New 35 Testament list - TFG or Zealots?!?!?

[9breaker]

Hi there,

Want to try out a new list for testament. Not gonna have a chance to test it until I pick up some idrians, but would like some feed back in the mean time.

Testament (-6)
-Reckoner (8)
-Devout (5)

min choir (2)

min Idrians w/ UA (9)
KE (5)
A&H (4)
and...
max TFG w/ UA OR max zealots w/ UA

Some explainations:

A problem I've been seeing w/ testament is that while he can keep infantry units up and running, he doesn't do much to buff damage output. Thats why i have A&H in there.
- Harm + prey targets will be taking POW 17 2man CRAs from idrians
- More damage from KE (b/c you can never do too much damage)
- Reckoner will be be outputting Avatar level damage in melee
- Hell, even the devout hits like a heavy against harm targets + battle hymn
- magic attacks gives me a means of taking out incorporeal stuff from range
- Holt is no slouch either

So now I can pack some punch at melee and range. I'm stuck as to which tarpit/cheap souls to take. The way I see it is...

TFG
They benefit from ranked attack, allowing my ranged elements to shoot from behind them, and better at blocking LOS (especially to A&H). Having a melee tarpit allows them to rush up and get stuck in, while still being effective at throwing punches. Fire and terror definitely help out too. Don't care much shield wall, as I find it slows me down more often than not, and there are ways to get around it. Plus makes them vulnerable AOE effects/trampling heavies. Charging a harm target w/ 2man CMA can put the hurt on.

Zealots
They offer a bit more staying power. The mini-feat and testaments feat let both let me walk out of combat to throw my bombs. However, once stuff gets into melee, I'm likely throwing bombs into my own guys, which might not matter under the feat, but it could get clunky. However, against a harm target, they are throwing out pow 16 bombs w/ pow 10 blasts. This gives me a means to deal with high DEF, low ARM models. Unfortunately, if my zealots aren't dying, testament aint getting souls. Fearless is nice. Lacking the commander ability sucks and fleeing infantry sucks when you are an infantry caster.

Long story short, zealots seem to do more damage, and has more staying power, but certain features about them make them somewhat counter-intuitive to the way the rest of the army works.

[jandrese]

I would lean towards TFG because they are more of a threat to the enemy caster. Zealots generally can't hit casters directly and are dice minus a lot on blast damage. TFG can charge and CMA on the Testament's feat turn to get a fairly accurate and powerful attack on the caster, that will set them on fire if you took the UA (which I hope you did, because it's the Testament and that CMD check reroll is pretty useful).

[dchadpage]

I don't have much experience with Testament or idrians, but I'm inclined to think min unit of TFG + UA and try to get idrians to max+ua.

[jandrese]

Theoretically Ashen Veil stacks nicely with the Camo on the Idrians, in practice mine are always getting shot by people who ignore concealment anyway. I like Ashen Veil on the Daughters more, especially when they run into the middle of some big enemy unit.

[9breaker]

Theoretically Ashen Veil stacks nicely with the Camo on the Idrians, in practice mine are always getting shot by people who ignore concealment anyway. I like Ashen Veil on the Daughters more, especially when they run into the middle of some big enemy unit.

Yea, AV daughters are amazing. Great against single wound models. But not very useful vs multi wound models. Can't really compare the two though. Two vastly different roles. I'd likely swap AV targets between idrian and TFG depending in the situation. Or I could swap the devout for a unit of daughters. The devout is mainly there to protect A&H.

[Harbylove]

Theoretically Ashen Veil stacks nicely with the Camo on the Idrians, in practice mine are always getting shot by people who ignore concealment anyway. I like Ashen Veil on the Daughters more, especially when they run into the middle of some big enemy unit.

That's a meta issue I think, there's not a ton of stuff outside of cygnar, legion, and ret that ignore it readily. But when it all comes down to it, the idrians mini feat turn is only ever negated by stuff like hunter. Bringing these guys back is always fun too. They are awesome with testie meta dependent.

[Hrimfaxi]

I would second the TFG here as they synergize with Idrians fairly well. Ranked Attacks with the UA is nice and that way you're less susceptible to jamming, which seems to be on everyone's minds these days. Ranked Attacks and CMA allow for some surprisingly accurate and painful hits from our cheap souls.

[Smiles]

I like running both with testament. Cheap souls, two good solid units. And you should see the look on my opponents face when I pop feat and have my zealots walk through his army to drop 10 pow 14's on the squishy parts of his army.

