EHaley seeking advice and tips. . . 35pt

[veragor1206]

EHaley -5
Thorn 8
Defender 9
Cyclone 9
Squire 2

Black 13th 4
Gorman Di Wolfe 2

29 points. . .

This leaves me at 29 points after subtracting Haley's warjack points. The idea is to use Thorn (bonded) as a missile to intercept targets and provide an extremely mobile arcnode. The Defender is just a good generalised warjack that can get a couple powerful shots in before the enemy closes. The Cyclone can provide some really good anti-infantry support and still put up a decent fight in melee combat. Both the Defender and Cyclone really benefit from Temporal Acceleration. The Black 13th are mainly in the list to provide a good source for an assassination run and for some light jack kills.

I'm not sure what to do with the remaining 6 points. An additional Lancer is always nice but really not needed at this point level. Swordknights wouldn't be bad as a speedbump. I would like to fit in Jr. if at all possible but a solid infantry choice would be nice. Anyways lemme know what you think, oh and this is for an unnofficial tourney. . .

[Ninthplain]

What about adding a Longgunner group? Troop type with decent killing ability.

[veragor1206]

I like Longgunners however without a full unit I feel they lack the punch they need to do any damage. I had considered a full unit of Swordknights as a way to absorb some damage and keep a buffer between Haley and the enemy. They also can do a pretty good job of tieing up a mass of infantry or lone warjack. Unfortunately they too lack alot of punch even at a full unit. Any thoughts . . . ?

[EnternalVoid]

First suggestion, make the Defender your bonded jack. With the +2" he has an effective range of 23". 25" if you Telekensis him first. That means if you go second you could possible be shooting them on Turn 1, or if you go first possible shooting some AD on Turn 1. The second reason to make him your bonded jack is that you can then give him 4 focus. I had missed it at first but it seems that is the case for all bonded jacks *Check page 83 under epic warcaster bonding, says they follow all the bonding rules of page 246 except you do not roll on the bond effect.* On page 246 it says Bonded jacks can be allocated 4 focus. So with Temporal Acceleration and 4 focus you can get two fully boosted Defender shots for 7 focus. Now you could get this even if it was not bonded with Deadeye, but that would cost an additional focus for 8. On top of this it will help the Defender if you have to get it into combat and are trying to knock out the enemy's cortex before they can get swings back with full focus.

Thorn is fast enough on his own for Arcnode duty in my opinion as he has a 12" run and 3" from when you arc a spell through him. Not to mention 2" reach.

As for the last 6 points, it is a tough call. I would actually consider Steelheads possibly. As her deceleration spell just says Friendly model, not faction, it gives them a Defense 15 against range and armor 15. Sure that is less armor then Swordknights with defensive line, but Steelheads have both powerful charge and Set Defense. A defense 15 would help take that first charge and if they instead decide to sit and shoot you... well you have a Cyclone, Defender, and the B13th to shoot back. Ideally they would rather get in combat with you then get in a shooting contest.

To further support the Steelheads, they have a 11" charge when you need it, a 14" run and engage, CMA, and a basical P+S 11. Two of them charging and CMA would give an effective MAT9 P+S 13. You would also not have to engage the enemy with a jack like you would with the Swordknights to get accuracy and hitting power *swordknights needing flank to get it*. So lets say you have Widowmakers causing a problem. If you are in range to be shot, you are in range to run and engage them. On top of it anyone trying to charge in to help the Widowmakers will have the 15 defense due to set defense.

I would also consider if you do go for either Swordknights or Steelheads, dropping Gorman for Rupert. I know Gorman can give the B13th stealth, but it also means all 4 of the models are in a 3" AOE space. So anyone with Arcing fire and AOEs will be dropping them in that area. Boosted blast damage kills any of them. With Rupert you can give either your front line unit or the B13th some bonuses. Pathfinder when they need to get through a forest, Tough and Fearless to help survive a beating, or +1 defense and terror. With the +1 defense and deacceration you are looking at Defense 16 against range attacks, at that point Widowmakers on the move need a 9 to hit and even Longgunner have to start combine firing just to pick off individual models. It has been funny before with Steelheads having an elite unit charge them with the +1 defense only to realize they need 9's to hit *thanks to set defense and the +1 even 7's need a 9*.

The +1 defense and Deacceleration also could bump the b13th up to 18 defense against range if necesary.

With the swordknights and steelheads you can even run, engage a unit, and then lay down the Cyclone's templates on top of the enemy and such to give them a tough call. If they move, they get free struck, if they stay they might kill a swordknight or Steelhead, but will die to the Cyclone's cover fire. And anyone trying to charge in and help gets hit by the Cyclone.

And one more final evil note. Say the Steelhead/swordknights are engaged. You can have eHaley deadeye the B13th and them use Black Penny to shoot into combat picking off enemy troops to free up your own.

