Colossals - What do we think of Hyperion?

[DesertSpiral]

I think it's funny that you know how they said they'd all be between 18-20 points, i bet that means RET=20 points, others=18 points .
Of course i could be wrong here .

[mospookey]

/agree with Murkadh, painting a little larger model will be awesome compared to picking out hairs on something smaller than my thumb.

Something that big definitely needs a larger force field than heavy jacks. Maybe 12 FF and phoenix's ability to heal it without focus.

but that could just be me having very little oppurtunities to "heal" the shields of my jacks as they tend to be focus fired and killed in one turn.

[imomam]

I am really excited about this new model.

I hope it gets a more dynamic pose for its final release.

Any thoughts on a price point yet? If battle engines are a hundred, these are way bigger, I'm worried about $150 or more... the extreme sculpts are what? 65? The colossals are the same detail level or better at twice the size. I'm going to buy it anyhow, I'm just worried how many hours of overtime I'm going to have to work...

[Billingsly]

I think it's funny that you know how they said they'd all be between 18-20 points, i bet that means RET=20 points, others=18 points .
Of course i could be wrong here .

I actually don't know if that will be true. I am inclined to agree simply because that's how it usually is with our models. However, all of the Colossi are purpose-built ranged/melee hybrids so perhaps our usual flexibility tax will be lifted. Again this is complete speculation based off the little information that I have but I'm hopeful that this is the case. (it'll probably come down to special rules).

[PG_kerensky]

I'm hoping the Colossals will be the same price as the Battle Engines.

Yesterday I was going to Melbourne for a bucks party, which a stop at Mindgames to buy myself an AFG. I, of course, jumped on my computer to check the forums, watched the video on the Colossals, immediatly put my money in an envelope on on the fridge with "For a Hyperion" on the front and left.

Vyre jacks will have to hold my attention till Colossals.


Luke

[Lord Sessadore]

Ooooh ...

Maybe with Hyperion we'll have a 'jack that can survive a charge from one enemy heavy. Lol.

[Kalandros]

I'm hoping the Colossals will be the same price as the Battle Engines.

$-wise yeah, under $100 would be reasonable - though I was disappointed by what I got for the price of the battle engine - the Menoth one at least, the big chunk of resines are warped and do not fit properly together, needing a massive amount of greenstuffing to fix the alignment problem...

Sigh... PP, will you ever get to GW-level of quality plastic?!

Anyway, here's a design I'd prefer for Ret's colossal!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21...584819469e.png

The wonderful Xenogears~

[Night Haunter]

I see a few folk here and there that always seem to complain about the shoulder pads on ret 'jacks, and the same is happening with Hyperion.

What I've always wondered is: are there systems in the shoulders?
I think it makes sense, a lot of the myrmidon technology is pretty advanced, if we have glowing power lines, why not have field generators or something in there?
I think it'd be a great place to put superstructure guns on Hyperion. Even without having field generators in the pads, the Vyre 'jacks have big pads too, maybe something else is in there? (I don't mean the gun)

And if the shoulder pads don't have stuff in them, is that where all our hull boxes come from?

[FearLord]

I'm hoping the Colossals will be the same price as the Battle Engines.

I wouldn't count on it - the Khador and Cygnar models at the very least looked quite a bit bigger than Battle Engines... I'd be surprised if they aren't a bit more...

[Marth]

How stupid is a game when each side had 3 models on the field hitting on each other, and letting the dices determine the outcome of the game?

If you are willing to add another zero or two to your 3, then you have the average setup of a 40k game. That should answer your question.

[Mastershake]

Looks like I'm the only one who heard Battlegroup in that video and immediately thought of Witch Hound. Kaelyssa practically dares people to throw spells at this thing.

In general though my concern is that they'll just be Behemoth-esque clones. Might seem like a compliment, but Behemoth is monstrously expensive and has the amazing MAT of 6 and RAT of 4. If this damn thing is RAT 5 there will be obscenities involved.

[High Artificer]

Think Colossals are a fun addition to the game, and can't really see much chance of them hurting the system.

Stoked for Hyperion! I love his look, even the crazy shoulders and head that some people seem to dislike. Wonder if he's supposed to be some kind of collaboration between Shyeel and Vyre artificers, incorporating tech from both. His visual design certainly seems to blend elements.

[Demeritus]

All I can say is, bring on Mecha-Shoulders!

[Billingsly]

In general though my concern is that they'll just be Behemoth-esque clones. Might seem like a compliment, but Behemoth is monstrously expensive and has the amazing MAT of 6 and RAT of 4. If this damn thing is RAT 5 there will be obscenities involved.

I really hope that they wouldn't do this. Admittedly I could see it happening but I feel that would make these sorta pointless.

I mean assuming that they can only get 3 focus from the warcaster that means that only or *maybe two of their weapons will be 100% effective. I already see these things as being focus hog and making them even more focus hungry by giving mediocre combat stats would be disappointing for an 18-20pt model. I'm not saying that they should have MAT/RAT 10 but I don't see why 7/6 would be inconceivable.

