Lazar Grigsov Campaign

[quindraco]

In light of our wildly successful bid to see the Black Dragons come into existence, I think we should move on to asking for something else (after saying thank you, of course). It was the nature of our BD campaign that we simply asked for the unit - we speculated about the rules, but did not ask for anything specific; instead, we asked for something PP had already set up in the fluff. I think all of our campaigns should use this method, as reliably PP will ignore requests for specific rules. If we stick to a named something from the fluff, we leave PP maximum creative flexibility.

In that vein, I would like to start a campaign for this fellow. Again, it is important that we NOT specifically ask that he have any special rule in particular - leave that to the company. Instead, do the same thing we did for the BDIFP - just ask for him by name. We should certainly see if we could get him made as a league model in the next league, for example! His fluff strongly implies that he would be a solo, so for the league I'd suggest having him be a character Widowmaker Marksman.

[mcdermott]

I'd like to see him as part of a character UA for WGRC. Basically impressed into service training the winterguard to utilize the new military rifles.

[Hoc Est Bellum]

Why have a rifleman when you could have a Lazar?

I'm in! Someone make a sig banner...

[Hunter]

I bought the Grigsov model a while back to use as a standard widowmaker, just so all four models would be different. Having him as a WM character solo would be awesome, but considering we have the Marksman and other Merc solo options, I don't know how likely it would be. I'm all for it, though!

[Yurimow]

I'm in! Someone make a sig banner...

i'm on it. What should i write?

"I support my IK Khador Sniper"
- Lazar Grigsov Campaign -

something like that?

[Ezeziel]

I'm game! Count me in!

Got the model for my Widowmakers, like some others, hasn't painted it more than 50% yet, but would love to see an Widowmaker UA or such...

[Kommissar Golovko]

Character Widowmaker Solo definitely

[mostholycerebus]

I really can't get behind it until we get something that puts the MoW on the same level as our other infantry. Hoping for a 2nd Joe-like Drakun.

Though, if they produce rules for him, a Widowmaker or WGRC WA would be cool. Kinda like real snipers were originally used, force multipliers for a standard squad.

[tutenkharnage]

Yes! And we shall ask for a new paint job for the Khador gallery, too. All that blue makes him look like he's got a summer home in Cygnar.

[TheButchersHound]

I really can't get behind it until we get something that puts the MoW on the same level as our other infantry. Hoping for a 2nd Joe-like Drakun.

This. 10characters

[PG_LunarSol]

IDK, with Kell we've already got more snipers than we field. At this point I'd rather the campaign be "Thanks so much for listening and giving us the Black Dragons, cause that's totally awesome." I'd rather express my gratitude, at least until I actually have those shields in my hands.

[roddo]

Wgrc character ua would be awesome. Or a widowmaker solo with an elite cadre ability.

[quindraco]

IDK, with Kell we've already got more snipers than we field. At this point I'd rather the campaign be "Thanks so much for listening and giving us the Black Dragons, cause that's totally awesome." I'd rather express my gratitude, at least until I actually have those shields in my hands.

1) Yes, we should say thank you first. PP deserves a lot of gratitude. This does not mean we should stop letting them know what we like.
2) You should not be assuming he'll be a sniper; let PP make his rules. He could easily be a WGRC UA, as others have suggested. PP demonstrated with the BDIFP that they do not mind contradicting established canon to make the model they want to make.

[Tekanan]

I'm in. I really love this model and would like to see it as an official model for Khador in Warmachine.

[Gladius]

The model is fantastic, and I would love to see it as a UA/WA for the WGRC. I'm also in the camp that thinks we have enough snipers - gimme something different!

[tutenkharnage]

I'd just like to note that we still don't know whether PP did this in response to any campaigning or not. They claim to be testing rules and models years in advance, which suggests (a) that they didn't release this in response to any player campaigning or (b) that they didn't test it as far ahead of time as they usually do. If this isn't just a one-off kind of release--if we see similar "hot items" for other factions, or another for Khador, for example--we'll have a more informed idea of how these sorts of things operate. (Which isn't to say it isn't worth the effort! Carry on, komrades.)

[Mustakrakish]

I can't support this as well. We have enough snipers, and he is CLEARLY a sniper (just compare all the widowmakers to the WGRC to the Solo to the IK mini. He has a hunting rifle.

I can get behind something for the WGRC but I agree that MoW NEEEED something. So do Kossites. With all the MoW stuff out, it'd be hard to campaign for something else for them.

Lets bide our time, see what other cool UA tricks they pull with other units and formulate a sweet plan next year.

Unless we are talking Greylord stuff, then I'm down for it RIGHT NOW.

[Josh-o-Lantern]

Make him a warcaster! >.>

[scout's honor]

I really can't get behind it until we get something that puts the MoW on the same level as our other infantry.

What? Drag them down to AK or Kossite level usefulness?

[Marth]

I'm in. I really love this model and would like to see it as an official model for Khador in Warmachine.

My thoughty axectly. The banner should read "Support Lazar being made a model available to Khador".

[Yurimow]

The banner should read "Support Lazar being made a model available to Khador".

a bit shorter?

[mostholycerebus]

What? Drag them down to AK or Kossite level usefulness?

Problem is, both those units are specialist units (and to some extent doomreavers) that get little attention. MoW are sold as a definitive Khadoran unit, get the spotlight regularlly, and are even included in the battlebox as an iconic khadoran infantry unit. They really should live up to the hype that PP has created. They owe it to all the players starting out that get told within 30 seconds of hitting the table that MoW are slow and should be replaced ASAP.

