I need thy help with Ossy

[AJ the Ronin]

In my games with him he never ends up more than 5" from the deployment zone. I have shuffle my army around (with the archers and discordia the only constant) so the problem don't seem to be the army (but it may be that is why I created this thread).

My main problem seem to be that I feel I can't protect him. I have used the Thanes, Phoenix and Artificer as bodyguard (I proxy Aspis once, I guess I should try it again). He still get very dead.

Don't get me wrong I clear most of my opponents armies but me being outnumbered don't help (usually not an issue with others casters) since whatever survives defeat me eventually. I just can't see to finish the game with Ossy.

Any advice?

Note: play scenarios is not an option our meta outside of SR is caster kill.

[Murkhadh]

I don't think your list is the problem, but can you post it so maybe we can give advice on what to do with what pieces? But I'll start off by saying you should bring an aspis. And you kinda have to manuever the feat turn so that your obliterating the things that are in range to kill Ossyan, he will generally have the firepower to do just that, you just have to do well at gauging your opponents threat ranges. Also make sure you always have admonition up. Between admonition and aspis you should be able to have him survive.

[Mazin1]

I think between Amonition and the Aspis I feel a lot better putting him closer to the action. Still have to watch out for place effects.


Edit: Murkhadh beat me too it. I agree with him obviously.

[Mavwick]

My Ossyan lists have been very infantry-heavy and I tend to find Opponents have trouble pinning him down at range. If they do, he's often near Aspis and/or an Artificer and/or Discordia. After you lose 'jacks, Admonition on himself generally kills a lot of assassination runs. Ossyan has a lot of tools to pick apart an enemy while staying safe.

[Rogue Sun]

How is he generally dying? Ranged? Magic? Melee?

Without knowing how you keep losing him it's pretty hard to prescribe any sort of advice. I usually try to camp 2 focus on Ossyan at any time if I can since he is quite vulnerable to assassination.

[AJ the Ronin]

Last 3 games I have being killed 2 by range and one by Melee.

I keep getting rushed by my oponents. It does works at my fevor somewhat since I get my opponents army on the feat but by that time I don't have enough to kill all threats.

Last game against trolls I destroyed the cavalry, champions and most of the kriel stones. A round latter Grissel2 killed him with a spray.

Against the Daughter caster, well the player was smart enough to cast ocultation on the idrians, creating an bad match-up for the strike force (the other non jack target in the early game were daughters and flameguards). I lost to a daughter that I killed and activated thanks to the Battle engine door miracle.

Last game I got shot by the battle engine...the only thing my opponent had left was Sevvy2, the BE, 3 idrians and 5 templeguards. I had to spread my army to destroy most of his army. Sevvy2 never used his feat (but the thane, and some battle mages were close enough to be a problem had Sevvy feated).

As soon I'm on a Pc I'll post my lists (on a tablet right now).

[hausdorff space]

To me it sounds like you've likely got decent lists and strategies; I suggest playing some completely different/alternative lists with Ossyan for a little while, to give you a greater perspective on him as a caster.


EDIT: I want to suggest a 35pt list like this, I think it's pretty atypical while also being quite reasonable.

Lord Arcanist Ossyan
- Aspis
- Manticore
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker
Houseguard Halberdiers (Leader and 9 Grunts)
- Houseguard Halberdiers Officer & Standard
Houseguard Riflemen (Leader and 9 Grunts)
- Houseguard Riflemen Officer & Standard
Arcanist
Ghost Sniper
Ghost Sniper

and either Eiryss, Mage hunter of Ios, or a second Arcanist and a Soulless Escort on each unit.

... interestingly if the Vyre jacks were out and you put them in instead of the Shyeel ones, this would actually be a T1 theme list. Admonition on Ossyan, Quicken on the Halberdiers, Shatterstorm on the Riflemen ... see what happens.

