Out of the Confort Zone into Madhammers' range!

[xJEDIx]

Hi gents,
First Post!

I've been playing this game for a whole year in a once-a-week game basis. I got a considerable Rhulic Mercenary collection and played with the Searforge Comission contract and Gorten as Warcaster. For a whole year I had the Madhammer model and didn't played it one unique game... 'till yesterday!

We have a little community of WarmaHordes players here in Portugal and for some random and glorious chance we got together yesterday at our local club to make some games. I went there in the morning, as if it was some kind of tournament, just to play WarmaHordes games!

My first game was with Gorten but with a few changes, I went Highborn Cove with Eiryss (oh Heresy!). It was against Legion and against one of our guru players so the result was as predicted!

Then I went into another game and I thought "what the heck... Madhammer, I choose you" and it was Super Effective!

I know why I've never played Madhammer before... I was into the comfort zone of Gorten with the Driller and Strenght of Granite combo, it's Feat and the Wall for protection. I never dared to step out of those safety lines and face the risk to play a different Warcaster. But yesterday it was a fun day filled with fun games and I decided to try Madhammer and now I'm hyped!


I played Madhammer with the normal list I play with Gorten but I was one point bellow the 35 so I went with the 1-point Merc available, Reinholdt! And it was golden along with Madhammer, allowing him to fire twice a turn its AOE:4 blast weapon! A 1-point game breaker!

I used 3 Gunbunnies with him, 2 Gunner and 1 Blaster. I would like to know if this is the best formula for him. I played Gunbunnies when I started playing Warmachine but then I traded them for Brun & Lug, but with the Covenent I don't have access to them so I went back to the Bunnies. The 2 Gunners worked really well with Explosivo and the Blaster is also a respectable threat.
I also played the usual Driller but I guess I would replace it for Rockram in Madhammers' list.

I'm also tempted to drop the Shield Gun min-unit I play for 'Caster screening and add a min-unit Forgeguard along a max-unit I already have. I also play with Thor+Basher and Eiryss, just to shake some things! I didn't had the points for Rockbottom so I fielded Reinholdt.

This game I played Madhammer was against Khador with 2 HvJacks and max-Man'o'Wars. Madhammer and Reinholdt won the game by themselves, bombarding Sorscha twice-a-turn and casting Inhospitable Ground every turn to avoid SPD 4 Khador stuff getting into contact.


I'm very surprised with the tools Madhammer has to offer and a bit sad for never played him before!

[rydiafan]

Reinholdt and Madhammer are indeed a match made in heaven. Add in Gunner Dougal and Madhammer is shooting four 4" AOEs per turn and rerolling deviation on all of them. Delicious!

[RoninXiC]

+2 RAT is also extremely helpful. A boost to 8 (+2 for stationary) is almost an autohit against any jack.

I like Durgen for his two amazing upkeep spells (primed and redline) and his ability to do LOADS of damage from pretty far away. 12" is not super far, but it's enough to stand behind a row of primed risen and a row of forgeguard.

If you love Searforge, great, but in terms of strength, switch to Highborn. it's so much better. Cheap, fast, hard hitting things + some of the best solos (reinhold and Dougal) are what makes Durgen shine way more intense than him in Searforge.

Redline on a Driller/Rockram is just briliant. If you charge/run it's exactly like the focus you would've spent anyways and +2 SPD allows the slow as a-s-s jacks to have chance to get the charge which will almost always (always) kill the enemy if you load him up with 3 focus and redline. A Rockram hits 4 times with a P/S 20(!) Hammer! bam.

[Hjelmen0]

I played Gorten for the longest time, thinking that Madhammer wasn't up to scratch. Then I took Madhammer to large tournament and had the most fun I've had with my Searforge in ages!

And that was even without Reinholdt or MacNaile, just plain ol' Searforge

[Thamarite Merc]

The usual top tier calls would be either of Cylenna or Boomhowler instead of the Forgeguard, or the Risen if you want to save points and don't shy away from pAlexias mechanic.

[xJEDIx]

Hey!
Thank y'all for the input!

I played Searforge mostly because of theme. And because I didn't had any Hordes army before so I "practiced" Hordes with Brun & Lug.
Gamewise I think the bonus from the Searforge only works really well with the 'Casters Tiers.

The Highborn contract offers me alot I didn't had in Searforge: SPD, good Solos and Magic! Madhammer offers me the last one, but I've made a few games against Cryx (with Gorten) and I had bad times dealing with Pistol Wraiths and those pesky Wraiths that possess 'Jacks. Maybe with Durgen there would not be problematic at all!