Also while I'm on the subject I want all of the colossals to have a way to generate their own focus. I would hope this would be done in a similar way to the Death Jack but I would take anything. Alternatively a focus saving mechanic would be great (powerful attack). I guess we'll see. I don't want these things to be overpowered but I also don't want them to suffer from over-balancing. If we're paying that many points for a model I would hope that it's good at what it does. Besides they look super sweet and I want their stats to reflect that.

[FearLord]

In general though my concern is that they'll just be Behemoth-esque clones. Might seem like a compliment, but Behemoth is monstrously expensive and has the amazing MAT of 6 and RAT of 4. If this damn thing is RAT 5 there will be obscenities involved.

I honestly don't see how it could have a better MAT / RAT than a standard heavy - they aren't characters after all. We'll have to see, but I'd be shocked (pleasantly shocked mind) to see it get better...

[CeltKhan]

I think it's funny that you know how they said they'd all be between 18-20 points, i bet that means RET=20 points, others=18 points .
Of course i could be wrong here .

It means Ret will be 20, but have a 10-point Field on each arc, can spend a Focus to double its STR, can bank Focus, auto-regens d6 on each field each turn, and has 4 RNG 18 POW 16 guns.

Khador will be 20, but with POW 18 guns and STR 20.

Cygnar will be 19, but STR 12 with POW 10 guns. Oh, and electroleap.

Mercs will be 18 points, with a smattering of weird/funny rules that everyone loves.

Menoth will be 18 points, sets everything on the table on fire, STR 25, gain an extra die of damage (cumulative) when you kill something, and gets pathfinder and doubles its Spd when you shoot it.

Cryx will be 18, gathers souls from anywhere on the table, has low ARM, STR of only 17, but can spend soul tokens to go Incorp, and gets 23d20 attacks. Per arc.

[Murkhadh]

If this damn thing is RAT 5 there will be obscenities involved.

This unless epic vyross has some way to buff mat/rat

[Gho5t]

Kaelyssa
Again a useful feat for protecting Hyperion as well as being able to boast the ability to help him ignore LoS, Cover and Concealment, Witch Hound could lead to some funny moments will need to wait and see

Granting Stealth to these things doesn't make sense to me, and also frightens me a bit. I don't want to deal with the Hordes versions of these with Shadow Pack on them.

Witch Hound, though, will be amazing!

For making their own focus, I hope this thing has Kinetic Capacitor and Focus Battery. This thing will be way more survivable than a Hydra!

[bakaryu]

Looking at the art, it is clear to see that all of the Colossals are packing multiple ranged weapons, ranging from four (Stormwall and Adjudicator) to two (Galleon and Kraken).

Considering Retribution methods of warfare (and the way that the force dependent Myrmidons work) I would be massively surprised if we do not have at LEAST three ranged attacks on Hyperion.

[Eponymous]

I think the arms look kind of dumb at the moment - they're Hydra fists with glaives on top. I'd prefer one or the other.
The shoulders definitely look Dawnguard-like to me. The outermost plates look very similar to those of the Scyir.

I'd be fine with a big, punchy, badass Hydra. I'm with Mastershake on the MAT/RAT thing though. Discordia holds a special place in my heart because she can reliably hit DEF 12 in melee and at range.

[Talking Head]

Looking at the concept art compared to the 3d model...

The 3d model isn't capturing it properly. The concept art main body has a Y shape, and the 3d model is heart shaped, so it loses the concept art's repeated Y, with the Y shaped head on the Y shaped body. The tops of the shoulder pads only look like stupid shoulder pads on shoulder pads in the 3d model, whereas they only look like plating on the concept art. Also, the concept art doesn't have an aerodynamic cod-piece, but the 3d model does. The pieces are similar, but the layout of the pieces that makes the look is getting lost.

[Indy]

On a related note, I think I've figured out why the Artificer is 3 points. These things are going to be chucking out AOEs like mad. Force Barrier is going to save many, many lives. Oh, and it would also work on the Hyperion itself, too, so we might have one of the easiest ways to buff it's def.

I do also have a feeling that these may stipulate that you can't give them Stealth. Maybe.

Oh! Same thing applies to the Force Generator and it's slight extra cost. Range extension on all of the Colossal's guns? Yes please.

[Mastershake]

On a related note, I think I've figured out why the Artificer is 3 points. These things are going to be chucking out AOEs like mad. Force Barrier is going to save many, many lives. Oh, and it would also work on the Hyperion itself, too, so we might have one of the easiest ways to buff it's def.

I do also have a feeling that these may stipulate that you can't give them Stealth. Maybe.

Oh! Same thing applies to the Force Generator and it's slight extra cost. Range extension on all of the Colossal's guns? Yes please.

The idea of buffing what is likely DEF 10 to DEF 12 is pretty uninspiring, Disco on the other hand...