[AJ the Ronin]

I will try that list. I will swap the Manticore for Hypnos, since I don't have a Manticore but will have my hypnos in a few weeks (and the Aspis I screw up and order it with the vyre jacks and warstore won't ship until everything is available). It will be weird without archers, but I think such a drastic change will be helpful.

[PG_Draxos]

Is this a problem with Ossy or would you be having this problem against a Ravyn or Rahn list?

[AJ the Ronin]

Ossy. With all the other casters it does not happens. Perhaps at first with Kae and Vyros but not anymore. With those 2 casters thing started to change when I started to make them essential part of the assassination run.

Basically I don't have assassination vectors with Ossy (moment of discovery there, honest)

[serrasin]

I have been using two Manticores with Ossyan and its worked quite well. The covering fire templates let me either funnel or stall infantry advances and I have little trouble with anything heavy. On the feat turn put three focus each on the manticores and let them gun everything down. I do tend to play the list and ossyan midfield, but thats just play style.

Lord Arcanist Ossyan (*6pts)
* Manticore (8pts)
* Manticore (8pts)
Mage Hunter Strikeforce (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Mage Hunter Commander (2pts)
Stormfall Archers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (5pts)
Stormfall Archers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (5pts)
Arcanist (1pts)
Arcanist (1pts)
Narn, Mage Hunter of Ios (3pts)

[Mavwick]

Interesting differences, here. I never field Ossyan without Invictors. Their POW12 guns mean his feat is going to hurt whatever they hit. They also tend to hold the line well against melee and ranged threats to Ossyan until they start going for Flanks late-game.

Ossyan
-Discordia
-Aspis
Full Invictors + UA
Battle Mages
Stormfall Archers
(Debating between) Aiyana and Holt or Destor Thane

The Mages help pull heavy targets into the feat's range so Ossyan doesn't risk himself as much and they're just crazy with +2 more DEF at range. The Thane can prevent a flanking force and fire away, but A&H are a solid meta piece for shooting that makes sure his feat turn kills Heavy targets.

[AJ the Ronin]

2 of the 3 lists I use have with him have Invictors. I feel the 35 point list with Invictors is the stronger of the 3. Again still on a tablet, will post lists later.

[TIEActor]

its been my experiance that poor ossy needs everything he can to protect himself while using very little for buffing his army. Quicken plus artifcer makes him nigh unshootable and admonition is good if you think your opponent will rocket something in. Unfortunetly, Ossy's feat and abilities kinda dictate that he's close to the front lines and while his feat is awsome, I find he lacks good finishing power.

[ucfan34]

Basically I don't have assassination vectors with Ossy (moment of discovery there, honest)

This to me is a big part of your issue, at least the way I've been playing him.

I spent most of my time with him trying to get into position to shoot either the enemy warnoun or something close enough to get the def debuff on them.

Had a few games where I've largely ignored the opponents entire army, just focusing on the fact that I just need to get them with his gun.

[Rogue Sun]

I don't even try to get the enemy caster/lock with his feat. If I can cripple or destroy my opponents army the enemy warcaster is usually pretty helpless to do anything, assuming of course you've taken proper precautions not to expose Ossyan. Basically I try to down the 2 biggest heavies and any infantry I can on feat turn. They may have a few things left, but really it shouldn't be enough to threaten your army.

We could really use your list though. I've got a feeling you're list isn't streamlined enough to make the best use of Ossyans abilities.

[AJ the Ronin]

Here:

My main 50 point list with him

Army Name: Ozzy 50
Retribution of Scyrah
50+6 points, 33 models

Lord Arcanist Ossyan +6 points
* Discordia 10 points
* Phoenix 10 points
* Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker 2 points

Dawnguard Destor Thane 4 points
10 Dawnguard Invictors 10 points
* Invictor Officer & Standard 2 points
House Shyeel Artificer 3 points
10 Mage Hunter Strike Force 8 points
* Mage Hunter Commander 2 points
Stormfall Archers 5 points
Sent from my Kindle Fire

This one is a tweak after not being successful with the above list:

Army Name: Ossyan
Retribution of Scyrah
50+6 points, 39 models

Lord Arcanist Ossyan +6 points
* Discordia 10 points
* Phoenix 10 points
* Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker 2 points

Arcanist 1 point
Dawnguard Destor Thane 4 points
House Shyeel Battle Mages 5 points
10 Houseguard Halberdiers 7 points
* Halberdier Officer & Standard 2 points
10 Mage Hunter Strike Force 8 points
* Mage Hunter Commander 2 points
Stormfall Archers 5 points
Sent from my Kindle Fire

And my 35 list. This is the one I have being closer to victory. As you can see is very similar to my 50 point main list

Army Name: Ozzy
Retribution of Scyrah
35+6 points, 28 models

Lord Arcanist Ossyan +6 points
* Phoenix 10 points
* Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker 2 points

6 Dawnguard Invictors 6 points
* 1 Soulless Escort 1 point
House Shyeel Artificer 3 points
10 Mage Hunter Strike Force 8 points
* Mage Hunter Commander 2 points
Narn, Mage Hunter of Ios 3 points
Stormfall Archers 5 points
* 1 Soulless Escort 1 point
Sent from my Kindle Fire

[serrasin]

I prefer to run ossyan as an attrition list and keep a couple pocket rockets for the late game. Thats what I use Narn for. Keep him tucked away until late game and then cast quickness on him.

Finishers that I use are: Fane Knight, Mage Hunter Assassin, Narn. Anything quick and hard hitting.

[ucfan34]

Any particular reason for the Phoenix in your lists? I've been running just a single Manticore with Ossy (which I'll switch to Hypnos once it's out). Are you dead set on 2 jacks at 50pts?

Your 50pt list is similar to what I run.

[Rogue Sun]

Alright, I'm going to tear apart your list and recommend some changes.

1) Jack Selection - I find Discordia to be one of the best jacks to run with Ossyan. Her imprint, spray and melee abilities all compliment him well and he can buff her in the form of Chronomancer, Shatter Storm or Quicken. The Phoenix on the other hand I'm not sure why you run with Ossyan. He is expensive for what he provides. An arc node which Ossyan has little use for unless you're bouncing around his upkeeps, which even then is probably not a great plan. He his a heavy hitter but then again you don't need a melee heavy hitter you need a finisher. Something to go in a finish a crippled heavy after you've pumped a high volume of shots into it.

My suggestion - Manticores. A pair of Manticores provide Ossyan some serious synergy. A) you get a jack with numerous ranged attacks which is what he likes with his feat. 3 shots at 3d6, 2 at 3d6 and one at 4d6 or 2 shots at 4d6 (my personal choice) are all devestating on feat turn. B) you get a jack that works with your infantry. With 2 covering fire templates you can effectively advance your army without worrying about fast moving light interceptors designed at tying up your army so they can't shoot. Or you can bottle neck enemy infantry forcing them to clump up. C) you get a jack that hits hard. The Manticore is our heaviest hitter, he is cheap, and he works wonders with Ossyan.

2) Infantry Selection - First thing that I'm noticing is you've made room in every single one of your lists for the MHSF. I understand why, but from my experience the MHSF actually benefits least from being with Ossyan. That's not to say they aren't good with him, they are, but other options become significantly better. I also notice you've only got one unit of Stormfall Archers in his list. Stormfall are the bread and butter of Ossyan. They provide him with heavy hitting firepower, versatility of star strikes and the alpha strike range of snipe. Ossyan also synergizes with them incredibly well by being able to lower defense on their intended target. Finally, Invictors. Invictors + Ossyan is damn near mandatory. These guys provide you a solid battle line, a dangerous range threat, the ability to CRA for high DEF or high ARM targets as well as being decent in melee (and I don't mean just Flank. Natural MAT 7 is amazing on a shooting unit). Have these guys pair off on the feat turn to send rerollable RAT 8 POW 14's with 3d6 damage. That should down just about anything.