You talked about adding the Risen, Boomhowler's and Nyss Hunters... do they work well with Durgen? The Forgeguard and High Shields offer me Ranked Attacks so I can make an effective screen on Durgen. But from those three I like the Risen and can also thought over Nyss Hunters since I also play Circle.

And about Durgen... I didn't Primed anyone on my game. But I Redlined a Driller with great effect (it allowed me a charge)! But, along with Explosivo-Focused-Gunbunnies, I guess Inhospitable Ground really breaks the game when playing against SPD 4~5 targets, it really allows outmaneuvering with Rhulic stuff!

[Kenlen]

Primed Nyss Hunters are a thing of beauty. Run them 14" into your enemy's lines and see him squirm as he tries to deal with MAT 8, PS 11, DEF 15 weapon masters that'll explode in a POW 14, AOE 3" when they succeed in hitting them. or 10" pathfinder charges through forests where they hit as hard as forgeguard (better MAT, but no crit).

Primed Risen? Up to 20 models that suddenly hit respectably hard, and will blast holes in your opponents lines when he hits back? And they can be replenished! Good times.

And remember, Durgen don't need ranked attacks to blast apart his enemies. He's got Arcing Fire on his gun.

[RoninXiC]

Primed is such an awesome spell... just give it a try. Unfortunately, he has no good Primed targets in a Searforge list. Forgeguard are too slow and need their high armour/b2b-contact and Highshields just plain suck as a target for the spell :x

Risen for cheap mines or Nyss for uber killy fast exploding seaking missiles.

[Hjelmen0]

In a Searforge list, I think the only really valid target are the Ogrun Assault Corps when they charge. And I've used it successfully on High Shields once they get bogged down in melee, but that's probably just a fringe case

[xJEDIx]

Humm... I guess I'll have to rework a Highborn Madhammer's list!

And tell me, what's better to add: Rockbottom that allow auto-pass CMD checks that'll work with ForgeGuard charging Terror/Abominations and also Thor Prontos; or Rhupert Carvolo that can make the same tricks (or better!) with the ForgeGuard but will not help Thor at all?

[MagnustheJust]

Insanity + BFH
____________ = Epic fun win!!

4" AoE's

[Da-Rock]

I'm surprised that I haven't seen anyone post Eliminators with Primed?

Def 17 in melee + Mat 11 (Gang) + x2 POW 13 (Gang), Combo strike at POW 17 who cares about armor dropping - use acrobatics and side step to get to caster and die with double explosion!

[MagnustheJust]

I'm surprised that I haven't seen anyone post Eliminators with Primed?

Def 17 in melee + Mat 11 (Gang) + x2 POW 13 (Gang), Combo strike at POW 17 who cares about armor dropping - use acrobatics and side step to get to caster and die with double explosion!

Because 2 models vs. 7/11 as far as Primed Kayazy go...

Hit the Assassins with Primed, and use the Eliminators as hard hitting flankers.

[Da-Rock]

I would think the better defense, lower cost and flanking ability along with the Acrobatics ability every turn and not just once would be attractive to a ranged list.

[bouncymischa]

In a Searforge list, I think the only really valid target are the Ogrun Assault Corps when they charge. And I've used it successfully on High Shields once they get bogged down in melee, but that's probably just a fringe case

I have used Primed on Forgeguard myself, but that was because I was specifically building an "anti-armor" list to go against things like Karchev melee jackwalls or Man-o-War Shocktroopers, where the Defensive Line benefits really weren't going to do them any good anyways -- against Karchev, I was specifically spreading my Forgeguard out to prevent tramples through their lines, by keeping them around 2" apart. At least by Priming the Forgeguard and sending them in, they stacked up more damage and made my opponent pay for blowing them up.

I'll freely admit it's a fringe case, but the option does have its uses. :3

[RoninXiC]

I mean MAT 9 P/S 13 Weaponmaster is just EVIL (especially for 5/8 points!)

2-3 will wreck most jack/beasts on a charge

[Kenlen]

And tell me, what's better to add: Rockbottom that allow auto-pass CMD checks that'll work with ForgeGuard charging Terror/Abominations and also Thor Prontos; or Rhupert Carvolo that can make the same tricks (or better!) with the ForgeGuard but will not help Thor at all?

Errr.. Both?

[MagnustheJust]

Humm... I guess I'll have to rework a Highborn Madhammer's list!

