Another 35 pt Kromac list [noob]

[Thracy11]

Okay, so I laid out my "models to paint" for the 'Tale of' Challenge, but now I'm rethinking that -- why paint two Argus if I don't field them; why paint my Wolf Riders if I don't field them, etc (hypothetically, I mean). I realized after I had finished painting my second unit of Shifting Stones, Gorman di Wulfe, Sentry Stone, and half a Lord of the Feast, that I probably wasn't going to actually USE many of those models :P

PLUS, I'm thinking I want to start a small Cryx army on the side -- this will allow me to paint two armies for the challenge (potentially).

So, I want to lay out a list that I will start playing with consistently (one that isn't Kaya, that's getting old).

I have the first 30 points more or less set -- more or less, anyway.

Kromac the Ravenous -4
Feral Warpwolf 9
Gnarlhorn Satyr 8
Woldwarden 9
Min Tharn Ravagers 6
Tharn Ravager Shaman 2

Okay, so:
-the Warden and the Feral are pretty much required, IMO, with Kromac, and I'm set on using them. I added the Gnarlhorn because of his bounding + warpath synergy, but it could easily have been a Pureblood for a ghostly Warpwolf (since it doesn't actually have pathfinder).
-the Ravagers are there because they're Mat 11, P+S 15, reach, heart eating monsters. BUT they could easily be Druids for denial or Wolf Riders, neither of which is as hard hitting, but both good in their own way.

So that's the first 30. I have options for the next 5, and I want some feedback:

I'm torn a bit between a Lord of the Feast and 3 shifting stones (for the Warden -- and the Lord) OR a Woldwyrd (for denial, mainly, but also shooting).

I could also/either trade the Pureblood for the Gnarlhorn, and add an Argus (or MAYBE gorax -- hesitant to do this), or drop a heavy for a light and add more Ravagers/Wolf Riders.

Though I'm pretty enthusiastic about the 3 Heavy selection, I need some help on the units. I only ask because I want to start painting, and I dont get to play often.

[Jotun]

I'm just not that fond of the Ravagers at 35pts and less.

[Thracy11]

I feel that. What should I do, then? I want to stick with what I have for now -- Druids, Ravagers, Wolf Riders.

Any suggestions?

Also, can I ask why?

[Jotun]

I don't like them at 35pts and less because I rarely get much out of them. They tend to be killed far too early. There aren't enough targets on the board to draw away from them and they are fragile. In low point games I prefer to put Warbeasts out or use support troops like Druids, Shifting Stones, or Solos like the Lord of the Feast or the Totem Hunter.

You can only get your investment back from Tharn by running them to the front lines. Without enough other threats to draw away from them, they just die. Druids, at least, can be kept back and still provide you value. They can fish. They can add more counter magic. In a pinch, they can fight. Don't get me wrong. I think Tharn are fine models. I just get more out of them at 50pt+ games.

[Thracy11]

Well, I do HAVE Druids.

Kromac the Ravenous -4
Feral Warpwolf 9
Gnarlhorn Satyr 8
Woldwarden 9
Druids of Orboros 7
Shifting Stones 2
Lord of the Feast 3

34 pts. I have one point left over. Options: drop the Lord for a light (probably Argus), but then I'd worry about infantry. Take a War Wolf (ehhh .. ); take Swamp Gobbers. I'd have to buy either one of them, and I'd rather have the Gobbers, honestly. But with the Warden's animus, Kromac's rifts, and the Druids, I don't think I need more cover.

I could NOT take the Shifting Stones, but I think if I have the Lord, I may as well take them for their synergy with the Warden and fury management.

Thoughts?

++Edit++

What about dropping the Lord of the Feast for the Blackclad and the Druid Overseer UA? Gives more protection and utility to the Druids, and the Blackclad has arguably more utility for the army in general, plus it's not too shabby at taking out light units -- and it still functions with the Shifting Stones? Hunter's Mark + Bounding + Warpath + Speed warping makes for a 18" charge (unless I fail at math -- 6 base + 2 spd + 2" mark + 2" bounding +3" warpath +3" charge = 18" move)!

