15 Point Mangle Metal Ossy or Garryth

[Steamroller]

Can anyone help me out with some 15 point MMM lists for these two casters.

[NEoJoe]

Play Rahn.

Otherwise... 15 makes it kinda rough. Ossyan would do okay with Discordia and Phoenix for 14.

Garryth can do the same, or Disco/Phoenix, Gorgon and Griffon.

Ossyan wants a Sphinx for Disco, Sphinx, Griffon.

[Fobos13]

nonono
dont take Rahn on MM.
Take Vyros, Kaelyssa, Garryth - not Rahn. He just need battlemages.

Dawnlord Vyros6
Phoenix10
Phoenix10

[NEoJoe]

The hell he does. Slamming jacks into casters is Rahns middle name. He can do fine with only himself and robots. Promise.

[Mastershake]

The hell he does. Slamming jacks into casters is Rahns middle name. He can do fine with only himself and robots. Promise.

He really doesn't. After you get done with all those cool tricks Rahn doesn't have any focus left to allocate. Most games he's just a focus battery that occaisionally TKs a jack for extra threat range or he waits for the enemy caster to spend focus and goes for a spell assassination.

Rahn just isn't a MM caster. Kaelyssa does well enough mostly as a focus battery that also has a feat and Witch Hound, Vyros really just has Mobility and Birds Eye which is pretty underwhelming since Ret heavies generally don't kill enemy heavies with 3 focus unsupported, Ravyn can fake the funk a little between the feat and Vortex to increase focus efficiency but MM isn't where she wants to be, Garryth can shut down WM armies for a turn in MM and with so few models avoiding the Arcane Assassin hand cannon assassination is legitimately difficult but still doesn't buff much. Ossyan I haven't tried in the format, seems like he could do well since Admonition works better against low model counts and his gun also seems more viable.

Overall I'd Kaelyssa and Ossyan are probably the MM pair.

[NEoJoe]

Sounds like we're not talking about the same Rahn.

On my phone now and the intricacies are plentiful. Will explain when I can.

[Mastershake]

The Rahn who likes to spend 6-7 focus a turn on spells? Yeah, that's the guy, there aren't any nuances here, it's not like his feat does anything other than more spell casting and it doesn't leave much focus for jacks.

[Murkhadh]

I've done quite a bit of mangled Metal over the past few months, Rahn is terrible in the format. He sits around doing nothing or he casts his spells and the jacks do nothing.

Kaelyssa and Ossyan are our best two. Both of their feats do something in the format. Rahn's not so much.

Kae doesn't have many spells she has to cast in this format, so she does fine being a battery.

Ossyans gun can usually hit w/o boosts so he can do something too, as well as upkeeping one of his spells. 2 fully loaded manticore guns on his feat turn kills a jack on average rolls. which is cool if you tagged the other jack with the gun, now you've made one of them not be able to reach you, and killed the other.

[NEoJoe]

The Rahn who likes to spend 6-7 focus a turn on spells? Yeah, that's the guy, there aren't any nuances here, it's not like his feat does anything other than more spell casting and it doesn't leave much focus for jacks.

I count two flaws in your thinking: your indication that spellcasting is bad in MM and the strawman argument about his feat.


You're welcome to try again, however, while I still only have my phone.

[Murkhadh]

I count two flaws in your thinking: your indication that spellcasting is bad in MM and the strawman argument about his feat.


You're welcome to try again, however, while I still only have my phone.

its not "bad" but you can cast your spells OR run your jacks with rahn, you can't do both.

[Fobos13]

2 NEoJoe three versus one. you turn to try again with arguments.
At least - do you played Rahn on this type of tourney?

Ossyan looks great, but something stops me to take him. Maybe that i have no manticores =)

[Mastershake]

I count two flaws in your thinking: your indication that spellcasting is bad in MM and the strawman argument about his feat.


You're welcome to try again, however, while I still only have my phone.

I didn't say it was bad, reading comprehension time, I said it "doesn't leave much focus for jacks." In a format where you don't have Arcanist lying around the shortcomings of most Ret jacks become much more noticeable. If you cast TK and Force Hammer you have two focus left assuming the arc node didn't have to run into position and you didn't boost. It leaves very little for your jacks to do anything which is a problem since an unbuffed Ret heay usually doesn't kill an enemy heavy (or even a caster camping focus) even with 3 focus. If Rahn works for you in MM/TC formats, knock yourself out, but he's been very meh all the times I've fielded him.

It's also cute that you think you're that much better of a player than me that you can educate me. Keep that up, I'm sure everyone is buying it.

[NEoJoe]

It's also cute that you think you're that much better of a player than me that you can educate me. Keep that up, I'm sure everyone is buying it.

Got a computer now. But holy crap. This statement means no more going forward here for you an me. This is being settled in PMs.

To the OP, sorry this thread hasn't given much advice so far. I'll be back with some stuff from my point of view.

[Skorznex]

Well, that was an enlightening amount of arguing ... not really ... To the OP play who the hell you want to as long as you have fun who cares.

[Murkhadh]

To the OP, sorry this thread hasn't given much advice so far. I'll be back with some stuff from my point of view.

The thread gave all of the advice that exists, Rahn sucks in the format, Kaelyssa and Ossyan are the best two, but even then ret as a faction isn't' great in the format.

That's pretty much all the OP needs to know summarized in a few sentences.

Pick which jacks fit in your lists, discordia, phoenix, manticore, griffon, depending on if you have points.

[Steamroller]

Ok so what about Ky 2 manticores and a Chimera

[Murkhadh]

Ok so what about Ky 2 manticores and a Chimera

I'd probalby do 1 manticore, one phoenix and one griffon, phoenix becomes your node and the griffon to slam stuff or something, he hits just a tad harder than the chimera.