Bethayne, Voice of Everblight, and Belphagor: A Guide

[Veebs]

Here is the Warlock that really drew me into the Legion of Everblight. I found she was severely lacking in the tactics section with her, despite plenty of awesome discussion that crops up about her from time to time. Here is a collection of my own experience with her and gatherings from what I've read other folks have said about Bethayne & Belphagor.

Bethayne, Voice of Everblight
Stats: Solid DEF. Pathetic ARM and Health, but can be mitigated by Meld Flesh. Above Average fury stat which is good since she’s a pretty good spellslinger. Very low Beast Points, but you get Belphagor for free.

Special Ability: Meld Flesh is probably her defining ability. Basically Bethayne can move B2B with Belphagor and merge into him making her much more survivable and more able to perform in melee while giving up some speed, DEF, and moving from a small to medium base. This ability is exactly why I chose to play this Warlock.

Weapons: 2 POW 10s with Cont-Corrosion? I guess that’s something, but she can be better in melee while melded (though it’s probably better to just stay off the front anyways.

Feat: Gives Hex Hunters, Blackfrost Shard, Sorc and Hellion high threat potential. Free animus use; that can mean a lot of extra attacks from your beasts.

Spells: Bethayne is a mix of a buffer and spellslinger with 3 upkeep buffs and 2 offensive spells. With Spell Martyrs, Belphagor, and a control area of 14” Bethayne can get some crazy good angles for casting spells.

• Ashen Veil: It’s often better on units, but can be really useful on Bethayne if she’s under threat and Belphagor is out of range. I personally prefer throwing this on my Hex Hunters since they’re often right up front where stealth can be negated, or opposing models can engage them. Other great targets for this versatile spell are our high DEF beasts.
• Blood Thorn: An alright way to deal with those pesky Tough models, essentially forcing them to make another roll at the start of their turn (assuming it sticks). Outside that see below for some other synergies.
• Carnivore: RFP cancels out Battle Wizard on Hex Hunters so be mindful of that. A great spell for pumping up the MAT of our heavy beasts. Also keep in mind that Power attacks are melee attacks, so when melded, B&B can make 2-handed throws at MAT 8. Not too shabby if the situation comes up.
• Eruption of Spines: Target your own beast for really high DEF targets. It’s somewhat unreliable, but still auto-hit on at least 1 extra target. All the extra hits are boosted on feat turn. I suggest using this spell to totally gut units on feat turn.
• Gallows: Unreliable, but higher damage than Eruption and has potential for some interesting movement tricks with spell martyrs or Belphagor.

Belphagor:
Stats: Higher ARM than even our heavy beasts. DEF is fairly solid and easily buffed with his animus. Plenty of hit boxes.

Special Abilities: Immunity to cold, fire, corrosion, electricity and Eyeless-Sight.

Weapons: With two POW 13 melee, he has a heck of a lot of power for a light beast.. He can also pull off free power attacks while melded, including 2-handed throws.

Animus: A little expensive for a light beast, but offers up a hard counter to single-wound melee infantry. I also find this pretty handy for blocking LOS to things behind the cloud effect and shoring up Belphagor’s defense with the concealment from the cloud effect.

Melding Tactics:

• First, activate with Belphagor making sure to use his animus. Then activate Bethayne, meld and still maintain Despoiler.
• Charge Bethayne at Belphagor, making sure to end the movement in B2B. You can cast some more spells after this movement, and then merge since it can be done at any time during Bethayne’s activation. This is handy as it can let Belphagor get just that little bit further from Bethayne, while still offering the protection of his armored hide.
• Melding can be used as fury management by running Belphagor hot, then merging to get rid of it. Be careful that you don’t run yourself dry of fury though.
• Although when channeling a spell through Belphagor you don’t benefit from eyeless sight, you can gain it when melded. It’s something that can catch opponent’s off-guard when they run their stealthy things up and think they’re safe, then BAM, EoS to the face. *Some notes about channeling spells and Eyeless Sight.*
• Since Belphagor is immune to both Cont-Corrosion and Cont-Fire, if Bethayne gains these effects, just meld into Belphagor and they go away.