My Suggestions - A) 2 Stormfall Archers. Period. This honestly goes for almost every list. 1 unit of Stormfalls is annoying. 2 units is a credible threat. B) A full unit of Invictors + UA in every list. Yes even at 35 points. These guys are too good with Ossyans feat and spells to not be included. A min unit just isn't that scary, but a full unit can cause some serious damage. C) If you're going to include the MHSF they take least priority over Stormfalls and Invictors. Being able to ignore concealment and cover is their biggest asset to Ossyan. Personally, I like a min unit + commander as a harrassing and intercepting unit.

3) Support Selection - Soulless Escorts are IMO pretty meh. And with Quicken in your arsenal, not to mention your incredible alpha strike capability, I find they are pretty useless with Ossyan. Keep in mind that Ossyan has dispel on his sword so if you find a unit of yours with an enemy upkeep on them, just have Ossy go over and tag one of them. As for the Artificer, again they're just pretty meh. They CAN provide Ossyan with some ranged protection, but I've often found I don't need it. Have Ossyan hug cover or hide out of LOS (since most of his abilities don't require LOS) and it's not a big deal. The Thane. OK, I do love me some Thane, but again it's like the Stormfall, they need to be in pairs to be a credible threat. 2 Thanes with Ossyan can create some real issues.

My Suggestions - Drop the Soulless Escorts and use those points elsewhere. Drop the Artificer, he's unnecessary if you play Ossyan smartly and use the terrain to your advantage. Use those points for a second Thane. Thanes give you the ability to tear down lights on feat turn. They give you the ability to nueter big infantry units. They give you the ability to solo hunt, contest, grab objectives. They also give you 2 CMD 10 models on the table. This is big since Ossy himself is only an 8.

Here is the list I typically run with Ossyan.

Ossyan
- Manticore
- Manticore
- Sylys
Full Invictors + UA
2x Stormfall Archers
Min MHSF + UA
2x Destor Thanes
Arcanist

The Manticores provide covering fire and melee threat with one on each side of my Invictors. The Stormfalls and Ossyan find protection behind that battle line, while providing shots at high priority targets. The MHSF usually gets quicken and reposition on a flank to take out support pieces and intercept/bog down units as needed. The thanes are my most flexible pieces providing support wherever needed. A cautious, but steady, advance usually sees this army controlling the middle of the board making sure to use the terrain to my advantage.

Hope that helps some, and as always take this with a grain of salt. This is what works for me and has in my experience provided the best results.

[AJ the Ronin]

Any particular reason for the Phoenix in your lists? I've been running just a single Manticore with Ossy (which I'll switch to Hypnos once it's out). Are you dead set on 2 jacks at 50pts?

Your 50pt list is similar to what I run.

Because I don't have a Manticore. I had one once, when Retribution was first released. Around a year ago I ended up converting it on a Phoenix. Once the Vyres 'jacks I plan on swapping it for either Hypnos or a Daemon. And no, I'm not dead set on two 'jacks.

***Skip lot of good advice****

Lots of good advice. The MHSF is there to have an unit that benefit from Ossy's feat. Why I changed the Invictors and not the MHSF? Because the MHSF performed better on the previous game. In hindsight I should have keep the Invictors and changed the MHSF. I think that is something I'll do next time.

I have good experience with the Artificer but I agree on those list a second Thane and a second unit of Archers will be superb (I have to buy them 'though). Is something I will definitely try.

In general I don't like Manticores but reading your post I got this idea of keeping one behind Ossy and drop the covering fire template right in top of him and let those non-heavy warnouns try to come to him.

Best use for 8 points? Probably not, but it will be very interesting to see how it works out.


