Mage hunter strike force - what do we have to stop them?

[Paddywhack]

So I've been facing Kaelyssa and a full unit of MHSF with UA during this Journeyman league. At 25pts I had a lot of trouble countering a 12" shooty unit that sees through everything and ignores buffs. I should be better at 35pts this week, but am still looking to figure out what we mercs have to counter them. I am playing a Highborn Bart list.

I'll have more Halberdiers this week and doing a simple run up to engage seems like the simplest, but I need to have a lot of bodies or some good luck to survive long enough to do this. He can easily spread them out to avoid my Mariner's cannon, but I could take a Mule marshalled to the ATGM+UA.

The ATGM might help now that I have the UA, but they still die more quickly than the MHSF. I was also thinking 2 Mariners with Broadsides on the first/second turn should cover them in AOEs pretty well. I thought about Herne and Johhne for extra AOEs too, but I can't see them surviving to get close enough to shoot.

Anyone have any other ideas for Bart?

[WH Zozo]

Stealth is the first, AOE, much more AOE And charging forgeguard unit.
for example:

Captain Bartolo Montador (*5pts)
* Vanguard (5pts)
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
* Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts)
* * Mule (8pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios (3pts)
Master Gunner Dougal MacNaile (2pts)

Okay, there is no Foreguard, but there is Dougal and a full ATGM + ua w mule for AOE, Eiryss and A&H in stealth, to hunt them down

And the ATGM doesnt die more quickly than the MSHF...ATGM get 15DEF, back in a linear obstrucle, they've got DEF19 Dont run forward, wait and shoot

[Paddywhack]

Stealth is the first, AOE, much more AOE And charging forgeguard unit.
for example:

Captain Bartolo Montador (*5pts)
* Vanguard (5pts)
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
* Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts)
* * Mule (8pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios (3pts)
Master Gunner Dougal MacNaile (2pts)

Okay, there is no Foreguard, but there is Dougal and a full ATGM + ua w mule for AOE, Eiryss and A&H in stealth, to hunt them down

And the ATGM doesnt die more quickly than the MSHF...ATGM get 15DEF, back in a linear obstrucle, they've got DEF19 Dont run forward, wait and shoot

Problem is its a journeyman league. I have to use the battle group. Also, unless I missed something, MHSF are not affected by cover- they shoot straight through everything. With phantom hunter(I think that's the one) they can even shoot through jacks. They have a 12 inch bubble that you cant hide in. The fact that its a Tactic from their UA is salt in the wound and that they can be a 10 man unit instead of just 6 like the ATGM.

[Robert Shepherd]

Rhupert + Gun Mages for Highborn and Rhupert + Kayazy for 4* beat up the MHSF and take their lunch money. They're still a strong choice against Bart, but that's because Bart is just a bad warcaster with bad matchups.

WHZozo, that list is awful. If it ever wins a game it's definitely going to be in spite of Bart, and not because of him. Virtually any other mercenary warcaster could be subbed in there for a better result.

[MarneusBigFists]

I agree with the second part of the above post.

Bart Nomad spam ftw

[Paddywhack]

OK, here is my battlegroup:

Bart
Mariner
Freebooter
Buccaneer

So next week I have 23 pts to play with. Obviously going to try ATGM+UA, but not sure what else. Might be worth it to Marshall the mariner to the mages and take a nomad or rover for Bart.

Was also thinking about taking my steelhed cav to run up on them and reach engage. Some halberdiers and solo's to taste and hopefully smash face.

[Lanz]

As always, cav > MHSF. Steelhead Cav most of all, due to how many attacks they can make on the charge.

[PG_vytzka]

I would go with Kayazies + Rhupert as well. Just make sure to keep Rhupert back as far as possible lest he gets ganked early.

[WH Zozo]

WHZozo, that list is awful. If it ever wins a game it's definitely going to be in spite of Bart, and not because of him. Virtually any other mercenary warcaster could be subbed in there for a better result.

You're right in that Bart is a very bad caster. But What can I do, if paddywack want to play him?
But that list not so bad as you said...a nother caster, it will be a very effective list. Try it

paddywack:yeah, i forgotten that it is a journeyman league, exc me. Bart's battlegroup is the standard talion bg, the 3 pirate jack?

[PG_vytzka]

I think the issue was not that Bart is a bad caster (he's, well, playable) but that the list in particular is not a great fit. You really need at least a Mariner in the battlegroup and thankfully you get one in the battlebox.

