Old Witch Tactics Brief

[IronIrony]

The Old witch is definitely a support warcaster considering her low stats in SPD, DEF and ARM as well as her relatively few hit points. She makes up for this and can actually be a powerful caster with her high FOC stat and Great Power. If she is run with the right army list she can pose a major threat even in tournaments.

When choosing your army it is important to keep in mind that the Old Witch lends herself to a unique playstyle that is different from most other casters in Khador. Units with Pathfinder and 'Jacks with ranged attacks are good places to start.

For her battle group the Decimator, Destroyer and Behemoth really shine. Augury is a great boon to these models especially if you can plot some woods tactically during set up. The Kodiak is another great choice because of Pathfinder and his all around solid design. The Scrapjack is an entity of its own and as such will be covered a little later in this post.

The Units that mesh well with the Old Witch's playstyle are a bit more lenient because of Weald Secrets. I would recommend the Iron Fang Pikemen with Unit Attachment because of their solid stats before even becoming Pathfinders with Camoflage.
The other units that shine with her are the Kossite Woodsmen and the Kayazy Assassins with their Unit Attachment. The Kossites may seem like a nefariously bad unit statwise but what you want them for is the Ambush.
Widowmakers make a good defensive screen in a woods with the OW and are also a great offensive tool when the time calls for it. Finally: The Great Bears of Gallowswood fit into Khador most lists easily and it's no wonder why.

Solos are pretty important with the Old Witch and as a general rule they should be similarly set up like the rest of your army. Meaning Manhunters and Yuri the Axe. Kell Bailoch can prove to be invaluable as well.

The Scrapjack will act as your Warcaster for many frontline needs. As an Arc Node with two weapons with Reach and being able to have up to four focus allocated to it the Scrapjack is not often easily trifled with. Add in Avatar of Slaughter and there are few infantry units that can stand up to a charge from this 'Jack. Do remember to be careful though, the Scrapjack is survivable but only as survivable as a light warjack. Use Prowl and Murder of Crows to your advantage.

Now that you know where to start with an Old Witch army list it's important to know some basic tactics with her as well. The Old Witch is very much a command from behind the lines kind of caster. The Scrapjack alleviates many problems of leaving her in the safety of cover or woods.

The other 'Jacks you choose will be best served as an assault force that needs to be dealt with by your opponent. This will probably mean that they will be the first things to fall or at least the first things to get beat up. This is ok because the real threat comes from those quick pathfinding units and solos that you are going to have flanking around the sides. The Kayazy Assassins are very deadly at this job considering their Stealth and high DEF score (improved by Iron Flesh). Ambushing Kossites also have a tendancy to throw a ratchet into the sockets of the enemy's game plan.

Your Widowmakers will be invaluable once the oppenent deals with the 'Jacks you jam down his throat as they will be able to pick apart most anything that is left. they are also very good deterants to assassination attempts on the Witch. Kell's Silence will deal with any incorporeal flankers. If these defenders fail to do the job do not forget the spell Unseen Path which will get her out of sticky situations. Field of Talons will also deter most advancing threats that make it around to flank you.

Remember to be adaptable. If one tactic doesn't work then vary it to suit your needs. Some armies will be very unit heavy. In this case Greylords and Doom Reavers may be a better solution than IFP. Or if you're going up against Corrosion heavy or Fire heavy lists then try out the Assault Kommandos.
Remember to be Creative. Use units and models in ways that your opponent won't expect. Take advantage of your strengths and your opponents weaknesses.

[Kambui]

Nice write up. I have a small Khador force as well as Cryx, and Cygnar. I have the Old Witch as my caster. This is good info , thanks.

[IronIrony]

No problem. I started off with the Old Witch because I thought the model was cool. I have a background in BattleTech where your army commander can usually lead from the front and I learned quickly the hard way that she was not that kind of a leader. If you have any other questions about the Old Witch I would be happy to try and help you out.

[Sam Lam]

What I had found to be useful with the old witch is kommandos.