Synergies
Beasts
Typhon: 3, 8” sprays with the Cont-Corrosion from blood thorn. Excessive healing animus while melded further bolsters the added survivability of a melded Bethayne.
Harrier: When melded, using True Strike on Belphagor has some potential for free, auto-hitting power attacks.
Seraph: With free power attacks while melded, check out this link on some slip stream shenanigans. Great guide on how to Slip-Slam with Beth by Nargacuga
Carnivean: Using Spiny Growth on Belphagor bumps him to ARM 21. On feat turn this expensive animus is free and really lets the Carnivean cut loose.
Raek: With Bethayne’s large control area means it’ll be a little harder to rocket out of range for those flying head-butts. Its animus is also handy, but really expensive for a light beast. On feat turn, this guy WILL get where he needs to be. The truly disgusting mobility of this beast also makes him a nice target for Ashen Veil if your opponent has a living caster (especially if it's not a front-liner). It is really easy to get him across the board and right in their grill to lay on that -2 to attack rolls and also be a general thorn in their side.
Ravagore: Between its animus and Blood Thorn his 3” AoE’s can be handing out Cont-Fire and Cont-Corrosion at a long range.
Angelius: Ashen Veil puts its' DEF up to annoyingly high levels, particularly for a large Warbeast.

Units
Hex Hunters: On feat turn fully boosted POW 13 hex bolts. Nuff said. I should also note that Bayal has a SP 8 magical attack which is also boosted on feat turn.
Striders: Cast Blood Thorn on these guys to really spread around that Cont-Corrosion.
Blackfrost Shard: More magic attacks for feat turn. Kiss of Lyliss also gets a boosted attack roll on feat turn.
Raptors: Ashen veil helps bump up their DEF or carnivore helps make sure their devastating charges hit.
Gatormen Posse: They get to ARM 18 while engaged on their own. Add in Ashen Veil and Dirge of Mists and they're 15/18 against living model. Adding Carnivore on them also allows them to hit even high DEF target much more reliably with the ability to re-roll to hit.

Solos
Spell Martyrs: Very nice to have in addition to Belphagor to really open up spell angles.
Sorceress & Hellion: Feating gives a fully boosted magical spray attack.
Forsaken: With Gallows and the potential of so many angles to cast it from while channeling through Belphagor or Spell Martyrs there are many ways to create openings for these small based blight bombs to maneuver through.

Major Strengths:

• Amazing synergy with any spell casting models. During her feat turn, things will die.
• Ability to swap between a high DEF, low ARM while un-melded; or melding and becoming a respectable DEF, very high ARM caster with plenty of hit boxes. Add in the ability to transfer damage and Bethayne is quite possibly one of our most assassination-resistant warlocks we have.
• Putting Spell Martyrs and Belphagor together with a spellslinger like Bethayne, and you have plenty of ways to threaten with magic from many angles at once.

Major Weaknesses:

• Any anti-magic lists can really put a crimp in Bethayne's plans. This really is her biggest and most crippling weakness, which keeps her from being a truly top-tier caster.
• Since Ashen Veil and Carnivore are only really effective against living foes, primarily undead (Cryx) or construct lists, can make her 2 best buffs useless. One benefit of this however is that you no longer have to make the choice between buffing/upkeeping, blasting away with offensive spells, or keeping some fury for transfers.

Any input/insights are more than welcome (blatant flaming aside) and I'll try to add/edit/revise things as time goes on and new things are unearthed and discovered. Just keep in mind this is my very first guide and it is by no means an exhaustive tactica.

[Northern Ronin]

Only good use of blood thorn aside backup for multi-wounders is an okay way to deal with Tough. "Oh gee you toughed, well, 70% chance to try that again next turn!".

I think you meant to say "True Strike is useful when free animus from the feat". I'd also add a notation in the blackfrost shard that she needs a way to increase Model Damage, and they're the only way (Ice Cage is nice too for army Hit Buffs). And that Ashen Vale Striders are pretty funny.

For Aching through Belphagor, you do get some parts of Eyeless Sight, mainly the targeting parts if I recall correctly (i.e see through clouds and forests). But look into it before adding, I'm not super 100% sure off the top of my head.

[Veebs]

Thanks for the catch. I did indeed mean that with the harrier. And that's a great idea for Blood Thorn. Added!

