Starting Farrow - grunts of advice?

[pattison]

Oh well, it's somewhat typical... seems like that whenever a Merc player starts hordes he picks Minions.
That's what happened to mee too. Well I like both races, pigs & gators, but finally I ended up with the pork.
Here are some list ideas that I have (I marked the stuff that I'm yet to own with italic).
Would like to try all 3 locks, but I'm planning to buy S&D when the Road Hog comes out (very excited about it!).

Arkadius @ 35:

Dr. Arkadius (*6pts) /Tier4/
* Gun Boar (5pts)
* War Hog (7pts)
* War Hog (7pts)
* War Hog (7pts) (proxied with Brine)
* Targ (2pts)
Farrow Bone Grinders (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Farrow Razorback Crew (Leader and 1 Grunt) (3pts)

This one can go funny @25p with 3 Hogs, Targ, min. Brigands and max Grinders. Still T4.


Carver @35p:

Lord Carver (*6pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Farrow Slaughterhousers (Leader and 5 Grunt) (6pts)
Rorsh & Brine (9pts)
Saxon Orrik (2pts)

Carver @25p:

Lord Carver (*6pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Farrow Razorback Crew (Leader and 1 Grunt) (3pts)
Alten Ashley, Monster Hunter (2pts)
Saxon Orrik (2pts)

Opinions?
Should I go for the Slaughterhousers asap? I simply love the models. Bonegrinder priority? Arkadius just needs them.
Cheers & Oink!

[Rotfell]

Arkadius:
Well, buy you a third War Hog (or wait and see if the Road Hog becomes a set in which you can build either a War or a Road Hog), because you'll end up using Rorsh and Brine with more points. And you should!

Your Razorback don't have AD in the Themforce (even so I'd still play it) and Brigands without CRA might not cut it for you (there are different opinions for that and it has a lot to do with your playstyle).
So consider to make a min Brigand-Unit and swap the Razorback with a Unit Slaughterhousers to get something that can engage enemy infantrie much better (because you don't want to waste your Hogs on them if possible).

The 25pt variant should work good.


Carver:
Ok, these lists won't work imo: You have your speedy War Hogs, which are going into melee, therefore you shouldn't think they'll live long enough to deliver enough fury for Carver (WM-Players tend to underestimate the need of leaching fury: One beast fewer is a source fewer and if you're running a beast full of fury, you can't redirect the damage to it).
You should take another beast, it doesn't really matter if you're using a War Hog or a Gun Boar (since both are fine with Carver), but with that few beasts you'll dry up sooner than you might expect.

I would at least use 2 units of brigands to benefit more of the elite cadre.

Saxon Orrik is pretty good if you're using Slaughterhousers, without there is much less need for him.


My personal favorite lists with Carver for 25pts and 35pts are:

Carver @25p:
Thornfall Alliance
Lord Carver (*6pts)
* Gun Boar (5pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)

And if you're going to 35pts it's pretty simple:

Carver @35p:
The Golden Horde Tier 4
Lord Carver (*6pts)
* Gun Boar (5pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 5 Grunts) (4pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 5 Grunts) (4pts)
Rorsh and Brine (9pts)
Farrow Razorback (3pts) (giving AD)


These lists are flexible, they're strong and you can compete there for simple casterkill and most scenarios. But that would be for my playstyle, I don't know yours.

[pattison]

Thanks for the sound suggestions Rotfell!

Honestly I myself felt more OK with the Arkadius lists too.
I think I'll try the lists as they are, but I'm planning to buy the Slaughterhousers anyway so the swap @35p that you suggest will be possible.

Yup, the Carver lists you proposed look indeed more solid.
The problem is that even if I understand how he loves Brigands, I'm not planning to buy a 2nd sqad... Slaughterhousers will surely be added to the collection (I really like the models and they'll be needed for S&D and Arkadius too), and they're not cheap either. So I was thinking about a modified Carver list that fits my current collection and includes 3 battlegroup beasts.

Lord Carver (*6pts)
* Gun Boar (5pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Farrow Razorback Crew (Leader and 1 Grunt) (3pts)
Rorsh & Brine (9pts)

Not a tier list though. Do you think I'm missing out on a lot by going for plain Thornfall instead with Carver?
I lose Pathfinder in turn1 and Advance Move on the battlegroup. I gain a more powerful CRA.
Although if I only buy a blister... and convert one grunt slightly... then I can field 2 min units instead of 1 max... hm.

The 25p list with 1 max unit would go something like this:

Lord Carver (*6pts)
* Gun Boar (5pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
* Targ (2pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)

I understand that the Brigands can give themselves Pathfinder, but including Saxon instead of Targ could make the Pathfinder AND Fearless&Tough in the same turn.