All in all, the TFG are a better unit for him, but I like to run as many cheap bodies as possible.

[jandrese]

That's a meta issue I think, there's not a ton of stuff outside of cygnar, legion, and ret that ignore it readily. But when it all comes down to it, the idrians mini feat turn is only ever negated by stuff like hunter. Bringing these guys back is always fun too. They are awesome with testie meta dependent.

Or anything with spray attacks. So Winterguard for instance can just cut them down without even breaking a sweat.

[9breaker]

Thanks for the responses.

Looks like most people agree that TFG are the way to go.

@ jandrese - You are right that ashen veil + idrians doesn't mean they are invincible, and I will keep that piece of advice in mind when I play my first game. However, the idrians won't be the sole targets for ashen veil. I will more than likely be throwing it on the tarpit unit (be it TFG or zealots) right before they get stuck in. The -2 to hit debuff is great, and throwing it on a large unit helps to spread the debuff further.

I have plenty of experience with daughters + ashen veil, and i can say they are absolutely ace w/ that spell. But the reason I went for idrians is b/c they are one of the better ranged units in the faction. I've found (w/ my playstyle/meta) a ranged threat is important w/ testament as it forces your opponent to come to you, and the lone reckoner just isn't doing it for me. I've toyed w/ deliverers before, and it has quite a psychological effect on my opponents.

The one concern if I went w/ TFG is how to deal w/ high defense units. How could I tweak the list to deal with them, while maintaining the core of the list?

[brotherscott]

The one concern if I went w/ TFG is how to deal w/ high defense units. How could I tweak the list to deal with them, while maintaining the core of the list?

That is what CMA is for- you might not need the damage output from it, but accurate hits are worth it, and Reach will get you there.

Coming to the party a little late- but Ashen Veil on the TFG gets them effectively to DEF 15, and 17 if they get charged, and they are still ARM 17 in Shield Wall. Causing Terror and setting things on fire makes them pretty solid for 8 points.

[9breaker]

I guess the mob has spoken! TFG it is.
I just picked up my idrians, so I'll be able to test them out soon

One more question: What do you guys feel about the devout? Is there something better I could be throwing those 5 points at?

[brotherscott]

With the amount of ranged attacks and magic attacks in the game, I really like having the Devout on the table in most of my Protectorate lists.

Shield Guard and Spell Ward might be corner case, but in most of my lists they earn their points keeping the warcaster and important solos/ support reasonably safe. And Defensive Strike keeps my opponents on their toes and has been known to reduce the amount of movement in his general vicinity.

Even funnier in my world is taking a pair of them with eFeora. Escort and two Shield Guards keeps her pretty safe, and when I go for the assassination, they can clear a path with a little help from the Choir.

I think a Devout is worth having for its points.

[Pixl]

I seldom run TFG without defenders ward, so I say zealots. They are a great distraction and can easily kill high arm infantry or just clog things up...

[shady]

I say TFG because plain and simple Def 13 is way better then 12 allso with shield wall it makes them even better however ive been running Zealots lately so never mind the top of my post i dont know dude what ever you like more their both good units can and soak allot of damage with close range fire bombs Makes them great so the real qustion is asks what do you like more?????

[9breaker]

I say TFG because plain and simple Def 13 is way better then 12 allso with shield wall it makes them even better however ive been running Zealots lately so never mind the top of my post i dont know dude what ever you like more their both good units can and soak allot of damage with close range fire bombs Makes them great so the real qustion is asks what do you like more?????

Yea. That is a good question. I'm absolutely torn between the two. I love the look of the TFG, it's part of the reason I chose menoth. And with ashen veil, that extra or of def is great. Don't feel the need to repeat what's been said, but TFG definitely have their good points.

But for sheer punch, a harm target and prayer, it puts zealots into Heavy wrecking territory. Greater destiny + testament feat gives me 2 turns where I can just walk out of melee and toss them bombs.

Well either way, I have both units and just finished assembling idrians. I'll try both and let u guys know how it goes.

[shady]

im glad to hear that i have both units as well i liked how my zealots with the UA really backs the enemy up :P its funny to see a army charging forward then a complete stop what the hell is that all about :P haha

[Pixl]

I got to change my mind a bit, I have now played 3 games with testament and tried TFG with him.
Awesome with ashen veil, with set defence thats a -4 on charge attacks from living stuff.
They also get much out of his feat as they can charge through the lines and kill the enemy caster/lock or other important stuff.