to kill the 5 thralls and get out of the way of the third. Drang throws a boosted Obliteration at pShade and misses... then throws up Killing Ground. The 3rd hog charges deathwalker, tusking her to death, then misses pShade with 5 of his 6 attacks needing 6s to hit... knocks off about 7 health... The 2 gunboars max fury taking both arms off a slayer, now I'm running very hot on fury... and Drang has none... The remaining 'housers kill canks and a thrall.
Gaz now a chance to get Drang, but DJ has to kill the Hog in combat with Shade, giving Drang 4 fury back! A Pistolwraith deathchills Drang and pShade goes for it anyway (staying at max melee range), but with transfers Drang lives easily.

Could he have used Power Attack: Double-Handed Throw to get the Hog out of the way and still gone for the assassination run? There's really no good reason to go for an assassination run with 4 transfers on the enemy caster.... ever. But if he could have thrown the Hog and gotten rid of it that way, maybe he could have still got the assassination off?

[dboeren]

Maybe... If he needed to charge to reach the War Hog then probably not (and a Slam would likely have knocked down Goreshade). If he was within walking distance then probably so.

Still sounds like a fun game.

[ajay29]

Sounds like it was a fun game. I will say, though... the other player was certainly blazing new listbuilding territory... Taking no less than 6 Jacks without a jack caster.

Indeed he was. Weirdly wasn't that bad, plus it was a game for fun.

Could he have used Power Attack: Double-Handed Throw to get the Hog out of the way and still gone for the assassination run? There's really no good reason to go for an assassination run with 4 transfers on the enemy caster.... ever. But if he could have thrown the Hog and gotten rid of it that way, maybe he could have still got the assassination off?

He said the exact same thing after we finished. Double handed throw would have solved his problems, but thats the benefit of hindsight.

[dboeren]

True. It's always easy to come up with the solution afterward, when we have time to think and the situation is under scrutiny by a hundred sets of eyes reading your battle report. Not always as easy in the heat of the moment!

Slayers are pretty solid jacks even when lightly fueled thanks to three attacks and Combo Strike, and it's pretty much never wrong to take the Deathjack. Then you've got Stealth for them which is nice, as well as teleporting. He could probably do with fewer arcnodes or dropping Cankerworm, but I don't think it's a horrible list. Personally I'd swap some of the bonies for faster troops and Bane support but that's about it.

[ajay29]

Had another 50 pointer last night against Chris. Good game for two reasons - I lost, and I learnt more

Me -
S&D
3 x Warhog
2 x Gunboar
Targ
Max Brigands
Slaughterhousers
Min Grinders
Razorback

Chris -
pButcher
Beast 09
Behemoth
Destroyer
Marauder
Max Kayazy with Underboss
Manhunter(ess)
Aiyanna and Holt

I'd swapped out Gundrun for a Razorback for extra ranged punch, and was quite fond of it

Round 1;
A lot of my stuff was AD plus I went first, so I got up in chris' grill. Threw out a bunch of blasts at the kayazy but the deviations didn't go my way. Sturm, put up watcher and deflection, and TK'd the razorback forwards more.
Chris advanced, ignored the dug-in brigands with his own AOEs and shot at the slaughterhousers instead, downing one i think. The kayazy ran to engage the slaughterhousers with the manhunter too. pButch put Iron Flesh on himself.

Round 2;
I need to clear out some kayazy, and with a plethora of blasts plus some mat8 'housers, should be easy right? Right? No, I manage to kill about 3... Brigands run to clog up the middle as his 4 heavies are eye'ing up my 3, and my 'Hogs advance up behind them. Sturm puts Vision on the one closest to Beast....
Chris see's a golden opportunity for slaughter, and after some (lengthy) consideration, pops his feat and puts Fury on Beast. Kayazy MULLER through the 'housers... or would have done if my Tough rolls hadn't been golden this turn. Don't think he killed any... One of them charged Sturm, but missed. Holt clears some brigands blocking the way, and Beast charges the Hog. I activate Watcher and walk him away (if he sits there, he eats a pow 22 + 4d6 plus additional attacks, or he eats a free strike if he walks away... its not rocket science), and then realise myself that Vision will negate the free strike anyway! Chris isn't impressed, but he crit freezes the Hog with the strike anyway. Cherry on the cake is Watcher is still active as I haven't made an attack with it yet. Behemoth and Destroyer drop their bombards on the frozen 'Hog and bring him down to about 4 health. Unfortunate waste of a feat for Chris.