(So far a very good thread. A very "left-field" list that I would like to try and some nice tweaks to my current lists that are very sound)

[High Artificer]

Good Ossyan advice in here. I'm painting up an AFG and hope to use it in my Ossyan lists. I was thinking the sheer size of it might give him something good to hide behind, relying on Hypnos' arc node to give me more range on spells. Of course, I'll intend to advance the AFG up the field early game so that Ossyan isn't so far back that his feat is crippled. Anyone have experience using the AFG in this manner, as both artillery and protective wall for Ossyan?

Not intending to horn in on your thread here, just curious if any had experience/thoughts on this.

[AJ the Ronin]

I considered it but one of my main issues is that Ossy is not advancing, so adding a model that will stay stationary most of the game seem to go against what I want to fix. Then again that's me, perhaps it's more intuitive than I'm giving it credit.

[TIEActor]

I actually have alot of luck with ossy and use models everyone hates. Two rifle crews, the AFG and the hydra.

[Philoclass]

alot of people are scaried about having Ossy near the front lines, but I think he has the tools to escape assassiination. That hand cannon does more than just lower defense, it makes so enemies activating the AOE cant run or charge. A good shot with Admonition on Ossy really goes a long way. I am not a fan of apis, its a jack whose only selling point is to take one hit at range for you. I think going for invictors or MHSF is a coin toss with him. my list is more like this:

Ossy
Slys 2
Manticore 8
Manticore 8
Arcanist 1
Full Halberdiers +UA 9
Full MHSF + UA 10
StormFall Archers 5
StormFall Archers 5
E Eiryss
Fane Knight.

I think if you have invictors the list gets clunky from movement and LOS. With the faster Halberdiers and Ranked attack you ignore that problem. of course when the other jacks come out I might play around with jack combo's

[Murkhadh]

One thing I'll ask, are you casting chronomancer?

I'm currently using manticores with Ossyan, it will be a banshee and hypnos when those come out

[AJ the Ronin]

Yes. I didn't mention it since I know the spell had a bad reputation here but it's one of the few things I think it's working great for me. For example Disco usually end up with a focus to spare on imprinting thanks to that spell.

[Murkhadh]

Yes. I didn't mention it since I know the spell had a bad reputation here but it's one of the few things I think it's working great for me. For example Disco usually end up with a focus to spare on imprinting thanks to that spell.

Yet your asking why you keep losing...

Are you able to upkeep chrono, admonition, and quicken while still having focus to debuff something you need to kill with his gun and still have focus to give to jacks?

[Lord Sessadore]

In general I don't like Manticores but reading your post I got this idea of keeping one behind Ossy and drop the covering fire template right in top of him and let those non-heavy warnouns try to come to him.

Best use for 8 points? Probably not, but it will be very interesting to see how it works out.

Maybe I need to give my Manticore another shot with Ossyan as well. I played them together a couple times, but I was a little disappointed with what the Manticore did on feat turn. Perhaps I was expecting a bit too much, and I also think that boosting damage on two shots instead of firing 3 times (like Rogue Sun suggests) would've had a better effect.

Are you able to upkeep chrono, admonition, and quicken while still having focus to debuff something you need to kill with his gun and still have focus to give to jacks?

This touches on something I've had a problem with with Ossyan as well - not chronomancer, but the fact that he's got so many upkeeps that you have to be careful which ones you choose to use. Simply because of the fact that you need focus for more than just upkeeps, so using nearly half of your focus on upkeeps can really cut into what else you can do with him and the rest of the list. Granted I haven't played him since Wyshnalyr, who I'm sure will help.

[Murkhadh]

This touches on something I've had a problem with with Ossyan as well - not chronomancer, but the fact that he's got so many upkeeps that you have to be careful which ones you choose to use. Simply because of the fact that you need focus for more than just upkeeps, so using nearly half of your focus on upkeeps can really cut into what else you can do with him and the rest of the list. Granted I haven't played him since Wyshnalyr, who I'm sure will help.

This is pretty much why chrono is a trap.

It doesn't change how you allocate in the first place and depending on the dice, "might" save you a focus. Quicken and admonition you pretty much have to have up most turns and then in situations you need shatterstorm, there just isn't enough focus to go around,and run the jacks, Chrono is the spell that loses out. Sylys helps a little bit but even with him I'm always feeling focus starved with him as is.

