Hordes Mk2 Heads Up

[WielderOfTheTrueLaw]

Give a heads up to fellow menites regarding new hordes mk2 rules. Basically the reverse of the other thread I started.

Epic Thagarosh
I truly fear this model. This breath is a Sp 10 Pow 12 that auto fires, can critically freeze, and does both fire and ice damage. His Manifest Destiny spell is Signs and Portents for the Legion. Not to mention his normal flight and melee awesomeness.

I think it's appropriate that I fear him considering he carries the essence of a stronger dragon in his chest. This is one model you have to approach cautiously.

[jandrese]

Isn't that pretty much the same as his Mk I incarnation? He's a tough cookie to deal with, and you can't lock him in melee with something anymore.

[Oilslick]

Yeah, he's good, but he's still expensive and I believe you and free strike flight now. Also fire type damage means we have quite a few things including a caster safe from his spray.

[Dewbakuk]

That's an interesting question. If his spray does both Fire and Ice damage, do things that are immune to one take damage or not? I shall put this in the rules bit, cheers.

*Edit* Okay been 'Infernaled', If you're immune to one then you're immune to the attack. So yeah, Menoth and Khador both have several things that are immune to that attack.

[Demeritus]

After looking over Vayl and Dark Sentinel, I'm really wondering why the Devout was nerfed so hard especially when Legion has access to the Nephilim Protector which fulfills a similar role.

[fuzzypants]

feora, temple flame guard and clensers can ignor the breath weapon.

[Snake Eyes]

feora, temple flame guard and clensers can ignor the breath weapon.

TFG are not immune to fire damage. I've been seeing in other places where people think that the Protectorate have a bunch load of Fire damage immunity. We don't. It's Cleansers, Castigators, and the Feoras. That's it. Both the unit and the jack don't see a lot of board time in Mk. II.

[jandrese]

I wish TFG were flame immune, that would make them the perfect combo unit to go with the Cleansers. I'm also annoyed that one of our casters didn't get a spell like: Fire Shield Cost: 2 RNG 6 UP: Yes; OFF: No: +2 DEF (or ARM, could go either way), and immunity: fire.

If we could, I would take Assault Kommandos just to pair them up with Cleansers.

Hopefuly the Cinerators will be immune to fire.

[Dewbakuk]

Well I field all three

Cleansers aren't fantastic but there are a bunch of uses for a unit that ignores cover, concealment, stealth etc and can fire it's spray templates through each other without getting hurt!

[McDevious]

Give a heads up to fellow menites regarding new hordes mk2 rules. Basically the reverse of the other thread I started.

Epic Thagarosh
I truly fear this model. This breath is a Sp 10 Pow 12 that auto fires, can critically freeze, and does both fire and ice damage. His Manifest Destiny spell is Signs and Portents for the Legion. Not to mention his normal flight and melee awesomeness.

I think it's appropriate that I fear him considering he carries the essence of a stronger dragon in his chest. This is one model you have to approach cautiously.

Manifest Destiny only works on battlegroup models in his control area, not all models, so it's not nearly as rough as S&P.

[WielderOfTheTrueLaw]

also, just saw that he also now has the Scourge spell, lots of stuff gonna be knocked on their butts when facing thag2

[Invader Larb]

He is a nasty warlock, that is for sure. Try to play games against him and submit feedback. Hordes feedback is not just for Hordes players. It is for people who play against Hordes as well.

[WielderOfTheTrueLaw]

He is a nasty wartlock, that is for sure. Try to play games against him and submit feedback. Hordes feedback is not just for Hordes players. It is for people who play against Hordes as well.

I would, but I'm also the local Legion player in my group. I think I'll get high off of the power that radiates from him and end up saying nothing's unbalanced for him. Course, if I could get someone to play me using my models, I would. But no one's willing to use a faction they don't already know a bit about, let alone a whole new rule set.

[Malfunction]

I REALLY enjoy playing against eThag. He is always a tough nut to crack, but makes for a great game IMO. Many people say he is OP. I think he is prefect the way he is. Sure MD is strong, but so is the choir.

Two things I remind myself when I play him.

1) He does not have eyeless sight. So with passage hymn and support behind your large based jacks, his target selection should be minimized. Now the Typhon is another story.

2) He does not have much to increase the speed of his beats, well besides UA which you can account for.

Anyway, just my opinion on him.

[bluecardinal]

Has anyone had a chance to play against Calandra and those burrowers? I would like to play against it with Reznik if I had the chance.

If anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about, there's a 12 page thread in the field test forum about here.

[Exemplar's_Gaze]

You can still lock him in melee. Flight suffers free strikes now, thank the Creator.

[baronvonchaos]

I played against Rhyas with a merc army and she's still tough to kill, but the popcorn bit is gone and she has to forfeit the rest of her action to go incorporeal (which is a bugger). I shot her to death with Croe&Co. I'd put in that Rhyas is fairly balanced now. The loss of mind ripper and the change to decap makes me even more happy. I found myself wanting to camp focus and not wanting to camp focus... Crit decap, or mind ripper, you pick. Decap is still nasty as hell, but at least it doesn't give buffs to everyone and other insane things.

She can still lawn mower, but at least the MAT doesn't go up.

[albertcamUsjr]

I play both Legion and PoM, and as a PoM player I was much more afraid of Legion in Mk I. Legion is a lot less tricky now, it's a lot easier to protect basically every caster except Harbinger against most of their assassination threats.