Or, let us field the Cinerators from the battlebox

Some of the kossite UA and WA ideas have been very interesting though. Is like to see them get something eventually.

[IronComrade]

I think we should pick something that has already been a league model in the past. I really agree that some more MoW love would be awesome. Any old timers remember any MoW league solos that we're awesome?

[scout's honor]

Problem is, both those units are specialist units (and to some extent doomreavers) that get little attention. MoW are sold as a definitive Khadoran unit, get the spotlight regularlly, and are even included in the battlebox as an iconic khadoran infantry unit. They really should live up to the hype that PP has created. They owe it to all the players starting out that get told within 30 seconds of hitting the table that MoW are slow and should be replaced ASAP.

Well, I do see MoW played. In fact, I probably see the least-played type of MoW, the Bombardiers, more often than I see Kossites and AKs combined - never mind DC or STs. I don't have a problem with Kossites or AKs being specialist units that are not often taken, but I don't think they're even that. Certainly AKs - what speciality do they even have? - but also the Kossites are just about never taken because of something they do: they're taken only because someone wants to take them, and that someone then tries to find something useful for them to do (usually not very succesfully, and I'm being mild here).

If Kossites had one turn where they could really dish out some damage, just one turn, they'd have a specialty as ambushers. Now they're simply too weak offensively for that and they seem best used to help out with controlling or at least contesting stuff in scenarios (if applicable, since that's extremely situational). If the AKs could debuff, they'd have a specialty in that area. With non-scattering grenades, they're horrible at that though. The WAs actually do provide something that could be considered a specialty in Khador, but that doesn't help the base unit any. They're pretty much just an added cost to pay for the WAs.

To be brutally honest, the MoW are specialist troops for Khador - both in practice and according to the fluff (and being specialists doesn't preclude being iconic). The DC are melee wrecking balls, the STs hold tactical positions and protect casters and the Bombardiers... Well, you got me on the Bombardiers. I suppose they're there to add an extra dimension to what the other two bring. Point is, I do see players put them in their lists for what they do, not just for being a Khador unit they want to play.

[Septimus]

My thoughty axectly. The banner should read "Support Lazar being made a model available to Khador".

a bit shorter?

"I support (if it's not too much trouble) the idea that Lazar [Grigsov] (from the old IKRPG line) should be made available as a model fieldable by Khador (Ideally by being given rules and a stat card) forthwith!"

Punchy, eh?

[DoktorVivi]

He'd probably fit as a kossite UA better than a WGRC one. I would totally take an ambushing sniper that gave them better shooting.

[jameslsummers]

question for yurimow where can i get a copy of your banner?

[scout's honor]

question for yurimow where can i get a copy of your banner?

Right-click the image and click on Properties. That'll give you the URL.

[Yurimow]

Punchy, eh?

@scout: i'm not that sure about the kossites. I personally find it very difficult to win in scenarios, where there are 3 objectives. Maybe its just me, maybe its khador. I don't know. I just see, that i have to keep my guys together, while my opponent have no problems sending a buch of guys to one objective and holding it scoring one point after the other. In this case kossites come in very handy. They contest the objective staying alive and hence contesting for 2 turns (sometimes 3 if i move them well) buying enough time for me to clear one or even two of the other objectives. I agree though, that they usually don't kill anything. If you want them to kill something, you have to use pIrusk because of the feat, and even then, given their low POW, they have a hard time bringing home their points.
Talking about the bombardiers... they do the exact same job as the demolition corps, the only difference is the target: DC's kill heavy low def multiwounders tarpitted by the MoWS', Bombardiers kill light high DEF singlewounders tarpitted by the MoWS'. It is all about that.

... back IT: thx alot PP for giving us the BDIF, if you don't mind, we'd like to see lazar on the table too. And pls don't misunderstand my (our) talking about the kossites in this topic as a request for lazar being a kossite unit attachment or a kossite boosting solo, something like him giving kossites +2 to attack and damage rolls against models in his line of sight or even a kossite version of grigorovich. It really is not like that.

[Shyeel]

Nice model but I'm also looking forward to a MOW oriented support piece.

[Marth]

@Yurimow: Thanks for the alt banner. I do not know yet which I like better.

[Hunter]

How about an alternative league card (for starters) for the Widowmakers, similar to the one we had for the Greylord Dreadsages? They could even be a character unit: give each one of the three (the duplicate doesn't count) a unique name, with Grigsov being the fourth.

[jameslsummers]

that would be nice, our own and better b13th.

[Khador247]

Not that I'm opposed to old Lazar here but he's not a very high priority for me personally. If they do make him at some point I hope he does what the Widowmaker Marksmen should have done which is increasing Widowmaker FA to 2. I don't want to hear a damned thing about them being broken either. I look at the Mage Hunter Strike Force and Gun Mages and the Widowmakers look pretty tame to me.

[Septimus]

Sig'ed, my friend!

[Hunter]

If they do make him at some point I hope he does what the Widowmaker Marksmen should have done which is increasing Widowmaker FA to 2.

That would work for me!

[juckto]

His fluff makes him sound more like a ranking officer.

[quindraco]

While I welcome Lazar in any form, I will say that in general I loathe mechanics that increase FA, as the only way to use the mechanic is to buy models which can only be fielded when the modifier is in play. It really hinders how flexible my spending is, in terms of dollars.

I would prefer Snap Fire for Widowmakers, Prey for Kossites, or CRA for WGRC.

[whats82]

Don't get too greedy..

[Tico Love]

Honestly, I don't believe that Khador needs any more Sniper models or units. But I do like the idea of a UA or Solo to help out the Woodsmen. So I will join your ranks and place your banner on my signature.