War Room FAQ, revised

[veragor1206]

As a cygnar player i have been using the app for quite some time. As for the delay for other factions... well you can blame the CRS... lol

[J. Beatnik]

I've done some Apple and Android development in my time, and I can tell you that the iTunes app process is horrible. You have to first adhere to their interface design guidelines, which means using their interface buttons or interface elements that are "apple-like". You can't have an app that is a web clipping (basically a window with a web page), and they seriously limit any sort of webviewing or data feed from the internet for your app. With that in mind, you're looking at putting all of your databases on the limited architecture of an iphone or an ipad. After you get the app built in Objective C (don't get me started on why Apple uses such a horrible language), you send it up to the "glorious cathedral" of Apple to approve or deny your app based on whatever whim they feel like at the time. If they don't like your interface? Denied. They don't like the way your buttons sit? Denied. They think your app uses too much data? Denied. All this process takes 7 days from your submission just to get it LOOKED AT. And then, when they deny it for some insignificant reason or other, you resubmit it and wait another 4-5 days for them to get around to it.

On the other hand, the Android Market you just post a few screenshots, upload your package, and publish to market immediately. Oh, and Android apps are coded in Java, which has been the mobile app standard for 20 years.

[PG_dbsmash]

All fair complaints, but I really don't see why PiP, who are generally pretty good at interacting with their community, haven't just given us an update to know they are listening to the general frustration...

[mactac]

I thought they did when they said they were stuck in the apple process.
Trying to get high res stuff for ipad3?

[Blighted Tyrant]

I thought they did when they said they were stuck in the apple process.
Trying to get high res stuff for ipad3?

That's a smoke screen even eyeless sight would struggle with!

My honest opinion, they saw the back lash and want to make the App the best they can. If they came out and said I think a lot of the nerd rage would go away, if however they are just recoding bits for the high res iPad then Tinkerhouse are playing them, two of my associates code mobile apps and both have confirmed it doesn't take this long even with the authentication of Apple. And if TH are worth the vast sum they are no doubt being paid, it wont be rejected.

Just my opinion.

[WiLDRAGE]

I hear they made a deal with Valve to release War Room bundled with Half-Life 2: Episode Three.

[WarpedWolf]

Well, we haven't heard anything from PP about War Room since they originally said it'd be delayed.

I work in software development too, and sometimes what sounds like a simple, small change to the user is anything but. My guess is that implementing the theme lists is what's slowing them up. And I'm willing to wait for that.

[PG_Electric Seal]

Well, we haven't heard anything from PP about War Room since they originally said it'd be delayed.

I work in software development too, and sometimes what sounds like a simple, small change to the user is anything but. My guess is that implementing the theme lists is what's slowing them up. And I'm willing to wait for that.

I think if they were going to do that, they'd have said they would.

[WarpedWolf]

Huh. I thought they said they were adding that, but I guess I was wrong. I stand corrected.

[PG_Bartlebad]

I think this has the same thing going that Gabe does with HL3, every time it gets mentioned, it's pushed back an hour. Just kidding, I can't wait for the app, it's going to make unholy congress with all my portable devices.

[eliassmith27]

If they push it back again I might run out of money before I can buy it. School is expensive.

[func]

If they push it back again I might run out of money before I can buy it. School is expensive.

How about taking the money you have now and putting it away just in case? xD

[AJ the Ronin]

How about taking the money you have now and putting it away just in case? xD

Yup, this.

I hope we get at least an official announcement today that is delayed again.

[eliassmith27]

That's what I did, but I'm a student pilot and it's hard to justify not pulling that money out to help cover my lessons.

[CHUD]

Every day this app isn't released, a kitten somewhere dies!!!

STOP KILLING KITTENS, PP!!!!!

[Puchembo]

What are the chances that PP underestimated the demand for this product?

[AJ the Ronin]

Vegas high

[Caterpillargreen]

I've resorted to having my three year old make cool digital sound effects as I flip through my cards.

[Fearless]

......I wouldn't be so vexed if there were some word other than "mid-May"

[PG_wonderboyz]

They might want to reconsider their relationship with Tinkerhouse. They seem to be having a lot of problems releasing an app.

[func]

They might want to reconsider their relationship with Tinkerhouse. They seem to be having a lot of problems releasing an app.

I wouldnt be so hard on them, one delay isnt that bad. And they didnt say a date for the app to come out.

[Tiran]

They might want to reconsider their relationship with Tinkerhouse. They seem to be having a lot of problems releasing an app.