Round 3;
Beast has to die now. Sturm heals the 'Hog that shook off frozen and puts up Deflection I think... And then feats. It takes 2 hogs (one of whom was Aggresion dialled) PLUS Targs ancillary attack to kill beast... rolls were quite bad. Other hog and the gunboars kill some kayazy, as do the 'housers, leaving the Underboss and leader. Amazingly a brigand hits an Iron-fleshed Butcher for 2 damage! Moral victory!
Chris, clearly unconcerned about only being able to give 1 focus to his 'jacks, charges forward! Behemoth charges the 2 hogs that killed Beast, I Watcher again to get the undamaged one away from him, but an armour piercing free strike HURTS... the hog lives with ONE health... Unsurprisingly he kills the almost dead one. The destroyer then shoots the other one dead, while the marauder combo-smites the last one over sturm... (this is in the wrong order btw, behemoth dropped 2 bombards on the KD'd Sturm for about half his health after the marauder had slammed, my bad).

Round 4;
After some meticulous measuring of my control area, I CAN get to Butch with a hog. Unfortunately I need to be Sturm and therefore no mat 8 'Hog... Firstly the brigands shoot at Butch again, and once again one hits him, and does 4 damage!!
Sturm TK's pButch closer, TK's Behemoth out of the way and TK's the Hog towards butch. This still leaves it roughly 0.5" out of it's maximum threat range. PUSH POWER ATTACK TO THE RESCUE!!! Yeah a gunboar moves behind the 'Hog and nudges it forwards! Rock and roll!
However, the 'Hog had to shake KD, and also pays for the charge. He NEEDS to boost the hit on the Gore attack and get a crit to KD butch to have any chance... Long story short, it fails and everything else misses...
Chris gives Behemoth focus, but it's not needed as he one shots Sturm

Lessons learned?
Watcher + Vision is cash money.
If you're going to TK the enemy caster towards your 'Hog.... TURN HIM AROUND TOO!!! Can't believe I forgot to turn him around...
S&D is not an anti-armour caster. They are an anti-Def caster and good at taking an alpha strike. 4 Khador Heavies = losing.
Max brigands OR 2 gunboars. Not both.
Take moar 'Housers!!!

[GRYM]

Ajay29,

That's a rough loss, but you put in the good fight, going toe-to-toe with 4 Khador Heavies. Have you thought about the following option; 1x Gun boar, 2x MIN Farrow Brigands,1x Razorback for the same 18 points your paying for the 2x Gun Boars & 1x MAX Farrow Brigands unit. That way you get an extra Razorback to replace the Gun Boar w/more range and you get 2 xtra brigands over a MAX unit and 2 units besides to put in front of the Razorbacks for a speed bump or to engage other models so you can bring what you want to bear on said target by giving them the Heroic Call option.


The MIN unit option reminds me of playing WH40K w/Space Marines doing the 5 man sqds allowing you to target more enemy units or engage them.


KSW

[ajay29]

Yeah the 2 gun boars were pretty defunct in this list once the kayazy were whittled down and engaged, so I'm still perfecting the list. Swapping 1 gun boar and the max for 2 min and a razorback would be a decent idea, but I was also toying with swapping a gun boar and the max brigands for another razorback, another unit of 'housers and a min brigands...

Anywho, it was a tough match up against one of my hardest regular opponants, and I'm putting my loss down to the fact that I never Drang'd in this match haha

[dboeren]

If you're out of troops to shoot at, and facing jacks with too high an ARM for a boosted POW 13 to do much to them, Power Attacks are probably a good job for your Gunboars. Have them Slam the Khador jacks to reduce their effectiveness - any Fury he's got to spend shaking off is less he's got for them to fight with. Sturm can also TK their facing around helping the Slams hit easier as well as stopping them from charging after they shake off (target not in LOS).

Of course, they can also go after casters. If nothing else, they can Slam a trooper (or each other in the case of medium based casters) through an enemy caster so something else can beat on them w/ autohits. I've often dealt with BOK Vlad that way, having a trooper run up next to him so a beast can Slam it into Vlad and knock him down.

[ajay29]

dboeren, your sage advice once again points me in the right direction
Even after the years I've been playing this game, power attacks are still a few-and-far-between affair...

[Dan from Chicago]

played S&D and two War Hogs against a pKaya battlebox ... lost one warhog because I forgot to feat ... second hog + Drang killed the feral and an argus ... pKaya tries to kill the hog, then Drang kills her, crit pitching her into the other argus

[cannonball]

Thanks for your efforts with this thread and as a new Hog Player its been a joy to read. Keep up with it please.

