Hordes Colossals speculation thread

[FeralPrince]

Have we actually confirmed that they're all FA:2? I mean, the way that they talk about the Colossals in the video makes it sound like they're totally unique (for example, the way they talk about "the Conquest" being presented to the people of Khador). But if we know that they aren't characters, then that changes some things.

On another point- don't we already have a Skorne mammoth? I mean, I've played the Witchfire trilogy too, and I thought I recognized that great hulking monstrocity when they released Siege Animantaraxes.

(I just noticed that they didn't just call it an Animantarax- they've left the door open for other types).

I guess it has a different name, but still it looks rather a lot like the mammoth to me. I would expect a Mammoth before a giant, sure, but I was pretty sure that an Animantarax was it.

I'm pretty sure they are going to be unique. As for the skorne mammoth, its completely different from the animantarax. Its basically like some cross between a musk ox and a monitor lizard, only massively larger.... like you could have a picnic on its tongue large. The empire doesnt have very many of them so i guess the wouldnt be completely unique in this case but maybe FA 1 anyway if they chose to go that route. You can see the thing in the monsternomicon 2 an it is described by pendrake. My only concern with it is that if you look at it in the book it is possibly too large to be a colossal (oh the irony). I'm not quite sure how big chilon is supposed to be. Anyway, as for the idea of having a troop transport piece, balancing it would be difficult but doable, and it could be really fun. For instance, maybe you could crew it with venator reivers or something and spend a full round to mount or dissmount from it, etc etc.

[correlation2]

No offense, but I think the Battle Engines have established a uniform FA precedent. As far as I know they're all FA 2. Please let me know if I'm wrong. @_____@; This where some of them are incredibly rare/valuable things like the interred remains of thousands of years dead priest-kings and giant sundials.

[FeralPrince]

well, thats true, i guess its just odd to think of a 20 point thing being FA 2, and it seems like some of them are characters, like the khador jack. i kind of feel like the colossal are gonna be FA 1 or characters, but thats just my opinion... i guess they really werent that clear in the preview whether those things were character pieces or not, but it seemed like it.

[correlation2]

I think they explained in the panel that they are FA2. It is kind of misleading though because they talk about Conquest in the singularly, much like a character. You see the Kraken has two in its image though where they're assaulting the docks. So that's kind of a tip off like the old Storm Strider picture.

It would have made more sense to say "Conquests" at some points, I guess, but that might have detracted from the overall feel of the release. It's supposed to be a centerpiece model that really takes in all your attention. Somewhat diluted if there's 2 of them. LOL.

[Blighted Tyrant]

I think they explained in the panel that they are FA2. It is kind of misleading though because they talk about Conquest in the singularly, much like a character. You see the Kraken has two in its image though where they're assaulting the docks. So that's kind of a tip off like the old Storm Strider picture.

It would have made more sense to say "Conquests" at some points, I guess, but that might have detracted from the overall feel of the release. It's supposed to be a centerpiece model that really takes in all your attention. Somewhat diluted if there's 2 of them. LOL.

Not really:
I have a Honda or a Ford.
I am going to buy a Honda or a Ford.

I am going to field a Conquest or a Stormwall.
I am going to destroy your Conquest or Stormwall.

They are speaking about the concepts and actual model not in the context to FA, it's a reveal vid I'd say wait for the book to see what FA it is.

[Blugger]

Hmm, you know not being an avid troll player probably makes me rightfully ignorant on the matter, but if trolls are somehow biologically related to fullbloods and dires and dires spawn whelps...would it be possible that colossal trolls just spawn trollkin?

Now that'd be a disturbing sight, the trolls essentially bringing their creators to war...

Heads up rest of the world, dhunia is massive and manifests in pairs!

[FeralPrince]

Hmm, you know not being an avid troll player probably makes me rightfully ignorant on the matter, but if trolls are somehow biologically related to fullbloods and dires and dires spawn whelps...would it be possible that colossal trolls just spawn trollkin?

Now that'd be a disturbing sight, the trolls essentially bringing their creators to war...

Heads up rest of the world, dhunia is massive and manifests in pairs!

Im pretty sure trollkin are diluted trolls, like trolls with human or elfin blood or somesuch. Im a little behind on the fluff with the trolls, especially the more historical stuff.

[correlation2]

I don't think the Trollkin have anything to do with the humans biologically speaking, since I don't think Trollkin can actually impregnate human beings. Similarly, they have different soul systems. Trolls are reincarnated and absorbed by Caen very quickly, whereas Humans go off to chill with their gods for awhile.