If the problems with War Room continue, I'd say they have more to worry about their relationship with their consumers. Releasing an app that costs more money and is less flexible than the existing free app for it's primary purpose and then delaying the app for two to three months while the alternative has already been withdrawn has many people I speak too feeling rather let down.

[func]

If the problems with War Room continue, I'd say they have more to worry about their relationship with their consumers. Releasing an app that costs more money and is less flexible than the existing free app for it's primary purpose and then delaying the app for two to three months while the alternative has already been withdrawn has many people I speak too feeling rather let down.

Thats true, they could have let iBodger continue until they are ready too release their own. iBodger is ugly and basic, but it works just fine.

[Laughing Man]

Every day this app isn't released, a kitten somewhere dies!!!

STOP KILLING KITTENS, PP!!!!!

But what else will I eat then? I need my protein, people!

[Bishop84]

What are the chances that PP underestimated the demand for this product?

About as good as the chances that Blizzard would underestimate the server load on Diablo 3 release day? Oh...right...

[Reuben]

Bar a theme force, Ibodger is still current folks. I don't know about you guys, but I'm still using it, and we keep using the painting log feature for a while yet.

[EtherealPaints]

This is yet another example of the doubling rules in software development. Estimate the time required to complete the project and then double it. That will generally give you a more accurate release date.

meaning... If they say on April 25th that the game has been moved to Mid May. What that really means is the game has been pushed back ~40 days.

So my guess on release is June 5th.

[WarpedWolf]

Unrelated question here: Where do I get the sig banners that say "I support X army," specifically the one in Bishop84's sig for Circle of Orboros?

[Navarp]

Well maybe they will just go "Surprise" tomorrow and release the app.

Here's hoping.

I think there is a "Privateer Insider" on every Friday . . .

At least hopefully it will be ABOUT war room if nothing else.

Also I imagine that PP is just as frustrated if not MORE frustrated about the lack of delivery. I feel bad for them, and know that there are some people at PP who are raging because this product isn't out yet as much if not more than we are.

[Sanguinary Dan]

Bar a theme force, Ibodger is still current folks. I don't know about you guys, but I'm still using it, and we keep using the painting log feature for a while yet.

It may be "current", but it's suddenly become very glitchy on my iPad and iPhone. When I try and delete a unit to make a change it will often turn the button dark red and then crash. Very frustrating.

[Navarp]

Sorry for the wall of text, but this post from the TinkerHouse games website does not leave me with good feelings about them as a company

Our plan was simple: We would use the promise of rev share to attract talented individuals we knew from the industry. They would each bring their “signature dish” to the table and we would make high-caliber games most startup studios could only dream of executing. The plan was flawless. There was no downside.

Except there was, of course…

Today’s Lesson: The potential cost of rev share. -or- There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch.

Before I begin, a word about the title for today’s entry. It’s occurred to me that potlucks are not quite as in vogue as they once were when I was a small boy growing up on an Amish homestead, so let me quickly explain.

A potluck is where a bunch of people get together and everyone brings a side dish to the occasion. In this way, everybody gets to have a nice meal much larger than anything they could prepare on their own, and all they had to do was fix one thing. It’s really quite lovely.

The same principle applies if you decide to develop a game using pure revenue sharing as the basis for compensation among the individual contributors. To be clear, I’m not talking about jobs in which revenue sharing is a portion of the overall paid compensation. That’s pretty common in the indie dev scene as a way to defray high production costs.

I’m talking about rev share as the only form of compensation, paid as a percentage of the overall revenue generated on the back end.

When we were first starting out, Lane and I thought this would be our primary model for developing games. As I once explained to a friend, (borrowing another metaphor) “We’re going to build games like bank heists. Pull together the crew, do the job, split the loot.” Add a dash of heroism and romance for good measure.

We assumed that we would be able to execute a game with a large crew for only the promise of a potential payout. Now I want to say, if you’re trying to get a game out the door and you don’t have a lot of money to spend, this is not necessarily a bad plan.

In the same way that a potluck is a big meal created for little cost in aggregate, a rev share model can provide a much bigger production with less sacrifice from the individual participants.

But here’s the rub. If a potluck is a meal pieced together, a rev share game is a project built in piecemeal. And that can sometimes pose significant problems.

