Talon to Javelin mod

[Swift2568]

I'm fascinated by the older Cygnarian jacks. I'm putting together a Merc list with a Talon, but I'd like to find a way to make the Talon look like a Javelin.

So far from Prime MKII We know that the Talon is the immediate predecessor to the Charger. We also know the Lancer was built on a Charger Chassis, but uses the technologies from the Javelin. That leads me to believe that the Javelin shares the chassis with the Talon.

My goal is a Javelin that's been stripped down and retired for scrap, salvaged and refit into a Talon.

Does anyone have any ideas on how I can best achieve this? Also, I'd love some help scratching up more information about the Javelin and the Arcane.

[Swift2568]

-I was thinking about using paper to make a 'painted over' Cygnus. That's one of the big differences between a Talon and a lancer.
-I might be able to stencil or use transfers to put some kind of logo marking on it. Sort of like the emblems on cars.
-I have the No-Quarter that shows how to put battle scars on a jack.
-I was thinking of using a faded blue, almost gray, for the armor, but a completely different color for the shield and lance. I figure that they would have repaired the jack, then just grabbed the equipment from another jack that couldn't be salvaged.
-The javelin had an arc node. I figure that when the jack was salvaged, the arc node would have been missing or irreparable. That would leave a hole in the armor that they would have bolted a plate over. I can use a piece of paper, or plastic to make that patch plate.

[Mod_Faultie]

I'd suggest have a Talon w/ an Arc Node, but have the Arc Node look like it's been shot, or smashed, or somesuch.

[Mr_Smigs]

plasticard works... if you hit the hobby stores that do trains/ships, many sell "bolted" brass plates in various dimensions...

IIRC, the historic mission (karchev vs cycnar) mentions the loadout of the Javelin...

basically, i'd suggest griding down the shield (no special bobs, just flat steel and bolts) and a spear swap (something more akin to it's name...)

mod the head and definately somekinda patchwork over the arcnode replacement... (was the Jav or the Arcane the arcnode precursor?)

[Swift2568]

IIRC, the historic mission (karchev vs cycnar) mentions the loadout of the Javelin...

Where can I find this? Is it in one of the books, or in a No Quarter.


I have a Lancer shield available, but I kind of want to keep the Talon shield/lance. I figure Cygnar would have completely disarmed the jack before decommissioning it. Thus, whoever salvaged and refit it on the aftermarket would have had to find/buy/steal/salvage a proper Talon shield/lance. I'm hoping that if I paint the shield differently than the hull that it will be a little more apparent that they don't belong together.

[Mr_Smigs]

dah... yeah it's a NQ that has the mission.....

[Swift2568]

I did some proper research:

Prime MkII:
-The charger is an improved Talon
-Lancer is adapted from the Charger
-The Javelin was used before the arcane
-The arcane was used before the Lancer

Prime Remix:
-Charger evolved from the 'mobility systems' of the Talon
-Charger has the same armor as a Talon
-Javelin and Arcane are 'fragile antiquated relics of another era"
-Lancer was adapted from the charger.

Prime:
-Haley complained about the Arcane, thus the Lancer was developed
-All Arcanes were retrofitted into Lancers.

Escalation:
-Talon was the Cygnarian front line Jack

No Quarter #4
-Historical battle
-Javelin was the jack before the Arcane, which was before the Lancer.
A Javelin can be proxied with these changes: -1spd, -1def, -2Arm, Regular shield, and Arcantrik relay.
-Javelin is 'Outmoded warjack'


I think I've found enough support for the Talon as an accurate Javelin as long as it's clear that the shield and lance don't belong. I even found evidence that the old jacks can, and were retrofitted.

[Swift2568]

For all the bits and bobs I've kept from my previous mod work, the only bit I can't seem to find is the original tip for the stun lance. I found the entire Lancer though. I think I'm going to swap the lancer head onto my Talon/Javelin.

I plan on doing the majority of the work over the course of this next week. I'll upload pictures when I can.

[Zaxon]

From the research you've done, I think taking a Talon as your base then removing or cutting down on however much armor you can will make it look more "fragile and antiquitated." Use a Talon head, an arcantrik relay from a Renegade (unlit though...it no longer works) and patchwork armor to make up for that -2 and you should be good.

[Swift2568]

I forgot about the Renegade.

