O Iron Lich Overseer where art thou?

[Rionnay]

Is it just me or can no-one else find one of these. I've been looking online to buy one since yesterday and they're no where to be found. The release date is set for Feb/22 (yesterday) yet. . . where are they?

While on the topic I've been trying to think of creative or just useful ways of running them. Any ideas? Thus far the jacks I've thought of running him with are:
-Slayer- Cheap, that's about it just cheap
-Seether- expensive, run/charge free, +1 focus already, boost an attack roll or damage roll from Jackmarshall
-Harrower- most expensive but charges and gives him stealth to get up the field which is nice. With thresher+overseer=souls

Are there any others I'm missing or just ideas anyone else has thought of?

[Sanctjud]

Who cares where they are?

Slayer is not cheap, making the whole package the cost of a Seether, Wrong Eye and Snapjaw, hell a Wraith Engine.
Seether relatively benefits less than other options you can take.
Harrower is a cool idea and only needs to get stuck in to get fueled up, which the ILO can provide, but 13 Damn points, like "I will not touch this" 13 points.

It's not so much just the rules...it's the meh model, and the price tag associated. It's better in unbound IMO, but I will unlikely play that, so one more reason to not get it, but that's just me.

I think you wanna look at the bone jacks with ILO as the more 'cheaper' options.

[Mathai]

With the Reaper is another good way. YOu can also throw in a Warwitch since the marshall focus isnt 'real' focus, and you end up with a boost to hit and a boost to damage, all without draining on the warcaster's reserves and all with stealth so the Reaper has some added survivability.

[Sanctjud]

The problem with a Stealthed Slayer Chassis is that it's not taking up a further (sometimes better) position.
The ILO is limited to a 6" advance going stealth, so (as bad as it economically sounds) a Crab Jack chassis seems more appropriate to maximize the Stealth benefit.

But then a Ravagore shot scatters 1" and he boosts damage and dies to Fire...great :-/
Don't tell me it's left up to random scatters, it will happen every time, like a magnet

[Skorpius47]

Seether relatively benefits less than other options you can take.

In what way does a free-charging, one Focus, melee-oriented Seether with Smash & Grab not benefit as much from a Jack Marshal Advantage and Stealth as other options? I'm genuinely curious because this is how I'd be running the Overseer. Aside from your worried SPD issue, I don't know how I wouldn't like a fully loaded Helljack for no Focus necessary.

[Mathai]

Well with a Seether, the problem I see happening is that once the ILO goes (And escorting a melee 'Jack puts it closer to danger) then you also lose ALL the focus. Since its an allocated focus point on the Seether, no commander = no focus.

The Slayer suffers from the same close combat dangers to the Overseer, but it also lacks in overal output. For 9 Points you have either Slayer + ILO on one side, or a Seether attached to your caster on the other. Both ways will have a free focus, but Seether also gets a free charge and a higher MAT.

[frozenwastes]

I could see taking one with a helldiver or two. Stalkers & Scavengers would be alright as well. Though extended control range would be lost on the stalker.

Miniature Market seems to have them in stock. The local store brings 2-3 of everything new in and this time none are left on the shelves.

[Sanctjud]

In what way does a free-charging, one Focus, melee-oriented Seether with Smash & Grab not benefit as much from a Jack Marshal Advantage and Stealth as other options? I'm genuinely curious because this is how I'd be running the Overseer. Aside from your worried SPD issue, I don't know how I wouldn't like a fully loaded Helljack for no Focus necessary.

Relatively is the key word Skorpius47...

Example: A slayer will get more out of the ILO than the Seether.
The slayer gets access to running/charging/boosting.
The Seether gets access to boosting.

That is what I meant, not what you are suggesting

[CyrDraconis]

Been doing some thinking on the ILO, and I'll agree, I can't think of many places I'd want to use the little quintesson. Did have one that I want to try, however...

Skarre1's NQ37 Ships in the Night. I know, I know, theme list.

Give him a Mariner. Stealth the 'jack, stand off and shoot - the Mariner's cannon is sufficiently accurate (especially standing still, given RNG15) and damaging that generally you'll want to boost either hit or damage. Hang out behind infantry unit of your choice; once things get stuck in, change from Stealth mode to Thresher mode. Either way, save the Marshal point for a damage boost on Dark Guidance turns.

One thing I can't remember, being away from my cards - is Soul Taker triggered on destroying Living Enemy or just Living?

[lolololage]

In what way does a free-charging, one Focus, melee-oriented Seether with Smash & Grab not benefit as much from a Jack Marshal Advantage and Stealth as other options? I'm genuinely curious because this is how I'd be running the Overseer. Aside from your worried SPD issue, I don't know how I wouldn't like a fully loaded Helljack for no Focus necessary.

I dont see why you would want to spend 12 points on that combo when you have access to the deathjack.

Thats the main issue i have with the ILO, the cost. If it was cheaper or we had access to a cheap ranged light jack that could utalise his skills properly, then i'd be interested.

[zyxx]

One thing I can't remember, being away from my cards - is Soul Taker triggered on destroying Living Enemy or just Living?