[Neutralyze]

gatormen should be listed as a unit. armor 18 with engaging with ashen veil and dirge of mists makes them 15/18 against living models. you can also carnivore thema nd use rerolls to hit very high defense targets.

[Chad]

My notes:

Her feat allows eruption to be a pretty major threat as well. The rules clarification http://privateerpressforums.com/show...in-Blast/page2 made this so. Not to mention the decently high POW Gallows.

Also, Ashen veil is fantastic on high DEF beasts with reach like the Angelius and Raek. Even MAT 8 troops can struggle against DEF 16+ without help. Free strikes from low to average MAT troops/jacks (5-6) still aren't likely to land. Ashen Veil is OK on units, but most units I'd bother to put it on have other means. Swordsmen might be the only other one you don't mention.

I wouldn't describe Belphagore as pillow-fisted. He's a light with two attacks at a decent P&S which is better than most lights. He's not a melee powerhouse, but then, few lights are.

You don't mention the Forsaken. Using Belphagore or a spell martyr you with a Seraph and a spell martyr, you have a lot of tools to manipulate your opponents position. With an open shot, you could bring a lot of Blightey pain from quite a distance. With a clear shot, the minimum potential distance for fully loaded Blight shroud is 15", with the max potential being 25" if you're extremely lucky, with the 'average' being about 20" (expecting about 3.5 on each distance roll). If you're cagey with your angelius, you can even extend that by another couple inches by repulsing in the back arc of your target (after, of course, you stab it with an AP attack). If you need to Gallows something out of the way you reduce your distance, but it's tricky nonetheless.

She is, it seems to me, our 'anti-assassination' warcaster, with her only major vulnerability CRAs or high P&W melee (few aren't vulnerable to this). While melded she's capable of being very hard to put down with good ARM, a variety of defensive animi, and refuting all elemental sources.

[PG_wonderboyz]

I have to say that she is one of those casters that I have not giving much time on the table. After Warmachine Weekend I intend on playing her to get a good feel for her. All of these is helpful to deciding how to build a list for her.

Thanks!

[Neutralyze]

just play her at WMW.

[PG_wonderboyz]

just play her at WMW.

Hahahaha.........I am bad enough I don't need to play a Caster I have no idea about to better my chances of winning less!?!?!?!

[Neutralyze]

im playing bethayne and kallus at WMW. they are both 2nd warlocks in my 75 pt dual caster event though. kallus and pthags then the other list is vayl and bethayne.

[PG_wonderboyz]

I have played one game with each of those and went bad for different reasons. Bethayne I lost horribly but I also did not have Hex Hunters yet and only BFS. Kallus I won but I played Maelok and the buff, debuff between both of us using our feat on the same round a mess of infantry surrounding Kallus was mind numbing. I was quite impressed how well Kallus could hang in heavy combat though. I guess I have played two games with Kallus because last night I played a 20pt Highlander against Gunnbjorn and managed to survive that massive fire to have the Scythean kill Gunnbjorn. It was a great game but I wanted to play against a gun line because I figure that will be the toughest list for him to face!

[Neutralyze]

gunlines are the toughest list for him to face.

[Seferon]

You may want to add in a section that shows what tier bonuses she gets for going tier and what the benefits of going tier with her is. I actually find her to be one of those warlocks that she plays in such a specific way that you may as well go tier with her.

Also, add in the link to the eyeless sight channeling thread. New people will greatly appreciate that when reading this. A example list section of a 35 and 50 point tier to non-tier would be nice as well.

[Northern Ronin]

You may want to add in a section that shows what tier bonuses she gets for going tier and what the benefits of going tier with her is. I actually find her to be one of those warlocks that she plays in such a specific way that you may as well go tier with her.

Also, add in the link to the eyeless sight channeling thread. New people will greatly appreciate that when reading this. A example list section of a 35 and 50 point tier to non-tier would be nice as well.

You likely shouldn't list what the tier bonuses are, because PP has stated they don't really want those flying around. Also, casters exist out of their tiers more often than not.

The link to Eyeless channeling however is a superb idea.

[Seferon]

You likely shouldn't list what the tier bonuses are, because PP has stated they don't really want those flying around. Also, casters exist out of their tiers more often than not.