[Skyydragonn]

-I was thinking about using paper to make a 'painted over' Cygnus. That's one of the big differences between a Talon and a lancer.
-I might be able to stencil or use transfers to put some kind of logo marking on it. Sort of like the emblems on cars.
-I have the No-Quarter that shows how to put battle scars on a jack.
-I was thinking of using a faded blue, almost gray, for the armor, but a completely different color for the shield and lance. I figure that they would have repaired the jack, then just grabbed the equipment from another jack that couldn't be salvaged.
-The javelin had an arc node. I figure that when the jack was salvaged, the arc node would have been missing or irreparable. That would leave a hole in the armor that they would have bolted a plate over. I can use a piece of paper, or plastic to make that patch plate.

the arc node is an external part of a warjack, its the goofy looking "hat" thats usually bolted onto the front of the smokestacks ona jack, if you want to have that 'broke/irreperable' look to it I would simply mash the arc node with a hammer and carve some dents into it before putting it in place.

the armor color sounds fine, perhaps use the standard Cygnar color for the shield and perhaps swap in the spear from a revenger? (painted in menoth colors of course)

[Swift2568]

the arc node is an external part of a warjack, its the goofy looking "hat"

My thought is that Cygnar would have removed the Acantrik relay before scrapping the jack. That way the technology can't fall into the wrong hands. That would either leave a hole or loose wires. On the aftermarket, I think they'd have found a way to cover that. That leaves me with options to either model an extra plate onto the head, or else model in some loose wires.


To pull this thread back on track, I'm looking for is suggestions on Visual ques that would cause a Cygnar player to say "that's a lancer, no, wait, what is that?"


The current list of ToDo mods for this jack:

• paint shield and Lance differently than hull (Cygnarian pattern hull, merc pattern shield)
• Fix Lance tip (I grabbed the wrong part during initial assembly)
• Model a cover plate for the 'missing' Arcantrik relay
• modify or replace the head (what would the Javelin head look like?)
• use painting techniques to make the jack look old and warn
• use painting techniques to add battle damage.

Can anyone think of anything I'm missing? I plan on starting the green stuff work tonight.

[capamerica1980]

I'd suggest have a Talon w/ an Arc Node, but have the Arc Node look like it's been shot, or smashed, or somesuch.

I think that would look good....

[capamerica1980]

You could just get a Lancer shield from PP and then you wouldn't have to do that extra work.. If I were you on Thorn there are is piping leading up to the Arc Node, maybe make them pipes with green stuff and have that "capped" off and then the repair plate where Arc node assembly would be ( I know its called something different on Javelin)

also maybe make a slight variation to the head... The Talon has a cool looking head but the lancer has a more tradition knighs helm look, maybe add a partial "mouth gaurd"... to understand what I am going at look at the head that came with the ThunderHead and you get what I mean....

[Swift2568]

Everyone seems to want that arcantrik relay on there? Ok, on that thought, I have the bits from a Lancer. What do you all think about removing the coils off the side of the lancer arc node and just putting the little dome atop my Talon/Javelin

[Swift2568]

on Thorn there are is piping leading up to the Arc Node, maybe make them pipes with green stuff and have that "capped" off and then the repair plate where Arc node assembly would be

Awesome, I love it!

[Swift2568]

The current list of ToDo mods for this jack:

• paint shield and Lance differently than hull (Cygnarian pattern hull, merc pattern shield)
• Fix Lance tip (I grabbed the wrong part during initial assembly)
• Model a cover plate for the 'missing' Arcantrik relay
• Model wires/pipes to the 'missing' Arcantrik relay
• modify or replace the head (what would the Javelin head look like?)
• use painting techniques to make the jack look old and warn
• use painting techniques to add battle damage.

Can anyone think of anything I'm missing? I plan on starting the green stuff work tonight.

[Swift2568]

How would warjack registries work? Can I just make up some 'J-28' for Javelin #28

I'm thinking about a decal on the shoulder and on the thigh plate.

[Mr_Smigs]

roll the chassis down a nearby flight of stairs before priming for some real battle damage?


drill a few holes in it across the front and shield.. ("speed holes" as it were...)

I'd say, rather than have the relay on there,
drill a couple bolt holes, and just have the nuts there, as though it was removed and the bolts left in to cover up the damage...

for the spear, I'd say use whatever's handy (a headless staff might make it more obviously a bodged warjack)

perhaps get like a Manowar or Bokur shield so it's very obviously "the wrong fit"



as for a head...

if you run a could wires out from the neck (some fine jewelry wire spun together to make excess arcantric connection cables) into the default head, and perhaps bend the cowling out, you can give the impression that this "arcane" doesn't have his origional head anymore...

then I'd definately suggest grinding down the shoulder armor to remove the lowest plate (giving the joint more exposure/motion)


an old retrofit wouldn't have a designation anymore,
but the owners might name it... perhaps a bomber babe on the shield?

[Swift2568]

roll the chassis down a nearby flight of stairs before priming for some real battle damage?

Wow, Seriously?

[The 13th Doomreaver]

For what the Arcantrik relay looks like, take a look at our good friend the Scrapjack. It is stated in the fluff in Apoth. that the Old Witch took one off of a disabled Javelin during the Thornwood war.

Sounds good what you have so far, though.

[Spinballwizard]

If you want to go with the "arcantrik relay still there but nonfunctional" route I can bring my Scrapjack over for a sample. Sadly though I don't have a spare shield handy. By the way, could it be confirmed that the relays were removed? In addition to the Old Witch, Protectorate mechaniks developed their arc nodes by reverse engineering ones found on captured Javelins (Prime MkII p138). In that sense, still having one there could work...