That being said, yeah, Trollkin are pretty much watered down Trolls. They are less savage and can think and conduct themselves in society. Trolls by contrast are kind of like the Cave Men of humans, but with jacked up physical presences. DIRE TROLLS are the even more prehistoric and jacked up versions of Trolls. They all just exist in the same general time frame. Oh, and Whelps and Pygs are just tiny troll offshoots - literally in the case of Whelps.


---

Well, someone could ask you "how many Fords do you have?" and it would kind of make sense. The Conquest is more of make of car though, than a company name. So it would be like asking "how many f-150s can I afford?" instead of how many Fords.

I'm not personally bothered that Conquest is FA2, I'm just sympathizing with people who might have been confused. It's understandable. Even the main art of the Conquest shows only one on display.

[hurley895]

Ok so I don't play hordes so I'm kinda looking in on this and thinking:

The troll bloods are getting a huge troll. We have seen the picture.

Skorne: Big worm...nah cause it's not going to look awesome enough and people will go "wow dune!". Something with skorne people riding it....just did that. Giant would get fluff nuts fuel forever by what I see here. Hydra open up a can of worms with gw putting one out within the last year or so. T-rex or other dinosaur sounds good. Giant stone guardian works really well cause it built and each would not be a character.

circle: Super wolf? maybe do they go that big? What about a elemental? Wold of some type is do able but they used that card on the battle engine. Tree giant would work really well and Gw has not done one in forever (5 years gamer time).

Legion: Your getting a dragon case they used the weird squid card in the last book twice.

Minions: I'm thinking as a guy looking in you will get something random and not in line with any of the factions in the minions.

Key things I would like to point out is:
It's going to walk on two legs for most of them.
It's going to have a ranged attack.
It won't have people riding it cause your war beasts don't do that. (they are big warbeast not war engines.)

Maybe look toward classic monsters that are huge?

[correlation2]

Shadow of the Colossus style stoneworked rhino colossal. Houses some long-dead skorne berserker who forsoke the structured approach of hoksune but nonetheless felled countless contenders through sheer brutality.

SPD 5 PS 19 can make impact attacks at PS 16 runs and charges for free can collect souls from extollers BLAH BLAH BLAH. D:

[Blugger]

I don't think the Trollkin have anything to do with the humans biologically speaking, since I don't think Trollkin can actually impregnate human beings. Similarly, they have different soul systems. Trolls are reincarnated and absorbed by Caen very quickly, whereas Humans go off to chill with their gods for awhile.

That being said, yeah, Trollkin are pretty much watered down Trolls. They are less savage and can think and conduct themselves in society. Trolls by contrast are kind of like the Cave Men of humans, but with jacked up physical presences. DIRE TROLLS are the even more prehistoric and jacked up versions of Trolls. They all just exist in the same general time frame. Oh, and Whelps and Pygs are just tiny troll offshoots - literally in the case of Whelps.

Man troll biology is confusing

Though I think trollkin have to be at least somewhat similar to human kind, otherwise god knows what Boomhowler is doing serenading them on his off hours

Still, seeing kin sized whelps is going to cause at least one or two kin to go into some sort of philosophical crisis, or at least make them worry a little more. Warbeasts are essential to their war efforts, but the fluff doesn't paint the kin as too comfortable with their bigger cousins' eating habits.

Well, there's that and the fact that with colossal trolls must come another iteration of doomie, since he was the come to introduce dires into the war effort in the first place it only makes sense that he'd get their even bigger cousins involved.

[correlation2]

I'm still betting on these new massive trolls being avatars of Dhunia. The Trolls are kind of like... the pet race of Dhunia. Supposedly sprung from her when she was raped by the Devourer Wurm. Their souls literally sink into the ground when the die and presumably refuel the planet, which in turn somehow ends up spitting them back out into baby trolls.

Speaking of which, the fellcaller caste ( at least in Boomhowler's case ) follows after an infamous womanizer. The guy ( sorry I can't remember his name ) went around really enjoying life, and that meant partying and partying meant girls. I suppose he found them all appealing in their own ways, and physically the differences lent themselves variety I guess. Without being too explicit, the mechanics would remain similar even though the two races aren't compatible for the sake of reproduction.


It's kind of like Boomhowler is the equivalent of a troll rockstar of that era. Women love rockstars, rockstars love women, it's an endless cycle.