Soul taker is triggered on killing a living enemy model.. meaning the ILO need to be fairly close the the fighting or be casting Dark Fire, and lose out on stealth...

[Skorpius47]

I dont see why you would want to spend 12 points on that combo when you have access to the deathjack

More options.

[Vex]

More options.

I don't need more BAD options, thanks.

Really, I don't see any use for an ILO except, maybe, if you're playing unbound. At any reasonable point level, he is junk.

[tzeentchling9]

-Harrower- With thresher+overseer=souls

Won't the Harrower steal the souls for it's self, since it has soul taker and is(most likely) closer than the Overseer?

[Binz]

Why would the ILO be good with Helldivers? Surely the benefit of being able to allocate 3 focus to a Helldiver that has popped up in the back arc of the enemy caster/lock would outweigh any other benefits the ILO would give?

Its not like Helldivers care about Stealth, they are underground most of the game.

[ColdYinTiger]

Won't the Harrower steal the souls for it's self, since it has soul taker and is(most likely) closer than the Overseer?

Yup. It's sort of the same issues that Reclaimer/Testament have with fellow reclaimers.

[drachenfels]

Why would the ILO be good with Helldivers? Surely the benefit of being able to allocate 3 focus to a Helldiver that has popped up in the back arc of the enemy caster/lock would outweigh any other benefits the ILO would give?

Its not like Helldivers care about Stealth, they are underground most of the game.

not really i dont think... since the jack marshal effect doesn't allow it to make power attacks (like slams or throws) meaning you would still need a siren to power boost it after it pops up to perform the slam (but would then use the marshal boost to hit)
for 8 points i dont think that that would be worth it...

[Rionnay]

Good post, I wanted to ask before I bought one because I couldn't really find a nice niche for it to fit into. I think we can all agree if it was 2 points it would be worth it.

The only other time I can see wanting to us an ILO is MAYBE with terminus. Taking the jack of his hands but why wouldn't you just run erebus for 1 more point? (4jack points +3 ILO=7) I'm not convinced Privateer did us any favors with this model that's for sure.

I've been pondering it all day and simply can't find a place for him :-/ o well. Thanks for all the responses.

[frozenwastes]

I've never found Helldivers as particularly useful at getting back strikes against casters. Given that they can just advance and burrow and then pop up, my opponents have been wary and never gotten so close to the marker that I could have the little guys pop up behind them. I wish my opponents did stuff like that.

The only reason to keep helldivers with the ILO is that the lot of them form a pretty effective faux-solo group.

As for the mention of Warwitch Sirens, I keep reading things about how people use them as if they are dedicated to one task and one task alone. As if once per game that a Siren might use Powerbooster to enable a needed slam suddenly means that it is on dedicated helldiver duty.

I think the Desecrator with some Banes around would probably be a good choice for the ILO, but generally I like heavies with the Warcaster so that when they need to load up on focus and go, they can. Similarly, the bonejacks with arc nodes obviously belong with the caster. So that leaves the little guys without arc nodes.

I'm not convinced ILO + Slayer is better than just spending the points on a Seether and once you start going with the pricier jacks, you're into Deathjack territory. Once the Desecrator is out, Accumlator (Banes) will probably make it the logical choice.

[BigK42]

Yeah, miniature market has them, but who cares? Their rules are pretty bad :\

I'm not convinced that seethers are worth the points to begin with, so pairing them up with an overpriced JM sounds... just bad. The best value is going to come from getting two jacks on the overseer, but that's more points for the total package than I want to spend. I think the best jack to pair them with is a ripjaw, since their primary targets are hittable without boosting and they can run effectively on one psuedo-focus. Kind of kills the point of having them as arc nodes, which is part of the problem with the overseer to begin with.

[Cambrian]

In what way does a free-charging, one Focus, melee-oriented Seether with Smash & Grab not benefit as much from a Jack Marshal Advantage and Stealth as other options?

Because the other option is the Death Jack . There is just little reason to take an ILO.

[Skorpius47]

I don't need more BAD options, thanks.

Really, I don't see any use for an ILO except, maybe, if you're playing unbound. At any reasonable point level, he is junk.

How is he junk, exactly? Just saying "it's bad" doesn't make it bad.

because the other option is the Death Jack

Deathjack is not always an option, or even a great one. Venethrax, pSkarre, Goreshade, and Terminus are Casters with which I'd use Overseers.

[FederationX]

...Skarre1's NQ37 Ships in the Night. I know, I know, theme list.

Give him a Mariner. Stealth the 'jack, stand off and shoot - the Mariner's cannon is sufficiently accurate (especially standing still, given RNG15) and damaging that generally you'll want to boost either hit or damage. Hang out behind infantry unit of your choice; once things get stuck in, change from Stealth mode to Thresher mode. Either way, save the Marshal point for a damage boost on Dark Guidance turns...

You'd have to divert a living model from a unit to stand in B2B with the Mariner in order for it to fire its gun. I played around with this theme list for ~($@\ and giggles for a few weeks. I thought my points were better spent elsewhere.