With kommandos, they run up first turn and cover the 22" line, then old witch will cast iron flesh onto them. Second turn, the kommandos will move up 5" and shield wall. Forming 2 rolls, the second roll will fire gas into the first, forming a line of smoke that chargers will have to get through to get to them. This allows them to withstand anything that comes at them but for example, eKreoss's feat. DEF 17 in combat is very high for infantry.

However, I do find the worth of the juggernaut compare to the kodiak. When big threats come along, you need more P+S 19 attacks, not more P+S 16. Also, with most armies, you would need better strength then you need better utility. When those warbeasts come at you, you wish you have higher strength. With the juggernaut, you can output 4P+S 19 attacks a turn. Combined with the witch's high FOC value, anything goes down pretty fast.

However, I do see the good side of having 2 CC jack in comparison to 2 range jack. With range jack, it becomes very comsequential as to when the range attack will count. However, as your enemy will ALWAYS come with CC jacks, it is only reasonable to field 2 CC jacks in your second wave.

Now of course, the behemoth stands well and firm in situations like this since he can shoot very well AND swing really hard in combat. In fact, with 5 AP attacks, anything jack will go down, flat.

Although obviously if one fields one jack only, it would be reasonble to field something that can deal with a second heavy jack, or 2 light jacks. MOW comes to mind and I personally would take demo corp over shocktroopers since they're better as second wave.

Just my thoughts.

[PG_Finkmonkey]

It takes a little while to get use to her play style. I lost with her a good 5-10 times before I got my first win. She is a really fun caster to use. Now that Srapjack has reach it makes the Avatar of Slaughter even better than before.

When I play the Old Witch it seems that the Muder of Crows placement is such a major importance every turn. Make sure you block of those charge lanes or Ranged attacks.

I personally always use Gorman and a unit of Greylords with the Old Witch. I like having Gorman throw smoke on the Old Witch and I have a Greylord cast blizzard on the Scrapjack before Scrappy activates.

The old witch it a ton of fun.

[Malkav13]

The Old Witch is one of my favorite casters as well. I often use the Kayazy with her and Iron flesh. Lots of fun. Her new unseen path also allows scrapjack to be played much more offensively than he otherwise would be able to. Charge him into some infantry with Avatar of Slaughter up, let him go to work, and then teleport back.

[studderingdave]

i played her for the first time on saturday. i lost both my games but i really enjoyed her. granted my second game i got timed out on, but i really like how she can teleport with scrapjack, really makes her hard to catch. i took the behemoth with her, which i found invaluable.

[Emukt]

I made two game aids for Old Witch players:

Custom Murder of Crows template

4in forests for Tier 4 list

[Pezinator4200]

Those Forest Templates are pretty sweet. Those will look great on some hard card stock.

[Aries37]

I made two game aids for Old Witch players:

Custom Murder of Crows template

4in forests for Tier 4 list

Awesome thanks

[coolwhip1]

Solid write up. I don't own any Khador (soon to change, given an upturn in income), but my friend has just about every model for every faction and he's really good about letting people use his stuff. So I've been playing around a couple of Khador lists and I've fallen in love eButcher and the Old Witch.

Everything I've heard so far fits right in with what I've experienced with the Old Witch. Although, the Kommando idea I'll have to try out as sounds like it could be very devastating.

I would personally recommend running two Kodiaks and a Destroyer as your jack choices in 50 point games. I say this because the Behemoth tends to be a HUGE point sink compared to the others and he limits my access to the all-important solos. I've also tried throwing in Alexia and the Risen, and they performed quite well. They provide a recycling element that can be used as a very effective tar pit. Having said that I'd recommend this list as a sort of 'skeleton' for an Old Witch list.

Old Witch
-Scrap Jack
-Kodiak (2)
-Destroyer
Unit [10pts] (IFP+UA or AK+WA) *best
Great Bears
Widowmakers
Yuri
Solos [6pts] (manhunters, marksman, ect)

[PG_Deathraven]

Old Witch
-Scrap Jack
-Kodiak (2)
-Destroyer
Unit [10pts] (IFP+UA or AK+WA) *best
Great Bears
Widowmakers
Yuri
Solos [6pts] (manhunters, marksman, ect)

Agreed. Though one of of the solos should alway be Gorman for his smoke.