I never really though about giant limbs turning into full-sized Whelps though. Or rather, Trollkin sized Whelps. It would probably be even more grotesque than normal, but could be funny. Whelps and pygs are generally kept around and treated fondly. Unfortunately, Whelps are pretty short-lived even without considering the fact that they are live snacks. Trollkin and Trolls are live snacks to Dires as well, so, chances are the Trollkin sympathize with Whelps. Doomshaper appears to be the only thing/person the Troll race has ever regarded as "not food" which is noted to be an extremely abstract concept to them.

This in a race where Mulg goes around routinely eating Dire Troll Maulers/his mates/his kids/pretty much everything.

[odinsgrandson]

Do we have real confirmation that they'll all be FA2? Was it at the panel, or do we think it was? Or is it speculation based on the Battle Engines (which, I have to say, simply are not an indicator).

Overall, I can't help but think that there's pretty much no reason you'd want to field two of these monstrocities. I mean, if you're paying 20 points for each, and you field two, then that could be an entire 35 point force, or pretty much all of a 50 point force all by themselves.

It does strike me as odd that the Behemoth is unique, while this much larger 'jack is being produced in high enough quantities that a given warcaster might have two.

...the fellcaller caste ( at least in Boomhowler's case ) follows after an infamous womanizer. The guy ( sorry I can't remember his name ) went around really enjoying life, and that meant partying and partying meant girls...

His name was Bragg. Isn't that a great name for a womanizer?

While he was a womanizer, that's not the same thing as saying that he was into wooing all sorts of women. Indeed, Bragg had many offspring with many a trollkin woman, but the fluff doesn't necessarily say that he was wooing human, gobber, elf or ogrun women.

[PG_The Captain]

It does strike me as odd that the Behemoth is unique, while this much larger 'jack is being produced in high enough quantities that a given warcaster might have two.

Think about it this way: The Behemoth (and Thunderhead) were just the prototypes. Behemoth was considered too expensive to mass produce back then, but with recent advances in technology, it has become more cost effective. And in typical Khadoran fashion, good ol' "Uncle Vanja" Blaustavya decided to build the new model even bigger.

[Gavriel]

Perhaps the big troll isn't from Western Immoren. They've stated that Mulg is the biggest dire troll in the Iron Kingdoms, but trolls are also stated to live everywhere in Caen who knows where Madrak went off to. Could be they found a new species of Troll in the southeast.

[Solarhaphaeriom]

Do we have real confirmation that they'll all be FA2? Was it at the panel, or do we think it was? Or is it speculation based on the Battle Engines (which, I have to say, simply are not an indicator).

It was at the panel.

[Ragged]

Is there more than one Worldwrath? I thought it was unique.

[Defenstrator]

My suspicion is that the Legion ones will be grown from the teeth Kallus brought back. My great hope is that they will be mini-versions of Everblight. Avatars that will finally fullfill the wish I've had since Primal to get an actual dragon.

What I hope they're not is more tentacles. I don't mind the Throne, but I want a sleek, angular, shark, not yet more fodder for hentai jokes.

[correlation2]

His name was Bragg. Isn't that a great name for a womanizer?

While he was a womanizer, that's not the same thing as saying that he was into wooing all sorts of women. Indeed, Bragg had many offspring with many a trollkin woman, but the fluff doesn't necessarily say that he was wooing human, gobber, elf or ogrun women.

Thanks!

Again, without being too crass, a woman is a woman as a man is a man. Just because they can't have babies doesn't mean they can't... uh... get along. In any case, variety is the spice of life for some. It's noted in real life that conquerors and such had a variety of slaves of different kinds, and old warrior kings could concubines from their conquered territories. Similarly, if you plopped an elf down in real life most guys would probably still be interested ( maybe even more so! ) to say nothing of all those other popular character designs like... catgirls. :P

Long story short the ladies love Boomhowler, and Boomhowler loves the ladies. He's a worldly troll with worldly tastes.

[OniBeowulf]

-Trollbloods-

-Skorne-


-Circle-

- Legion of Everblight-

- Minions-

Trolls - I think this this is a savage. I think Mulg is the biggest and oldest "sentient" Troll. If you noticed it has chains all over it so I think it was a beast locked away because of how savage it was but now the trolls need extra help and have run out of options.

Skorne - A lot of people are saying the giant but I just feel it is kinda dumb and the model is going to look so out of line with the rest of the models unless they have it decked out in a large version of "cyclop armor".

Cirlce - As soon as we saw the colossals the first thing we thought about for Hordes is the Woldwrath. I think that is what is going to be hands down.

Legion - Legion is kind of the wild card...I don't think anyone had the legion battle engine in mind before it came out. I'm not sure here but I'm sure it is going to be big and blighted :P

Minions - I don't think they'll get a Colossal but I think they will get a Battle Engine each instead. (That is our guess for Seaforge too since they can't use the colossal.)

