What's special about Maelok?

[Lanz]

Okay, so this question has been nagging at me for a while. A lot of people seem to think Maelok is a pretty good warlock, and I just can't see why. I've seen his rules, I know what he can do, and a local player even plays him as her primary warlock, but I just cannot see what would make him appealing in any way. I look at him and just see a weakened cross between the High Reclaimer and Testament of Menoth. He has some handy buffs, but nothing over the top, and most of his key features are things that other characters in the game do better.

In particular, his melee ability makes me scratch my head. I get that he has a nifty debuff that's effectively a +2/+2 for him, but his MAT is average and his PS is poor aside from that. Even with his high amount of base attacks, I don't see how he even competes with mid-tier melee casters/locks, much less it actually being something he's supposedly good at.

So what am I missing here? What brilliant synergy am I not noticing that makes this warlock compete with Barnabas?

[drachenfels]

he takes an already survivable unit of gatormen and makes them nigh unkillable with the unit sitting at arm24 and incorporeal on feat turn if needed to hold an objective.
Also he takes wrastlers and their throwing or any gatormen and makes it MUCH easier to get to their target... like the enemy caster.
Ever have the flying gator tactic not look apealing cus the enemy caster had a couple infantry sitting infront of him you just couldnt get rid of?? now picture that situation but change it to that you CAN MOVE THROUGH THEM!
his feat is massivly powerfull both offensivly and defensivly if needed allong with a good spell list and access to infaction best heavy infantry in the game combined with some great beasts and one of the best light beasts in the game (bull snapper)

[Lanz]

So he's just the Testament, but with more feat-based attrition at the cost of reliable soul-collection?

[drachenfels]

So he's just the Testament, but with more feat-based attrition at the cost of reliable soul-collection?

and with access to reach on all attacks, higher armor, respite or concealment and still transfer.
dont think of him as a massive beatstick himself... he is an enabler. he makes everything that gators do and want to do better and more reliable.

[Fedora]

Yeah, he's basically a Poor Man's Testament, however having access to Gatorman Posse changes things some.

I'd way way prefer the ability to get souls from your own army since its more reliable and less dependant upon your opponent messing up (Though I guess he couldn't just have 'reclaim' with all our access to undead now.) but being able to steal fury from a fully loaded beasts by dealing the finishing blow, and then spending it all to revive gatormen posse can be a game ended. After buying attacks, the few times I've ever gotten him to a beast thanks to his low threat range, I can usually revive 2 gatormen into the most crucial unit and turn it completely around.

I'll probably be running Pendrake with Maelok for those 'high def warbeast emergencies' if I can't knock them down for whatever reason (they usually have low armor so he can take them if he hits) thanks to how much I miss needing 6s to hit. Or as snake eye insurance in general.

[drachenfels]

Yeah, he's basically a Poor Man's Testament, however having access to Gatorman Posse changes things some.

I'd way way prefer the ability to get souls from your own army since its more reliable and less dependant upon your opponent messing up (Though I guess he couldn't just have 'reclaim' with all our access to undead now.) but being able to steal fury from a fully loaded beasts by dealing the finishing blow, and then spending it all to revive gatormen posse can be a game ended. After buying attacks, the few times I've ever gotten him to a beast thanks to his low threat range, I can usually revive 2 gatormen into the most crucial unit and turn it completely around.

I'll probably be running Pendrake with Maelok for those 'high def warbeast emergencies' if I can't knock them down for whatever reason (they usually have low armor so he can take them if he hits) thanks to how much I miss needing 6s to hit. Or as snake eye insurance in general.

not needed to get that complex. just have his or WE's bull snapper just slam it.

[Hoyled]

So far the soul collecting and fury snatching have turned out to be rare treats for me. What Maelok does well is attrition early and then do a nasty assasination run. His ideal turn usually has him reviving a posse member into line of sight of the enemy caster, feat, and let the incorporal posse go to town.

On paper and in a void he is kinda vanilla, or as vanilla as an undead voodo gator can be. Maybe Neapolitan is the correct ice cream flavor for him, three great faction tastes in one, Menoth Cryx and Gators. Put him into the framework of the faction and he turns out to be alot better then you'd think at first glance.

[drachenfels]

So far the soul collecting and fury snatching have turned out to be rare treats for me. What Maelok does well is attrition early and then do a nasty assasination run. His ideal turn usually has him reviving a posse member into line of sight of the enemy caster, feat, and let the incorporal posse go to town.