[Pezinator4200]

I would personally recommend running two Kodiaks and a Destroyer as your jack choices in 50 point games. I say this because the Behemoth tends to be a HUGE point sink compared to the others and he limits my access to the all-important solos. I've also tried throwing in Alexia and the Risen, and they performed quite well. They provide a recycling element that can be used as a very effective tar pit. Having said that I'd recommend this list as a sort of 'skeleton' for an Old Witch list.

Old Witch
-Scrap Jack
-Kodiak (2)
-Destroyer
Unit [10pts] (IFP+UA or AK+WA) *best
Great Bears
Widowmakers
Yuri
Solos [6pts] (manhunters, marksman, ect)

Great Skeleton List!

But I have to disagree with the Behemoth being a point sink. He's only 4 more points than the destroyer and you get a second bombard that ALWAYS fires. Plus two AP POW12 fists are better than 1 POW17 axe. I'd drop the Widowmakers just to take the Behemoth over the Destroyer.

[Intelligence3]

Theorycraft from a discussion at work yesterday: Use Gallows to pull a target to the Kodiak, throw to send that target to an assassin. Would that work?

(Edit: Sorry, Gallows, not Tow)

[Blackstaff]

[QUOTE=Intelligence3;311435]Theorycraft from a discussion at work yesterday: Use Gallows to pull a target to the Kodiak, throw to send that target to an assassin. /QUOTE]

You could, but the target will probably already be dead. No reason to not hit it with Smash and Grab at that point, if you can.

I use the Witch's big jacks to literally face off against their big jacks. I put a Devastator in their way to keep them off my back.

I have tried running the Kayazy into combat and then dropping Iron Flesh on them with great success. Don't kill the enemy; lock them down and set up an OW run. I get the best value from the Kayazy as a lock down force.

Hat tip to the Greylord Ternion; the Koldun Lord can save you a Focus by running your Devastator each tun as well. Battle Wizard isn't so bad either.

[Intelligence3]

One more question, she seems to scream out for 2 jacks because of focus, but her spells and abilities are very unit-friendly. Is one way or the other more apparent on the tabletop?

[PG_Deathraven]

I find she like to keep her focus, she has expensive spells that often need to be cast at the same time (eg gallows and unseen path). I take only 1 jack plus scrappy at 35 and at 50 I consider 1 more if it's something focus efficient like a Kodiak.

[Tsaimath]

well, the one thing i am completly missing in the write-up is the extreme mobility of the Old Witch
Due to Unseen Path and Gallows she can (assumed you slaugtherd yourself some souls last turn and took a hit on old witch) you can make your assasination from ~30' away... so old witch could start at her advanced deployment-zone and assasinate the enemy caster standing at HIS 12' line... (5' move, 14'+2' unseen path + 10' gallows)
also her feat and how to use it is missing. there are like 1000 ways to use her feat, you mentioned not a single one

just my 2 euro-cents...

[PG_Shadow37]

well, the one thing i am completly missing in the write-up is the extreme mobility of the Old Witch
Due to Unseen Path and Gallows she can (assumed you slaugtherd yourself some souls last turn and took a hit on old witch) you can make your assasination from ~30' away... so old witch could start at her advanced deployment-zone and assasinate the enemy caster standing at HIS 12' line... (5' move, 14'+2' unseen path + 10' gallows)
also her feat and how to use it is missing. there are like 1000 ways to use her feat, you mentioned not a single one

just my 2 euro-cents...

It is tempting to do an assassination run with her given her spells and abilities, but I would caution you when doing so. It takes a lot of focus to get the witch where she needs to be and to buff her to the point where she can hit reliably. When everything is said and done she does not have a lot of focus to pull off a reliable assassination run.

It's very rare that my opponent gives me the opportunity to get soul tokens with the Old Witch. If she is that close to enemy warrior models I may have done something wrong along the way.

[eddie]

It is tempting to do an assassination run with her given her spells and abilities, but I would caution you when doing so. It takes a lot of focus to get the witch where she needs to be and to buff her to the point where she can hit reliably. When everything is said and done she does not have a lot of focus to pull off a reliable assassination run.

