Witch Doctor - a gatorman solo

[iveysdad]

i can't wait to throw him in with my skorne. the witch with cataphract cetrati in a xerxis list will be sick.

[jdelrio22]

Is that all that gators are getting?

1 lock
2 beasties
1 solo
?

[Radish]

Yeah I'm not super impressed since they needed something to crack armor and instead got a mediocre, lower end strength heavy with a decent animus that gives reach in a faction where 90% of everything has that already and a solo that other factions will use better than we will. Oh well at least I don't need to buy anything new.

[MagnustheJust]

Yeah I'm not super impressed since they needed something to crack armor and instead got a mediocre, lower end strength heavy with a decent animus that gives reach in a faction where 90% of everything has that already and a solo that other factions will use better than we will. Oh well at least I don't need to buy anything new.

I'm sorry Radish, but if you can not see the possibilities with the new shinies the Congregation is receiving from Domination, you just might be playing the wrong faction...

The models being added to the Blindwater forces are going to let us pull some crazy good all-new shenanigans to make the mamby-pamby cake eaters cry more over how good "De'm Gator Boyz " play!!

[studderingdave]

Yeah I'm not super impressed since they needed something to crack armor and instead got a mediocre, lower end strength heavy with a decent animus that gives reach in a faction where 90% of everything has that already and a solo that other factions will use better than we will. Oh well at least I don't need to buy anything new.

man, this is the second post of yours i have read in 2 minutes that has you complaining. why are you being such a debbie downer?

just enjoy the releases, get some table time in before you start complaining, and if you don't like the faction, switch to another.

[bakaryu]

Basically the Witch Doctor is made for Maelock. Feat gives incorp and every undead model get's +2 ARM, you can't really go wrong there. Sac strike with gators certainly won't be spammed, but nearing end game I'll be more than happy to make a caster eat a POW 16, then revive my posse and cut their throat.

Sac Strike ammo is removed from play, so Revive won't work I am afraid

[TinRobot]

I think the Witch Doctor will make Bog Trogs viable for front line use instead of ambushing. Giving them Undead and tough I think makes them survivable enough to be deployed up front. So now we can have a cheaper meatshield in front of our posse so they dont have to take the brunt as much. Remaining bog trogs can make their attacks and then get sac'ed to clear the way for the gators to move in.

Im not sure how good this will be in practice but I'm more than willing to give it a try and test it as much as possible.

[MagnustheJust]

Bog Trogs actually are decent frontline troopers, becoming effectively MAT 8 on the charge and having pathfinder.

[Watchtower]

man, this is the second post of yours i have read in 2 minutes that has you complaining. why are you being such a debbie downer?

just enjoy the releases, get some table time in before you start complaining, and if you don't like the faction, switch to another.

No one likes a negative nancy.

[MagneticFreak]

In principle, if the Swamp Horror does a weapon lock, does he is still able to attack with his beak?

[Radish]

man, this is the second post of yours i have read in 2 minutes that has you complaining. why are you being such a debbie downer?

just enjoy the releases, get some table time in before you start complaining, and if you don't like the faction, switch to another.

Fair enough. I just don't understand the excitement so I'll continue with my previous army lists and work a single witchdoctor and maybe a boneswarm into Maelok's.

[PG_fildrigar]

In principle, if the Swamp Horror does a weapon lock, does he is still able to attack with his beak?

By spending Fury for additional attacks, yes. To perform a power attack you give up all of your initial attacks.

[Halfhoot]

You guys aren't seeing what the Swamp Horror will do to shield wall units. Having trouble with Centrati? Swamp horror will kill half the unit in one activation... easily.

Don't think the witch doctor is good?? Guys... we have flying gators. Those flying gators can threaten up to 19" with Barney and Swamp Horrors now. 19"... think about that. That's with 2 different direction changes and one part being over the heads of anything smaller than a large base. Now throw in the fact that a running solo can allow that up to 19" crazy thrown, reach wielding Wrastler can now be forced without your caster... Yea... yea that's going to happen right there. And people are going to weep.