[Lord Sessadore]

Yeah, now that you mention it I like the idea of Disco and the AFG's buffs on a Hyperion. More boxes = more attacks needed = multiplying gains from ARM buffs. And if Hyperion has as many guns as most of us suspect it does, adding +2 RNG to all of them is cool.

[Pinegulf]

Didn't range booster work only on Warjacks? In the presentation video at 4.38 it says on the Galleon card "GALLEON mercenary colossal". So... If the type is colossal I'm not set range booser will work.

[bakaryu]

Not only that, but the net gain from the Range Booster on the AFG on a Hyperion is significantly larger than it is on a heavy. Even assuming that the gun is the same range, Hyperion would gain a little under 3 inches more range when B2B than for example a Banshee.

To put it into hard numbers, a RNG12 gun on a Banshee could fire roughly 16" away from the AFG assuming perfect positioning. A RNG12 gun on a Hyperion could fire roughly 19" away assuming perfect positioning.

[bakaryu]

Didn't range booster work only on Warjacks? In the presentation video at 4.38 it says on the Galleon card "GALLEON mercenary colossal". So... If the type is colossal I'm not set range booser will work.

The commentary also says that Colossals are warjacks, gain focus and can benefit from warjack battlegroup spells.

[PG_Sobek]

The commentary also says that Colossals are warjacks, gain focus and can benefit from warjack battlegroup spells.

Maybe so, but the RNG boost is not a warjack battlegroud spell. Honestly, all speculation aside, it will all depend on how the 'Colossal' rule is written.

[Mastershake]

Maybe so, but the RNG boost is not a warjack battlegroud spell. Honestly, all speculation aside, it will all depend on how the 'Colossal' rule is written.

I could see it being affected by things that affect warjacks, but then again I could also see the flipside happening.

-Karchev "I can only tow one of them, but damnit, that's all I'll need."

[Lord Sessadore]

Yeah, it does depend how the Colossal rules are written up. At first I was thinking they would count as battlegroup and have focus allocation, but not count as a 'warjack' because of things like Tow and Disruption. But arguments in the thread in general discussion have made me less sure.

In the GD thread someone said that they wouldn't be able to be moved or placed out of activation, which would get rid of most of the nastier shennanigans possible. Then again, I have no idea how he came by that information.

[joelker41]

And people said we couldn't repel Skorne. Giant bipedal Elephants can suck our Colossal metal monstrosity's behind!

It is a shyeel Jack, saying it won't have arc nodes is a completely random and by my calculation incorrect assumption.

Also pDenny can't do much to this thing with Kaelyssa popping Banishing Ward on it. Also, go ahead and hit me withva spell, it will have witch hound!

This thing + Rahn = win. Polarity Shield would be fantastic on it.

[Gho5t]

The company itself has confirmed it won't have arc nodes, and that no Colossal will have arc nodes. I think that goes beyond the realm of "assumptions".

[Tazymandius]

The company itself has confirmed it won't have arc nodes, and that no Colossal will have arc nodes. I think that goes beyond the realm of "assumptions".

Where is this confirmation?

[Karyle]

Where is this confirmation?

It was given during the Q&A part of the presentation at Templecon. None of them will have Arc Nodes.

[GunSeraph06]

I guess this is PP's way of making up for not being able to use WJ points to purchase BEs?

Also, will these things be characters or something thats more than FA:1?

Lastly, I think 2-handed throws with this thing (and other Colossals) will be insane for being able to range another target with a thrown model...

[John of Arc]

They're FA 2, and yes, yes they will. Spoilers say they get an extra 2 inches to throw and slam distances. They're collateral damage monsters. I may need to play with destructible terrain just because it would be so, so incredibly cool to tear down a house and then spray everything on the other side with laser beams.

[Dregon]

hmmm i guess if i had to make speculations ... i would second the notion that Hyperion contains some sort of shield projection device in a aoe ( perhaps ups def and makes units immune to AOE) judging from the external weapons it will be a Melee powerhouse ( its akin to a shyeel Jack, dont see much vyre ingenuity there). I think this colossal will be a def power house, or he has one kick *** miniature version of the force generator between his shoulders..

[imomam]

Any thoughts about is less than dynamic stance? It looks like its just hanging out in a hanger bay getting worked on transformer style. With those arms, id love a good hulk flex....

[Lord Sessadore]

I imagine that they all had that pose in the 3d renderer. If the preview video is anything to judge by, the colossals will be just as poseable as the current warjacks, if not more.

[Karyle]

Any thoughts about is less than dynamic stance? It looks like its just hanging out in a hanger bay getting worked on transformer style. With those arms, id love a good hulk flex....

Yeah, they were talking about the construction on these being capable of really cool poses. The Retribution warjacks have been (arguably) the most versatile for reposing anyway, and with the way Hyperion looks I'd imagine it's ball and socket all over the place. I cannot wait to see the model!