The link to Eyeless channeling however is a superb idea.

Kind of seems pointless to not list the tier bonuses when you can just walk into a store, open a book and read them yourself. Whats the difference other then using gas to get to the place to see the tier. Oh well, if thats the way PP wants to be then thats fine i guess.

I know warlocks exist outside of tiers, but B&B is one of those warlocks that most stuff you would take is in her tier anyways.

[PG_wonderboyz]

I just believe that usually it is good to be able to shoot and have melee but Kallus seems to be good at just running up the table using his feat one turn before the assualt to help with the numbers that gun lines will inflict that round. Seemed to work anyways!

[PG_wonderboyz]

OOPS!!! I just realized I highjacked Bethayne's thread with Kallus sorry Veebs.

[Veebs]

Thanks for even more awesome input everyone! I'll add to the OP in the next day or so.

I totally agree with Jaster on not posting the Tiers, but I could mention that the tiers are often already achieved by going super magic-heavy with her lists anyways.

Just a checklist of things to add in:
-Link to channeling with Eyeless sight. I love this since it can be very confusing to deal with.
-Major Strengths and Weaknesses. One of the first things everyone talks about is her hard counters and I think that should be mentioned.
-Forsaken. I think I neglected adding them in since outside the unreliability of Gallows and channeling through Belph, they don't add any special tricks that aren't available with any other caster. Maybe I'll just add something to that effect though since they are jsut that awesome.
-Revisit Belphagor's melee ability. You're right, he's not really pillow-fisted; especially when comparing him to other light beasts or other non-melee assassination casters.
-AV bumping our more DEF based heavies into really hard a really hard to hit zone.
-Example lists. Not sure I really want to. IMO, the rest of the guide should give people a good idea of what her lists build like.
-Add Gatormen. I've always been kind of a faction purist, but man, the way Neutralyze summed it up makes them look amazing!

Thanks again for all the added insight. Like I said, I'm by no means an expert, but really wanted to get something resembling a collection of tactics for B&B. This has really been an awesome learning experience for me as well.

[Veebs]

Also: How would I go about getting this added to the tactica sticky?

[Northern Ronin]

Kind of seems pointless to not list the tier bonuses when you can just walk into a store, open a book and read them yourself. Whats the difference other then using gas to get to the place to see the tier. Oh well, if thats the way PP wants to be then thats fine i guess.

I know warlocks exist outside of tiers, but B&B is one of those warlocks that most stuff you would take is in her tier anyways.

You can always PM a Mod to double check and see the exact rule on it, but I recall it being a thing, I'd just rather not get a tactica thread locked over something silly like that. It's likely a bit of law behind it, since themes are made up only of information, and if you have that information without a single lick of trouble, then there is no reason to spend money, or some such.

[talquizar]

GatorMan Posse is a great use of carnivore makes them more accurate against the highest def things.

[Neutralyze]

i think ashen veil makes more sense on gatormen at first and then switching to carnivore after they are in combat for a turn perhaps. defense 15 on hte appraoch is nice. the hex hunter have stealth so dont have to be worried as much about getting shot up.

[maxvonlaibach]

How viable is she in tournament play? I plan to take either her or pThags alongside Saeryn to a 50 pts. tourney this month. I know she's difficult to assassinate, but how does she fare against a gunline? What are the tough matchups? I imagine that upkeep hate and anti-magic would be difficult, but other than that?

[Defenstrator]

I think she's fine, except if you see that they have a list that screws magic then you have to take your other one. Not for single list tournaments since she can get killed by their rock to your scissors.

[PG_Pszito]

I am a huge fan of this duo, despite their shortcomings! I really enjoy their unique abilities and focused synergies that allow you to play Legion a little more outside the box. Her flexibility allows for several game plans but certain match ups can be quite tough, some borderline impossible. She has a distinct learning curve and in the end it seems to come down to list composition; when accounting for her obvious specialty in magic attacks it is wise to bring other capable types of damage output, depending on meta.

Also, on a modeling note, hers is the first fully magnetized kit in the mainstream tabletop scene (to my knowledge). It goes together seamlessly and looks great as a finished product, although for almost purely ascetic purposes.