Thoughts?

[Rotfell]

Not a tier list though. Do you think I'm missing out on a lot by going for plain Thornfall instead with Carver?
I lose Pathfinder in turn1 and Advance Move on the battlegroup. I gain a more powerful CRA.

Carver theme force isn't a must, it's pretty good if you plan on spamming Brigands (the min units, since you get more for less points) or if there's no reason to not to (like my 35pts-list; in fact I get a rezorback more!).

If you're running slaughterhousers its pretty good if you can AD the, too. I won't run razorbacks if you can't AD it/them.

I understand that the Brigands can give themselves Pathfinder, but including Saxon instead of Targ could make the Pathfinder AND Fearless&Tough in the same turn.

Depends on how much difficult terrain and such you're normally using on the field. Since the beasts can get pathfinder you might end up never using pathfinder on the brigands at all. And Targ can just stick to the beast(s) which aren't using its/their pathfinder at all.

But Saxon can do more than pathfinder, therefore he would still be a solid choice. There it'd be a question of preference, but since our infantry have the habit to be killed quite fast, if you don't watch out, most of his use will end, after the brigands are down, therefore you should consider to combine pathfinder and Hog Wild, to shoot the enemy models and then running into a forest or so, so they have a hard time following you.

But both lists should work fine, as long you're using your AD effectly.

[pattison]

Great, thank you for all the advice!
I decided that I'll buy another blister of Brigands so I can try the 35p Carver tier list you've suggested. It's not a big investment.
Also I think I'm going to test the Arkadius 25 and 35p T4 lists that I've posted, and later when I buy the Slaughterhousers I can drop the Razorback and reduce the Brigands to min so I can include them.
I'm quite happy with these lists now so all I have to do is to purchase that blister and start to assemble the army!
Cheers again.

[pattison]

I've assembled my 2 min units of Brigands, Arkadius, Carver and Targ. Next will be R&B and the Bone Grinders, and I'll leave the War Hogs for last as I'm waiting for a bitz order to arrive from PP as I'll do some conversion work on the big boys to make them look different.
What I've also received recently is my box of Slaughterhousers, and MAN those are some pretty models! I love them!
The Road Hog is also out, but I don't like the model, so it seems like that I'll have to stick my head into further conversions...
The question is: how to implement the Slaughterhousers into my lists? I mean the Arkadius part is already solved, but what about Carver?
I really feel that the Slaughterhousers could do much better with the support of Saxon. What are your experiences with them?

[Hjelmen0]

The lists look good! Go get 'em! *squeal*

[PG_ratch]

I am looking at Playing the Farrow as well. the War-Hog model looks pretty awesome. i was torn between Gators and Farrows... Farrows won. Your info here is helping me build my Carver list =]

[pattison]

Welly, welly, welly, welly, welly, welly, well.
Had a chance for 2 matches with my pigs so far, and have to say that they're pretty brutal.
The 1st one was against pHaley (Cryx player pal starts Cygnar for some variety, so not a refined list yet, but so as mine).

Captain Victoria Haley (*5pts)
* Ironclad (7pts)
* Ironclad (7pts)
* Squire (2pts)
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
* Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts)
Black 13th Gun Mage Strike Team (4pts)
Long Gunner Infantry (Leader and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
* Long Gunner Infantry Officer & Standard (2pts)

I brought this here:

Lord Carver (*6pts)
* Gun Boar (5pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
Farrow Bone Grinders (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 5 Grunts) (4pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 5 Grunts) (4pts)
Rorsh & Brine (9pts)

This is T4.
Well the summary of the match is that I was up-field quite early, and he couldn't do enough damage in his feat turn to severely cripple my army.
I went in, destroyed some stuff and tied him up, so he couldn't get me off the flags. 3-0 by control points.

I only sent in 1 War Hog on feat turn, but he seriously damaged the 2 Ironclads. The army felt very ergonomic, simple and fun to use.

The 2nd game went against eKaya. I swapped the Gun Boar and the Grinders to a 3rd War Hog, and she had the following:

Kaya the Moonhunter & Laris (*3pts)
* Argus (4pts)
* Feral Warpwolf (9pts)
* Gnarlhorn Satyr (8pts)
Gatormen Posse (Leader and 2 Grunts) (6pts)
Blackclad Wayfarer (2pts)
Dahlia Hallyr & Skarath (9pts)

Quagmire proven to be great during this game, forcing her to pop feat early.
I still had all of my War Hogs, so handling her beasts wasn't a big issue except the Feral w/ Forced Evo.
It came in with the feat on +2ARM but it selected strength the turn after to kill one of my Hogs.
On my feat turn Carver really lived up to his title (BMMD) and I slashed 2 heavy beasts with one War Hog (aided by a single yet brutal swing from Carver), 2 lights with another and 2 Gatormen with the Brigands (it's a tad challenging for them to hit DEF13 with melee attacks).

