pIrusk 50pts

[Baptism By Ice]

So first, some history. This list started off as an update to an eVlad list in which I wanted to double down on the IFP, but by the time it was done I started asking myself "How would this NOT be better instead with pIrusk?". Sadly(?), I had no answer, and after some minor retooling, this list was developed. Here it is:

pIrusk
Spriggan
Sylys Wyshnalyrr
Gorman Di Wulfe
10x IFP w/UA
10x BDIFP w/UA
5x Demo Corps
Saxon Orrik
Widowmakers
Widowmaker Marksman
Kell Bailoch
eEiryss

I realize the mercs can't benefit from his feat, but being able to pump out 8 almost guaranteed points of damage (one of which drops upkeeps/animi) turn seemed far too good to pass up. Also, I rather love the idea of IF on the BDIFP, as def16 arm22 dudes with 4+ tough on feat/mini-feat turn is just... well, amazing. I haven't actually played with pIrusk yet, so I was wondering what better options might be present. I mean, the list seems pretty solid to me, but if there are nastier options available, I'd like to hear them. Many thanks!

[Siegebringer]

If you aren't playing timed turns I'd drop the demo corp for a larger unit, or at least a ranged unit. While I imagine demo corps are great under evlad's feat, I find more dudes with pIrusk is prefered. Also reinhold is a popular choice with pIrusk for reload if you have a point to spare.

[Baptism By Ice]

Larger unit like what? At 9pts, it's in a sticky spot of points that I can't fit in the Kayazy that I so badly want... I do agree that I'd much rather have more bodies there instead. However, at the same time, battle lust on demo corps sounds amazing. The other reason I figured they'd be a good(/decent) option is that Irusk wants to sit back a ways, so it doesn't matter that they're slow if they're also doubling as a form of body guard for him? Again though, I'm okay with them going, I just don't really know what would take their place due to their wonky points cost (relative to the other infantry units we have). I guess I could drop eEiryss and the demo corps for 12pts to load in a normal unit and Reinholdt, but... then I have a leftover 1pt that would be sad and alone, plus I enjoy dropping upkeeps in case I run against other Khador / Menoth / anything. Hrm. Maybe it'd be worth it though? But I also don't want to clog up LoS lines for the robust sniper squad... Tough calls.

[jameslsummers]

drop eiryss, demo corp and kell and take full kayazy with underboss, a unit of eleminators and reinholt, same points plus with the exception of reinholt they can all benefit from his spell list and feat. hope this helps.

[scout's honor]

If you aren't playing timed turns I'd drop the demo corp for a larger unit, or at least a ranged unit. While I imagine demo corps are great under evlad's feat, I find more dudes with pIrusk is prefered.

He's already got two full units of IFP, both with a UA. I don't think 5 extra bodies is going to make the difference. I'd remove the DC as well, but to get the Great Bears and some magic attacks in there: Greylords. Aiyana & Holt could fit in that 4-point opening as well.

I'd also drop one unit of IFP (player's choice, but with Saxon in the list I'd have a slight preference for keeping the Black Dragons) and take full kayazy with Underboss instead. The MAT of the Pikemen is just a shade too low to really handle opposing infantry well and the two variations of them really serve largely the same purpose. But if the whole idea of the list is to double up on IFP, go for it.

[Baptism By Ice]

He's already got two full units of IFP, both with a UA. I don't think 5 extra bodies is going to make the difference. I'd remove the DC as well, but to get the Great Bears and some magic attacks in there: Greylords. Aiyana & Holt could fit in that 4-point opening as well.

I'd also drop one unit of IFP (player's choice, but with Saxon in the list I'd have a slight preference for keeping the Black Dragons) and take full kayazy with Underboss instead. The MAT of the Pikemen is just a shade too low to really handle opposing infantry well and the two variations of them really serve largely the same purpose. But if the whole idea of the list is to double up on IFP, go for it.

Well, not that you had any way of knowing this, but the Great Bears and A&H are already in my Old Witch list. My "problem" (that's too strong of a word) with taking out the DC is that then what will be the main heavy wreckers? I've got no experience yet with what are effectively weapon master IFP (of either flavor), but... well, I guess I'm just paranoid that maybe a unit of pow13 WM might not get it done? Also, in terms of IFP's MAT - that was also a concern of mine. I was just planning on relying on feat turn (+eiryss shooting off IF) if I ever came across kayazy or anything, plus maybe some CMAs if I REALLY want to be sure I hit. Not that I have anything against the kayazy, I just... I dunno. The point isn't exactly to double down on the IFP, but... well... okay, maybe it kind of is. I just like them so much.