[AJ the Ronin]

Yet your asking why you keep losing...

Are you able to upkeep chrono, admonition, and quicken while still having focus to debuff something you need to kill with his gun and still have focus to give to jacks?

Yes. Sylas helps a lot. When I have all four upkeeps (Shaterrstorm, Quckien, Admonition and Chrono) I still feel I have enough to allocate.

Honestly I have used his gun only once in all my games with him, but that is part of the problem I'm having problem navigating him far from my deployment.

[AJ the Ronin]

Yet your asking why you keep losing...

Are you able to upkeep chrono, admonition, and quicken while still having focus to debuff something you need to kill with his gun and still have focus to give to jacks?

Yes. Sylas helps a lot. When I have all four upkeeps (Shaterrstorm, Quckien, Admonition and Chrono) I still feel I have enough to allocate.

Honestly I have used his gun only once in all my games with him, but that is part of the problem I'm having with him, navigating him far from my deployment.

[Murkhadh]

The gun is a very important part of playing him, The thing you tag with it can't charge you, once you commit him, you need to either obliterate everything that is in threat range of you, or hit it with the gun so it can't charge you back. The cliche "the best defense is a good offense"

[ucfan34]

As far as my experience goes Murkhadh's advice (so eloquently stated) is pretty much spot on in matching the success I've had with Ossyan. His gun is integral in my opinion.

Just to throw it out there the 35pt & 50pt lists I've been running are..

35pts
Ossyan
Manticore
Arcanist
Full Invictors+UA
Full MHSF+UA
Stormfall Archers
Stormfall Archers

50pts add...
Arcanist
AFG
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt

In both lists I'll be replacing the Manticore and an Arcanist with Hypnos.

I don't run Sylys with Ossy anymore. Firstly, due to character restrictions, and secondly, I'm generally dropping Shatterstorm or Quicken after turn 2.

In three of four games I've lost with Ossyan I was assassinated, and it could have been avoided if I had Admonition up. My #1 rule for myself with Ossyan is to always have Admonition up. Which in turn means no Chronomancer. The merits of Chronomancer were discussed pretty thoroughly in an older thread. I tried swimming against that current and got dead, lol.

I've found the AFG is nice to hide behind (or to one side of), but one of it's bigger bonuses IMHO is that, in a time restricted enviornment, it fills out the 35pt list nicely without having too much more to activate. It's also actually really good anyhow.

[Murkhadh]

My #1 rule for myself with Ossyan is to always have Admonition up.

This is rule number 1, 2 and 3 for me, Ossyans feat says he has to play forward, but he doesn't exactly have forward type stats.

[serrasin]

Agreed. The only upkeeps that I regularly run with Ossyan are Quicken and Admonition. The later is up 100% from turn one, and Quicken depends after turn one depending on what I am playing against. Shatterstorm is a utility spell based on my opponent. Chronomancer is blacked out with a permanent marker. I actually try to camp as much focus as possible from turn to turn, which the Manticores help with. I generally only give them focus on either the feat turn or when they engage in melee.

[Philoclass]

Ok for all the hate that is on Cronomancer. I have used it once and not been disappointed I used it. My phoenix had an assassination attempt on Borka after he had made his drunk move. I loaded my jack with 3 focus and cast chrono. Borka dies, it might not have happened other wise. But it is rare for it to be useful

[Murkhadh]

Ok for all the hate that is on Cronomancer. I have used it once and not been disappointed I used it. My phoenix had an assassination attempt on Borka after he had made his drunk move. I loaded my jack with 3 focus and cast chrono. Borka dies, it might not have happened other wise. But it is rare for it to be useful

There are plenty of reasons to be disappointed in using it but I left all of that out, There are a ton of other things Ossyan needs to do with his focus, chronomancer falls to be the bottom of the priority list because of it.