Oh yea... and a 4 point beast that can stand in front of 2 iron fleshed, tough, undead Posse and make them 18 DEF against melee while they can't be targeted by ranged? Yea... Just terrible... nobody will ever find a use for that...

[blackbeardfreelance]

The theme is groovy. But I want to know what the witch doctor looks like.

I agree. Has anyone seen the model yet?
I'm really getting a Baron Samedi vibe on this one and think I'll be adding a hat and some skull white paint if he doesn't come with something cooler on his head already.

[MagneticFreak]

Wrong eye would have been perfect to fit the role!

[studderingdave]

i am gong to work inside the confines of the maelok tier, prolly just up to T2, i dont know if i want to run 2 doctors in the list. anyone have an inclination for T4. 3 boneswarms seems like a lot.

[thag-rush]

I'm certainly going to give T4 a shot. I've got the boneswarms for it so I may as well.

[Reuben]

Finally! Being able to go up against Cryx and not weep because I have to leave all my cool toys at home! Plugs a gap, for sure...

[Sellsword]

I am loving this one, sounds like it's right up my alley

[Darkness is Rising]

Ugh. This is going to hit Cryx like a bombshell. Now every single Hordes faction is throwing out undead and tough on their best units willy-nilly, for a paltry cost. So now their infantry maintains all their stat advantages and cool special rules, while taking the best of Cryx's infantry's rules.

Yeah, this is going to be a priority target in every battle for me. I don't care if I have to sacrifice an arc node to kill it - it'd be well worth it.

[Watchtower]

the best of Cryx's infantry's rules.

Yep, the WD hands out Stealth, Weaponmaster, free stand up, Dark shroud, the ability to create more and curse. Right.

[Darkness is Rising]

Yep, the WD hands out Stealth, Weaponmaster, free stand up, Dark shroud, the ability to create more and curse. Right.

Occultation. Every Hordes faction already has weaponmasters that can now be undead and tough. Point. Point. Tartarus' ability to create more is totally nullified by this. Buffs.

Also, as I pointed out, our undead troops have crappy stats to make up for these abilities, whereas these newly undead troops retain all their prior abilities and stats. For example, Xerxis Ceterati brick maintains everything that makes it good but is now also tough and undead.

Furthermore, two of these guys reduce Terminus' feat to a joke unless you can kill them both the round before you pop it.

[phreaker187]

Yup Occultation on our worst caster is great.

Who do the gators have that are weapon masters? That's the whole problem with gators, they hit like girls, and not the tough "softball player" types.

When factions besides Cryx and Legion start winning big tournaments then you can complain, up until that point save your tears.

Gators bathe in the tears of Cryx players! YAR!

[Reuben]

Where's my gator weapon masters? Orboros only has ranged weapons afaik, which only mitigates the lack of a charge bonus and lacks armour cracking ability. Skorne and Troll weapon masters are way more expensive than cryx' options. Farrow have highly conditional weapon masters with no max unit option.
Cryx has got a long way to go before their loot is considered grabbed.

[Cannibalbob]

Sac Strike ammo is removed from play, so Revive won't work I am afraid

It works in the opposite order though. Revive a gator, hit the enemy, then blow up the gator.

[talquizar]

I would probably use it more on a flaking unit of bog trog ^_^ much cheaper and you lose less armor and health. :O 2 WD and 2 min units of Bog trog ready to pop your opponent will have no idea what to do and it would only cost you 16 points and in a 50+ game thats not much and the affect would be devastating!!

[Brandubh]

Ugh. This is going to hit Cryx like a bombshell. Now every single Hordes faction is throwing out undead and tough on their best units willy-nilly, for a paltry cost. So now their infantry maintains all their stat advantages and cool special rules, while taking the best of Cryx's infantry's rules.

Turnabout sucks, doesn't it? Now Cryx players will know how everyone else who relies on facing living models feels.

[Darkness is Rising]

Turnabout sucks, doesn't it? Now Cryx players will know how everyone else who relies on facing living models feels.

