Colossals - What do we think of Hyperion?

[Murkhadh]

I do hope these end up being good as I'm beginning to see the game shift back more and more to infantry machine and I'd like to put more jacks on the table.

I honestly think thats the exact issue they are trying to address.

[AJ the Ronin]

Hyperion is the Titan of light, right?

[Kaiser]

Do you think Rahn will be able to Force Hammer a colossal?

[Xarian]

It'll be on a Huge base, so it will probably use the same mechanics as the BEs and be immune to slam/knockdown. So Rahn will be able to hit it with Force Hammer, but it won't have any effect except for the damage roll.

I don't like how it looks, honestly. The Khador and Cryx concept art looks great - Khador is the usual Khador, Cryx looks like some sort of nasty alien creature.

The Ret one looks too much like Onslaught (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onslaught_%28comics%29), who didn't look all that great to begin with.

It's like they ran out of ideas and instead of adding cool new sleek toys, they just tacked on more armor plates (it's like the Artificer TO THE MAX) and moved the Chimera's blades to his fists. I do like the 6 whisker-like things next to his head, however.

Also, if you look in his back, you'll see the little disc things that the Phoenix has, so he's obviously going to be an arc node.

I think that it would look good to remove the top part of the shoulder blades and add a jet pack. Re-do the fists and arms so that they don't look like tree stumps with arm blades glued on the end. Don't let the Ret Colossal look like something that is simply a giant Chimera with more armor spikes.

Summary: shoulders and fists look really stupid. add a jet pack.

[Vail_Nocturne]

It'll be on a Huge base, so it will probably use the same mechanics as the BEs and be immune to slam/knockdown. So Rahn will be able to hit it with Force Hammer, but it won't have any effect except for the damage roll.

I don't like how it looks, honestly. The Khador and Cryx concept art looks great - Khador is the usual Khador, Cryx looks like some sort of nasty alien creature.

The Ret one looks too much like Onslaught (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onslaught_%28comics%29), who didn't look all that great to begin with.

It's like they ran out of ideas and instead of adding cool new sleek toys, they just tacked on more armor plates (it's like the Artificer TO THE MAX) and moved the Chimera's blades to his fists. I do like the 6 whisker-like things next to his head, however.

Also, if you look in his back, you'll see the little disc things that the Phoenix has, so he's obviously going to be an arc node.

Summary: shoulders and fists look really stupid.

They confirmed at Templecon: NO ARC NODES ON COLOSSALS

[Bender_is_Great]

Hyperion is the Titan of light, right?

Correct, and father of the sun.
When I was watching the video I was wondering if they were going to pick a titan name.
Personally I was thinking Atlas, because honestly he looks like he could hold up the whole freakin' world on those massive shoulders.
I really love the model, but then again I often feel like I'm in the minority of liking how all of the ret jacks look.

Well they will not have arc nodes so those vents on the back will be something else.

I can see why they wouldn't put arc nodes on this, but they only other place we've seen those discs is on the arc node jacks.
Where did you see that it wouldn't have arc nodes?

[FranzGrenstein]

Do you think Rahn will be able to Force Hammer a colossal?

I suspect that they will have the same rule as the BE. All pathfinder, no bounuses in melee, can't be screened by smoke/forest templates, no knock down ect. That or some combination of that.

[Rogue Sun]

I can see why they wouldn't put arc nodes on this, but they only other place we've seen those discs is on the arc node jacks.
Where did you see that it wouldn't have arc nodes?

The AFG has a huge disc like that on it and it doesn't have an arc node.

[Xarian]

The AFG has a huge disc like that on it and it doesn't have an arc node.

The AFG's huge disc looks distinctly different from the ones on the back/shoulders of the Phoenix/Chimera. The ones on the concept art for the Hyperion look identical to the Phoenix's discs (inside, near his head) and the Chimera (on the top of his shoulder blades)

[PMAvers]

Man, I want a re-sculpt of all the Ret 'jacks in Hyperion's style now.

Even the ones that aren't out yet.

[clawtooth]

Greek mythology fluff on Hyperion:

Of Hyperion we are told that he was the first to understand, by diligent attention and observation, the movement of both the sun and the moon and the other stars, and the seasons as well, in that they are caused by these bodies, and to make these facts known to others; and that for this reason he was called the father of these bodies, since he had begotten, so to speak, the speculation about them and their nature.

So ... he's smart ... and also father of the sun.