[Kommander Ridkhov]

I played SnD vs Naaresh last night, 35pts of kill box

My list was:
1 SnD
2 warhogs
1 gunboar
1 targ
6 slaughterhousers
1 rorsh n brine

My opponent had naaresh, 3 titans, 10 nihilators and 6 paingivers

First turn I dranged and bombed forward as fast as I can, my opponent did similar with lamentation and iron flesh on the nihilators and knocked down a few with the cannoneer (3 tough rolls passed!)

Turn two I went sturm. Killed a nihilator with the gunboar cannon, slaughterhousers took another one. Activated drang, put counterblast on him, watcher on a hog and vision on brine, then telekened rorsh in front of brine.

Next I activated rorsh who moved slightly forward, did diversionary tactics, rnb got thru the screen of nihilators, rorsh threw a bomb at naaresh but missed. Activated brine, vision got rid of 1 free strike, took 4 damage from the last nihilator and charged naaresh... 3 hits later it was game over hehe

Pigz ftw!!

[Hjelmen0]

Don't forget that you cannot make attacks with Rorsh if he uses Diversionary Tactic, since that is a (* Action).

But sounds like a good game I will (hopefully) be trying out Sturm & Drang next monday.

[Pirrekurr]

Turn two I went sturm. Killed a nihilator with the gunboar cannon, slaughterhousers took another one. Activated drang, put counterblast on him, watcher on a hog and vision on brine, then telekened rorsh in front of brine.

It is a bit unclear. You chose to use Sturm, then activated Drang. I guess it is just a typo. Also isn't watcher range self? (I guess you meant put watcher on Sturm so that you could move a War Hog later if you didn't manage to kill Naaresh). I feel like a whiner but it isn't super clear what happens. But the most important is there. Go S&D for the win. I have only proxied him once but now I'm painting the model and then I am only waiting for the chance to play him as fast as possible.

[Kommander Ridkhov]

You can buy attacks with fury after making a special action, that's how I threw the grenade

Yeah sorry I meant activate sturm and he cast watcher on himself. I had a warhog close by, and he had counterblast up to... Not taking any chances with naaresh and his cyclone attacks!

I am impressed with how they work so far, got a tourney in 2 weeks and I want to use SnD as my caster, hopefully should through off my opponents.

[Hjelmen0]

You can buy attacks with fury after making a special action, that's how I threw the grenade.

I'm sorry, but you can't A special action precludes a combat action, which means you cannot make attacks. Unless there is a sentence in Diversionary Tactic that I have missed that allows Rorsh to make attacks afterwards, but I don't think there is a such

[Dracon]

Keep in mind, we still have the road hog to come, and considering the tier list as well these guys could become a lot more powerful.

[deadboytat2]

So I played a 35 pt game with SnD this week during my lunch break. Because it was a lunch break I did not get to finish the game. I'm not sure who would have one I was in a fairly good position to mess him up on my turn and he only had to do a few more points to be to finish me off so it could have gone either way but I will tell you a little about what I learned and the list I took.

SnD +5
Warhog
Warhog
Road Hog
Housers
Housers
Targ

He was playing Normal Kaya
Stalker
Warp wolf
gorax
Full wolves
shifting stones
Black clad
Morraig

I do not know if that is the exact list but it is as close as I remember it. We were playing one of the new scenarios for 2012 I'm not sure if I'm allowed to give details on them or not so I'm going to leave what mission ect out of this. Like I said I had to get back to work before I was able to finish the game so It did not really matter.

Turn One
I went first and because of the tier bonuses I was able to have watcher and vision up for free. This left me able to Telekinesis the road hog and one of my warhogs up 2 inches and cast defection. I Ran both my Housers up putting one on the right behind a wall and the others on a side of some woods and into a control zone. all of my beasts moved up and targ ran so that he was in between the road hog and the warhog on the left.

He moved everything up coming at me. Positioning the shifting stones forward so as to be really annoying if he wanted to be. The gorax moved so he was in the middle of the wolf unit and the Wolf Lord ran way out to my left to get a charge on my warhog. He also moved the stalker and warp wolf so that they could get to my warhog next turn if they wanted too.