[Indragnir]

Best jack for him is the Desecrator but you pay 12 pts for it (14 if you add a siren). In some rare builds can be used to run a fully loaded Desecrator without using caster focus. That's all.

[frozenwastes]

I do like the idea of having an ILO with pSkarre.

[Gamingdevil]

The only other time I can see wanting to us an ILO is MAYBE with terminus. Taking the jack of his hands but why wouldn't you just run erebus for 1 more point? (4jack points +3 ILO=7) I'm not convinced Privateer did us any favors with this model that's for sure.

But it doesn't work that way, you can only use WJ points on jacks in your battlegroup, so putting one under the ILO doesn't help.

[Rionnay]

But it doesn't work that way, you can only use WJ points on jacks in your battlegroup, so putting one under the ILO doesn't help.

hmmmm point taken, so I give up IMHO the ILO is a POS :-)

[Sanctjud]

Also, with Terminus, you can't have a Skarlock cast Ravager on a jack marshalled by ILO...less synergy there...

[Cambrian]

Deathjack is not always an option, or even a great one. Venethrax, pSkarre, Goreshade, and Terminus are Casters with which I'd use Overseers.

But it is a better option than 12 points for a seether with support staff, especially since you can not use the caster's WJ points. Character restrictions seem to be the only reason to take that package over the DJ.

Another reason not to take the ILO is we have access to Rorsh and Brine and/or Wrongeye and Snapjaw; both cheaper and similarly effective.

[slocu270]

Food for though:

What about a Merc Jack such as a Mule or Mariner?

A Mule would be a nice ranged piece: move up field, protect with stealth as needed, get aiming bonus + range bonus + focus from ILO and arc shots over your own forces.

[Darxyd]

I am seeing both sides of this related to either using the ILO as a power-stacking model or as an efficiency model. On the efficiency side, I like the idea of the Skarre NQ tier with ILO backing a Mariner. The Mariner already needs a model to hang close and load the thing, and the ILO can support it to lessen a chance for ranged retaliation.

[drachenfels]

What about a Merc Jack

can only marshal faction jacks.

need a merc to marshal merc jacks.

[CyrDraconis]

Food for though:

What about a Merc Jack such as a Mule or Mariner?

A Mule would be a nice ranged piece: move up field, protect with stealth as needed, get aiming bonus + range bonus + focus from ILO and arc shots over your own forces.

I'm planning on giving it a while with a Mariner in Ships int he Night; where are you getting a Mule?

I am seeing both sides of this related to either using the ILO as a power-stacking model or as an efficiency model. On the efficiency side, I like the idea of the Skarre NQ tier with ILO backing a Mariner. The Mariner already needs a model to hang close and load the thing, and the ILO can support it to lessen a chance for ranged retaliation.

Precisely. Hang ILO and his metal buddy out behind whatever tarpit you have going in, be it Revenants or Seadogs, and when the melee starts wade in to start threshering. Only then, I'd say, would you want to drop Stealth mode and start taking Dark Fire potshots from the ILO for souls.

can only marshal faction jacks.

need a merc to marshal merc jacks.

Skarre1 alternate theme list, NQ37 - Ships in the Night allows Mariners and Freebooters as faction 'jacks.

[drachenfels]

except that if i recall his cannon is only about as good as a revenant cannon... sure he can get 2 boosts out of it, but that is definitely allot more points for a single platform of shooting.
(and start discussion of survivability of ghostshot vs damage grid)

[BeardyDan]

I am seeing both sides of this related to either using the ILO as a power-stacking model or as an efficiency model. On the efficiency side, I like the idea of the Skarre NQ tier with ILO backing a Mariner. The Mariner already needs a model to hang close and load the thing, and the ILO can support it to lessen a chance for ranged retaliation.

Don't forget the mariner needs a living model to load.

[lululu_42]

I don't see very much usefulness out of the ILO. Yea for 3 points you get a jack marshel who can protect the back of a jack and give stealth to a jack but the problem with him is that he requires souls to really shine and if your close enough for the ILO to gather souls then he is to close to the combat.

His biggest competition in our army seems to be the Warwitch siren and not only is she a point cheaper but she is better all around IMO. I think the ILO is a pass. He's runnable but he's not going to shine very much.

[Decade]

Just picked mine up, and I'm willing to give him a try. I like running jacks, but unless I'm using Morty, I don't have any way to actually do so. And, honestly, until I've tried him out, and seen whether or not he's actually as awful as everyone thinks he is, I'm going to reserve judgement.

[Skorpius47]

he requires souls to really shine

There's your problem, thinking Soul collection and usage is a primary draw of anything at all. It's just a plus to what Overseer can bring to your table.

[CyrDraconis]

Don't forget the mariner needs a living model to load.

Sonnuva...

Well, tank the whole idea, then. Serves me right for not double checking.

[Skorpius47]

Sonnuva...

Well, tank the whole idea, then. Serves me right for not double checking.

!? Ships in the night is taking along so many living models. Why ditch the idea entirely? Marshaling a Jack and keeping a Sea Dog nearby isn't a bad idea. Hell, keep a Sea Dog Deck Gun near by and have two cannons shooting around.