Plus (as a side note) I don't want to fall into the pattern that a lot of Khador players seem to fall into where an IF caster = Kayazy + WGI, when any amount of blast damage lists will just obliterate that. My OW list has plenty of KA, Nyss, etc in it, and I suppose I just want this list to have a different flavor than that one? Not just hot-swapping casters and repeating the same units. That seems... bleh. That being said, I don't want to hinder myself and not have a competitive option because I don't want a similar list; if KA are truly the right option, well, then they'll go in. It'll take some play-testing, I suppose, to see which feel I like more.

[scout's honor]

Well, not that you had any way of knowing this, but the Great Bears and A&H are already in my Old Witch list. My "problem" (that's too strong of a word) with taking out the DC is that then what will be the main heavy wreckers? I've got no experience yet with what are effectively weapon master IFP (of either flavor), but... well, I guess I'm just paranoid that maybe a unit of pow13 WM might not get it done? Also, in terms of IFP's MAT - that was also a concern of mine. I was just planning on relying on feat turn (+eiryss shooting off IF) if I ever came across kayazy or anything, plus maybe some CMAs if I REALLY want to be sure I hit. Not that I have anything against the kayazy, I just... I dunno. The point isn't exactly to double down on the IFP, but... well... okay, maybe it kind of is. I just like them so much.

Plus (as a side note) I don't want to fall into the pattern that a lot of Khador players seem to fall into where an IF caster = Kayazy + WGI, when any amount of blast damage lists will just obliterate that. My OW list has plenty of KA, Nyss, etc in it, and I suppose I just want this list to have a different flavor than that one? Not just hot-swapping casters and repeating the same units. That seems... bleh. That being said, I don't want to hinder myself and not have a competitive option because I don't want a similar list; if KA are truly the right option, well, then they'll go in. It'll take some play-testing, I suppose, to see which feel I like more.

So this is an SR2012 list? Have you given any thought to reinforcements, or won't they be necessary for whatever event you're planning for?

I understand not wanting to overload on the typical infantry units taken with IF casters, but as I pointed out in a couple of other threads, at 50 points - +10 reinforcements - in an infantry faction and when using IF casters, you have so many points to fill with infantry even Khador players will find they're somewhat tied to bringing certain units. I don't play the WGI, the MoW don't work well with my usual caster choices, AKs don't perform and the Rifle Corps are there for support more than substance: I pretty much have to include IFP and Kayazy in every 50-point SR2012 list. It's not a pattern, it's more of a lack of equally viable alternatives. 40-50 points of infantry and solos is a lot, especially if you prefer to keep the solo count low as I sometimes like to do.

[Baptism By Ice]

Yes, reinforcements is something that I've been musing on for some time now. In general, my thought has been BDIFP, as they can squat on an objective quickly like none other. However, as this list stands now, that isn't a possibility. Instead, I was considering something like min Uhlans + Yuri for speed and infantry clearing, but I'm not sure how much I like that idea, either. What I might end up doing is going with a drakhun (no dismount) and two units of eliminators or, in a similar vein, drakhun w/dismount, yuri, and a manhunter. That gives me the speed to go squat on an objective, as well some significant punch. The low model count (of the reinforcements) is definitely a concern still, though in either of the two options I'm getting at least 28 wounds coming in, the majority of models there having stealth. Though with reinforcements, stealth isn't necessarily going to be a huge buff, but it will at least be there.

I'll try running it with the kayazy, though. It's certainly possible that they're simply the most ideal unit for the job. Also, for the record, I have nothing against KA - it's just been my experience that an army with even a small portion of aoes will do bad things to them (which, to be fair, there need to be counters available, so I'm oddly alright with this). I figure against lists without aoes, the OW's nyss/kayazy can mess it up, while if I'm going against, say, a couple bombers with snipe on them (extreme example, I know), or even just most menoth lists actually, this pIrusk list will fare much better.

...but then, I have been known to be wrong before. What I'm saying is, I'll keep the KA in mind and playtest both, seeing which one gives me better results.

[scout's honor]

I'll try running it with the kayazy, though. It's certainly possible that they're simply the most ideal unit for the job. Also, for the record, I have nothing against KA - it's just been my experience that an army with even a small portion of aoes will do bad things to them (which, to be fair, there need to be counters available, so I'm oddly alright with this). I figure against lists without aoes, the OW's nyss/kayazy can mess it up, while if I'm going against, say, a couple bombers with snipe on them (extreme example, I know), or even just most menoth lists actually, this pIrusk list will fare much better.

I simply feel that with so much infantry you're not looking at the best unit for the job, but the best unit for each of a number of jobs. The trick then becomes to position them to your advantage, while your opponent tries to achieve the opposite. I usually get better results bringing a more diverse array of troops, that's all - unless I'm playing an extreme Doomie spam list or some such, of course.

Trying both is the best thing to do. Good luck with it!