[veragor1206]

I like the idea of incorporating the Steelheads. It turns the list into a semi-denial list and could be very annoying to deal with for the opponent. Unfortunatly I do not own the Steelheads and will have to make do with a unit of Swordknights. Essentially the idea is the same as far as gameplay is concerned, the Steelheads are just a bit better at doing that job.

As for the Swordknights I can take a full unit for 6 points or a minimum unit with the unit attachment. I'm inclined to take the full unit, as I can't justify taking the unit attachment. . .

[TKaz84]

Unless you give them a jack to drive the UA really isn't necessary.

[EnternalVoid]

I would go the full unit. That way you can have three mini-triangles of 3 with an extra guy to tag onto the leaders. As defense-line is lost if there is nothing else in bsb having them in mini-groupings of 3 forces them to at least kill two before they can remove the last one's armor bonus. It also makes it easier for you to create little pockets that block line of sight.

[veragor1206]

Thanks I never really used them as tiny groups, I'll have to try that. Typically I always used the lancer in the middle flanked by Swordknights, I think Killionare coined that if I'm correct. . ?

^^^( )^^^ ( ) - Lancer
^^^^^^^^ ^ - Swordknight

[GunMageinTraining]

I would consider looking at a Min-SGs or Min-SBs + a SS.

I don't really know though, I don't normally take a Defender with Haley unless I have the ATGM module, two normal shots is good, but two rune shots is better. I'd almost consider downgrading it to a Charger, and grabbing a bonded Stormclad with the extra points. That's a mighty jack-bullet.

A/H + Rust Bomb could make a Cyclone pure death to jacks, but it's a lot of points and activations wrapped up into one.

[Brettman008]

The second reason to make him your bonded jack is that you can then give him 4 focus. I had missed it at first but it seems that is the case for all bonded jacks *Check page 83 under epic warcaster bonding, says they follow all the bonding rules of page 246 except you do not roll on the bond effect.* On page 246 it says Bonded jacks can be allocated 4 focus.

Wow, thanks! I never caught this.

[GunMageinTraining]

Really...

Interesting...

4focus Stormclad yay!

[kealda]

I may be wrong here, but you could get an additional two inches of spd and another shot if you cast temporal acceleration on the defender as well. Just pull an extra focus off the squire. (you did remember to bring the squire, right?) put four focus on the defender then use 2 for telekinesis then the last three for temp accel and you got 2 fully boosted pow 15's soaring 27 inches across the board directly into the face of an unsuspecting warcaster. Not sure if that works or not but it sounds good dont it?

[EnternalVoid]

I may be wrong here, but you could get an additional two inches of spd and another shot if you cast temporal acceleration on the defender as well. Just pull an extra focus off the squire. (you did remember to bring the squire, right?) put four focus on the defender then use 2 for telekinesis then the last three for temp accel and you got 2 fully boosted pow 15's soaring 27 inches across the board directly into the face of an unsuspecting warcaster. Not sure if that works or not but it sounds good dont it?

Yes it does work. I had forgotten to add the +2 from the Acceleration at first when I was posting my first post. The ability to move 9" from where the jack started then shoot twice with boosted to hit and boosted damage is pretty nasty. Sure a Butcher sitting on 4-5 focus is not going to sweat it much, but any softer caster will start to worry.

[veragor1206]

I proxied in the Cyclone last night and filled the list out with a maxed out unit of Swordknights. The list works pretty good, and resulted in a win against an EKreoss Exemplar themed list. The Defender was a nice tool to utilize and helped alot in taking down the Bastions. The Cyclone worked really well and took out all of his Holy Zeolots and managed to get a good charge in on the Avatar. The Black 13th were the stars of the show, as they eliminated the Choir and made attacking the opponents warjacks much more managable. The Defender with Temporal Acceleration was able to get a few good shots in on Kreoss after a successful Timebomb from Haley. To be honest the Swordknights used to be my favorite melee unit, but now they seem to be lacking and at best seem to make a good human shield for Haley. For now I will continue running this list to get some practice for an upcoming "unofficial" tournament.

On a side note, I learned not to underestimate the Bastions. They really are a pain and very tough to kill! EKreoss can also take some big hits before going down. The entire army he played with seems to get stronger as the battle goes on. I think the key to a win is to do as much damage as possible early on in the battle. This is what his army looked like (if I remember correctly). . .

EKreoss
Revenger

Avatar

Bastions (max)
Knights Exemplar
Holy Zeolots
Monolith bearer

Choir (max)
Seneschal

[veragor1206]

I have also considered running a unit of Rangers in order to mark targets for the other parts of the army. I worry however about the list becoming unbalanced and being to reliant on the ranged attack. The Rangers would make hitting alot easier and make it easier on Haley to utilize her focus elsewhere. It seems no matter how much focus a warcaster has you always need just one more. . .

[GunMageinTraining]

eHaley specifically, as she has such awesome spells...

[Paolo]

The bond mentioned on page 246 is part of an optional ruleset recommended for league or campaign play and not part of the core rules. So no four focus on both defenders and stormclads.

EDIT: Big whoops. I didn't see page 83. My bad!