[Darxyd]

1. Trollbloods get a monster troll that eats terrain pieces (including drinking up rivers and waterzones) to heal.
2. Legion gets a Throne converted into an aircraft carrier.
3. Tree-huggers get a tree....a big one.
4. Skorne gets an actual Oliphant like the ones in that "ring" movie.

[correlation2]

I wouldn't mind a massive hanging tree kind of offshoot of the evil tree guy. It could spawn tonnes of mannikans or skeletons and hurl them at the enemy. That would be fantastic.

[Demonster]

Alright, I'm willing to throw my hat into the ring.

CIRCLE: As far as to my knowledge, they never have fused humans with their rituals longer than they have to to make Warpwolves, so they may or may not have a size limit. Since they made the Fulcrums, I would not be surpised it being a Wold gigantic who-knows-what. Especially if they are intending to keep the same approach as Warmachines, this makes it easier to imprint mystical runes on it for the artillery. (Based off of the image I saw on the Retribution's model.)

LEGION: Please no more tentacles cuz it's really racking the perverted minds. That being said I doubt it will be a full grown dragon since if it had wings and could fly, "Ok, turn 1 I charge your warcaster over your army lulz".... Yeah, that doesn't look pretty. So I'm looking for a dragonspawn with multiple heads to rain down more breath attacks to keep up with their artillery, but it would be redundet with Typhoon. Maybe Thagrosh will have another appetizing Athanc and become it (insert print of seperate book to explain all shenanigans here). Either way, I find it difficult to imagine what they could make without Nyss Sorcerous riding it to supply the artillery so I intend on being surprised by what they produce here.

SKORNE: Please no Mammoth or T-Rex. A mammoth sounds more like the next battle engine when Skorne decide to invade the mountains and go after Kallus or any of the athancs for their wonderous abilities. As for a T-Rex.... It would only have 1 bite attack per turn and quite frankly I love the image of titans out muscling it just fine. That being said, I propose that Rasheth open up his house and demonstrate their grand beast handling skills and reveals giant titans. As cool as an idea of an Ancestrial Guardian would be, it doesn't suit the theme for me to get a construct for part of the battlegroup, which is reserved for Circle. Other than a giant titan with extra arms for carrying cannons or some mutagenic growth, I want to see Mordikaar finally prove useful and use the void gate to bring something from the death realm to existence.

TROLLS: Well, the image at the end already spoils it and it is a giant troll. No, bigger. Got that image yet? Ok, now make it even BIGGER. I noticed the muzzle it has on, so they definately must keeping this thing on a leash due to it's extreme aggressive nature. Whelps (sp?) riding it may be just for image sakes and hilarity for all I know. A Dhunia avatr sounds more like a character (see Avatar of Menoth) and there fore I leave it to their tiruals to awaken their slumbering ancestors to life and ransacking everything in their path. (Go Borka!)

MINIONS: Surprise me cuz I have no idea other than the good ol' doc making something extremely bonkers for god knows what sake.

I'm trying to follow the pattern and theme PP made other than Cryx's Kraken, so anything is possible, especially Legion's creation process. Also attempting to keep a weapon platform idea so everything has melee and ranged weapons, but with the Kraken and Mercs' Colossal (can't think of name) being things with reach or extended reach or whatever, the concept is difficult without talking to the members of PP themselves.

[katadder]

only a couple of thing for me looking through monsternomicon:

Circle - woldwrath as people have been asking for this for ages and it fits IMO

Skorne - Chimera, big enough and lives in the desert IIRC so tame some of these.

on hordes monstrosities, how much fury do you think? will the likes of rhyas even be able to fully control one or will she need a shepherd/forsaken along?

[2manhunters]

I hope the minions get a GIGANTIC *** FROG! That would be sweet! Like, it's HUGE, and FAT, and it can simply engulf models!

[PG_The Captain]

Skorne - Chimera, big enough and lives in the desert IIRC so tame some of these.

Chimera is unique. It's a broken dragon. Not a good idea to approach, let alone try to interact with.

Slave giants are also quite unlikely, going with the assumption that Hordes colossals will be warbeasts. Giants are not only powerful enough to fight dragons, they are also highly intelligent and civilized. Nothing suggests that they could be broken to become warbeasts, considering that the "civilian" giant Chilon has so far proven to be too much for the painbringers to tame.

The big cannon-beast from the Witchfire Trilogy is my favorite idea so far. Animantarax wasn't quite that.