How about

Bart (-5)
- Mariner (8)
- Freebooter (6)
- Buccaneer (3)

Kayazy Assassins (min) + Underboss (7)
Dougal (2)
Gorman di Wulfe (2)
Rhupert (2)

A bit solo heavy for 25 (but they'll remain useful as you move up) and I'd happily dump the Booter and Buc to fill out Kayazies to full and add a Nomad instead, but you have to work with the battlebox you've got.

[MagnustheJust]

If it were plausible for you, Gun Bunny Blasters...

[NEoJoe]

Also, lay off the Hatches. If Bart sits pretty at 15/16 they aren't killing him unless he subs in Ravyn. Allocate, spend to heal, and make use of Broadside.

[absent]

One thing to watch out for is MHSF vs Merc jacks, they shoudln't be going after your caster in those lists, they should be shooting the arms off your mariner or mule or god forbid freebooter. If you want to use bart i'd probably use the mariner and gunner dougal, but i'd grab 2 vangaurds if you can and sheild gaurd for your caster and or mariner instead of the junky freebooter or the nice but not needed bucanner. If you go with the list given you still will have a chance, just expect the feat + mhsf (assuming ravyn here) will wreck your two arm 17 heavies pretty easily, so you need to get the melee unit RUN into melee and bart needs to feat all over them. A hill will make bart really hard for ravyn to kill, but just keeping him out of LOS of anything but the MHSF may be enough as the caster kill try with just mhsf vs a 15/16 with 17 health and tough is really dice dependant. If they are stuck with kaelyssa then the mhsf really won't hurt bart, though they can stationary your jacks and then blow them up, again, so again you need to run into melee and then bart feat, you just don't need to worry about getting bart to a safer spot unless they have some other shooting that will kill him, which would be invictors. bart should be pretty good against kaelyssa, if you can throw the freebooter away to trade for her arcnode you should be golden, just remember her feat is no charging and stealth so you need to plan for that. If the caster is kaelyssa don't bother with kayazy, she will just pick them off too easily, and if they have the stormfall archers or a pheonix it gets really bad for them. Steelheads are cheaper in that place, and they are going to give you more milage. When the jacks are so much better of a target because of backlash and arcantric bolt and jack hunter the steelheads essentially have stealth just because it'd be stupid to shoot at a 4/6 unit when you have all these tools to wreck warjacks. remember that barts focus can easily be stripped by kaelyssa anyway if you get within 12, and backlash on your jacks is going to do damage, so you might need to heal up with your focus, the rule against kaelyssa is either have 5-6 focus or heal and have none, sitting on 2-3 just enables her. Also if we are doing some metagaming to stop these guys, you could include doc in the list, not only is he 4+ tough for bart incase you do get diced out, but then he can heal that backlash damage.

I like damiano or shae vs MHSF, both have done well for me recently. Damiano you need to use that armor feat early to deliver the army, you don't need the +str to kill ret stuff, they aren't tough up in melee.

sorry for random train of thought post but you can find something useful in that.

[Thamarite Merc]

Try to use pirates instead of steelheads, they are hardier under fire,
Run them into the mage hunters to shut them down. Get a Bokur for Bosun Grogspar, the Cook and a min unit of Pressgangers for 11 points to exchange for the MHSF. The MHSF should only get one round of shooting at them, before they are stuck in melee and Bart charges across the board to roast them, and about half of the models they can box will just ignore it.
The Pressgangers will not be able to eliminate the MHSF quickly, unless you pour even more points in pirates, but the MHSF will have a hard time getting rid of them as well, which will keep them from shooting for quite some time.
IIRC Kaeylssa has no ways to help the MHSF avoid free strikes once engaged, and they are squishy enough to die from a hand weapon, even without a charge bonus, so they can't just back away, once the PGs have run into melee range.

Find some other useful things to do with Barts battlegroup, while the MHSF have their hands tied. The gambit is easily worth it against Kaelyssa, as she will lose a hefty combined anti-infantry, anti-jack component with her MHSF and will possibly have no other means to threaten your Mariners from a distance.
So even if the MHSF+UA are only 10 points worth, you are making a great deal.

[absent]

One thing i need to add is batten isn't worthless as kaelyssa struggles to break armor and batten isn't focus.

[Osito]

I second the Gunmages... High def is not good for the MHSF, and if they are wasting Ravyns feat shooting the Gunmages instead of your caster, you are winning.