You still get decent stats and ranged units - which Cryx lacks. And in this, I'm more referring to the main Hordes factions, not Minions - I think this benefits them more than it does gators.

I already knew how it felt. I play Gators, in addition to Cryx and Skorne.

[Cannibalbob]

It is a very nice minion to take with the main hordes factions, but he can't affect too many units at once. At 3 points each you will probably see 1 of them in the main factions, and a single undead/tough unit is not that overly hard to deal with - especially when the source comes from a solo that is not overly difficult to kill.

A good solo minion for people to take? Sure. Something insane that trumps the whole Cryx faction? Nope.

As far as 3 point solos go, the Thrullg adds an ability that is overall more useful to Hordes in general - and the use of that solo is not that overly prolific.

[Darkness is Rising]

It is a very nice minion to take with the main hordes factions, but he can't affect too many units at once. At 3 points each you will probably see 1 of them in the main factions, and a single undead/tough unit is not that overly hard to deal with - especially when the source comes from a solo that is not overly difficult to kill.

A good solo minion for people to take? Sure. Something insane that trumps the whole Cryx faction? Nope.

As far as 3 point solos go, the Thrullg adds an ability that is overall more useful to Hordes in general - and the use of that solo is not that overly prolific.

Hmmm... perhaps my "Dooooooom!" was premature. Still, I'll have to take this into consideration whenever I build a list to face Hordes. And of course I'll have to acquire a pair ASAP for my Skorne and Gators.

[Radish]

Yeah I think people are overestimating the usefulness of this guy by a lot. Not to say he isn't good but the "adds so much to the gator faction!!" seems very premature. I'm going to try and work one in to my lists for the beastmaster and occasional sac strike but he's definitely not ahead of the present solos in terms of importance.

[Cannibalbob]

Yeah I think people are overestimating the usefulness of this guy by a lot. Not to say he isn't good but the "adds so much to the gator faction!!" seems very premature. I'm going to try and work one in to my lists for the beastmaster and occasional sac strike but he's definitely not ahead of the present solos in terms of importance.

You will see him in Gatorman lists a lot, especially Maelok lists. I expect you will see him outside of Gatorman armies here and there - but only for specific lists I imagine. Tough and undead is nice, but unless you have a specific plan that he is a part of there is not really a huge benefit for those 3 points and they can easily be spent elsewhere.

[TheLoki]

Nothing stops the Dr from giving Posse Tough and undead while the SKorne taskmaster gives them +2 str. Just want to point that out as a possibility.

[Cannibalbob]

Nothing stops the Dr from giving Posse Tough and undead while the SKorne taskmaster gives them +2 str. Just want to point that out as a possibility.

Yup. But as I said, you will mainly see him outside of a gator army for specific purposes. Not all, or probably even most, Skorne lists are going to go heavy on the minions. Skorne has a lot of good stuff in their faction. Some lists will have the taskmaster and minions, and those lists will probably pack the Witch Doctor. Some other lists might bring him along with other stuff, but I doubt he is going to be a solo that makes his way into most hordes lists just because. If you see him in a list he is probably there for an express reason.

[Terraneaux]

Also, as I pointed out, our undead troops have crappy stats to make up for these abilities, whereas these newly undead troops retain all their prior abilities and stats. For example, Xerxis Ceterati brick maintains everything that makes it good but is now also tough and undead.

Yes, but a 3 point solo to do that? You're definitely paying for it. Unless it's in a gator tier. But the Gatormen posse is amazing, we knew that, and now they're even better.

And while undead have lower stats, it's often in ways that aren't particularly hampering. Sure, Mechanithralls have really bad MAT, but their damage output is really high, and they hit def 10 warjacks fairly easily, and are one of the cheapest units in the game. When a 5 point unit is a threat to an 8 point 'jack, you know you're getting your points worth. And high arm units with stealth are really, really good due to their ability to shrug off blast damage.

Furthermore, two of these guys reduce Terminus' feat to a joke unless you can kill them both the round before you pop it.

Try playing someone like pKreoss against another Menite army with the Covenant, or something. Feats run into problems all the time.