On paper and in a void he is kinda vanilla, or as vanilla as an undead voodo gator can be. Maybe Neapolitan is the correct ice cream flavor for him, three great faction tastes in one, Menoth Cryx and Gators. Put him into the framework of the faction and he turns out to be alot better then you'd think at first glance.

actually the ideal turn is:
bog troggs come out from ambush in the back arc of the enemy caster
maelok feats, charges a finnishes a beast, spends fury reviving X gator posse
troggs charge caster from behind and combine to do as much damage as possible (to soak up fury for transfers, trigger odd effects like madrak's amulet, or Vlad's counter strike thing) then wrastler charges in boosts to hit on a deathroll, buys more bite attacks
Snapjaw charges and attacks with tail at reach to knockdown
posse charge in and finish

- the situation has never gotten to that final stage.

in summation - maelok plays like a brick that then just walks through the enemy army and gangbeats the enemy casters face in till it is unrecognizable.

[Hoyled]

Yeah your turns better. Though you forgot to mention starting with an extra 6+ fury from killing off a squad of something or others. Ill concede that mines just a good turn for Maelok.

[Lanz]

Interesting. So he's not really that spectacular. He's just good enough to actually use, and people like him because he's new?

[drachenfels]

Interesting. So he's not really that spectacular. He's just good enough to actually use, and people like him because he's new?

he isnt that spectacular on his own, he takes a really good unit and some good beasts and makes them just insanely good.

[Hoyled]

Spectatular, no. Interesting and unique spell list and feat, maybe . Solid and fun to play yes. Big undead voodo gator, awesome.

[miker1]

If you want "that! spectacular, minions are not the place to come! :>}

[ColdYinTiger]

From what everyone seems to feel about him, he doesn't seem to look great on paper, but he works rather well in application. Venom is nonexistent to most people, though works as a magic shot in a pinch. It's mainly about making a unit undead and durable, reviving when you need to and if you get the opportunity to, use Malediction to gather a few souls (14's do a pretty good job at eating regular infantry), or using him as something to debuff a hard target if your ballsy enough and have just about any other model do the work of killing the model/s in question.

[Loki_333]

My experience is that he hangs out just behind the Death Pact'd Posse and plays close support as you shove them down you opponent's throat. Generally means he needs 2 fury for transfers and he's as fury hungry as most 6 fury/focus locks and casters. It also dictates that I usually have to run 3 Bull snappers for animus generation and to shuffle the damage around.

[PG_Steampunk Jim]

So he's just the Testament, but with more feat-based attrition at the cost of reliable soul-collection?

Protectorate doesn't have gatormen posse. Protectorate doesn't have a single choice that's a better incorporeal assassin than Gatormen. That's what makes Maelok better, in my opinion.

[Maou_Mint]

For my own 2 loas, Maelok's feat is a lot less matchup dependant than Bloody B or Calaban. Bloody B's feat is defeated by knockdown immunity, which is getting pretty widely available at this point. Calaban's is dependant on killing lots of infantry or models and spellcasting. Both of which can be hampered by opponent's lists. Maelok's feat on the other hand, basically buffs my own forces and is somewhat harder to disable, particularly due to the ability to deny incorporeal being less widely available and that we use a fair amount of obstructions and obstacles in our meta. When I throw Feralgeists into the mix, his feat becomes just plain mean as it will force my opponent to devote extra resources to destroying key beasts that now have an extra two armor when they come back to contest an objective or control area. Additionally, as a Cryx player, half his spell list is very familiar to me and I'm a big fan of Malediction so that helps.

As to his other spells, Revive is awesome with Gatormen and Death Pact is wonderful period. In Hordes only events, where there are a lot of anti-living model bonuses, the ability to make a key beast or unit undead is dang powerful. Even in WM/H events, it's still useful either for denying souls to my opponent, or abilities such as anatomical precision and the like. Basically, for me at least, he brings a lot of added longevity to the faction.

As to comparing him to the Testament...I wouldn't. The factions are very different, with very different support and units. Gators don't have the kind of cheap mass-infantry that Menoth does in the form of Zealots so Reclaim wouldn't be nearly as useful. Yes, I'm aware that model for pt Swamp gobbers are cheaper, but they have a comparatively non-existant offensive punch and I can't see myself ever transporting even 4 pts worth of them to a tourney, let alone the 6 or more pts worth of Zealots I often see. I find Maelok is at the fore of my battlefield eating key enemy warrior models and debuffing, so Cull Soul has worked well for him, better than it has for most of my Cryx casters actually.