I'm looking forward for more!!

[PG_Dmark]

I NEVER play Farrow without placing 3 War Hogs on the table. They're simply too good, and when you have the option for so much fury you might never run out of fury.

[pattison]

2 other matches since then with the piggies.

One against Calaban T3:

Calaban, the Gravewalker (*6pts)
* Bull Snapper (3pts)
* Blackhide Wrastler (9pts)
* Ironback Spitter (8pts)
Farrow Bone Grinders (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Gatormen Posse (Leader and 4 Grunts) (9pts)
Feralgeist (1pts)
Wrong Eye & Snapjaw (9pts)

With Carver T4:

Lord Carver (*6pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
* War Hog (8pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 5 Grunts) (4pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 5 Grunts) (4pts)
Rorsh & Brine (9pts)

The scenario was the "destroy your opponent's objective so you can control the zone in the middle" one.
I charged it with a hog in turn 2 and destroyed it. Obviously that hog was dead next turn, but it was OK as he was forced to come to the zone.
I tied up his GMP with a unit of tough Brigands quite successfully on the right flank.
On the left flank he came in with a Feralgeist to contest and WE&SJ were behind it.
On my 3rd turn I used my feat and there were 3 heavies on 3 heavies. Brine went to handle Snapjaw, a Spiny Growth'd Wrastler died after 3 swings, the Spitter gone down after only 2.
Both hogs were breathing into Calaban's neck. I made the huge mistake of forcing both of them to 4 getting too greedy (missing a nearby GMP after Overtake move, and missing Calaban twice with the other hog).
Brine managed to miss all but one attack against Snapjaw (with the feat and his animus up, hitting on 6'es...). Now that was quite a blast as Carver was standing out there with 1 fury that he couldn't use.
2 gatormen charged him, and brought him down to 10 wounds. Wrong Eye successfully killed Brine (of course), so Snapjaw could charge Carver without a free strike (and I forgot Pig Headed, what a mistake!).
His Mind was out so he had to boost to hit me on 7s. He succeeded and put in the wounds needed to kill Carver. And yup, I also forgot Tough...
Well the conclusion is that I need to keep my calm even when I roll horribly (Brine) otherwise I start to do silly things and forget my abilities.

The other match went against Shae T4 theme force @ 25 points. Circular zones scenario, needed 2 points in the opponents zone to win.
My first match with the good Dr.!

Captain Phinneus Shae (*6pts)
* Buccaneer (3pts)
* Mule (8pts)
* Nomad (6pts)
* Commodore Cannon & Crew (Commodore and 3 Crewmen) (4pts)
Sea Dog Crew (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
* Mr. Walls Sea Dog Crew Quartermaster (2pts)
Bosun Grogspar (1pts)
First Mate Hawk (1pts)
Lord Rockbottom (1pts)

vs.

Dr. Arkadius (*6pts)
* War Hog (7pts)
* War Hog (7pts)
* War Hog (7pts)
Farrow Bone Grinders (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Farrow Brigands (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)

He deployed the Commodore pretty poorly so I could avoid it for quite long, but after my 2nd turn feat (wrecking the Mule and crippling the Nomad) he changed tactics to defensive and managed to make it a long and bloody fight.
At the end all he had left was Shae, Commodore, Hawk, Walls and Rockbottom, while on my side it was Dr., an unscratched Hog and 1 Brigand.
I won 2-1, but after 3 Sea Dogs, Hawk and Walls chew themselves through 9 Brigands and 3 Grinders (!) I had to run back with the doctor himself to contest my zone.
I really enjoyed the way he works by the way. Surprisingly I didn't come to cast Crippling Grasp during the whole game, and I didn't use Maltreatment either, but I dished out a Primal Shock each turn, and a Psycho Surgery in all of the later turns. Also quite surprising that I had one single Hyper Aggressive move during the whole game! Still, the 14" control is great, and the feat is also pretty decent if executed well (and I think it was, even if I put 15 wounds into one of my War Hogs with the other, lol). The only thing I miss with him is some kind of AOE, so I think a Gun Boar with Targ would be welcome in his army.
He's trickier than Carver of course, but nowhere near as exhausting as my regular mercenary armies for example.

Playing the hogs still feels like a breeze of fresh air, it's a very comfortable mini-faction for me.