Even in Mk. I Legion was pretty easy to crack if you could manage to survive the initial hit (which, playing PoM, I became pretty accustomed to doing).

Legion beasts really, really don't like being on fire (and, of course, none of their infantry does).

[Necra-Chi]

After much testing of legion vs Protectorate here the top 5 hitlist of things to watch out for.

1. Striders with UA, Deathstalkers (or Raptors) flanking the cheese wedge, killing your support, wrecking your idrians. Striders look puny and expensive now, but the ability to quickly flank, with stealth, and ignore forests, concealment and cover, means that they are fantastic at hunting our warjack support. They also trump idrians pretty badly, unless you can get a DEF buff on the idrians, in which case the striders struggle to hit in the volumes required. You would think that our massed AOEs would solve this problem, and they certainly help, but striders can spread out quite a bit and still operate effectively. They also tend to draw our AOE jacks out of formation, which is never good.

2. Saeryn and flying beasts, mainly Angels. This combo is more powerful than it was in Mk1 even. Now when she uses her feat the angels can still ignore free strikes, but now with Flight, the angles can even target through intervening models when declaring the charge. They go right through your defenses and kill your caster, or other important models and very little can defend against it, except killing the angels first. Saeryn uses far more of her excellent spell and ability list now. She'll blightbringer your infantry, copy your best buff upkeeps, and hose your melee with Breathstealer.

3. E-Thagrosh and beasts. Not just manifest destiny and dragonstorm, this guy is the whole package now. Beatstick extraordinaire, fantastic army support, fantastic upkeeps, knockdown spell, staying power. He turns all his beasts to killing machines, so if you leave an opening to any one of them, you're in trouble. And he can also get stuck in himself, to devastating effect.

4. Vayl, like Thagrosh, except the beatstick part. She can get a pseudo arc node easily and has decent spells, but basically buffs her beasts and hangs back because she's so squishy. Her main distinguisher is leash, allowing scary threat ranges on a single beast. her assassination potential is somewaht better because she can stack chiller and incite to get most things to effective MAT10/11.

5. Incubi, usually delivered with striders or cannonfodder legionnaires. Don't be fooled that you can just ignore the legionnaires because they will clog up an area and you'll need to kill them. This releases incubi, who always get a charge or a backstrike, and have two medium power attacks, that damage ARM 19 warjacks significantly on the charge. Their only weakness really is MAT and they are easily dispatched afterward. The main value is that the few attacks that hit hurt a hell of alot, they can often get angles that allow them to take out solos and support, and they clog up your formation just long enough for the second wave, usually warbeasts going for the assassination, to arrive.

[cryptomancer]

I play against Legion more than any other faction, and while I have yet to beat eThags (not that many games against him, honestly), there are things that you should keep in mind when facing any Legion player:

1) Legion hates the Jackwall. They have few magical ranged attacks, and fewer still that can punch through ARM:18 or 19. Hymn of Passage on the Jackwall is a big hard wall of armour that can't be weakend at range. This is a huge advantage against about half of Legion army lists.

2) Legion hates Fire. It'll kill most infantry on average rolls, and even their heavy infantry and light Cav will die after a second turn of POW:12 damage rolls. Lesser warbeasts aren't fond of it either, since it's doing straight damage in their case. This makes the Feoras a fantastic tool against them. I have a buddy who will concede if I put my eFeora auto-Fire Template List of Doom on the table. In fact, it's quite good against every Hordes faction but Trollbloods.

3) Knockdown. pKreoss is one of Legion's biggest foils. Most armies have some sort to Knockdown resistance (*cough*cough*Covenant*cough*), even if it's only a Warlock or Warcaster. Legion, as of my last read-through, has nothing. Even eThagrosh can't take a bajillion rockets to the face lying down.


-Crypto

[RoyalAssassin]

3) Knockdown. pKreoss is one of Legion's biggest foils. Most armies have some sort to Knockdown resistance (*cough*cough*Covenant*cough*), even if it's only a Warlock or Warcaster. Legion, as of my last read-through, has nothing. Even eThagrosh can't take a bajillion rockets to the face lying down.

We've got Safeguard as an animus on the Nephilim Protector. It's 2 fury, so we can't spam it on everything in Kreoss''s control area, but it can keep eThagrosh himself standing during the feat turn.

We really do hate burning infantry, though. Especially burning Striders, if you can violate their Stealth - POW12 is instantly fatal to everyone but the UA.

[jandrese]

In a tournament when I'm facing Legion I usually reach for Kreoss. Hold back his feat and camp some focus and you will make a Legion player very nervous. None of the Legion warlocks likes being knocked down and their beasts tend to fold up like wet tissue paper if you can take away their DEF.

They'll often be paranoid about getting within 19" of Kreoss, especially if he's packing a Redeemer, and it's difficult to make an assassination run from 20" away.

The only thing to be careful of is to not let them bait you into popping your feat too early, since the threat of the feat is almost as powerful as the feat itself.

[Necra-Chi]

We've got Safeguard as an animus on the Nephilim Protector. It's 2 fury, so we can't spam it on everything in Kreoss''s control area, but it can keep eThagrosh himself standing during the feat turn.

We really do hate burning infantry, though. Especially burning Striders, if you can violate their Stealth - POW12 is instantly fatal to everyone but the UA.

Do not try this. Kreoss purifies safeguard away an dthen you die.

Kreoss, redeemer, choir, Rhoven. Trumps legion so badly its silly.

[Soulblighter]

Kreoss trumps everyone so badly its silly :P