Thank you for throwing this write up together, Veebs! Cheers!

[maxvonlaibach]

Well, pretty much any warlock can be killed by that rock, I was just wondering which armies constitute it. I'm guessing that anything with huge warbeast/warjack threat ranges, but that's always a problem, and Saeryn can cope with them to an extent. Further, upkeep hate & general Menothyness, who are also difficult for both her and Saeryn to deal with (although the several arc nodes Beth's got could come in handy). Between despoiler and flesh meld, infantry should be struggling against her, but CRAs can be a royal pain. The likes of eVlad and eButcher are exceptions, but they'd probably end up facing Saeryn anyway. What about Haley, or Denny? Do I even stand a chance against any of them?

[Seferon]

Well, pretty much any warlock can be killed by that rock, I was just wondering which armies constitute it. I'm guessing that anything with huge warbeast/warjack threat ranges, but that's always a problem, and Saeryn can cope with them to an extent. Further, upkeep hate & general Menothyness, who are also difficult for both her and Saeryn to deal with (although the several arc nodes Beth's got could come in handy). Between despoiler and flesh meld, infantry should be struggling against her, but CRAs can be a royal pain. The likes of eVlad and eButcher are exceptions, but they'd probably end up facing Saeryn anyway. What about Haley, or Denny? Do I even stand a chance against any of them?

Haley and Denny are Saeryn's match ups. Heavy armor isn't a huge problem with beth as long as your opponent isn't taking nothing but beasts or nothing but 8 wound infantry. She can handle a fair amount of it but not a *** load. If you see that your playing against circle, then you may want to use a different warlock. If your playing against Menoth, expect ehrents ((i didn't spell that right but the guys with the cross bows)). They have banishing ward basically so you will have to handle them with charge attacks and not your spells. Other then that, you should be ok. Gunlines could be a bit of a problem unless your taking a carnivean and she is armor 21. Then your opponent wont be doing to much damage to her.

[maxvonlaibach]

Thanks for the comprehensive answer. I guess I'll leave Menoth to Saeryn and Druids to the Striders and Deathstalkers.

[PG_Pszito]

...They have banishing ward basically so you will have to handle them with charge attacks and not your spells. Other then that, you should be ok. Gunlines could be a bit of a problem unless your taking a carnivean and she is armor 21. Then your opponent wont be doing to much damage to her.

you can always target your own model with EoS and deal very easily with those pesky errants, mini-feating zealots, and paladins. double cast on a heavy/sacrificial trooper (i use my spell martyrs when i can't arc with them, i arc TO them ;-), especially on feat turn. Bethayne has a solid answer for just such occasions, you simply have to think outside the box a lil.

on the second, bethayne can either easily get to a respectable def 19 vs ranged (ashen veil/despoiler + tenacity not mentioning cover/elevation) or jump up to a super armer, tons-o-wounds, immune to all elements warlock by melding after she's done slinging her spells around the board, depending on what kind of gun line you're dealing with. if they're all true sight/eyeless sighted (caine, vyros, lylyth, etc etc) then i'd go with the armor. if they're a raw dude/jack-line firing squad I would gamble with high def and transfers. add in her anti-troop, gallows-assassination and she's got an answer for a lot of gun lines as well, not to mention her core troops are speedy stealth guys. Sure, she's no eLylyth but she's got a decent game plan. food for thought.

[Seferon]

you can always target your own model with EoS and deal very easily with those pesky errants, mini-feating zealots, and paladins. double cast on a heavy/sacrificial trooper (i use my spell martyrs when i can't arc with them, i arc TO them ;-), especially on feat turn. Bethayne has a solid answer for just such occasions, you simply have to think outside the box a lil.

on the second, bethayne can either easily get to a respectable def 19 vs ranged (ashen veil/despoiler + tenacity not mentioning cover/elevation) or jump up to a super armer, tons-o-wounds, immune to all elements warlock by melding after she's done slinging her spells around the board, depending on what kind of gun line you're dealing with. if they're all true sight/eyeless sighted (caine, vyros, lylyth, etc etc) then i'd go with the armor. if they're a raw dude/jack-line firing squad I would gamble with high def and transfers. add in her anti-troop, gallows-assassination and she's got an answer for a lot of gun lines as well, not to mention her core troops are speedy stealth guys. Sure, she's no eLylyth but she's got a decent game plan. food for thought.