They probably won't fit well and the plastic and metal wouldn't go together anyways, but I have 3 spare Khador jack heads from my heavy kit. Shave off the spike and they might look "normal."

[Mael]

I think (Hope) smigs was kidding DO NOT ROLL IT DOWN THE STAIRS. I am eager to see how this develops swift. Keep us informed!

[Mr_Smigs]

i have a spare charger chassis right now, i might try the roll with that before seriously telling swift to do it...

[Swift2568]

It's been a busy couple weeks. Last night under the influence I managed to green stuff the beginnings of an arkantrik relay. When I did the dremel work to assemble the model, I cut a massive gash into the shoulder and the shield. The green stuff on the shoulder is supposed to be a metal patch for the gash. I still need to get rivets for both parts. I intended to use pinheads, but that didn't work well.

I can't wait to paint this, since that's where the details will really shine. Anyone know an artist skilled enough to put a bomber babe on a javelin?

[Swift2568]

More work tonight. Funny thing: pencil lead make for easy rivets. Here's the scoop: drill hole. use tweezers to dip short pieces of lead in super glue, then insert in the hole. Last, Dremel the over length leads down to nice low rivet heads.

I had some wire laying around, so I figured I'd try out the relay to head connection. It doesn't look too bad.

I think the next step is paint. I'll have to pick up some new primer Friday. In the mean time, I'm looking for a WWII bomber nose art that can easily be photo shopped into a female cygnarian warcaster laying, or riding, a javelin (the weapon). The idea is to shrink whatever picture I whip up and put in on the left shoulder. Then I'm thinking an old registry marking for the right shoulder.

[devoncodain]

It is looking really good dude. I can not wait till it is painted.

[Justin Kase]

Very cool looking - what type of wire is that? It almost looks like beaded chain pull for a fan/light/

[Swift2568]

It's actually the fine wire out of a headphone speaker that's been coiled on a pin.
I'm still not sure I like it since it doesn't make sense to run a wire over the armor.

[Swift2568]

MSPaint rocks. I grabbed some random clip art from the web and mashed it into a babe for the Javelin's shoulder. I should do some more work to her, but remember that she's going to be shrunk down to less than 1/4in. I picked a stewardess because her uniform looks like a sexy mock of a Cygnarian officer. I'd like to replace that wine glass and maker her look like a Warcaster. (anyone thinking of Haley?) Also, the nearly impossible to spot wings on her breast should be a Cygnus. I hope my photo printer can handle this job...

[Justin Kase]

heh - can't wait to see that Printing it on decal paper?

[Swift2568]

Printing it on decal paper?

Yeah. I've got a cannon ip4600 photo printer, and Testers decal paper. I've done decal in the past (I wish I had pics of the playboy gun-bunny), though I had some issues that I will need to spend a lot of time working out. The biggest issue back then was the crappy printer (Dell deskjet A10).

Alternatively, I know a technique for ink jet printing to tissue paper.

[Swift2568]

I might be able to practice on some painted marbles...

[Mr_Smigs]

note, there are vector based art programs that will shrink the image without loss in quality...

[Justin Kase]

note, there are vector based art programs that will shrink the image without loss in quality...

Such as ?

[Yurimow]

Such as ?

corel draw, adobe illustrator...

It wouldnt make a difference anyway, since you have to print it in the end. Vectorizing an image is usefull to avoid quality loss when you enlarge pictures. When you shrink a picture all you got to do is rise resolution (dpi) proportionally (half size => double resolution).

Edit:
There you go: 0,25" width at 1600dpi



notice any quality loss?

Edit 2:
After rereading swift's research i've started doubting a javelin would look anthing like a talon. To me it looks like the arcane (since they were later retrofitted to lancers) was a complete new chassis on which (threw further development) the talon and later the newer cygnar lights are based (charger, lancer and so on). Thats why (to me) a javelin would be as different from a charger/lancer as a charger/lancer is from a hunter/grenadier.

I wonder if we will ever see a mercenary warcaster with his own custom javelin. Would be nice, hu?

[Justin Kase]

Not to my eyes - nice

[Swift2568]

i've started doubting a javelin would look anthing like a talon

I have some doubts too. I really don't have a lot to go off of for the Javelin, and the conclusions I've drawn are easier for modeling. It helps that I'm masking it further by pushing the "retrofitted into a Talon" angle. Afterall, I'm using the Talon's rules for it.

Still, We won't know til Privateer press tells us (please!!!) A custom Merc Javelin would be awesome. Sort of like a merc character jack!

[MadJack]

This is looking great. I can't wait to see it finished and painted! Where is the head from? It looks familiar, but I can't quite place it...

[Swift2568]

Uhg, been delayed by a number of projects. Current status is that the Talon is primed and ready for paint.