And tell me, what's better to add: Rockbottom that allow auto-pass CMD checks that'll work with ForgeGuard charging Terror/Abominations and also Thor Prontos; or Rhupert Carvolo that can make the same tricks (or better!) with the ForgeGuard but will not help Thor at all?

Errr.. Both?

Yarp. .....

[oxyguy]

Hello all, Long time lurker, not a frequent poster.

In the Highborne, Dont forget about the Arcane Tempest Gunmage with a Mule Jack Marshalled to it. Range 16 with standing still with a snipe shot, w/ Durgans feat 3 dice to hit 4" aoe pwr 15. ouch! and if im not mistaken, another +2range w dougals mini feat.

[fflar]

Because 2 models vs. 7/11 as far as Primed Kayazy go...

Hit the Assassins with Primed, and use the Eliminators as hard hitting flankers.

@MagnustheJust: Spacing can sometimes be an issue with the Assassins, at least in my experience - terrain can especially make for issues with keeping them far enough apart from each other and from all the rest of your list. It's a big no-go zone for both you (excepting Durgen, though Reinholdt won't like it much) and your opponent. Sometimes good (and I do love the Assassins in general) and sometimes a pain.

@Da-Rock: I've had good luck with Eliminators as well, running two units so I can swap Primed around as needed. Acrobatics and Side Step are great for getting the exploding guys where they need to be. Some uses: Combo Strike a jack twice at POW 17, using Side Step to scoot around so they're out of each other's explosions and can't both be trampled; stab a few infantry (Primed gets them enough MAT and POW that they're actually pretty reliable even without Gang, whereas normally you might worry about missing your attacks and thus your moves) and then Side Step into a cluster of additional troops; or (as you suggest) run them up to a caster and dare him to move or kill them.

@xJEDIx: I concur with Kenlen on the Nyss. They do pretty well without too much support, but if you need it, you can Prime them up to kill a bunch of bad guys. Their CRA is also pretty nice to finish off a caster that's wounded from Durgen's feat turn blasts (which can work quite well - with Dougal rerolls, you've got a minimum 55% chance to catch a caster in a deviating blast). Put on a few points of damage here and there (hopefully also clearing their screen with the blasts), then CRA to finish things.

Also, I'd recommend Rhupert if you have to choose between the two. Rockbottom does only two things: keeps people from running, and helps Thor Pronto. Rhupert keeps people from running just about as well, solves your Pathfinder issues, and if you need neither of those things, gives you DEF 16 Nyss or Gun Mages or DEF 15/17 Kayazy, or Tough on anything you want. There's probably one, maybe two key Pronto checks every game - and you're likely to make them anyway. Yes, it's bad if you miss those, but if you don't, Rockbottom won't add much. Rhupert will give you consistent value every game, whether your problem is CMD checks, high enemy MAT, or difficult terrain.

Obviously take both if you've got room, but at 35 I often find points getting a little tight, especially with the support solos that Durgen already needs to work (Dougal, Reinholdt, and probably eEiryss at a minimum).

[nicholas_342]

I'm in the same boat, I just started using Durgen and am having a blast, so to speak I never played him before because I wanted to stick with pure Seaforge, and now I am kicking myself for waiting so long. At higher points I say most definately take ATGM + UA with a mule. That's just a mean combo as is, then you add in Durgen's feat and things get real ugly. Then, if you want to be even meaner you can include Thor with an avalancher. Another fun tactic that I just used was I ran the three surviving Nyss Hunters into b2b with a warlock with evasive, and then shot one of the Nyss in the back with a tuned up avalancher. The turn before the warlock just walked away and shot a couple of the Nyss from a safe distance. Three Nyss bombs made for a very dead warlock. Happy blastings

[rydiafan]

I ran the three surviving Nyss Hunters into b2b with a warlock with evasive, and then shot one of the Nyss in the back with a tuned up avalancher. Three Nyss bombs made for a very dead warlock.

Primed does not trigger from friendly attacks.

[nicholas_342]

Well s*%t. Your signature says it all, that does stink. That put's that tactic 6 feet under. I'm guessing that's why they did it. Thank's for pointing that out rydiafan, although now I have to go back to my LGS on Sunday and apologize for my misplay I guess that just means that you have to block off any move options for an evasive warlock. Wait, so does that mean that a primed Nyss exploding just kills any nearby Nyss without causing them to explode as well?

[rydiafan]

Wait, so does that mean that a primed Nyss exploding just kills any nearby Nyss without causing them to explode as well?

Yes indeed. That's the silver lining to your tactic not working; No losing the entire unit to a cascade of Primed explosions from one death.