How amazing would combustion be on this thing? I'm thinking it'll have a buff to things around it like the AFG and Pheonix Field would be nice.

Also, 16 force field boxes and I'll love PP 5eva.

[mospookey]

yo dawg, i heard you like shoulderpads...I think it looks sweet, and I will probably buy one. Not sure how often it would see the table, but seeing as we have no idea what the stats/abilities are its a little early to guess.

[clawtooth]

Also guys ... I wonder if 'jack hunter works on these guys ...

If so ... hah hahahah hahahahahahah HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[Gho5t]

Also guys ... I wonder if 'jack hunter works on these guys ...

If so ... hah hahahah hahahahahahah HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

HA! Ossyan feat + MHSF will beat them down pretty well if thats the case! Let's hope!

[solkan]

My only fear is that when I buy one of these, I'll be tempted to sand some of the details off of the shoulders so they're more consistent with the smaller warjacks. And that leaves me feeling a little conflicted.

[Siranaul]

I was hoping that the name Hyperion would be used for Vyros character 'jack.

While they do look sweet. I think it is too early to be bringing out something like this.

As counter-intuitive as it is, I'm a little disappointed that we're getting one. Colossals had been phased out before the elves decided to steal the idea and make warjacks of their own. It seems a little...odd...considering elves wage war in a "bigger is rarely better" fashion.

I agree, this doesn't seem very Elfish.

[Lord Sessadore]

While they do look sweet. I think it is too early to be bringing out something like this.

Hasn't warmachine been out for something like 6 or 8 years now? When was Superiority? (Not being snarky - that was before my time with the game, so I don't really know.)

I agree, this doesn't seem very Elfish.

In PP's defense, things like the Dawnguard or the AFG aren't very Elfy either. Iosans are all about breaking stereotypes Though of course YMMV on that.

[Demeritus]

Warmachine came out in 2003.

As for us getting a colossal there are fluff reasons we know of as to why we could get one. One being the elves did see the effect those things had on the Orgoth. As more of Ios gets involved with the Retribution, more resources become available and as the demands for war escalate bigger things will be necessary. Not to mention with Vyros being our epic in this book and him (likely) becoming the leader of his house and on his way to becoming the leader of Ios what better way to make a show of force to all that the elves are here and ready to kick ***?

On topic

I do wonder if these things will offer any type of army support or perhaps a bit of stealth assistance for us. My main hope is that they can bring the pain while soaking up hits too and hopefully if ours does have a forcefield it has some auto regeneration capability.

[SilentSeph]

My wild speculation: it will have at least 10 force field damage boxes on each side and Phoenix Field

honestly, i am loving the design of it

[jdelrio22]

I predict pillow-fisted pow 17.

[Bald Menite]

It was built by a mad scientist to fight Mothra! Looks good, don't know which 1 to get first Pom or Ros...? Prob the huge Church.
Cheers!

[serrasin]

On another note, since this guy will be in a battle group and can receive focus Vyros now has a best friend.

[PhoenixBlaze]

It does have a sort of kaijin look going on......

I'd take Phoenix Fields over arc nodes on this thing!

I think the clincher will be how much these big jacks are actually just big jacks. With PP trying to maintain balance I imagine jack hunter and the likes will work on them meaning you can still take them down, just in two rounds rather than one!

[John of Arc]

They better be tough. They better bring the pain. And they each better have some sweet special rules attached. If the guns are all just normal guns with larger numbers, I'll be sorely disappointed. However, we already know the Cygnar one has some sort of Storm Relay that it fires thanks to the video preview. And just being a Colossal gives you access to some amazing power attack capabilities. I'm incredibly excited for those. As far as the Hyperion goes, I expect it will have a giant laser as well as s many smaller lasers. I really just want to yell at people about how I'm charging the Yamato Cannon.

[PG_kerensky]

If I was a beating man (which i'm not but I like to take guesses at these things) I'm willing to bet our House Shyeel Hyperion is something of a cross between a Manticore and an AFG.

Meaning

SPD: 5
STR: 12
MAT: 7
RAT: 6
DEF: 10
ARM: 19
Field: 16 (with less hull)

Main Gun: RNG 14, POW16, AOE 5 with blasted earth
2x RNG 10, POW 12s with Covering Fire option

2 Melee Glaives P+S: 18, maybe combo strike (ouch)

No guesses on abilities, but I don't think PP will dissapoint.