[yankeefan]

I really doubt we'll be seeing Epic Mulg or Chilon given that both would be FA: C and all of the colossals are FA: 2. There simply aren't enough giants to make them feasible for Skorne (I believe there are about half a dozen). The tyranosaurus like creature from the Witchfire Trilogy with two cannons strapped to its back seems like a good possibility for Skorne though.

I havent read the witch fire fluff yet so the first thing that came to mind was a living Gojulas.

[Wutwut]

Unlike mercenaries, which despite all differences have access to much the same units/jacks, Minions seem hosed...

Unless they somehow manage to work into the story some sort of "compromised" or truce that would explain a giant Gator/thing, made by the doc and possessed by Bakor spirits. But it all seems hard to contrive given their complete lack of a story arc together in Dominion.

[Lich_Lord_X]

I'm very curious how they will make the damage chart. If WM colossals got a sub-cortex will their Hordes counterparts get a new branch?

[odinsgrandson]

By the way, the Giants of eastern Immoren don't look like large humans. They're a little ogrun like- they have three fingers on each hand, no nose and all of the ones that have been shown are completely bald.

I do think that if the Skorne do tame giants, we'll see them wearing larger versions of Cyclopes armor.

Is there more than one Worldwrath? I thought it was unique.

No, a woldwrath is just another type of wold. We've been expecting to see Woldwraths earlier.



So, here's a piece of speculation for you:

If the first wave of colossals are not unique, does that leave the door open for unique ones in the future?

[correlation2]

Aren't there only like 8 giants in total in the IK universe?

[infamousd]

Few more then 8 (at least 6 of note), probably more then a hundred, less then a thousand. However, Skorne grabbed a weakling and they nearly died in the attempt, so a Giant seems unlikely.

[correlation2]

Oh. I thought there were like 8 named Giants and like 6 of them were Guardians, and they altogether hunted dragons or protected the last remaining Giant town. A town which probably only houses like another 20 giants.


Giants are pretty crazy though. Stronger than infernals probably. They can take on dragons in part due to specialization on that front, and just from being extraordinary.

Like one of them can bellow and ground all flying creatures within 1000ft once per day or some crazy stuff.

[Ranhothep]

I am just blatantly gonna quote myself from the Skorne forum:

NO more dinostuff. GET ME A FREAKING SPHINX!!! Just imagine a huuuge obsidian statue geting toe to toe with those puny robots!!! I would even forgive PP for not making our battle engine a cool construct allready. And the uber sphinx would do awesomelicious stuff for our immortals and AGs, making a great competitive monothematic build. omg omg omg it has to be an uberguardian aaahhh. You know, it could even have a damage grid representing chunks of the stone falling off. It makes total sense!!! GIMME GIMME GIMME PP!!!

[Sanguinary Dan]

I'm very curious how they will make the damage chart. If WM colossals got a sub-cortex will their Hordes counterparts get a new branch?

Except it's not a Sub Cortex per se. It's one freakin huge system that you have to destroy both sections of to knock out. I assume über mega beasts will simply have two full sets of spirals. Anything else would put them a major disadvantage against units that choose column or spiral.

[Alex C]

Giants are pretty crazy though. Stronger than infernals probably. They can take on dragons in part due to specialization on that front, and just from being extraordinary.

Like one of them can bellow and ground all flying creatures within 1000ft once per day or some crazy stuff.

Dovahkiin Giant with Dragonrend? Sounds good to me...

[planescapedm]

Molik Karn duel wielding Rhinodons while riding a bronzeback who's riding an animantarax. Oh ya and Molik's wearing Rasheth as a hat.

[Epizeuxis]

Molik Karn duel wielding Rhinodons while riding a bronzeback who's riding an animantarax. Oh ya and Molik's wearing Rasheth as a hat.

Rasheth should be throwing up the horns, just for good measure.

That, or the colossal could be the Karax. All of them.

They lock shields, spears, and limbs together to form Mecha-Karax. With the same stats and abilities of a typical karax trooper (other than speed), it slowly wades through the battlefield, immune to blast damage and laughing at those that once scorned them. However, the sheer number of karax in such close proximity grants it a near-incalculable CMA. Where it goes, only death will follow.

For kicks, it could also give a small buff of some sort to any karax units that didn't want to get in on the Mecha-karax dogpile.

[Necra-Chi]

Aren't hordes collosals going to be called gargantuans?

[Vicomte Athos]

I am just blatantly gonna quote myself from the Skorne forum:

Like a Tomb Sphinx or War Sphinx?