It's very rare that my opponent gives me the opportunity to get soul tokens with the Old Witch. If she is that close to enemy warrior models I may have done something wrong along the way.

i disagree i delibratly go for the soul tokens. avatar of slaughter is much better on her and with the extra soul tokens you get plenty of options

[Jamie P]

Avatar of slaughter on the witch is fairly useless. If she is within 8 inches of an enemy model you may be doing something wrong. Forget the souls and use them as a bonus if it ever happens. Avatar is 100 times better on the scrapjack (and safer), it should only go on the witch if you face a jack heavy force and you are considering an assassination.

I'm taking the Old Witch to the UK Masters this weekend, I will let you all know how I do.

http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewto...p?f=22&t=72475

[Yentz]

Agreed with AoS going on the scrapjack. With Unseen path you can let the Scrappy mow through an infantry unit, then pull him back to do it again next turn.

And of course, if the Witch gets damaged, Scrapjack turns into a little engine of mayhem with AoS up.

[Jamie P]

5 wins out of 6 at the UK Masters peeps, all with the old witch I didnt even get to break out epic sorscha

OLD WOMEN ROCK

[Tsaimath]

nice, is your list somewhere on the forum? could you PM it to me with a short summary of your tactics?

[BENDER]

I've pinched his list from another forum. I'm sure he'll be happy to boast..erm..explain all about how he did so well:

Old Witch & Scrapjack
The Behemoth
Devastator
10 Winter Guard Infantry + 2x Rockets & Unit Attachment
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich
10 Nyss Hunters
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt
Gorman De Wolfe
Epic Eiryss

[Jamie P]

heh, thanks Si. I do write battle reports so when I've done those I'll link it to the khador section.

That list is accurate by the way.

[BENDER]

Sorry EJ, I assumed that you would need to sleep at some point and we all know how impatient these forum goers can be

[marskitten]

Gallows is unreliable with only one attempts. What I usually do is run OW, with a heavy charge unit like the Uhlans and take her with Reinholt and a koldun lord
Koldun lord gives scrappy a focus if he needs it to run.
Scappy takes popsition about 10 inches away from gallows target
Reinholt gives old witch lucky
OW Gallows and boosts once
OW Gallows again with lucky this time
Target moves towards SJ an average of 7 inches and takes 2 pow 13s before he gets charged.

[eddie]

im sorry buts thats a terrible idea to do with two gallows. That is gonna chew up all your focus in one go and only able to upkeep one spell. She is all about recasting spells or upkeeping a bunch. Also not a good idea to dump all your focus on just one target

[PG_TheEmu]

im sorry buts thats a terrible idea to do with two gallows. That is gonna chew up all your focus in one go and only able to upkeep one spell. She is all about recasting spells or upkeeping a bunch. Also not a good idea to dump all your focus on just one target

Pulling opposing caster to charge lane of, say, Great Bears sounds like seven focus well spent.

[eddie]

yeah it does, but what are the odds of your oposing warcaster being in the open and not behind some units?

i guess its really situational in the end

[Jamie P]

Personally I only used gallows a few times over the Masters weekend, it can be an awesome spell but you really have to pick your moments. The biggest use I got out of it was to pull a deathjack into charge range of a Behemoth with 3 focus on him Deathjack soon died.

[Intelligence3]

I'm looking at doing Kayazy with the witch. If I am also fiedling the Great bears, is there value in going max kayazy with UA? Or is Min generally sufficient?

[Yentz]

I'm looking at doing Kayazy with the witch. If I am also fiedling the Great bears, is there value in going max kayazy with UA? Or is Min generally sufficient?

Always Max if you can. More points efficient, and gets more milage out of Iron Flesh.

[Praetorian]

One of the nuances lost on first time Witch players is the sheer survivability of Scrappy. While, on the face of it, he doesn't have many armor spots (esp. compared to other Khador 'jacks) his allocation of critical components is wonderfully spread out. Because of the way his components are spread, its exceedingly difficult to knock Scrappy out of a fight early.