Ossyan just made a new best friend.

[Calcifar]

I predict pillow-fisted pow 17.

Na, probably pow 18 to 19 while all other colossals get pow 22 to 25.

But then to "even " it out, the Hyperion will recieve a range 12 gun with pow 16, field dependant.


gogo last thought-underplayed-faction.


on Topic :

I felt the design on both the Cygnar Colos and the Hyperion were a bit lazy. Then again I also thought the Menoth version just lookedl ike an overgrown Avatar.

Heres hoping that Ret will actually receive many new units and Warcasters in colossals, to level the playing field to other factions and make ret feel more like a faction, than some afterthought to satisfy the need of elves in a fanatsy setting.


Looking back at Wrath though, more likely it will just be more stuff with identity crisis and one more caster like any other faction.



I love PP but when it comes to Ret, their lack of propper direction and support of this faction aggrivates me.


Now, where is kallas to tell me that Im very wrong.

[AJ the Ronin]

I'm not Kallas but I too think you're very wrong.

[Demeritus]

I'm not Kallas either but I do think you are wrong as well. I don't find we have an identity crisis as we are an army of combined arms with shooting and melee with versatility and some tricks that other factions are envious of. We do have some weaknesses and some issues but a lot of that is due to this faction being new and having less expansion books behind it which is where the big 4 have an advantage over us in that many of their weaknesses have been addressed but with Colossals they will have 6 expansion books behind them plus their forces book whereas we have just our forces book and then Wrath and now Colossals.

[Calcifar]

4 have an advantage over us in that many of their weaknesses have been addressed but with Colossals they will have 6 expansion books behind them plus their forces book whereas we have just our forces book and then Wrath and now Colossals

Thats my point, why isnt PP adressing this differencem ore actively? Ret should be getting more than one caster in Wrath and more units etc. Ret has to catch up in order for people to feel more comfortable with the faction, doesnt pp see that ?


Sorry to derail this thread off topic.

[Lord Sessadore]

I think the main problem with trying to do that (ie - giving Ret twice as much of everything in each expansion, or along those lines) is that, because of the time required to design models and iron out their rules, they can only put so many new releases into a book (talking about all factions' releases combined here). If they were to give Ret 2x what the other factions got, it would necessarily mean they couldn't put out as much stuff for each of the other factions. Given the fact that Ret players represent less than 1/5 of the total Warmachine players, IMHO, I think that gives too much potential for all of the other players to gripe about it. Not to mention it isn't particularly fair to them - do they deserve new things less than we do, just because they have more options? Everyone likes new shinies.

Also, PP did give us quite a few more releases in Wrath than everyone else got, even though PP said that they wouldn't be giving Ret special treatment with number of releases. If anything, this says that they are indeed trying to catch us up, but due to the nature of how expansion development has to work it will take some time. As in, 3-4 years minimum. Be patient - it took the original 4 factions around 8 or 9 years to get the stuff they've got currently, there's no way they can even us up in 2-3 years. Unless they only released Ret stuff for those 2-3 years, but I think we all know the likelihood of that, haha.

EDIT: To get back OT, I really hope we get higher than P+S 18 on those glaives. Especially since I have a feeling these things are going to be like the Wraith Engine in melee, and each arm will only be able to target in its half of the front arc (which may mean no combo-strike as well, which wouldn't make me sad). And if our Colossal only has STR 12, I am going to be a little bit irked. There's no reason that thing should have a 50-50 chance in an arm wrestle against a run-of-the-mill Juggernaut. Unless they get a special bonus to STR checks (for throws etc) for being a Colossal, I guess, but still.

[Demeritus]

Ret is not underpowered in my opinion and I have faced good players and I have won and lost against them. No one in my meta thinks Ret is anywhere near underpowered there are things they could use but certainly not underpowered. PP gave us more warjacks in Wrath than any other factions so it's not as though they are leaving us behind. I too would like some more warcasters as well but I knew before I picked this army up that they would always be behind in some cases.

We will have our problems addressed in time and who is to say that even though we only get one warcaster we won't get our character unit or get some things to help us with our stealth problems?

[Siranaul]

Hasn't warmachine been out for something like 6 or 8 years now? When was Superiority? (Not being snarky - that was before my time with the game, so I don't really know.)




In PP's defense, things like the Dawnguard or the AFG aren't very Elfy either. Iosans are all about breaking stereotypes Though of course YMMV on that.