Look at it this way, when you ask people to work entirely for free against the possibility of payment on the back end, there are really only four reasons they’ll say yes:

1. They’re your friends and wish you only the best in your new career, you lucky SOB.

2. The job allows them to accomplish some personal or professional goal along the way.

3. Dude, they really need the experience. Just give them a shot and you will totally not be sorry.

4. They believe the game will be a huge financial success.

Excepting point four, their motivations for creating the game won’t necessarily coincide perfectly with yours. In fact, their motivation may even lie outside of the financial success of the final product. And that means, in terms of your overall vision and creative direction, what you think will have the best chance of succeeding, you’ll only be able to push so far.
I mean, if a dude wants to make a robot game and is willing to work on it for free, but then you decide to ace the robots in favor of ninjas, you can imagine the effect this is going to have on his motivation to finish the project.
And even in the case of point four, your revenue sharing contractors may have some very strong opinions about what the final product should look like. After all, their entire compensation is wrapped up in its success; you can bet they’ll want a say in how it comes about.
Essentially, you’ve gone from a hierarchical model in which a singular vision is enforced by a project lead, to an egalitarian one in which the entire dev team are partners. And that might seem a beautiful thing in theory, but in practice it can lead to a total trainwreck.
Even one *mediocre* vision perfectly coordinated and executed is worth several brilliant, wildly divergent ideas.
Don’t get me wrong, I still believe there are great reasons to consider a pure rev share model for a project. Especially when you’re just starting out, you can get a game published with a greater diversity of resources and production value than would be possible with your normal team. It can really help you punch above your weight.

But just remember, when you ask talented professionals to work for free, you’ll probably have to give up a certain degree of creative control and ability to drive a tight production schedule. If you want that level of oversight, you’ll have to pay for it upfront.

So know what you’re getting into with rev share and manage your own expectations. Scope your job to make the best use of individual talents without relying too heavily on coordinated, cross-functional efforts and strict deadlines. Do that, and you can still find success and peace of mind along the way.

P.S. I was never raised on an Amish homestead. It just seemed like the cool thing to say.

[empireofdirt]

Sorry for the wall of text, but this post from the TinkerHouse games website does not leave me with good feelings about them as a company

Could you say more about why that is? The post seems pretty reasonable to me. I don't have any background in game development specifically, but I know what it's like to work on large projects that don't have a clear, unifying vision.

[bloodstrike]

I think the more important part about that blog post from Tinkerhouse Games is the date it was posted: November 30, 2011. They haven't posted anything to their site other than the generic War Room announcement since then.

[Navarp]

Could you say more about why that is? The post seems pretty reasonable to me. I don't have any background in game development specifically, but I know what it's like to work on large projects that don't have a clear, unifying vision.

It seems unprofessional to me. They are more or less saying that their business model means that the employees who are trying to help them are demanding creative input to the project. It also seems to imply that everyone is selfish (of the 4 reasons they gave 3 are self serving and 1 is because they are your friend) they don't even bother to consider that maybe the person is working because they actually like the project and want the project to succeed. Also they have this idea that the people will demand creative input.

The who thing just came off as an employer complaining about his employees while being a bit "woe is me" about their chosen business model.

Looking at this blog post like this would make me MUCH less likely to do work with a company as a contractor.

[BigHoot]

It's fairly unprofessional, but so is the business model of people working for free until there are sales. And while it might not really signal gloom for War Room, it's definitely not a good sign.

I'd love to get the poster, who I assume is some flavor of "executive" at the "company", in a room and interrogate him a bit about his ideas. If it were that easy to get people to work for free, don't you think someone else would have thought of it first? I know everybody wants to be the next boy genius of the software world, but why does that translate into trying every manner of wild scheme you can think of? More importantly, WHY DID YOU SCREW UP WAR ROOM?

[WraithWolf]

I'm just wondering about the twitter feed for TinkerHouse Games. They seem more concerned with the Diablo III release lately.

Ah well, War Room will hopefully release sometime soon. Or at least we will hear something from Privateer Press...either way, my curiosity will be sated.

[Blighted Tyrant]

Is that an iBodger re-launch I see on the horizon?

[AJ the Ronin]

They seem more concerned with the Diablo III release lately.

Yeah, saw that a few days ago. Didn't want to bring it up but it is, without doubt, disconcerting.

[PG_dbsmash]

If the problems with War Room continue, I'd say they have more to worry about their relationship with their consumers. Releasing an app that costs more money and is less flexible than the existing free app for it's primary purpose and then delaying the app for two to three months while the alternative has already been withdrawn has many people I speak too feeling rather let down.

yeah, I really wish iBodger would have continued updating until War Room was actually out as well. It still has most of the models, but is behind on tier lists. And knowing that it won't update again doesn't make me want to get more tied to it :P

[TheRupert]

War Room = Vaporware.