pSorscha: Freezing Grip and Death Toll

[Hoc Est Bellum]

I was playing against Cryx at the weekend and something came up. I'm pretty sure we resolved it correctly, but I felt it best to check.

Basically, Bane Knights trundled up the field with Tartarus nearby. Sorscha, with help form Sylys, casts Freezing Grip, rendering all bar Tartarus Stationary.

Tartarus, with help from Darragh Wrathe, gets a charge off on my nearby Winterguard, Threshering two and adding two Knights to the unit.

Now, the issue was, are the new additions Stationary? The logic was that Freezing Grip affects the whole Unit, of which they are now a part. In the end we decided they weren't; FG had been cast and was not still in play, but it had caused lingering effects similar to Venom causing corrosion. These didn't apply to the new models because they weren't in play at the time of the casting. Is this correct?

The other, linked effect was him then trying to charge with the two new additions, which I said he couldn't do because the Unit Leader was currently a vaguely sinister ice sculpture and thus unable to give the charge order. Is this also correct?

Cheers!

[quindraco]

The new models should have entered play as stationary, because they were part of a unit with a spell on it making it stationary. The same logic, in reverse, applies in that if one of the Thralls was Influenced, it would stop being stationary while Influence resolved.

Had the unit leader been rendered stationary by a model specific effect (such as ice cage), then the Thralls would have entered play as you played it.

I do not have my rulebook handy, but whether or not a stationary model can issue orders would depend on what the stationary rule says. For example, knockdown does not prevent orders from being issued - stationary would have to say it turns it off. If stationary DID turn off orders, and the unit leader was stationary but the others were not, then the unit would indeed be unable to charge despite being able to advance and/or attack.

[hackrune]

I believe you're wrong, quindraco. You'd be correct if Freezing Grip was an upkeep spell, but it's an instant-effect spell. The target model/unit becomes stationary. Then, when more Bane Thralls are added to the unit, they are not stationary. The Unit Leader is incapable of issuing orders, obviously,(as per stationary, and note that being knocked down DOES prevent you from issuing orders, you can just usually immediately stand up and then issue the order,) but the added models would activate as normal beyond that.

[PG_ThatRickGuy]

Stationary models can not issue orders. So no matter what happens with those two thralls, they aren't going to charge.

Either they enter the game stationary, or they can advance their base SPD and make an attack if they are still in CMD range of the unit leader. No idea on which of those two, but charging is definately not an option.

-Rick

[trazor]

For example, knockdown does not prevent orders from being issued

"While knocked down a model cannot move, make actions, make attacks, cast spells, use animi, use feats, be used to channel a spell, or give orders and does not have a melee range."

"A stationary model cannot advance, make actions, make attacks, cast spells, use animi, use feats, or give orders."

[Ramses0559]

I think quindraco is talking about is that a knocked down model can forfeit to stand up and still give orders.

[Valander]

Stationary models indeed cannot issue orders, so no charge order for sure.

As for applying unit-wide effects on models added after the effect's initial application: checking to be sure.

[Valander]

If a unit is affected by an effect, then it applies to the entire unit for the duration of the effect. As added models from other abilities are still part of the unit, they enter under any effects that are currently on the unit.

So, in this case, the Bane Knights added should also have been Stationary.

(Side note: keep in mind that this would not apply to effects that state "while within" or "currently within," as those have their own unique conditions. This ruling would only apply to things that affect "unit" or "model/unit".)