So is he Carver good? IMHO, no. Good gravy no. But he's my favourite caster for Blindwater with a spell-list I'm comfortable with, a feat that works better against the common matchups in my local meta, and a cool looking model in general. All reason enough to take and love playing with him. That he r

[Fedora]

so Cull Soul has worked well for him, better than it has for most of my Cryx casters actually.

I'm actually surprised by how many souls I've gotten with Maelok with cull soul because of how rarely I get any with Cryx casters, though I don't think I've ever gotten him over 10 fury at one time.

In just one game against menoth (was pretty great getting half the souls a reclaimer should have gotten.) I basically beat the total record I've had with any one cryx caster in ALL my games with them. With cull soul I mean. Lich Lords don't count. Of course, that might only be because he isn't really a cryx caster who I can play ten miles in the back despite having similar defensive and melee capabilities. So being 'forced' to play riskier moves by putting him so close to the front end up having some pay off. (Though having all those medium based multiwounders making him a whole lot harder to get to even with heavy jacks makes things quite a bit different... And cryx doesn't have those amazing little gobbers.)

[brotherscott]

I think Maelok is just more fun and interesting to run that Barnabas or Calaban. The other two aren't really much of a mystery to field- Advance, Buff, ???, Profit- for the most part. Maelok ends up being more of a tool-box warlock; able to work around a lot of things my opponents can throw at me, not to mention the aforementioned synergy with a Gatorman Posse. Being able to revive one each turn and make my opponent spend resources and energy on killing a model again seems to be well worth it.

And really, Maelok is just a lot of fun on the table, regardless of what he looks like on paper.

[Lanz]

Protectorate doesn't have gatormen posse. Protectorate doesn't have a single choice that's a better incorporeal assassin than Gatormen. That's what makes Maelok better, in my opinion.

Blessed PS15 MAT 9 lances?

[drachenfels]

Blessed PS15 MAT 9 lances?

as large bases and 2 more points for the same number of models

[TheLoki]

Short answer. Nothing. There is nothing special about Maelok. But that in a way is his strength. He takes our stupidly tough posse and makes them even more of a pain in the ***.

Maelok exists to buff posse armor and give them shenanigans on the feat turn. All in all however i find him a bit lacking in some ways. Not that he's bad (he isnt exactly good either) but he feels like he is missing something

[PG_Duckboy]

He is definetly missing something but after playing him 8 straight times at 35/50 and going 7-1, I was satisfied with him as a warlock for gatorz. He works, maybe not at top performance just yet but defintely gets by.

[Lanz]

as large bases and 2 more points for the same number of models

And tall in the saddle, and higher speed, and pathfinder.

Both units have their advantages, but I don't think gators outclass vengers to the point that is going to make a massive difference in this application.

Anyways, I think I've sated my curiosity. I'll just have to rope the hapless gator players into first-hand demonstration now.

[drachenfels]

And tall in the saddle, and higher speed, and pathfinder.

Both units have their advantages, but I don't think gators outclass vengers to the point that is going to make a massive difference in this application.

Anyways, I think I've sated my curiosity. I'll just have to rope the hapless gator players into first-hand demonstration now.

it was speaking in the context of being incorporeal charges so pathfinder doesnt matter (and gators can get it anyways), gators can go coldblooded for rerollable mat7 attacks and against living targets still move 10" then reach ontop of that.
AND being medium based models have a much easier time ganging up on smaller based targets and sitting their bases in a crowded board. this medium base thing is HUGE when it comes to threat IMHO just because of this. the smaller the bases to fit in the better.

[PG_PrOtOcoN]

I find it silly to compare Maelok to a Warcaster in a different faction, I guess the point is to have some point of reference for his performance, as silly as that is.

I find that Maelok slots admirably in our Gator lineup; Barnabas is our combat monster, Calaban our spellcaster with Maelok being our buff-slinging zombie. I like that he doesn't directly compete with Barnabas or Calaban in terms of melee/spell power but he's like a frankenstein mix of the two (fitting, given his current state).

I've played alot of Maelok games and once I realized he was neither Barnabas or Calaban I started to do better. Maelok has his moments when he elasticizes and murders load of infantry for juicy souls or there's even when I slapped Ornery on him and nommed a charging Shredder!
Mostly I have him skulking around with my posse, almost acting like a Posse UA with warbeast support. With army wide movement buffs (which is what I use Incorporeal for mostly) and discounted Witchdoctors (can't believe nobody has mentioned his 3 for 2 sale on Witchdoctors!) Maelok definately fills a role in my lists. Not to mention DEF 15, ARM 20 (22 with Spiny Growth/24 with Death Pact) boneswarms!

