Beatback Collision questions...

[KevStormJ]

Example 1:


Alpha Yasheth is yet to take damage from the hazard he is currently on. Alpha Tectomoc hits with a Brawl for a northern Beatback into the wall. Does Yasheth collide with the Hazard he occupies? (2 damage?)

Same set up but different question: If Tectomoc Brawled Yasheth for a southern Beatback, would Yasheth take damage for the hazard he is on as well as the hazard Tectomoc is on and for colliding with Tectomoc? (4 damage?)

Example 2:


Alpha Yasheth has not taken damage from the hazard he is currently on. Alpha Tectomoc hits with a Brawl for a northern Beatback into Tectomoc and the hazard he is on. Since Yasheth will take damage from colliding with Tectomoc and the Hazard he is on by, in effect, overlapping into those squares, would Yasheth take another point of damage from the hazard he is currently on when he "bounces" back to that square? (4 Damage?)

Thanks!

[Mod_Donaldbain]

Does Yasheth collide with the Hazard he occupies? (2 damage?)

Yes

would Yasheth take damage for the hazard he is on as well as the hazard Tectomoc is on and for colliding with Tectomoc? (4 damage?)

Yes.

would Yasheth take another point of damage from the hazard he is currently on when he "bounces" back to that square? (4 Damage?)

No, only three damage will be dealt. To collide with Tectomic, Yasheth has to move forward one space which takes him off the Hazard so he doesn't collide with it. Being 'bounced back' does not count as colliding so Yasheth is still unaffected by the Hazard he starts out on.

[KevStormJ]

Excellent. Thanks for the clarification.

[Cottondonkey]

I have a question about the third scenario.
Let's say Yasheth has already taken damage from the tile he is currently on, because he is a pedestrian.
Tectomoc brawl beat backs Yasheth into himself.
So Yasheth moves off the hazard he is currently on and into Tectomoc and the hazard Tectomoc is on for 3 damage, as stated above.
Now Yasheth can't occupy the same space as Tec, so he "bounces" back to where he was originally.
Because he moved off and back on, and because he is a pedestrian, he would take a point of damage, right?
Bringing the total to 4?
(it wouldn't be collision damage, just damage for not having flight and moving off then placed back on the hazard)

[olesideburns]

I think they answered that already. I think it's best to not see the "Bounce" as Donald-Bain said, Bounce doesn't force you to collide. I'd also expect that to get damaged by a hazard a second time you must move COMPLETELY off the hazard. Think about a 1 space Throw on a hazard you already are on, sure theoretically you leave the hazard but not as far as the rules are concerned.

[Cottondonkey]

Not really. If you look at the 3rd example, (example pic #2) it's stated he takes no collision damage. Technically, Yasheth has moved into the first space that Tec and the hazard occupies, and moves fully off of the hazard Yasheth occupies.
Because Yasheth cannot legally occupy that space, Yasheth is put back where he was. Without flight, that would mean he left the hazard he was occupying and placed back onto it. It's not collision damage, but without flight he would still take damage from moving off and back on.
It would appear that the figure hasn't moved at all, because he can't legally occupy the same space as Tec, but technically he has to take the damage from the hazard Tec is on.
So I'm sure he would take damage, but it wouldn't be collision damage. Just hazard damage, like walking off and onto a hazard.

The answered reply does state Yasheth moves off the hazard he is originally on in order to get the collision damage from Tec and his hazard but is placed back in his legal space, not taking collision damage from the hazard he was initially on. But that doesn't mean he doesn't take that damage if he does not have flight.

[Cottondonkey]

No, only three damage will be dealt. To collide with Tectomic, Yasheth has to move forward one space which takes him off the Hazard so he doesn't collide with it. Being 'bounced back' does not count as colliding so Yasheth is still unaffected by the Hazard he starts out on.

K. To clarify my question;
why doesn't Yasheth take the damage from the hazard? He's a Pedestrain, so I thought that because he couldn't fly, and the only legal placement was back on the hazard he has not previously (or even if he had) taken damage from he would take a damage irreguardless of if it's collition damage or not.
Because stepping or moving onto hazards without flight can cause 1 damage not made from a collision.
Or is this suggesting that your opponents monster can only take hazard damage from a hazard through collisions on your turn?
Or is it because Yasheth must be placed back into a legal space he can occupy? So he's placed instead of moved?
(I guess that's what I'm asking.)

[Mod_Donaldbain]

I see what you're saying CD & I hadn't thought of it that way. Gonna call a pow-wow on this.

[Kingbobb]

Just my thoughts: Yasheth never actually moves. The language from the updated rulings is that Yasheth encounters those spaces. My inference is that Yasheth never actually leaves the spaces he's in, because an indestructible figure prevents it from moving at all. In other words, there's no bounce effect. Yasheth is not moving forward and then backward a space, which would allow it to collide again with the hazard it was sitting on at the start of the attack.

This would be a little more simple if we didn't have a limit on hazard damage.

[Cottondonkey]

@kingbobb
I'm starting to understand what's being said. But I still find it kinda confusing.
I just find the whole encounter thing strange.
Like if Tec blocks Yasheth from entering the spaces then how does Yasheth encounter the Hazard that is underneath him (and beside) for hazard collision damage?
How does Yasheth avoid the collision hazard damage from beneath Yasheth (if he didn't take damage from it already) if he is beatbacked into Tec?
It's like the encounter basically has him move in theory to avoid collision damage from the hazard he is on but has him not move so he can avoid being damaged by the hazard he is on that he would normally take damage from if he had moved off the hazard and back on again.
So, it's kind of saying he did move but he didn't move, and that's what's confusing me.

I haven't encountered this scenario personnally but I'm sure I will sometime and would like to be able to explain it.
I almost feel like I'm condradicting what I'm saying by saying they would take that damage and not that damage because it's like they moved. But they don't take that damage because they didn't move.

And thanks Donald, even if the result is the same, mabey a different way to clarify it would help me out.

[Mod_Donaldbain]

Just my thoughts: Yasheth never actually moves. The language from the updated rulings is that Yasheth encounters those spaces. My inference is that Yasheth never actually leaves the spaces he's in, because an indestructible figure prevents it from moving at all.

This is correct.

A collision occurs when a monster is forced to move
through or occupy a space occupied by another monster
or a unit, hazard, or building.

So for a monster collision you would need to be moved far enough that you would overlap the other monster base with yours. This is a "virtual overlap", the monster that was moving never occupies the other monsters space.

Even though the [in this case Monster] prevents the monster
from physically moving into the space it still contacts both before
being placed in the last space it could occupy.).

So Yasheth never actually leaves the Hazard tile so the 'bounce' doesn't happen.

[Cottondonkey]

Thanks everyone.

I think what really messed me up about the whole thing is the last line of what you have in the 3rd quote D.
It does say it prevents you from physically moving into the spaces and that you would still contact the spaces the indestructable figure/monster is occupying.
It's just the last part saying "before being placed in the last space it could occupy."

It messed me up because I would then think that it physically moved, even though it states it didn't, just before this last statement.
Got it now, though.
Thanks