In relation to battle engines, it seems like they weren't given enough time. Domination will only have had about 6 or so months with theirs by the time the colossals are printed in the books. It just seems like PP should have waited another year or two.

Not to mention that they still have other issues to work out. It will be March until everything, or nearly everything, will be released that was in Wrath. When was Wrath issued? Late summer, like July or August? PP should work more toward releasing the models that they publish in their books. Than bringing in the latest and greatest things. I'd rather see PP straighten out their problems with slow productions and shipping. I've had friends wait 3 months for their models to get to his game shop. GW has the same problem. They make rules for models that they don't have time to produce. Given PP's good history and reputation. I'd hate for them to fall in the same hole GW has.

[Kallas]

Now, where is kallas to tell me that Im very wrong.

Hah. I'm not going to have any answers for you, we haven't got a picture of the finished model, let alone any rules. I think AJ and Demeritus have it right though, I doubt PP will let us down.

[Zakion]

i hope all colossals have an abilty called something like heavy armour where infantry weapons are basically like poking a giant with a stick and warrior/infantry/solo etc etc model attacking it minus -4 for example to the damage, that way it can stay sensible and be armour 20 and not scew the game up with going armour 24 against everything but might help reduce the spam of infantry.

[Murkhadh]

i hope all colossals have an abilty called something like heavy armour where infantry weapons are basically like poking a giant with a stick and warrior/infantry/solo etc etc model attacking it minus -4 for example to the damage, that way it can stay sensible and be armour 20 and not scew the game up with going armour 24 against everything but might help reduce the spam of infantry.

This is a contradiction in itself. The idea was to not make colossals a required piece to own to compete, if you make them essentially immune to infantry you are now making them required.

[AJ the Ronin]

Won't happen. People were hoping the same for battle engines and didn't happened. Also the video mentions that the huge damage grid, thresher power attack and the colossal slam are the mitigating factors vs infantry swarms.

[Nixon]

Generally I do not like the concept of bigger models, they are not really miniatures are they?
That said I have confidence in PP, so I do not fear this new addition to the game, but I will probably not go out and get one.

[darkenn]

1. Painting that "thing" is gonna be a pain!
2. Its a jack, just bigger.
2,5. I`m happy if that "thing2 has higher than p+s 12 attacks.
3. Painting that "thing" is gonna be a pain.

But lets look at it from gameplay pov. There is no way in hell PP are gonna stop infanty swarms. Infantry swarms = more RL gold! Also making a really big jack that hits like a truck and can take a beating will just prolong the game with 1 mod. How stupid is a game when each side had 3 models on the field hitting on each other, and letting the dices determin the outcome of the game?

Im hoping for a melee battle engine that isnt Khador look alike normal jack. Something with less of and assasination range, but with a few tricks up its sleve. RoS is, and has been the "pull an escape/kill out of your ***" faction. Giving ut a huge meele beast will wreck the feeling. Tho I wont ever object to a bigger and better Pheonix.

In advance sorry for the english, writing on my phone.

[bakaryu]

Personally I love the looks of Hyperion and am definitely looking forward to picking one up.

A few interesting thoughts about how he interacts with our current warcasters:

Vyros
Ability to ignore line of sight, also his front arcs extend 360 degrees and colossals all have reach and access to a thresher power attack

Ravyn
I expect at least two guns on Hyperion so unless they are sprays she has another snipe buddy who will hopefully be pretty tasty on her feat turn

Ossyan
Possibly the best for keeping this giant bullseye alive with Admonition for melee and the usual dual defense/offense nature of his feat. Plus as I said under Ravyn I expect multiple ranged attacks so he will get better mileage out of Chronomancer

Garryth
Nothing like a massive block to screen line of sight to him, though personally I don't think he is suited to Garryth's playstyle

Rahn
Can protect him from being charged, as well as his usual telekinesis shenanigans but otherwise doesn't offer him a whole lot

Kaelyssa
Again a useful feat for protecting Hyperion as well as being able to boast the ability to help him ignore LoS, Cover and Concealment, Witch Hound could lead to some funny moments will need to wait and see

Disclaimer
All of this is based on assumptions of what we learned at Templecon and I reserve the right to pretend that none of what I have said ever happened also doesn't take into account any special rules that Hyperion might have

[Murkhadh]

I think painting the bigger things is easy, I don't have to go blind fitting into microscopic places.