So, while Scrappy has the least armor boxes of any Khador 'jack, he is amazingly survivable. That survivability means you should play him aggressive and put him as far forward as possible (but still within the Witch's command range).

[Intelligence3]

Other than Grandmaster EJ kicking butt with a list taking Winterguard, I don't see them much with the Witch. Theoretically, they'd benefit from Weald Secrets if you have the right terrain, and Iron Flesh plus Bob and Weave might be valuable. Anything I'm missing? Mainly it's just that the alternatives are generally superior?

[marskitten]

I run a similiar list but with more melee orientation
Zevanna Agha, the Old Witch of Khador (*3pts)
* Behemoth (13pts)
Great Bears of Gallowswood (5pts)
Iron Fang Pikemen (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard (2pts)
Iron Fang Uhlans (Leader and 4 Grunts) (11pts)
Kayazy Assassins (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
* Kayazy Assassin Underboss (2pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan (2pts) or Koldun Lord

IFP run into gunlines, Kayazy run into melee groups with iron flesh. Corbeau is an interesting addition. She gives me the ability to purposefully soak a gunshot with sucker to give scrappy his protective bonus as well as intrigue movements to give her an 11 inch charge range to collect souls. Drag shenanigans are reserved strictly for high value targets. The entire army runs hard hitting with or without focus.

I'm thinking swapping out they kayazy out for WGR min w/ joe. Murder of Crows combined with suppressing fire really does a number of melee armies. Not that OW needs help murdering melee armies. Or maybe MoW DC

[frostaxe]

Just wanted to give my two cents on the witch. This model and I have had a hate hate affair. When I first got her, a long time ago, I gave her a few tries and just did not like her play style.

When MK2 came out I immediately gave up after reading some of the negative comments about her changes. All that being said my buddy talked me into playing her against him, for fun.

So I broke out the old witch not really knowing how to use her. I don?t recall my entire list but it was something like a dev., Kodiak, widowmakers, doomreavers, and some solo?s (one yuri for sure). As a side not yuri was killed without doing anything (this is the second time now..need to work on how to get this guy into combat).

My enemy was cygnar, nemo and fairly jack heavy. Black 13 and trenchers.

So what I did was spread out a good line of doomreavers with my jacks pressing forward and to the left flank. I waited for a jack to come into range and I ran scrap jack up, then arcnode-ed gallows pulling his jack into charge range of the doomreavers, pulled scrap back. Doomereavers then shredded his jack. I just kind of sat back at this point.

My next turn he had two more jacks in range of a scrape-jack-gallows-pull and I did the same thing again. This time I noticed that he would need to move his back lines forward if he wanted to move his front lines anymore (or be caught without focus) in the turns to follow. So I popped her feat.

Now this was my surprise as her feat really is great. It truly locked down his army, a few things took dmg. But this more importantly it stalled his counter attack. The next turn put his caster in range for another gallows and opened it up to numerous threats. I killed his caster right away.

My only complain with her is the d6 inches of gallows. Using it can be an expensive set up with a very random ?inches moved.? I was lucky and rolled four or more but a bad roll would have hurt. Overall I realized that she is a bit better than I thought and has many ways of winning. I did not really even get into her troops buffs from all the gallows, teleport stuff.

[Zenassassin]

You guys seem to be missing the fact that you can cast unseen path TWICE in one turn... send ole scrappy in to do his nasty with avatar on him (from the turn before since it's an UP). activate old witch, yank him back to her, cast avatar on her, charge another unit, do some serious damage and get some nice little souls, cast unseen path AGAIN to yank the witch back to the scrappy, cast murder of crows (if it wasn't already up) to keep things from doing bad things to her, pop her feat to ENSURE they can't get her, and then sit back and enjoy your opponent's frustration.

granted, this is a tricky tactic to pull off but definitely worth it

[Nickster]

Forming 2 rolls, the second roll will fire gas into the first, forming a line of smoke that chargers will have to get through to get to them.

Just watch out that you are not thinking the gas attack is a smoke cloud. It is not a smoke cloud so anyone can see through it. It will lower you enemies defense.