[Darkness is Rising]

Yes, but a 3 point solo to do that? You're definitely paying for it. Unless it's in a gator tier. But the Gatormen posse is amazing, we knew that, and now they're even better.

And while undead have lower stats, it's often in ways that aren't particularly hampering. Sure, Mechanithralls have really bad MAT, but their damage output is really high, and they hit def 10 warjacks fairly easily, and are one of the cheapest units in the game. When a 5 point unit is a threat to an 8 point 'jack, you know you're getting your points worth. And high arm units with stealth are really, really good due to their ability to shrug off blast damage.

3 points for Tough and Undead is a fair bargain in my mind, particularly on already brickish builds like Xerxis. I'd pay for it if Cryx could hire it. Then I'd drop it on Nyss Hunters. (Ye gods, I can just see one of these with the Nyss under Jarl: SPD 9, Tough, Undead Weaponmasters with Hunter and CRA. Meep. Only problem would be keeping him up with them.)

And what happens when the opponent brings high DEF infantry, like the Winter Guard Death Star or Kayazay? The thralls get slaughtered by the boatload.

Try playing someone like pKreoss against another Menite army with the Covenant, or something. Feats run into problems all the time.

Point.

[Corpazious]

Terminus hates Rhupert. Now Terminus hates the Witch Doctor as well.

But since I also play Circle and will probably start playing Gators...... WEEEEEEEE!


...... but seriously, giving Tough AND Undead to all Hordes Factions is BROOOKEN!

[Terraneaux]

3 points for Tough and Undead is a fair bargain in my mind, particularly on already brickish builds like Xerxis. I'd pay for it if Cryx could hire it. Then I'd drop it on Nyss Hunters. (Ye gods, I can just see one of these with the Nyss under Jarl: SPD 9, Tough, Undead Weaponmasters with Hunter and CRA. Meep. Only problem would be keeping him up with them.)

The problem here is not Zombify. The problem is Nyss Hunters. Nyss Hunters + Zombify is good, but Nyss Hunters + Ham Sandwich is pretty good too. Because then I'm not hungry *and* I'm running Nyss Hunters in my warmachine army.

And what happens when the opponent brings high DEF infantry, like the Winter Guard Death Star or Kayazay? The thralls get slaughtered by the boatload.

Definitely true. But those units normally cost dramatically more points than a 5-point McThralls unit, and often more than a Bane unit. Not saying Cryx infantry is overpowered (it has its achilles's heels, i.e. russians), just that there's a bit of rock-paper-scissors going on.

[Jestor]

Darkness - I think you really live in a box or are trolling here Cryx has accurate units, Cryx has weaponmaster units. Cryx has a solo that not only is a killing machine, but can also make the weapon master units hit reliably on anything but the highest defense casters. Are you really complaining about tough and undead? Terminus now only gets 20 focus on feat turn instead of 30. Aw, I feel for ya. So you don't take Terminus when facing Hordes if you see a list with the Doctor in it. It's the same as if you were facing another Cryx army or an all jack army, you don't take your Terminus list.

OMG Gorten makes Barnabus useless!!!!11111!!!!1!!!11one!!111! Gorten should be removed from the game or Barnabus should be made more powerful!!!!!!!

[Decade]

I think PP made the WD for the express purpose of shutting everyone up about Cryx having a monopoly on undead.

As a Cryx player, I know we've got a few nice solutions to tough undead models. One is a blood hag. Stalkers are another. Bile thralls do a good job taking down the WD's undeadified unit if they're single wound, because they don't get tough when corrosion goes off. With the exceptions of Terminus, Deathjack or my Harrowers, I'm not too concerned about gathering souls, and while I can't deathtoll a unit that's been made undead, I can still kill em with banes. Heck, kill the WD with an arced spell or Harrower shot and the problem's dealt with. And if the WD casting his spells is such a concern, bring Orin Midwinter. Its not like he's a bad solo to bring to begin with.

Is it going to be annoying to deal with him. Yes. Is it an insurmountable obstacle. Not really.