Anyways, I think Maelok is a caster you can't judge by his rotting carcass.

[Sellsword]

it was speaking in the context of being incorporeal charges so pathfinder doesnt matter (and gators can get it anyways), gators can go coldblooded for rerollable mat7 attacks and against living targets still move 10" then reach ontop of that.
AND being medium based models have a much easier time ganging up on smaller based targets and sitting their bases in a crowded board. this medium base thing is HUGE when it comes to threat IMHO just because of this. the smaller the bases to fit in the better.

I completely agree here. The base size makes a huge difference. There have been a game or two where the only figure I could get in was a small based one... thank Kossk for Croak Hunters!

[Polar_Bear]

Having played Maelok a bunch the past couple weeks, I guess I can put in my bit as well, which might just be echoes of what's above, but there you are, then.

Maelok doesn't let his army leave the table without having squeezed every single, little, infinitesimal drop out of them first. ---- just never goes away. In a game the other day, playing against Trolls, our forces were slowly making their way towards each other when my opponent got his Fennblades positioned and they charged into me. Thanks to Death Pact giving me ARM 20 gators up front, he basically bounced off. That is to say, he killed 2 of my gators up there. Only problem was, Revive gave me one of them back and then the whole unit slaughtered those Fennblades just right off the board. Then Mulg game in and started acting all a mess, taking out a couple more. Well, Maelok put up Malediction and got in close, then gave me another one of those gators back again and they proceeded to eat Mulg, with the finishers coming from my battle turtle. My opponent chose to call it when a charge from a regular Dire Troll fell about a half-inch short of reaching Maelok in melee (I.E. - it was an inch away from me. ). At that point, I still had much of my army and his was rapidly being eaten.
Nothing flashy. Nothing fancy. Just pure attrition. I ate his stuff faster than he could take out mine (with me bringing back a gator or so every turn).

A game earlier last week I was against Skorne. Because of my feat potential, my opponent was forced to keep his warlock entirely behind a unit of Cataphracts in Shield Wall the whole game. Again, it was a gigantic grind that took quite a while, but eventually my opponent realized that if he didn't go for an assassination run, it wasn't going to end up in his favor. I still had warbeasts and he was pretty much out. I could bring back what dead troops I had but he couldn't. He went for the run, but didn't kill me. He didn't need me to roll out the dice on the other end, as it was pretty much game since he was surrounded by Maelok, 2 Bull Snappers and a Wrastler that could make it's way over.

My initial assessment of Maelok after my first couple games is still pretty much how I feel, but more in a positive light. He's boring.
You look over his card and there's really not much there. Nothing flashy or sparkly or stand-out. Nothing. It's just what it is. A little of this, a little of that. But when you pair up what he does have with what can go in the army, it really works out. Super-armored gators that come back when they die. It's almost criminal.
So I don't know about comparing him to eHR or whatever. That's not really how you're able to work this game. It's much more complex than that. I just know that Maelok does what he does and he's damn good at what he does.

PB

[drachenfels]

You look over his card and there's really not much there. Nothing flashy or sparkly or stand-out. Nothing. It's just what it is. A little of this, a little of that.

prettymuch this.. Maelok is not the massive explosive that destroys some random warehouse... he is the wildfire that starts slow but grows into a raging inferno that just can't be put out and destroys half the countryside.

[Vex]

Interesting. So he's not really that spectacular. He's just good enough to actually use, and people like him because he's new?

If you believe the guys over at Chain Attack, he is the worst caster in Domination. IMO, he is also the worst Gators caster. Calaban may be a mediocre pDenny, and Baranbus may struggle with high ARM, but Maelock is a 6 fury caster whose best feature is a cost 3 spell that he can't really afford to cast more than once a turn. Just my opinion.

[TheLoki]

If you believe the guys over at Chain Attack, he is the worst caster in Domination. IMO, he is also the worst Gators caster. Calaban may be a mediocre pDenny, and Baranbus may struggle with high ARM, but Maelock is a 6 fury caster whose best feature is a cost 3 spell that he can't really afford to cast more than once a turn. Just my opinion.

Can't really argue with this. Maelok overall is very underwhelming and is in my mind without a doubt the weakest caster in domination. This does not however mean he is unplayable. Like I've said before he is missing rules. It almost seems like they took some stuff off his card at the last second (overtake would be fantastic) and did not have time to rebalance him. Either that or they are scared of Posse becoming unstoppable.