I was actually saying that she should fair fine against gunlines. I like the high armor and decent defense route rather then the high defense. My local meta tends to have a good amount of knockdown, so i favor high armor more then high defense when it comes to gunlines. Either way is effective though.

The comment on the errants wasn't about beth herself, but more about her force. Hex Hunters and party can't cast spells onto the errants. Thats what i was referring to.

[Chad]

Well, when facing CRAs, I'd rather have a solid ARM value than a solid DEF value. The only value in a high DEF is when you can avoid the attack altogether. You could argue that she can sit back farther, and she can - but even with tenacity up and in cover - she's a DEF 21 - if you're facing a sniped Longgunner CRA - which has a single shot mobile threat range of 23", which can also have deadeye if it needs it - DEF 21 isn't going to be all that fantastic against a RAT 17 POW 21 CRA. She'll take 9 points before you even roll the dice. An ARM 21 Belphagore (carni animus) limits the damage she'll take. Of course, you can also use Belphs animus or gobbers to prevent LOS. Generally though, they'll only get one shot before they start taking fire and losing numbers.

Bethayne isn't invincible, she's just better than most at refuting damage and assassination. A Neph protector helps quite a bit.

[Northern Ronin]

you can always target your own model with EoS and deal very easily with those pesky errants, mini-feating zealots, and paladins. double cast on a heavy/sacrificial trooper (i use my spell martyrs when i can't arc with them, i arc TO them ;-), especially on feat turn.

To help keep this focused on new players and Bethayne, to avoid confusion to them, you cannot arc an offensive spell at the model channeling it (While I don't think that's what your saying here, just making sure new folk get that).

[PG_Pszito]

Understood, Seferon. I was trying to elaborate and show what can be done if you're dealt that kind of hand.

A good clarification, Jaster. Often I'll chain it having martyrs run into position, Belphagore mid-field within spell range of the martyrs, and Bethayne sitting happily back away from all but the longest of threats.

And sitting on a high def can make all but the most focused shots, ie:buffed/cra/ranged auto-KD, unviable and she can anticipate the need for a few transfers for those such shots. A protector doesn't go amiss if you're anticipating strong ranged matches as well, being able to take specialized ranged shots, transfers, and prevent prevent KDs.

[onibaloney]

Doesn't Belphegor's animus expire when Bethayne merges with him? I thought it would only be in effect if Bethayne cast it pre-merge.

[Defenstrator]

No, he just can't cast it once they're melded. If he cast it already it doesn't expire.

[Veebs]

I made some edits to the OP addressing some fantastic ideas mentioned here.

[PG_Pszito]

to the best of my knowledge belphagore can use his animus pre-meld and it will not drop off so long as bethayne does not have an animus on her at the time of melding. Considering that belphagore drops fury on meld, this is a great way to save fury while still having a defensive animi up.

depending on board positions I will typically activate belphagore, pop despoiler, fake charge (declare a charge to something I know he can't reach) to an ideal arcing/defensible position, then activate bethayne, pop spells through him (barring martyrs) to see what damage she does (being both offensive spells are random), then I can either charge the back of belphagore to meld, move back to a safer position, or move into the shadow of the cloud (in or behind). Generally I plan on melding if I push him to 3 for no damage output, unless I want to risk overloading a beast elsewhere or if I think belphagore is going to get pasted (which i don't mind, being he's our free super-tough light).

[onibaloney]

After rereading the Flesh Meld for the 108th times, it looks like I've been playing her slightly wrong. Thanks for clearing that up.

[SoulReclaimer]

The NAGA as a Beast to include should now be added.

[Veebs]

I will definitely consider adding in the new stuff, but the book hasn't even been released yet and we're not going to actually see the models in the near future. But definitely once they're out and some actual table time has been put in with them, then I'll add them in.

[Obeisance]

Question regarding Despoiler.

I assume that it doesn't function the same as Blightbringer?

ie;

Belphagor walks and casts Despoiler. Enemy models in the AOE do not take damage.
I assume this is true if say, he's pushed or Slipstreamed so enemy models are in the AOE.