[Jotun]

Swamp Gobbers are a great way to spend a point and give you one more way to block LOS. Keep the Lord of the Feast, as he is a great anti-infantry option and really does divert attention. People are more scared of him than he warrants (and he warrants a far amount). Between the Lord of the Feast and Kromac and the Woldwarden spitting out Rift, you can deal with Infantry fine.

[meleemadness]

LotF has AD and stealth...he is awesome. I have used him to great effect. He is better than the White mane in my opinion only because he has stealth and AD so he can get to the enemy faster and safer.

I wish the White Mane was able to get into combat.....but he is too old. Anyway, I know you didn't mention him but I have used him with Kromac and my Ravagers but they always die to my opponents ranged units/solos.

[Thracy11]

I have the White Mane, and he seems on paper to be a better model murderer; but he's ugly as sin (or at least uglIER than the Lord).

Anyway, in the next two weeks or so I should be able to get at least one game in with the second list. I'd prefer to keep things in faction, but I guess one merc isn't so bad (plus -- every circle player seems to have them anyway).

Kromac the Ravenous -4
Feral Warpwolf 9
Gnarlhorn Satyr 8
Woldwarden 9
Druids of Orboros 7
Shifting Stones 2
Lord of the Feast 3
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew 1

Well, now I can start painting what I'll be using -- and I can start thinking about Cryx, too! Better go clarify my Challenge post!

Thanks guys!

[Calmorian]

I've been doing something similar as of late with mine.

Kromac the Ravenous +4
Feral Warp Wolf -9
Pureblood Warp Wolf -9
Woldwarden -9
Tharn Wolf Riders (3) -6
Shifting Stones -2
Lord of the Feast -3
Swamp Gobbers -1

I've also toyed with the idea of removing the Stones and upgrading the Warden to Megalith.

[Thracy11]

I actually thought about that too. Since I like the idea of the Warden so much, Megalith could only be better, really. For only 2 more points you get +1 POW, +1 ARM, +1 Fury, +1 MAT, Steady, Regeneration, and a -5 Def (!!) -3 SPD debuff on enemy targets. The only thing you lose is the Chain Attack slam, and Wild growth. Of course, you still get undergrowth, with is a 5" charge "denial", instead of a 4" charge denial.

When I put it like that it seems silly NOT to take Megalith!

[Jotun]

The Megalith doesn't let you create forests, just a large area of rough terrain. The ability to block LOS is more important in the lower point lists (in my opinion). You won't have that many models and any gun line will be able to concentrate fire. The Megalith is great but not in 35pts and below. A plain old Woldwarden fits the bill.

[Thracy11]

Yeah, I guess I didn't think about the loss of the LOS breaker. Good point.

Still -- not a bad option for later. Plus, I don't actually HAVE megalith :P

@ Calmorian: what do you use the Wolf Riders for?

[Calmorian]

I've been using them as an anti-infantry tie up or kill. Inviolable Resolve and you have a 15 Def 16 Arm unit with 2-3 attacks per model. They're also blindingly fast. 18" runs and 5" second moves so they're trivially easy to get into position where you want or need them. In the event I'd use Megalith, I'd probably shove the Wolf Riders into the faces of a Gunline with the run on the Wolf Riders, Large bases can threaten a good amount of them each, and shooting them with their Def 15 and Firing into Melee penalty isn't really safe.

[Thracy11]

*Puts down his copy of the Jan 29th update*
Okaaaaaay. So, lets try this again, shall we?

I still like Kromac, despite -1 MAT. I still like the Warden and the Feral, despite their minor changes.

But now I'm looking harder at the Pureblood, the Woldwyrd, and the Druid Overseer than I am at the Shifting Stones and the Gnarlhorn.

Kromac -4
Pureblood 9
Warden 9
Feral 9
Druids 7
Lord of the Feast 3
Shifting Stones
35 pts.

Do you think this list is as good as the last one? I'm happy losing the Gnarlhorn (even if I did just finish assembling and custom basing him), and I think I'd rather have the added utility to the rest of the army over the added utility to the Druids alone (who are going to be a primary target as it is).

But the loss of the Gobbers does hurt the Druids et al. That's my only real concern.

Thoughts?