Turn two.
I Was not sure how I was going to deal with this list at this point. He was still too far away to risk the road hog because I did not want to just through him away. If I went for it I might have got most of his wolves in the spray and the gorax but He would be totally alone and die on Kevin's turn. So I decided to move him just a little so he was 5inchs in front of strum and wait it out. I push a few things around on my board but mostly I hung tight. I did put deflection up again even though I realized he really had no shooting and it was a pointless thing to do but I wanted to stay in the habit of remembering it. I also moved vision from the road hog to the war hog on my right. I then moved it to be 4 inches away from strum in the left front of him. This way if he charged and was just a little off with his move I would get to watcher him back and ignore the charge hit from vision.

On his turn he was a little more ballsy then me. All of his wolves moved up a little and one ran full on to engage my right most warhog. Then the wolf lord charged him and with a splendidly lack luster roll only did like 10 damage to me with both the mount and his attack. But he did light cav move him to threaten stum and make me take notice of him. The shifting stones moved up and he cast some spells. The warp wolf and the stalker shifted but other wise did not charge.

Turn Three
Ok he was in a much better position to try out the Road Hog now. So I went for it. I sent him at one of the shifting stones and assaulted Hitting half his wolf unit and the gorax. I killed like 4 wolf's lit 2 on fire and also did about 6 points to the gorax and lit him on fire. I was pretty impressed so far. I made his initial attacks taking out one wolf and the shifting stone I charged. So far I was extremely happy with how the road hog performed. I then moved targ up a little and had him make the road hog spray again. This time into the black clad I think and some more wolves. I did 4 points to the black clad he was on fire and got one more wolf in the second spray. To clarify I was able to do this because I was no longer engaged in melee with anything. The hog on the left shifted a bit but was still too far away to charge so sat it out. The hog on the right knocked The wolf lord down and killed his wolf. The housers on the right moved and killed the wolf engaging my hog and finished of the lord Morraig.

His turn three is where it got hairy. He moved up his wolves and I was able to make a watcher move with he road hog back in front of strum. But I messed up here as I forgot that I need to take the watcher move each time a model moves Into range and because I am too used to 40k
I waited for his hole unit to move first before I did this. Live and learn. He moved his stalker up and went for strum. All of his attacks went out and strum was at 2 points left. And the hog on the right died from transfer damage. The hog on the left got hit by the warp wolf but thanks too watcher and some crappy dice rolling on his part I was still relatively OK. This is where we had to end the game though. Unfortunately I did not get to see where I would fair.

My presumed next turn depending on dice would go something like this though.

I would go to drang mode! Id spend some furry to heal the Warhog a bit and then punch the shifting stone that was right in front of him and pop my feat. Id turn the road hog on and punch the stalker has hard as I could and then use targ to give him one More attack. With Pack hunters up I have a decent chance of hitting at least so this should get him down alot or If I get some good rolls kill him out right. I would then Use the warhog to Beat the warp wolf into the ground or at least again get him close. Id then move the housers on the left so that i had three near the stalker and in front of sturm and three next to the warpwolf. With Finisher and some charges I should be able to kill them if they are not already dead. With the Houser's on the right (I only have 4 of these left as some wolves did kill some of them on previous turns) Id go after the hurt and burning gorax and try and finish that off and close in on drangs right flank so he cant be charged willie nillie. I'm Pretty sure if things worked out that I would be OK but if they did not work out he would win on his turn.

In conclusion I have decided I really like the road hog.
Im not sure how I feel about SnD but I like the model too much to not play with him every chance I get! Next game I want to play 50 points with him and that will be the deciding factor I for how I feel about him.

My 50 point list will look like this.
SnD
Warhog
Warhog
Warhog
Road Hog
Targ
min bone grinders
Housers
Housers
Razorback
Razorback

[Kommander Ridkhov]

I'm sorry, but you can't A special action precludes a combat action, which means you cannot make attacks. Unless there is a sentence in Diversionary Tactic that I have missed that allows Rorsh to make attacks afterwards, but I don't think there is a such

I bow to your superior nerdishness My minion book has a sentence in Diversionary Tactic about smug responses tho

[Kommander Ridkhov]

The tourney I'm going to is allowing domination and wrath proxies, I'm unsure if I should just scratch build a road hog from an old minotaur and a plastic boar head, or whether to get another war hog and convert it up, then use it as a war hog once the official one is released?

I'm really keen to try it out as I think it will be a great anti cryx weapon

[cannonball]

Could someone please talk me through how I can get both Massacre and Goad to interact? Ideally I'd like to try and get the warbeast to advance a total of 3" and then make an attack but I'm not too sure.